Dead and Over-Expensive Items

[Luckcu13]

Leafy meat can be converted into eggs, can be eaten by Wigfrid, and respawns semi-frequently if you set up a lureplant right, so they have their uses.

Gotta disagree on time consumption concerning Butterflies. Butterflies is really about as much time investment as finding a berry bush and harvesting, if even less since Butterflies are just so plentiful and respawn so quickly. Definetely better than farm food in that regard, too. 

I mean, I think people should play the game the way they want, especially those who know how the game works. So if you love farms and love setting them up early game and playing with your mods, I'll accept that. But when it comes to giving advice to a new player looking for advice or providing feedback to something, one should always give out accurate and optimal information so the discussion or player can move forward in a positive way. Saying that farms are a good source of healing food or are useful in the early stages of the game is not accurate, as there are far better ways to heal or get food.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

3 hours ago, fimmatek said:

Tamed beefalos can be extremely useful in given situations and keeping them is also not a problem, if you manage to tame a beefalo, getting 4 nitres and 2 logs every 15 days cannot be difficult. The domesticating process is long and requires lots of resources of course, but for it you get a huge speed bonus or a built-in walking cane + dark sword + regenerating armour. (Not to mention that you can gain a lot of sanity if you wear the bee queen hat, without risking to lose its durability.) I think it definitely worth it. 

 

What negative and finite aspects of a tamed beefalo? That you need one salt lick every season, with which your beefalo stays with you forever? Changing it to its advantage would be way too overpowered. What would you want, stronger hits, more hp, no maintenance? It's already a practically infinite dark sword.

Honestly, I think beefalo taming is good as it is. 

 

Let me tell you what the real problems with beefalo taming is...

One is you can't exit the game with them and second is other players being able to erase all of your progress from attacking it a few times. On a public server, if you were to tame one, you can say bye bye to it either when a noob, troll comes around, if you or someone else accidentally attacks it or lets it step on a tooth trap while not mounted or whenever you exit the game.

They are excellent for private servers. Public is a completely different thing, especially if they have little to no maintenance. If you wanted a public server that's got no vote-regenning and is endless or wilderness, to have your beefalo stay tamed the next time you come back, you might want to select a spot for placing down 100 salt licks if you plan to play the game again after a few weeks and not tomorrow, and all for just one beefalo of yours. Will take forever, will take up lots of space and who knows, some dimwit might make it all go to poof while you're away.

So, for the taming to actually be "fine as it is", it really needs this, or something along the lines:

1) you can exit while mounted on a beefalo.

2) taming is local in certain aspects.

3) salt licks have more durab (being able to exit might make it not matter as much, though with multiple beefalos present, to save space it might be a good idea. 45 - 60 or so days of licking for one beefalo should be fine if the former i in the game, I think).

4) hitting a beefalo doesn't reduce domestication anywhere near as much (the second being in place might not make this matter as much, though what if you accidentally hit one? You'll lose 6 whole days stupidly! Them being a bit more forgiving if you hut them one or twice (so only attacking after the third time if domesticated or whatnot) could be good too).

5) fully domesticated beefalos cannot die from or trigger tooth traps or bee mines even if not mounted.

Wormholes can be traveled through with them via beefalo horn, and although jumping right through might be better, it's not as vital as the above. Caves, honestly can do without them. Besides, a beefalo in caves? Naaaaah

[CarlZalph]

You folks are forgetting the power of a farm plot!

Where else in the end of the world are you going to get a Twinkie powdercake?

[fimmatek]

9 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

They are excellent for private servers. Public is a completely different thing, especially if they have little to no maintenance.

[...]

So, for the taming to actually be "fine as it is", it really needs this, or something along the lines:

[...]

Yes, it's a sad thing but beefalo taming is only worth it in private/reliable servers. I fully agree with your modification suggestions, especially with the "exit while mounted" one. With that one could have a beefalo even in public (an of course long lasting) servers without having to worry.

When I said taming is good as it is, I meant the process itself, so I don't think it needs to be more difficult/easy/time-or-resource-consuming, so the gameplay could stay mainly as it is. But your ideas would be really useful.

[Deadbyte]

This thread has a point. I agree on some of the things mentioned.

[Rellimarual]

Does anyone makes frequent, or any, use of the bat bat? I'm just curious to read about why if so.

