Need Sustainable way to get frequently used finite resources

[ArunPrasath]

There must be a sustainable way to get all resources indefinitely (maybe at a slower pace).

This should be for the extremely late game scenario when we run out of pretty much all resources. Geysers does help, but there are a lot other resources that are finite and is used very much (like slime) thats non-renewable and will end up not having any more mushrooms in the game as food.

[Madbro]

2 hours ago, ArunPrasath said:

There must be a sustainable way to get all resources indefinitely (maybe at a slower pace).

This should be for the extremely late game scenario when we run out of pretty much all resources. Geysers does help, but there are a lot other resources that are finite and is used very much (like slime) thats non-renewable and will end up not having any more mushrooms in the game as food.

Pufts may help resupply slime. Did your pufts gone extinct?

[babba]

I kindly ask for an industrial machinery way to mass produce Slime.

[Daxterr]

I thought that was the point of space?

[babba]

Mhhh. How long will a player, who has never played the game before, need to build a working rocket? Let's throw in a number - 1000 game cycles? That's 10000 minutes, around 166 hours. Randomly assuming an average player plays the game 2 hours a day, 83 days. If one would say that such a theoretical players plays the game every second day, that's half a year passing by. This time calculation does not include starting a 2nd fresh map or multiple new maps due to player failures, resource deadends or otherwise experienced problems and frustrations

Even on the "No sweat" setting, with no food, morale etc. needs - Players get more or less often sidetracked or stuck with their personal playstyle. I love ONI, but IMHO its a bit too hardcore for the masses. I do believe that integrating a tradepost in the early game, to be able to trade/exchange resources would especially benefit new players. Too many frustrated players give up on this great game.

If Klei would sell 10 times more of this game - We would all, including the most hardcore of hardcore players, benefit from ongoing development and future content updates.

[Coolthulhu]

3 hours ago, babba said:

I kindly ask for an industrial machinery way to mass produce Slime.

Pufts just need massive bufts buffs. For example, numeric buffs (higher consumption) getting rid of the prince and making the morphs depend on surrounding gas, letting them be wrangled.

[TheGCat]

3 hours ago, babba said:

Mhhh. How long will a player, who has never played the game before, need to build a working rocket? Let's throw in a number - 1000 game cycles? That's 10000 minutes, around 166 hours. Randomly assuming an average player plays the game 2 hours a day, 83 days. If one would say that such a theoretical players plays the game every second day, that's half a year passing by. This time calculation does not include starting a 2nd fresh map or multiple new maps due to player failures, resource deadends or otherwise experienced problems and frustrations

All right so far, but i would personally not play the game, if it were to easy. The most games on the market are for stupid people. Forgive me It's the truth. The cycles are not the problem, the performance is! How much FPS u get at 1000 cycles ? I have on the second speed 19FPS with 16 Dupes + 4 into the space (Don't know if they count or not) and explored the whole map. On the fastest speed, the game is not more playable.

I have failed at the beginning too. From game to game u get more experience. U learn the oxygen production, to build rooms, where u should build these rooms and in which order u should start to build your colony. New player will fail, of course!   Why should i play a game, if i cannot lose ? I personally hate the GUI of the game. It's a MESS! That is not player friendly and the bad performance of the game. Count all the buttons on the screen. Incredible. the most of the time, the infotext is too small. I set the GUI to 115% and it is still small. 

[babba]

Very interesting to read your view on the game, sharing your experiences with the forum users.

There is other games which can be hard as hell to play, which include resource trading functions. If ONI had a resource exchange/trade option, perhaps players could be able to switch Trading on/off at map generation. Its not about dumbing the game down, but there is players which have a gigaton of certain resources which they never or seldom use, playing without debug mode and there is players which are in dire need of this one resource ABCXYZ which can not be mined or produced anymore ( Critter extinct, no more map space, player needs a regular huge amount of a resource, game update with new or changed things affecting the games resource materials etc. )

In terms of the games frame rate, game speed - Maybe you find my comments below useful:

-------------

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/96484-100-kw-200-kw-500-kw-powerline/?tab=comments#comment-1097668

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95053-how-well-does-oni-multithread/?do=findComment&comment=1079798

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95016-frame-rate-optimization/?do=findComment&comment=1079420

ONI scales exactly to this list, so the game runs best on the top 5, 10 or 20 fastest single thread cpu`s. So one can make a tradeoff between price and ONI FPS.
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

ONI Low Budget CPU Tip, good single core performers:

"Old" Intel i3 6100 @3.7 GHz or newer i3 7350k @4.2 GHz - High base clocks, decent caches, but both have no Turbo Boost.

ONI Enthusiast CPU Tip, higher budget: i7 6700k 7700k 8700k 8086k, i9 Series . I rather recommend the i7 Series for ONI, as the i9 series has too many cores and too much shared resources. Howerever - Great cache sizes on the i9 series.

Wish I could recommend AMD for ONI, but not with their current low single core performance. ONI also strongly benefits from large CPU level1/2/3 caches and of course single core turbo boost, if supported by the cpu and with proper cooling.

