For Those Who Say Hamlet Is Too Easy

[SpoonyBardIV]

I keep constantly seeing posts criticizing Hamlet (mostly the seasons) for being too easy. But just think of it this way; In RoG and SW, there is a common trend. That trend goes as follows: you get one easy season to relax and prepare for the hard season that comes next. So therefore autumn is used to prepare for winter, monsoon to prepare for dry, and so on. With Hamlet, however, there is a major difference. Instead of an easy-hard-easy-hard scenario from the past 2 DLCs, we get 3 easy (ish) seasons, but we must prepare WELL IN ADVANCE for the following:

Endless Night

Frequent Full Moons (Where normally neutral mobs become hostile)

Evolved Mants (In Swarms)

Daily Bat Waves

Shadow Creatures (Regardless of sanity level)

Ancient Herald

So what we have here is 3 whole seasons to heavily prepare for a Hell-On-Earth type season that will quickly and brutally kill underprepared players. This is why I think the game is just as balanced as RoG, but in a different way.

[Steefy_92]

The reason why Hamlet can be easy, is when you exploit stealing items. It's not just that you can steal materials and food and get away with minimal consequence but you can also steal whatever you want from stores, including rare items, if you know exploit.

And honestly by doing that you can get through everything very easy. If you stick to not stealing and play the game as it's not possible ... well it definitely ups the challenge by a lot and you realise the difficulty of Hamlet.

So, stealing really needs to be tweaked and dressed because too many players just give to temptation to steal and honestly why not?

[Avarwen]

There should be a points system with the pigs if you rarely steal ( only when you really need it) you won't really be affected too much but if you always steal or steal major things your points will get lower and lower till it hits a certain threshold and the pigs become hostile towards you they won't let you near the town or do trades with you if you were really bad about it they would hunt you down like the Walruses in ROG. To regain their trust you'd have to go on various missions for them or do tasks around the town later on.

[Naruchii]

Here I am don't even know how to steal or have any desire to find out after I read
 

1 hour ago, Steefy_92 said:

The reason why Hamlet can be easy, is when you exploit stealing items. It's not just that you can steal materials and food and get away with minimal consequence but you can also steal whatever you want from stores, including rare items, if you know exploit.

 

I like Hamlet very much and agree to the author of this thread that Klei has brought out a new refreshing pattern that I can surely enjoy..

[Steefy_92]

This would be great but adds another layer of complexity to the game and people who are so used to .. well cheat, will complain as there is no tomorrow. One thing I learned over the years is that people hate change so much, once they get used to something, even if it's wrong, they will stick to it and refuse profoundly to accept new approach - until resistance dies or they give up and move on to something else.

 

And this system in place can have a drawback, it happened to me to accidentally steal something. Basically, I press space bar and.. with this system you described in place, it would be almost impossible to progress in game at early stages, or what happens if you have a house. And store everything inside, by that time resources outside of city are not as plentiful as they were (this would be somewhere around middle stage), you stashed this and that there ... And all of sudden you have to fight for survival and do missions to recover reputation.

I believe a lighter version of your idea would be nice, but let's see how they plan to address the exploit (this exploit reminds me of original DS, when you could never run out of food because rabbits were so dump you just needed a spear, the game was also in EA)

Edit: Actually when I think about it more so, it's neat. It gives you an option to take great risk for little gain.

 

10 minutes ago, Naruchii said:

Here I am don't even know how to steal or have any desire to find out after I read

Same here, though it's not rocket science to be honest. However, it is an exploit that should be addressed, nevertheless. Than we are going to get from those people ("game is too hard" and etc) or from most of them anyways.

[Yokoblue]

3 hours ago, SpoonyBardIV said:

I keep constantly seeing posts criticizing Hamlet (mostly the seasons) for being too easy. But just think of it this way; In RoG and SW, there is a common trend. That trend goes as follows: you get one easy season to relax and prepare for the hard season that comes next. So therefore autumn is used to prepare for winter, monsoon to prepare for dry, and so on. With Hamlet, however, there is a major difference. Instead of an easy-hard-easy-hard scenario from the past 2 DLCs, we get 3 easy (ish) seasons, but we must prepare WELL IN ADVANCE for the following:

Endless Night

Frequent Full Moons (Where normally neutral mobs become hostile)

Evolved Mants (In Swarms)

Daily Bat Waves

Shadow Creatures (Regardless of sanity level)

Ancient Herald

So what we have here is 3 whole seasons to heavily prepare for a Hell-On-Earth type season that will quickly and brutally kill underprepared players. This is why I think the game is just as balanced as RoG, but in a different way.