[Destros09]

Why make a kabob when you can eat the food cooked for more hunger

[Destros09]

3 minutes ago, Rellimarual said:

Does anyone makes frequent, or any, use of the bat bat? I'm just curious to read about why if so.

Remove the purple gem from the recipe, give it 120 uses, make it so the health leech scales with damage modifiers (wigfred, Wolfgang, Wendy, Wes) 

[CutChemist]

51 minutes ago, Rellimarual said:

Does anyone makes frequent, or any, use of the bat bat? I'm just curious to read about why if so.

Yes I do as a Maxwell player, also going down to the bat biome in caves provides plenty of wings for me to craft more bat bats

[Rellimarual]

41 minutes ago, Destros09 said:

Remove the purple gem from the recipe, give it 120 uses, make it so the health leech scales with damage modifiers (wigfred, Wolfgang, Wendy, Wes) 

That doesn't really answer my question. Most posts here complaining about the uselessness of this or that feature of the game typically reflect the mistaken assumption that everyone plays like the poster. It's always interesting to get the perspective of players who have found uses for existing items that haven't occurred to me. If anyone makes regular or even occasional use of the bat bat, I would love to hear why and how.

Conversely, endless and pointless discussion of how random players would tinker with various items if they were the devs  is very tedious to me. I get that it's a type of chit chat that some people really enjoy, like talking about how they'd coach a professional athlete differently from the person who actually coaches him, but it DOES make my eyes glaze over!

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

4 hours ago, Rellimarual said:

Does anyone makes frequent, or any, use of the bat bat? I'm just curious to read about why if so.

I used to try as Wigfrid, but then realized that its recipe made it highly inefficient. I have to use x2 the amount of living logs, for 25% less uses and deal less damage (as the dark sword), just so I can leech some hp. Unless I'm in caves and get a bunch of bat wings one time, which is pretty tough and time consuming in and of itself, then chop down a bunch of trees in hopes of some tree guards for the living logs as well as waste away a whole bunch of red and blue gems, this is... I really don't know, how can anyone bear to go through that for an item that's not even that good for what it gives. Rather if the recipe required 3 bat wings, 2 bone shards and a rope and Prestihatitator instead of Shadow Manipulator to craft. Will probably have a consuming use for the bone shards then and the recipe will make a bit more sense as well as be a bit more reasonable for the item's overall durability. The 75 durability for this wouldn't make it too bad, and I mean, it's the only item that has that durability, so why not leave it at this for the sake of uniqueness?

3 hours ago, CutChemist said:

Yes I do as a Maxwell player, also going down to the bat biome in caves provides plenty of wings for me to craft more bat bats

I can only guess that it's a bit of a drag doing all the bat farming. The chances of getting one wing are low, let alone five, let alone 20, or however many you aim for in one round of bat ass-kicking.

[Renegade_Doll]

The slew of users advocating that items having singular, niche uses which almost never make it into public servers but instead only practiced by experienced players who only do it once every age, is predictable. Because any time you attempt to ask for balance changes, a massive wave of random people show up screaming about how useful all these things are. Even though they are never used normally because they are not useful, but the entire human species seems to need to resist. And so if they can find one pointless use for something, that is a valid argument to it not being rebalanced to have use all of the time.

 

Because. Instead of the Piggyback being rebalanced to be a part of a tiered system that enhances the depth of the game and gives players more to work with and work for. It should be left as it is, with it barely being used; except by a few nameless players. No particular reason for this, just do not change it because you are chemically geared towards resisting change. Better change.

But then again, the problem of backpacks being so-to-speak meta is mostly brushed off as well. Paltry attempts to claim the backpack is not so great, amusing. At this point it should be quite evident as it is that fixing games is futile, because again, there are blatant examples here of users advocating for something to not be changed because it can serve a purpose one one hundredth of the time; instead of it being balanced to be useful without leaping through hoops. Literally resisting change for the sake of it.

 

This exact scenario occurs everytime we try to suggest changes, every single time in any environment or community.

Do not fix the stopped clock, it is still right twice a day, keep it that way instead of fixing it. So long as it is still right some of the time, that justifies not going through the terrifying process of change in order to improve things.

[CutChemist]

7 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

I can only guess that it's a bit of a drag doing all the bat farming. The chances of getting one wing are low, let alone five, let alone 20, or however many you aim for in one round of bat ass-kicking.

