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How to produce isogel?


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On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 12:58 PM, Saturnus said:

Think you need materials you can only get from other asteroids.

And by the look of thing it is furthest asteroid at the moment, so it is incredibly late game receipt.

P.S. Insulator late game is kind of too late for most purposes((( By that time player will have double and triple layers of ceramic or mafic rock everywhere. 

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12 minutes ago, AndreyKl said:

And by the look of thing it is furthest asteroid at the moment, so it is incredibly late game receipt.

P.S. Insulator late game is kind of too late for most purposes((( By that time player will have double and triple layers of ceramic or mafic rock everywhere. 

Here is your end game materials that you dont need since you already implemented solutions.  If it is true they are only on last planet, you dont even get to use superinsulator for your lox and lh2

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7 minutes ago, chemie said:

Here is your end game materials that you dont need since you already implemented solutions.  If it is true they are only on last planet, you dont even get to use superinsulator for your lox and lh2

That's also what I'm fearing.

I don't get why we needed a full on total nerf to abyssalite. Just drastically reduce the mass in each natural tile on the map so we can't spam it everywhere and have to be frugal with it. But I for one really don't like the implication that we have to, with a gun to our heads, build rockets to be able to build interesting builds. I don't like or appreciate being shoe horned into one particular play style. 

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14 minutes ago, chemie said:

Here is your end game materials that you dont need since you already implemented solutions.  If it is true they are only on last planet, you dont even get to use superinsulator for your lox and lh2

It will be usefull for pipes either way. But yes, by that time everything will be either in vacuum or over-insulated by other materials. Abbysalita was just simplifying some things. It is entirely possible to get lh2 without supercoolant or ideal insulator, the biggest problem is how to get rid of large amounts of heat that will be generated by aquatuners, not insulation.

 

2 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

I don't get why we needed a full on total nerf to abyssalite. Just drastically reduce the mass in each natural tile on the map so we can't spam it everywhere and have to be frugal with it.

Or add ingredient for superinsulator to closest asteroids. I think it will work much better this way.

P.S. I hope that asteroids will be randomly generated so there will be a chance to aquire the staff a lot earlier even if in small quantities.

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1 minute ago, AndreyKl said:

It will be usefull for pipes either way. But yes, by that time everything will be either in vacuum or over-insulated by other materials. Abbysalita was just simplifying some things. It is entirely possible to get lh2 without supercoolant or ideal insulator, the biggest problem is how to get rid of large amounts of heat that will be generated by aquatuners, not insulation.

Getting rid of heat is no problem with steam turbines though.

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Just now, AndreyKl said:

It will be usefull for pipes either way. But yes, by that time everything will be either in vacuum or over-insulated by other materials. Abbysalita was just simplifying some things. It is entirely possible to get lh2 without supercoolant or ideal insulator, the biggest problem is how to get rid of large amounts of heat that will be generated by aquatuners, not insulation.

With right geysers, you can vent pw or water into space.  But yes, aquatuners only move heat.  I guess massive weezewort rooms.  At least you are cooling gas vs liquid for lh2.

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4 minutes ago, AndreyKl said:

It only works down to 226 degrees. Aqutuner is supposed to get damaged after 125. 

Both yes and no. Output steam from a steam turbine is 400K (~152C) no matter what the input is. And currently aquatuners work until they melt as they bloody well should. The 125C (175C with gold amalgam) previous overheat temperature was always an arbitrary artificial limit.

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20 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Output steam from a steam turbine is 400K (~152C)

To me it looks like turbine drops temperature by fixed amount of degrees, not fixed output. And heat exchange is so fast that drop barely maters.

 Regardless it is minimum work temp of 226C that matters, without resolving to exploits we can't heat anything above 125/175C.

20 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

And currently aquatuners work until they melt as they bloody well should.

The fact that we can block some of turbine's vents and aquatuner working above temp limit is clearly a bug&exploit from my point of view. Aqyuatuner states that it has temp limit, so it should enforce it - it is normal for equipment to have temperature limits.

25 minutes ago, chemie said:

With right geysers, you can vent pw or water into space.  But yes, aquatuners only move heat.  I guess massive weezewort rooms.  At least you are cooling gas vs liquid for lh2.

I'm considering heating other rocket fuels like petroleum or steam while they are transitioning to rockets.

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1 minute ago, AndreyKl said:

To me it looks like turbine drops temperature by fixed amount of degrees, not fixed output. 

Incorrect. It's fixed output temp at 400K. That's why you can use it in reverse as an infinite heat source as well.