Your whole argument is that the last season will be very hard. But you are just saying that randomly... We have almost no information on the last season and its pure speculation. Endless night ? Speculation, Evolved mants ... if they don't go out it doesn't matter you can just not go. Daily bat waves... Where was that confirmed ? Also, daily could mean 2 bats everyday... and thats nothing.

 

Also, you use shipwreck as an example, yes shipwreck seemed harder at first, but once you gain knowledge of what can kill you and how to prepare... It became A LOT easier than ROG. I think the game is leaning on the too easy but it's always been like that with most betas and early access of the series, once everything get added it becomes a bit harder (and once they fix exploits)

[Wyulliam]

1 hour ago, Yokoblue said:

Your whole argument is that the last season will be very hard. But you are just saying that randomly... We have almost no information on the last season and its pure speculation. Endless night ? Speculation, Evolved mants ... if they don't go out it doesn't matter you can just not go. Daily bat waves... Where was that confirmed ? Also, daily could mean 2 bats everyday... and thats nothing.

 

Also, you use shipwreck as an example, yes shipwreck seemed harder at first, but once you gain knowledge of what can kill you and how to prepare... It became A LOT easier than ROG. I think the game is leaning on the too easy but it's always been like that with most betas and early access of the series, once everything get added it becomes a bit harder (and once they fix 

But you do realize that the game has no tutorial/instructions itself, right? So of course, once you learn how to play the game, it becomes easier, like any other games.

[Yokoblue]

45 minutes ago, Wyulliam said:

But you do realize that the game has no tutorial/instructions itself, right? So of course, once you learn how to play the game, it becomes easier, like any other games.

Don't starve is 50% about knowledge and 50% execution. If you remove the execution part, it becomes boringly easy. Stuff need to push you out to explore or you need to be pushed out in other ways. See the design philisophy of ROG: Winter force you out to gather items because nothing grow back and also spawn winter specific stuff, summer is the same with harsher condition but softer "changes" to the world.

 

The problem with hamlet difficulty is that 80%(hypothetical number.. i didn't count) of the resources can be acquired with Oinc. If oinc is easy to acquire (which it is) it can solve most of your problems.... Solution to that would be make it harder (which we don't want because that's kinda the whole hamlet theme) or push for bigger problems or problems that can't be easily resolved. Another solution would be to not have really good items early on for sales and only unlock them if you build the house themselves (like the Tam o Shanter for example)

 

Comparing ROG to Hamlet, there is a lot of "low level solution, medium level solution and high level solutions".

What i mean by that is:

- Winter has 4-5 different ways to tackle it (Thermal stones, warm clothes, 3 different level of hats)

- Humid season doesn't push you hard enough: Its only rain. The fog is a pain to deal with at first but you can easily just remove all clothing if necessary. If it rained non stop it could be a great challenge, but it mostly rain 1 day and 1 day it doesn't or less even. The cocoon with the red beetles are a great addition but most people just don't go in rain forest during that season and dodge them completely.

I think the lush season is a great season: Easy way to counter: Gas mask - Hard way: Fan. Vines grow everywhere and NEED to be dealt with. It bugs you in your exploration and your "habits". The more you are disturbed the more you need to actively think and do things on the fly and the more the game isnt just about knowledge but about exploring and thinking on the fly and being in constant stress / SURVIVAL

[magia]

We will see. It's important to complain that game is unfinished despite it being early access, because there wasn't enough complaining during SW and game was a mess on relase.

[Drewey09]

What you fail to realize is that even without stealing Hamlet is still incredibly easy. Let me put it into perspective for you, by day 4 on my most recent playthrough, I had over 50 oincs. By day 9, I explored almost all of the map on the first island. Normally this would have taken me at least till day 20 but I now know how easy it is. I have experienced almost all of the game and the challenge is now gone, hence it being easy. Plus, there isn’t much to make the game hard to begin with. I mastered the majority of tactics, including Oinc gathering, by my fourth playthrough. 

[Yokoblue]

1 hour ago, Drewey09 said:

What you fail to realize is that even without stealing Hamlet is still incredibly easy. Let me put it into perspective for you, by day 4 on my most recent playthrough, I had over 50 oincs. By day 9, I explored almost all of the map on the first island. Normally this would have taken me at least till day 20 but I now know how easy it is. I have experienced almost all of the game and the challenge is now gone, hence it being easy. Plus, there isn’t much to make the game hard to begin with. I mastered the majority of tactics, including Oinc gathering, by my fourth playthrough. 

I'd have to call ******** on that. As a veteran myself, you cant even explore the full map by day 9 if you just do that. So don't lie plz. You can explore the whole first island in maybe 3 days by constantly walking. You can edge out the map fully by day 9 sure but exploring it all with all the ruins etc..

