Fix heat deletion exploits

[Lurve]

It's also very late game.  Gradually breeding wheezeworts the way we do crop seeds could scale early cooling enough to replace the mid-game sieve. 

[scaldinghotcarl]

On 12/1/2018 at 5:13 PM, impyre said:

I wonder how many of them use the tepidizer for purification... and I also wonder how many of them heat it before filtering or after.

Can you do anything with the tepidizer? I've tried it several times, and it tells me that it hits it's max temp and stops around 83 deg C.

 

How does one get it to boil pwater to get back the dirt?

[Lurve]

By building an aquatuner instead.  It's a tepidizer, not a boilinizer.

[impyre]

3 hours ago, scaldinghotcarl said:

Can you do anything with the tepidizer? I've tried it several times, and it tells me that it hits it's max temp and stops around 83 deg C.

 

How does one get it to boil pwater to get back the dirt?

No boiling necessary. I use a constant-flow setup:

1. pwater is preheated by being used to keep power generators cool
2. pwater is collected in a reservoir array, then fed into the heating system
3. the heating system contains both an aquatuner and a tepidizer
   1. both are fed from the same 2kw circuit
   2. logic uses a thermo sensor, it cuts on the tepidizer if the pwater gets too cool (below 81C); otherwise, the aquatuner provides all heat
4. as the pwater passes through the channel germs are killed
5. liquid pump is set to only pull out over-fill, so a minimum fill level is maintained
6. the output from the pump (~83C) is sieved (this is where the pdirt comes out)
7. sieve output (40C) is passed through the aquatuner (now 26C)

The better the pwater is preheated, the less the tepidizer is actually used. You know the system is saturated when the tepidizer is running 100%, and it will get backed up since the sieve output has nowhere to go. You can solve this by running separate power, but I haven't found this to be even remotely necessary.

Spoiler

The one I'm currently using can produce 5kg/s, though I imagine it wouldn't be hard to make it 10kg/s by using two sieves. Right now, on average, I only use about 75% of the daily capacity for this processor (at the 5kg/s rate).

[Sasza22]

7 hours ago, scaldinghotcarl said:

Can you do anything with the tepidizer?

You can heat water to 75^oC to kill off food poisoning. I imagine a lot of new players try that (i did it myself). I could imagine using it in a gulp fish farm to keep the water from freezing.

It`s not usable to boil water though.

[mr peeps]

On 12/2/2018 at 6:56 PM, Yunru said:

You mean that of the obviously biased sample, 40% still think it's fine?

That says something.

*ahem* How is my data "biased? Sure, I want it changed but I just asked what others thought. Thats not biased, thats a poll saying what people want

[Xuhybrid]

4 hours ago, mr peeps said:

*ahem* How is my data "biased? Sure, I want it changed but I just asked what others thought. Thats not biased, thats a poll saying what people want

Well bias aside, there's only 40 votes on the poll. Hardly definitive proof.

[mr peeps]

3 hours ago, Xuhybrid said:

Well bias aside, there's only 40 votes on the poll. Hardly definitive proof.

Sure, but its better than nothing

[impyre]

9 hours ago, mr peeps said:

*ahem* How is my data "biased? Sure, I want it changed but I just asked what others thought. Thats not biased, thats a poll saying what people want

The bias is inherent in the nature of voluntary responses. Those that feel more strongly about the subject are more likely to respond. As with most things, people often feel more strongly about things they think are "wrong", "unfair", or "need to be fixed"...

Furthermore, the use of loaded questions and loaded language not only indicates a bias on the part of the poster/researcher... but also invites that bias in the participants. It's clearly a sham... and even comparing it to a "sample" is egregious. The post title clearly indicates that the author believes the current mechanic to be broken (else why would it need to be "fix"ed): "Should Klei fix the constant water output temperature... thing?" 

Edit: Sorry if anyone's toes ended up under this post, it wasn't meant to be offensive.

[mr peeps]

2 hours ago, impyre said:

The bias is inherent in the nature of voluntary responses. Those that feel more strongly about the subject are more likely to respond. As with most things, people often feel more strongly about things they think are "wrong", "unfair", or "need to be fixed"...