It's not too bad, I have 2 fairly large bat biomes in my caves, I can get 12-15 wings, plus I only use it for bosses I know I'm gonna take damage from

[CaptainChaotica]

(rolls eyes)  "TERRIFYING" process of change?  "Chemically geared" to resist change.

F***.  This started out fairly civil, but now you're doing THIS?  Hell, I'm already inclined to stand up for little-used things or looked-down-on styles of gameplay, but THIS makes me wanna stand up and march for things even _I_ don't actually use!  RALLY FOR NIGHT-LIGHTS!  WHO'S WITH ME?!

But seriously...if you want to have people actually _listen_ to your opinions, DON'T.  INSULT.  THEM.  The second you do, you instantly lose _so_ many possible converts!  Honey rather than vinegar and all that.  Instead of calling us all a bunch of stupid little terrified backwards slugabouts, how 'bout you actually SUGGEST some specific "terrifying changes" you'd like made?  And not "get rid of", clear up the list, make it neater.  I mean CHANGES, as in, taking the "useless" things _and making them useful_.  Even to you.

Also, I for one LOVE having variety around in the game, it makes it more colourful and interesting, and in the right challenge modes you can find a use for _anything_.  I myself have been doing a challenge for the last 4 in-game years and it's made me use things I normally wouldn't even think of because they were the only allowed substitute for something the rules forbid.  Or, maybe some people just think differently and go around using bee-mines _all the time_ and it would never even OCCUR to them they were being "weird" or "sub-optimal" until they came here!

To sum up:  Just because YOU don't use it don't necessarily mean _nobody_ wants to.

...Notorious

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

5 hours ago, CutChemist said:

It's not too bad, I have 2 fairly large bat biomes in my caves, I can get 12-15 wings, plus I only use it for bosses I know I'm gonna take damage from

So, not too frequent then. By frequent, it would have to be you using the weapon for most of the time, like I for instance use Dark Swords for my main weapon.

4 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

(rolls eyes)  "TERRIFYING" process of change?  "Chemically geared" to resist change.

F***.  This started out fairly civil, but now you're doing THIS?  Hell, I'm already inclined to stand up for little-used things or looked-down-on styles of gameplay, but THIS makes me wanna stand up and march for things even _I_ don't actually use!  RALLY FOR NIGHT-LIGHTS!  WHO'S WITH ME?!

But seriously...if you want to have people actually _listen_ to your opinions, DON'T.  INSULT.  THEM.  The second you do, you instantly lose _so_ many possible converts!  Honey rather than vinegar and all that.  Instead of calling us all a bunch of stupid little terrified backwards slugabouts, how 'bout you actually SUGGEST some specific "terrifying changes" you'd like made?  And not "get rid of", clear up the list, make it neater.  I mean CHANGES, as in, taking the "useless" things _and making them useful_.  Even to you.

Also, I for one LOVE having variety around in the game, it makes it more colourful and interesting, and in the right challenge modes you can find a use for _anything_.  I myself have been doing a challenge for the last 4 in-game years and it's made me use things I normally wouldn't even think of because they were the only allowed substitute for something the rules forbid.  Or, maybe some people just think differently and go around using bee-mines _all the time_ and it would never even OCCUR to them they were being "weird" or "sub-optimal" until they came here!

To sum up:  Just because YOU don't use it don't necessarily mean _nobody_ wants to.

...Notorious

[removed]

Seriously, calm down! You're missing the point anyway... Although, it's probably pointless to respond to you since you've probably blocked me anyway.

Renegade_Doll's point is that there are items that are way superior, DIMINISHING the benefit of different playstyles. Sure, players could play with certain items in some way, although there are a lot that you will hit a eall with in terms of reliability or will just struggle to use them pointlessly when there's plenty other things that are superior and that makes you come back to playing like everyone else.

I've recently have tried to stick to a different gameplay style late-game, where I don't even carry essential resources, have chester with me for storagr, use thulecite crowns and night armour for protection as well as magiluminessence that I run around with (subsequently making nightmare fuel an essential resource for myself), although this play style is only viable for one person at a time.

Despite this being more fun to play with and being fairly reliable in my scenario, using backpacks and whatnot is still a superior method, largely because it's easily available for every player and provides a powerful gameplay method as opposed to that being available to just one player on a single server.