EDIT: I just started a new game i tried to explore most of the map in a quickish matter. I got the whole first island (and all caves) and 2nd island by day 9 while harvesting a bunch of stuff, its still not possible to finish all ruins mant hole etc... But I do get your point.

[gghhrr]

They should add arresting stuff here,

the shopkeeper has the chance to wake up and find you stealing his stuff, shouting and the guards will start chasing after you.

the pig guard directly arrest you once at least two of guards touching you. 

You got to be jailed for few days.

the purpose of this punishment is for wasting your time to get ready for 4th season

[Yokoblue]

10 minutes ago, gghhrr said:

They should add arresting stuff here,

the shopkeeper has the chance to wake up and find you stealing his stuff, shouting and the guards will start chasing after you.

the pig guard directly arrest you once at least two of guards touching you. 

You got to be jailed for few days.

the purpose of this punishment is for wasting your time to get ready for 4th season

Won't work with the build, also it could kill you if you don't have sanity / attacked by shadow monsters / Starving etc... Also not letting a player play the game is bad game design.

I do agree there should be a harsh punishment for it or reduce the amount of steals but i disagree with your solution.

Losing all $ in inventory could be a thing. Spawning more guards after you so that its not so easily manageable (if you are good at kiting even 2 guards is easy). Losing your equipment as well

[gghhrr]

1 minute ago, Yokoblue said:

Won't work with the build, also it could kill you if you don't have sanity / attacked by shadow monsters / Starving etc... Also not letting a player play the game is bad game design.

I do agree there should be a harsh punishment for it or reduce the amount of steals but i disagree with your solution.

Losing all $ in inventory could be a thing. Spawning more guards after you so that its not so easily manageable (if you are good at kiting even 2 guards is easy). Losing your equipment as well

I mean, just skip the days being jails, two guards shouldn't be that easy to kite since you are in shop, they just keep getting closer to you.(Not running away after landing a hit on you), and you may also possibly get escaped sometimes if you're skilled(probably with masked hat or stalk staff will do).

[watermelen671]

5 hours ago, Yokoblue said:

Your whole argument is that the last season will be very hard. But you are just saying that randomly... We have almost no information on the last season and its pure speculation. Endless night ? Speculation, Evolved mants ... if they don't go out it doesn't matter you can just not go. Daily bat waves... Where was that confirmed ? Also, daily could mean 2 bats everyday... and thats nothing.

...why do people keep saying that nothing is known about the Aporkalypse?

The Aporkalypse begins on day 60, and will continue for the rest of the season, and will then happen on random from then on. But whenever it starts, it will continue until the end of the season.

Also, on the daily bats wave thing. NO. It's NOT 2 bats, more like 60.

EVERY. DAY.

[Ellilea]

2 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

...why do people keep saying that nothing is known about the Aporkalypse?

The Aporkalypse begins on day 60, and will continue for the rest of the season, and will then happen on random from then on. But whenever it starts, it will continue until the end of the season.

Also, on the daily bats wave thing. NO. It's NOT 2 bats, more like 60.

EVERY. DAY.

I see you say that again and I'm confused - is the Aporkalypse already implemented in the game? Or is it just in the files? I saw not one other person speak about it and they have played beyond day 60. I died on 56 lol and decided to wait for the full build before retrying, hence I've no clue myself.

[Yokoblue]

1 minute ago, Ellilea said:

I see you say that again and I'm confused - is the Aporkalypse already implemented in the game? Or is it just in the files? I saw not one other person speak about it and they have played beyond day 60. I died on 56 lol and decided to wait for the full build before retrying, hence I've no clue myself.

Its not in the game, but developpers have talked about it. (I have a game with 120 days and no apo)

[Drewey09]

1 hour ago, Yokoblue said:

I'd have to call ******** on that. As a veteran myself, you cant even explore the full map by day 9 if you just do that. So don't lie plz. You can explore the whole first island in maybe 3 days by constantly walking. You can edge out the map fully by day 9 sure but exploring it all with all the ruins etc..

EDIT: I just started a new game i tried to explore most of the map in a quickish matter. I got the whole first island (and all caves) and 2nd island by day 9 while harvesting a bunch of stuff, its still not possible to finish all ruins mant hole etc... But I do get your point.

Ah I see I should have been more specific, I discovered everything on the entire map of the first island, I haven’t finished exploring on said map EVERYTHING, but I have gotten a few caves and ruins. 

[Steefy_92]

2 hours ago, Drewey09 said:

What you fail to realize is that even without stealing Hamlet is still incredibly easy. Let me put it into perspective for you, by day 4 on my most recent playthrough, I had over 50 oincs. By day 9, I explored almost all of the map on the first island. Normally this would have taken me at least till day 20 but I now know how easy it is. I have experienced almost all of the game and the challenge is now gone, hence it being easy. Plus, there isn’t much to make the game hard to begin with. I mastered the majority of tactics, including Oinc gathering, by my fourth playthrough. 