Furthermore, the use of loaded questions and loaded language not only indicates a bias on the part of the poster/researcher... but also invites that bias in the participants. It's clearly a sham... and even comparing it to a "sample" is egregious. The post title clearly indicates that the author believes the current mechanic to be broken (else why would it need to be "fix"ed): "Should Klei fix the constant water output temperature... thing?" 

Edit: Sorry if anyone's toes ended up under this post, it wasn't meant to be offensive.

I see your point, and yes, I will admit im a little bit biased, as I too am one that wants it fixed. But, I dont see how my wording would change the outcome. If someone believes, either way, they would choose their side. 

[impyre]

4 hours ago, mr peeps said:

I see your point, and yes, I will admit im a little bit biased, as I too am one that wants it fixed. But, I dont see how my wording would change the outcome. If someone believes, either way, they would choose their side. 

I don't really think this is the place to discuss the details of how sociological forces influence the internal decision-making processes of individuals because I don't want to hijack the thread; however, it is a topic I would love to discuss at length otherwise lol.

[Chained Phoenix]

I had heat issues early on for my first play through (only started a couple months ago after the space expansion) and the solution was to use up all the coolness in the ice biomes until I had better solutions like venting the heat into space via gases I didn't want.  Now most of my base is below 10 degrees so if anything is too cold   I actually have to remove the wheezeworts a couple times to warm the place up.  I highly recommend using an ice biome for all your oxygen generation (using the method of filling a bunch of containers with polluted water, destroying them giving you super concentrated polluted water tubs which will hence produce an insane amount of polluted oxygen, and having a room above this with mass deoderizers which will give you unlimited clean and cold oxygen).  You can even adjust the temperature of this room with more wheezeworts or pumping in cooler polluted water to start with and if anything your base will end up being too cold, even with a couple steam generators right next to you

[Yunru]

On 08/12/2018 at 2:05 AM, mr peeps said:

I see your point, and yes, I will admit im a little bit biased, as I too am one that wants it fixed. But, I dont see how my wording would change the outcome. If someone believes, either way, they would choose their side. 

Because the majority would choose the other way by simply not looking at the thread.

The wording limits the audience the thread receives.

[The Plum Gate]

Also my two cents..

I think there are some machines that deserve a fixed delta between input and output - like the carbon skimmer and water sieve. And possibly the algae distiller...maybe all of them do to a certain degree. Allow me to explain. I didn't read all of the comments here - too many people suggesting the use of equipment to fix equipment with fixed outputs. 

It isn't too much to ask for there to be a fixed delta and an additional correlation between the fixed delta positive or negative and the machine itself as well the surroundings. This is mostly in place.

The reason fixed output thermals are what they happen to be is to apply an easy fix for situations where a process, such as refining petroleum, has to happen at certain temperatures. So there's a logical explanation for some things and not others. I imagine having to heat a machine for it to work would add extra levels of complexity to the player experience... In the meantime. Fixed output thermals make automation simpler. Piping more predictable, etc. I'm not in favour of it personally. The machine doesn't tell me it has a fixed output temperature - I assume because they plan to change this in the future. 

I savor the idea of thermal deltas - I consider the water seive and the carbon skimmer a partial boiler process happening at or above certain temperatures.

It would be nice to get this done at a reduced electrical load if the input water temperature is greater than the processing requirement - and simply pass the fluids through in processed form either as input temperature + machine temperature interaction or as input temperature + process delta + machine temperature. 

The whole thing could be polished off with variable demand electrical loading while characterizing the loads as min/max in details, and max load rating at the electrical plug. It would simply change electrical load according to circumstances. Lower electrical demand in otherwords.

[Guest]

The idea of spending time changing fixed temp output buildings seems like a waste to me when the game does not even accurately track material temperatures. Oh, my dupe just built the metal tiles in my base from 1000C gold, but that's no problem since the new tiles are only 45C. If you advocate for changing fixed temp output buildings, then you should also advocate removing clamping the temp of new buildings between 15-45C. However, removing the clamp on new buildings will create a whole new hell for players since we cannot control materials based on their temperatures.