Intel is getting a bit in to panic mode in view of current and upcoming AMD stuff - Good !

 

[ArunPrasath]

8 hours ago, Madbro said:

Pufts may help resupply slime. Did your pufts gone extinct?

And how many pufts are needed for a farm with 20 mushrooms? All those pufts need polluted oxygen too. You do the math.

[babba]

Once I had 1000 Puffts in an effort to try to keep my 4 screen wide automatic mushroom farm alive, no chance. I needed hundreds of tons of Slime every now and then. This was playing without debug mode. Once all Slime was mined, the end. It would be great to be able to trade resources, especially for frustrated beginners playing the game (and for me, hihihi).

[goboking]

17 hours ago, ArunPrasath said:

Geysers does help, but there are a lot other resources that are finite and is used very much (like slime) thats non-renewable and will end up not having any more mushrooms in the game as food.

We absolutely need a practical, renewable source of slime in the early or mid game.  Too many production chains come crashing to a halt when slime, and by extension algae, runs out.  Algae oxidizers and terrariums, algae distillers, mushroom farms, and pacu are all dependent on this one resource that we can't replace without rockets or a CPU-straining plague of morbs.

 

14 hours ago, babba said:

I kindly ask for an industrial machinery way to mass produce Slime.

It doesn't have to be an industrial machine, per se.  They could add a way to grow it via farming or balance Pufts if they don't want to make slime something we get from industrial machinery.

[Coolthulhu]

12 hours ago, goboking said:

Algae oxidizers and terrariums

Pretty sure those two are supposed to become obsolete by early midgame, when they are permanently replaced by electrolysis.

The idea to turn terrarium into an algae farm is a pretty common suggestion on the forums. It's a really bad building right now, so it's not like radically changing it would be likely to make it worse. That would reduce the pressure to perform on pufts, which are a really bad critter right now. Pufts, which get their resources for (bad) conversion from morbs and offgassing pools, which are really bad critters and contraptions right now.

I'm starting to notice a pattern here.

[Oozinator]

12 hours ago, goboking said:

We absolutely need a practical, renewable source of slime in the early or mid game.

Lategame ok, but early?
So much slime around. Refs filled with PW do nice offgassing for that - pufft slime production and together with bio destillers it gives algae back for PW..

[clickrush]

35 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

Lategame ok, but early?
So much slime around. Refs filled with PW do nice offgassing for that - pufft slime production and together with bio destillers it gives algae back for PW..

Or in other words, nothing needs to be renewable/sustainable in the early and mid game. Mushrooms are a cheap, average quality food source for players who dig/explore and don't want to worry about food production for a (very long) while. For players who want to bunker themselves in that early there are other solutions such as an egg dropper for omeletes, a berry sludge farm or a pacu pond. Mushrooms are essentially a stepping stone to higher quality, fully sustainable food sources. A very forgiving and easy to maintain for a long time stepping stone.

[babba]

I respect your say, I have a different opinion. If the game would limit us to 3 dupes, including debug players - Then I would be fine with your answer ( I also would also play a different game title then ). Some players, playing without debug, work very long on mono culture productions - Either ranching, farming or both. This joy is taken away by limiting a resource, to not allow operating large monoculture developments.

I find this similar to Cities Skylines, where the developers had implement highways to have a certain amount of highway lanes. One of the most asked for, most downloaded, most used and over years best-developed mod for the game is "Traffic President" - Which gives you the whole armada of traffic and lanes stuff.

ONI has no official mod support. Modding is more or less limited and in that view we will not know if we can expect real depth mods or what caused our game to crash if we use those.

This game has a limited buyer and player base, content updates are now stretched from 1 month to 2 months, my appeal is to make the game more attractive to players. Nothing will be taken away from existing players to be open to infinite resources, the dupes penalties of just eating one type of food are already in the game.

Nothing will change for those who play the game as they are playing it right now, it just gives builders and tycoons more options.

Please implement a trade exchange system in to the game. Klei implements game changes in a clever way, they will ensure that the game will not get dumbed down. Just gives us more options and possibilities and please dont make resource finite. Thank you.

Please also think of people trying to play this game the first time, not every player re-continues a game after being stuck for 5 times on something, constantly restarting maps. For us its the hardcore joy, but it does limit the player base - A trade system would enable those stuck beginners to exchange ( with a bad conversion rate ) what they have plenty against what they urgently need to proceed and survive in their map.

[Oozinator]

Just now, babba said:

*snippidisnipsnapzawockazong* including debug players *snippidisnipsnapzawockazong*

All Klei has to do is making stuff optional, perhaps an altar as easy solution, where you throw a dupe in, to get 1T of a choosen ressource?