[Tumalu]

There's kind of a difference between "I think this item does have some degree of use" and "I DON'T THINK THIS ITEM SHOULD BE CHANGED"...

Having a reason it's not awful doesn't mean they're -against- it being buffed. o.o I mean I don't think the bat bat is useless but if the devs made it better, cool beans.

Birchguards are a pretty good way to get lots of nightmare logs in autumn/spring after day 36, by the way. (Chance is decent starting d21, doubles at d36, very low in summer and nonexistent in winter)

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

2 hours ago, Tumalu said:

There's kind of a difference between "I think this item does have some degree of use" and "I DON'T THINK THIS ITEM SHOULD BE CHANGED"...

Having a reason it's not awful doesn't mean they're -against- it being buffed.

Well, I mean...

5 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

(rolls eyes)  "TERRIFYING" process of change?  "Chemically geared" to resist change.

F***.  This started out fairly civil, but now you're doing THIS?  Hell, I'm already inclined to stand up for little-used things or looked-down-on styles of gameplay, but THIS makes me wanna stand up and march for things even _I_ don't actually use!  RALLY FOR NIGHT-LIGHTS!  WHO'S WITH ME?!

But seriously...if you want to have people actually _listen_ to your opinions, DON'T.  INSULT.  THEM.  The second you do, you instantly lose _so_ many possible converts!  Honey rather than vinegar and all that.  Instead of calling us all a bunch of stupid little terrified backwards slugabouts, how 'bout you actually SUGGEST some specific "terrifying changes" you'd like made?  And not "get rid of", clear up the list, make it neater.  I mean CHANGES, as in, taking the "useless" things _and making them useful_.  Even to you.

Also, I for one LOVE having variety around in the game, it makes it more colourful and interesting, and in the right challenge modes you can find a use for _anything_.  I myself have been doing a challenge for the last 4 in-game years and it's made me use things I normally wouldn't even think of because they were the only allowed substitute for something the rules forbid.  Or, maybe some people just think differently and go around using bee-mines _all the time_ and it would never even OCCUR to them they were being "weird" or "sub-optimal" until they came here!

To sum up:  Just because YOU don't use it don't necessarily mean _nobody_ wants to.

...Notorious

Unless you were talking about something else, I am very unsure here.

Also, Chaotica seems to have reavted as if the whole wall of text by Renegade was aimed at her, when it seemed quite obvious that he/she was talking in general.

Bottom line is, items that are infrequently used or not used at all could do with a change to make them something more desirable. Desirability is the key here and not just what you think. Ask yourself how much you've seen other players use certain items or how much do you yourself use certain items and how reliable have you found them to be and so forth. How far does the use(s) of these items actually reach?

[CutChemist]

Why are people typing long paragraphs about pixel usage :4head:

[HamBatter]

On 3/6/2017 at 4:28 AM, Renegade_Doll said:

Some examples would be the Piggyback. If the developers increased its resource requirement, and removed its negative effects, it could be a legitimate second tier backpack players who save up or survive long enough can get. Instead, never really used. Why be slower, that means every trip will be longer.

Honestly backpacks in general should be nerfed. They pretty much defeat the existence of torso items in general, can just use a thermal stone to substitute for warm or cool tops. Can just swap back and forth between the backpack and torso armor. Unless the developers intended for backpacks to be the base, always present lifeblood of the player; it really should not dominate the scene as much as it does over everything else. Again, less variety in how people play the game because of this.

So do you want backpacks to be nerfed, or do you want to make extra space more accessible with minimal downside?

The reason why backpacks are valued is that you have loads of crafting components and unstackable tools to work with. This may be part of why Thermal Stones were given the durability nerf, to give more incentive to use other torso items in addition to having that uncertain jump from Backpack and Krampus Sack.

[JohnWatson]

Backpacks are not an essential item. You don't need a backpack all the time if you know basic inventory management and planning ahead.

[Donke60]

14 hours ago, HamBatter said:

This may be part of why Thermal Stones were given the durability nerf, to give more incentive to use other torso items in addition to having that uncertain jump from Backpack and Krampus Sack.

Thermal stones were given durabily because they are more powerful in DST then in DS
by being warmer and providing the small light but the higher heat is the main reason.