[The Plum Gate]

8 hours ago, nonoxyl said:

The idea of spending time changing fixed temp output buildings seems like a waste to me when the game does not even accurately track material temperatures. Oh, my dupe just built the metal tiles in my base from 1000C gold, but that's no problem since the new tiles are only 45C. If you advocate for changing fixed temp output buildings, then you should also advocate removing clamping the temp of new buildings between 15-45C. However, removing the clamp on new buildings will create a whole new hell for players since we cannot control materials based on their temperatures.

I have not noticed this behaviour at all - in fact, I get quite the opposite behaviour - it's a color vomit issue with quite a bit of my insulated tiles upon installation. Maybe this is just an issue with metal tiles? - I haven't built any. Might also be a No-Sweat thing? Got any mods running?

[scaldinghotcarl]

I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't use any sieves to delete heat. Clearly you can have a successful colony without using this feature.

[Sasza22]

6 hours ago, scaldinghotcarl said:

I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't use any sieves to delete heat. Clearly you can have a successful colony without using this feature.

Sometimes i wish the temperature wasn`t fixed just so i can sieve cold water without having to cool it afterwards.

[SharraShimada]

You cant cool down high temps by a AETN or Worts. Above a certain temp, they plants will die, and the AETN will get damaged. 

And we are not talking about 1000°C or such insane temps, its an issue at 100°C +

[Xuhybrid]

5 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

Sometimes i wish the temperature wasn`t fixed just so i can sieve cold water without having to cool it afterwards.

I agree. The sieve shouldn't affect the temperature at all.

[Yunru]

10 hours ago, SharraShimada said:

You cant cool down high temps by a AETN or Worts. Above a certain temp, they plants will die, and the AETN will get damaged. 

And we are not talking about 1000°C or such insane temps, its an issue at 100°C +

Sure you can. You just make sure they never directly interact with the hot material.

[SharraShimada]

1 hour ago, Yunru said:

Sure you can. You just make sure they never directly interact with the hot material.

Yeah sure. How do you cool a chamber of 500°C hot liquid? I assume you use radiant pipes, with cooling in it. And within a few seconds, your coolant is also several 100°C hot, and flows via AETN and/or worts. Now you heat them up, and they break/die. Good job.

Its a pain in the a** to micromanage the coolant, so it never reaches killing temperature.

[Yunru]

3 minutes ago, SharraShimada said:

Yeah sure. How do you cool a chamber of 500°C hot liquid? I assume you use radiant pipes, with cooling in it. And within a few seconds, your coolant is also several 100°C hot, and flows via AETN and/or worts. Now you heat them up, and they break/die. Good job.

Its a pain in the a** to micromanage the coolant, so it never reaches killing temperature.

Simple, you don't let you coolant get that hot.

As long as your wheezeworts produce more cooling than your heat source does heat, it all works out fine.

 

How do you think people cool volcanoes with Wheezeworts?

[scaldinghotcarl]

On 2/8/2019 at 5:13 PM, Sasza22 said:

Sometimes i wish the temperature wasn`t fixed just so i can sieve cold water without having to cool it afterwards.

You tend to use warm polluted water and cold clean water. This offers neither of them. If I ever see a poll like that again I would vote that input and output are the same.

[anton_stezhkin]

On 11/30/2018 at 6:04 PM, Neotuck said:

steam turbines seems to be the best way of removing excess heat once you get advanced materials from space industry 

Steel and PH2O is enough to do the trick!

"How do you cool a chamber of 500°C hot liquid?"

1. build a room with metallic ceiling and floor over it.
2. build a turbine over the room from p1. 300kg of water + 150kg of hydrogen in the turbine room. Don't forget to build a liquid cooler int the turbine room.
3. fill room from p1 with water and dreco poop.
4. wait.
5. when temperature drops below 300C - pump the supercoolant into the pipes. The SC cools the room, the turbine cools the cooler.