. Over world is small, it doesn't take much to explore that, if you can't get by the day four 50 oincs you are playing game wrong, and honestly you got just started ( I usually get around 70 by the day 4-5). By the day 20 there is no way you have gone through all seasons, faced ants layer, explored the caves and ruins and rest of the content. Just out of curiosity how did  you deal with flying bats? Have you seen RoC?

I will say that game at the moment incomplete but given how they promised they will push more content updates and polished existing.. It's hard to call the shots now about how difficult Hamlet is really going to be

[watermelen671]

20 minutes ago, Ellilea said:

I see you say that again and I'm confused - is the Aporkalypse already implemented in the game? Or is it just in the files? I saw not one other person speak about it and they have played beyond day 60. I died on 56 lol and decided to wait for the full build before retrying, hence I've no clue myself.

18 minutes ago, Yokoblue said:

Its not in the game, but developpers have talked about it. (I have a game with 120 days and no apo)

So I'm confused...is it region specific then? 

I'll try to grab screencaps because I SWEAR I'M NOT CRAZY!!

[Yokoblue]

Just now, watermelen671 said:

So I'm confused...is it region specific then? 

I'll try to grab screencaps because I SWEAR I'M NOT CRAZY!!

When you start the game it even says on the screen that it will only be implemented on Dec 6th. So if you have it now... its a bug... a beautiful nice bug lol

[watermelen671]

15 minutes ago, Yokoblue said:

When you start the game it even says on the screen that it will only be implemented on Dec 6th. So if you have it now... its a bug... a beautiful nice bug lol

I don't think that's what they meant. I think it's like a promo thing. 

Spoiler

I can't really think of a good example at the moment...but I do have an example.

Sonic Forces had the promo line of: Join the Resistance. It said something that was actually a part of the game, while also being generally intriguing.

Klei did the same sort of thing, albeit with their classic Klei way of somehow working a pun into it.

[Yokoblue]

5 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

I don't think that's what they meant. I think it's like a promo thing. 

  Reveal hidden contents

I can't really think of a good example at the moment...but I do have an example.

Sonic Forces had the promo line of: Join the Resistance. It said something that was actually a part of the game, while also being generally intriguing.

Klei did the same sort of thing, albeit with their classic Klei way of somehow working a pun into it.

Yes it is a promo... To the unveiling of the last season lol. Its definitely not in the game right now. I have 3 games over 60 days and I haven't experienced it yet.

[Drewey09]

44 minutes ago, Steefy_92 said:

. Over world is small, it doesn't take much to explore that, if you can't get by the day four 50 oincs you are playing game wrong, and honestly you got just started ( I usually get around 70 by the day 4-5). By the day 20 there is no way you have gone through all seasons, faced ants layer, explored the caves and ruins and rest of the content. Just out of curiosity how did  you deal with flying bats? Have you seen RoC?

I will say that game at the moment incomplete but given how they promised they will push more content updates and polished existing.. It's hard to call the shots now about how difficult Hamlet is really going to be

I wrote a guide on the ROC “The comprehensive guide to the ROC” and Bats are extremely easy, a Halberd can kill them without them being able to attack you, or you could just simply take them to Hamlet. And I have no idea where you got day 20 from, I have made it way past that. When I said “day 20” in my post I was referring to when I first started hamlet on my second playthrough.

[BadlyBurned]

If you don't read the wikia or any spoilers, then this game is just madness. I literally laughed my face off the first run through. EVERYTHING IN THE JUNGLE WANTS TO KILL YOU!!! It's insane!

This of things that happened on my 1st run through.

1) Some stranger punched me in the face and stole all my money. He then ran away like a little girl before I could get it back

2) Grabbed some delicious veggies just SITTING there and some guard tried to MURDER me over it. Now that damn guard remembers me no matter how long I wait. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to kill him. Which makes me sad.

3) Squirrels and Pogs constantly steal my food. Which I need to live. Squirrel even tries to put on my backpack and run off (He was too small, but he tried and tried and tried. It was awesome to see)

4) Ran through a forest. Chased by 10 000 red beetles which are faster than me. Ran into some cloud of stuff that poisoned me for like 20 seconds but then stopped.

5) SURVIVED to day 25.. then started coughing and going insane for no reason. Over and over and over.

6) Bats finally got me. Like endless waves of 10-20 of these things every few days. Total madness.

 

People who say this game is too easy I think are prepping too much. Like how on earth would I even know how to survive the coughing season I didn't read up on it? or see it in a walk through video?

 

Brutal game. Love it.