4 minutes ago, AndreyKl said:

Regardless it is minimum work temp of 226C that matters, without resolving to exploits we can't heat anything above 125/175C.

Maybe you can't. Everyone else can, without exploits.

5 minutes ago, AndreyKl said:

The fact that we can block some of turbine's vents and aquatuner working above temp limit is clearly a bug&exploit from my point of view.

I have the opposite opinion. The overheat temps was a bug (and/or artificial limit with no base in reality).

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21 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Maybe you can't. Everyone else can, without exploits.

Correction, heating is not an issue, but goal is to cool some liquid with aquatuner (or gas) so then cooled liquid can be used to cool h2 to liquid state and aqutuner is limited by 175.

Teoretically it might be possible to first let aqutuner run till 175 and heat steam, then isolate steam from aqutuner, add temperature to steam and let turbine drop temperature to 152C.
But taking turbine's conductivity into account I doubt it will work this way.

21 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Incorrect. It's fixed output temp at 400K. That's why you can use it in reverse as an infinite heat source as well.

Any example of such builds? I somehow doubt turbine allows reversed flow. It would not only be a massive exploit but also illogical function.

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6 hours ago, AndreyKl said:

I hope they will fix it.

Whatever, As I say in the thread: Ridiculous problems require ridiculous solutions. If Klei didn't rain stupid amounts of regolith down on the asteroid, we wouldn't need such builds. Fix the stupidity of the regolith problem first then we have no need to make such things.

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51 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

The overheat temps was a bug (and/or artificial limit with no base in reality).

There are reality based reasons why various machines in real life can't have wide temperature ranges. An engine might melt at couple thousand degrees, but it will jam long before that because of metal 'expanding' and locking critical parts, in some cases even deforming them.

Look at rails: they become shorter in winter and longer during summer. Places them into too hot conditions and rails will push each other into deformation. Hight temperature making rails stress&bend&deform is known issue.

Why 'mechanical' aqutuner should be different? It visually has mechanical parts so it should jam at high temperatures. Thus working temperature should be lower then melting temperature.

P.S. Personally I hope there will be a way to passively radiate heat to space - slow but free method, it will solve a lot of issues. 

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8 hours ago, chemie said:

Here is your end game materials that you dont need since you already implemented solutions.

This is precisely what happened with me and Don't Starve Together.  By the time I got around to getting the endgame materials, I already had all my solutions to problems built.  The end game materials didn't really help solve any new problems, and I lost interest in the game. 

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7 hours ago, Saturnus said:

Maybe you can't. Everyone else can, without exploits.

The only way to run a steam turbine without exploits is using a volcano, which means you can't use it to delete heat.  It is certainly a bug that the aquatuner does not overheat.  It is a silly design that the max overheat temp is only 175 C.  You should be able to built it out of steel or tungsten to get it hot enough to run the steam turbine, but not to melt magma.

 

7 hours ago, Saturnus said:

Whatever, As I say in the thread: Ridiculous problems require ridiculous solutions. If Klei didn't rain stupid amounts of regolith down on the asteroid, we would need such builds. Fix the stupidity of the regolith problem first then we have no need to make such things.

I think the glass forge should be able to melt regolith into magma.

7 hours ago, AndreyKl said:

P.S. Personally I hope there will be a way to passively radiate heat to space - slow but free method, it will solve a lot of issues. 

indeed; space should be hot in the day and cold at night.

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13 hours ago, psusi said:

The only way to run a steam turbine without exploits is using a volcano, which means you can't use it to delete heat.

Offtopic: You can run it from Meteors/Regolith as well. Not that it helps in getting h2 for rocket...

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13 hours ago, psusi said:

I think the glass forge should be able to melt regolith into magma.

Small problems with that. You can't actually make glass with the glass forge without breaking pipes now that we don't have abyssalite. Or at least it's very hard to set up and even then very unstable. Besides glass forge requires duplicant operation and the throughput is so low that you'd need at least 20 of them running non-stop 24/7 with dupes doing nothing else just to keep up with the constant rain of regolith.

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1 hour ago, AndreyKl said:

Offtopic: You can run it from Meteors/Regolith as well. Not that it helps in getting h2 for rocket...

Regolith isn't really hot enough for that.

44 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Small problems with that. You can't actually make glass with the glass forge without breaking pipes now that we don't have abyssalite. Or at least it's very hard to set up and even then very unstable. Besides glass forge requires duplicant operation and the throughput is so low that you'd need at least 20 of them running non-stop 24/7 with dupes doing nothing else just to keep up with the constant rain of regolith.

Ceramic insulated pipes don't work?

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