When player is lucky, dupe dies not in the exchange process, instead loosing an arm only, or a leg and gets a wheelchair then, which gives 150% rollspeed horizontally, but for vertically movement they need a wheelchair elevatorshaft.
For the arm replacement, it could give 50% workspeed, but -162% ladder interaction speed.
Would prevent dupespam from portal and would be a "nice" solution.
Throw him in again, but altar needs energy to recharge and 3 crittereggs at specific temperatures.
One at -10 , one at 0, one at +10° Celsius, to recharge.
Altar is creating as byproduct the Psyomelette out of this, which could be fed to dupes, to make them able to levitate with wheelchair.
Chance is 5% for the levitate buff. 95% should be filled with negative traits. *screamer* *always panicmode* *blind* and so on.

 

[babba]

What I hate with the internet nowadays is that some people just reply with a single sentence after writing a really long essay

[D.L.S.]

12 minutes ago, babba said:

Please implement a trade exchange system in to the game. Klei implements game changes in a clever way, they will ensure that the game will not get dumbed down. Just gives us more options and possibilities and please dont make resource finite. Thank you.

Trading with what? I mean there is consumables in game, and relatively useless rocks which we have almost in infinite quantity, you really think devs alow us trade rocks on water/oil or other consumables, i think if such trading system would implemented, we will trade consumables on other consumables(and at not efficient ratio), so we still left with problem that consumables soon or later will end, and all we will left is useless rocks.

You can treat rocketry stuff as trading - you exchange fuel on some rare/useful things, but only you get things on random...

[babba]

Well its all up to our ideas. Yeah, sounds good what you are writing. Trading category types like solid,fluid,gasses would make sense, good idea

Its a similar situation to the times where people wrote "Ohhh, it would be so great if we could launch rockets!" and others said "Nah, I want to build on my colony in peace...".

I would like to be able to upgrade the dupe printing portal to also be able to exchange materials ( Trade Portal upgrade ), this could help stuck beginners a lot and also be a joy for advanced players. Not everyone has only rocks to offer...

[Oozinator]

Just now, babba said:

What I hate with the internet nowadays is that some people just reply with a single sentence after writing a really long essay

What about squeezestones, they are buried objects on the map and stay, where they are.
They could get "tuned" buy a dupe with any solid/liquid/gas material.
Tune one up for slime for example and dupes must squeeze it to create the wanted ressource.
The stones last endless, when in comfy temp range, but its very small.

They die off when to hot or to cold.
Range should be 6-8° C and they should die off within ten cycles, when leaving comfy temp range, also reducing performance permanent (lock).
Dupes must also interact with it, could hug it (no exos allowed), gives 150% output, jumping onto it with exos 25% output and bumping with an wheelchair onto it, gives 200%.
Permanent dupe interaction needed, or performance of squeezestone goes down and locks in place.
Perhaps 4 dupes in four shifts for each stone would be nice.

[babba]

I find the game is really missing costumes. What about a wardrobe, which contains cowboy hats, clown costumes and FreddieKrueger masks? Every time a dupe passes, there is a 1.3% chance that the dupe takes a costume and does a 5.3 second long wiggle dance with it.

Moral increase should be +2 for a range of 12 tiles in all directions ( gets blocked and reflected by glass structures ).

[D.L.S.]

17 minutes ago, babba said:

I would like to be able to upgrade the dupe printing portal to also be able to exchange materials ( Trade Portal upgrade ), this could help stuck beginners a lot and also be a joy for advanced players. Not everyone has only rocks to offer...

Not sure if i got your point, but you mean that let say you have oil and you need water, so instead of building huge plant to turn oil->petroleum->syngas->methane->polluted water->clean water, you just use trading feature to directly exchange oil to water? Or exchange water to oil at early game, it could break game, like we could get endgame materials in first cycles.

And i'd prefer(and i think people, who ask it, meant something similar) that we could land rocket on some small(128x128) map and explore, dig, pack cargo bay to the brim with things we dug and fly away on our main asteroid, that's sort of rocketry in game.

[babba]

Im absolutely with your plan on having more resource access by rocket landing on some planet, moon or so...Excavating on small 128x128 maps, one time visit access to such maps for the game programmers - So fire and forget map exploration and excavation. Then I could play the game normal, build huge farms and then rush to space for large scale resource access. If those things need to refined via several refinement stations and processes - Thats fine, thats what ONI is about.

What would you suggest for players which get stuck and overwhelmed in the early game ? I think it would be great for those players to have some form of helping resource access, even if they can only access that help a few times in their normal game. This one time helper supplies would be perhaps clean water,50000 calories of food & 100 tiles of the best insulation material and a one time initial stress relief to 0% for all dupes on the map.

Regardless of the current suggestion offering the "No sweat", players will start normal as its the default setting. Also the current "No sweat" game choice still need additional configuration by players to make the game really easy. Even on those barest settings, I believe a one time helper (water,food,insulation) would make new players more comfy with the game.

So if the beginner player presses the one-time emergency button > A friendly trader/supporter bringing those things along. Lets have some friends and visitors in the game, it feels so static...

[D.L.S.]

7 minutes ago, babba said:

What would you suggest for players which get stuck and overwhelmed in the early game ? I think it would be great for those players to have some form of helping resource access, even if they can only access that help a few times.

Start new map, if it is early game there is not much to lose anyways, we all did so with our first colonies.