Spicy Chili doesn't heat you up? [possible bug]

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

I tried it out and it doesn't heat up the player in DST. Is this a bug? Wanted to ask, may be I don't understand its mechanics correctly, but the wiki explicitly states that it does: http://dontstarve.wikia.com/wiki/Spicy_Chili

[KoreanWaffles]

The Wiki is a bit misleading in the fact that it says it increases your temperature by 40 degrees. The food doesn't give a 40 degree temperature bonus, the temperature bonus is just capped at 40.

The way food and temperature work is that any food with a temperature bonus will slowly grant you that bonus until the duration of the effect wears off. Here's a list of foods that grant temperature bonuses.

Hot Temperature Bonuses
Stuffed Eggplant, 5 seconds
Honey Ham, 10 seconds
Dragon Pie, 10 seconds
Kabobs, 15 seconds
Turkey Dinner, 10 seconds
Spicy Chili, 15 seconds
Apple Cider, 15 seconds (Winter's Feast)
Hot Cocoa, 15 seconds (Winter's Feast)

Cold Temperature Bonuses
Fruit Medley, 5 seconds
Ice Cream, 15 seconds
Melonsicle, 10 seconds
Heavenly Eggnog, 15 seconds (Winter's Feast)

All these foods grant a 40 degree temperature bonus at a rate of 1 degree per second. This means that it is impossible for a single food to grant you the full 40 degree temperature bonus, since none of them last 40+ seconds. However, you can combine foods to extend the duration to 40+ seconds to receive the full 40 degree temperature bonus (e.g. eat 4 Spicy Chilies to get +40 temperature over 40 seconds and receive the maximum temperature bonus for 20 seconds).

Note: Temperature bonuses do not stack on time of each other. Eating multiple temperature boosting foods simply refreshes the bonus, so you'll have to wait out the duration of the bonus before eating more (Think Jellybeans).

Edit: I forgot to mention that when freezing/overheating, any warming/cooling effects will be multiplied by 5 until you are no longer freezing/overheating. (Note that the minimum player temperature is -20, and the maximum in 90, so the largest temperature bonus you can gain from a single food is 31 degrees.)

 

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

@KoreanWaffles no, literally, it doesn't heat you up! I ate like 6 of those and was still freezing like hell! Where as if I'm badly overheating and eat a melonsickle, which has the equivalent of 40 degree temperature, but with a cooling down effect instead, I see my character cool down instantly! Spicy chili must be bugged then.

 

EDIT: And for that matter, ANY food item that is supposed to heat you up! I remember eating honey ham/honey nuggets in the middle of winter, when I was getting the freezing UI before taking damage, and that didn't go away at all, when shouldn't it have had to?

[Korlie]

55 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

EDIT: And for that matter, ANY food item that is supposed to heat you up! I remember eating honey ham/honey nuggets in the middle of winter, when I was getting the freezing UI before taking damage, and that didn't go away at all, when shouldn't it have had to?

Have you tried eating them when you were not freezing? Maybe they don't work past a certain temperature.

[KoreanWaffles]

3 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

EDIT: And for that matter, ANY food item that is supposed to heat you up! I remember eating honey ham/honey nuggets in the middle of winter, when I was getting the freezing UI before taking damage, and that didn't go away at all, when shouldn't it have had to?

Honey Nuggets do not provide a temperature bonus. (Honey Ham does)
I think I found the problem though.

Any food with a hot temperature bonus will cool down over time, and it will cool even faster when in an icebox.

I was digging around in the perishable file and found this

		-- Cool off hot foods over time (faster if in a fridge)
		if inst.components.edible and inst.components.edible.temperaturedelta and inst.components.edible.temperaturedelta > 0 then
			if owner and owner:HasTag("fridge") then
				if not owner:HasTag("nocool") then
					inst.components.edible.temperatureduration = inst.components.edible.temperatureduration - 1
				end
			elseif TheWorld.state.temperature < TUNING.OVERHEAT_TEMP - 5 then
				inst.components.edible.temperatureduration = inst.components.edible.temperatureduration - .25
			end
			if inst.components.edible.temperatureduration < 0 then inst.components.edible.temperatureduration = 0 end
		end
        
        --trigger the next callback
        if inst.components.perishable.perishremainingtime and inst.components.perishable.perishremainingtime <= 0 then
			inst.components.perishable:Perish()
        end
    end
end

local dt = 10 + math.random()*FRAMES*8
    self.updatetask = self.inst:DoPeriodicTask(dt, Update, math.random()*2, dt)
end

function Perishable:Perish()
    if self.updatetask ~= nil then
        self.updatetask:Cancel()
        self.updatetask = nil
    end

    if self.perishfn ~= nil then
        self.perishfn(self.inst)
    end

 

I don't have much experience in coding, but I'm sure someone here can figure out the how long it takes for hot foods to cool down.

[Sinister_Fang]

The more we look into this mechanic, the more I wonder why it even exists at all. I mean it makes perfect sense from a logic standpoint, but it doesn't really add much of anything to gameplay. It's easier to just change your temperature with (endothermic) fires.

[Korlie]

10 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

The more we look into this mechanic, the more I wonder why it even exists at all. I mean it makes perfect sense from a logic standpoint, but it doesn't really add much of anything to gameplay. It's easier to just change your temperature with (endothermic) fires.

There's a decent amount of relatively pointless stuff in this game. Thermometer, rainometer, night light, breezy vest, rabbit earmuffs, Winona, mucus, so on.

They probably added it for the sake of subtle realism, or like with all of the above because they had nothing else to do that day.

[Szczuku]

9 minutes ago, Korlie said:

There's a decent amount of relatively pointless stuff in this game. Thermometer, rainometer, night light, breezy vest, rabbit earmuffs, Winona, mucus, so on.

Thermometer was added so people without mod would know when summer/winter arrives. Rainometer is useful only in shipwrecked so I agree with you on that. Night light was supposed (I think) to be the light source in the ruins base because of all nightmare fuel that is created there (talking about singleplayer where at the end of nightmare cycle every shadow creature would drop it). Breezy vest is for winter. Pretty obvious. And yes I know that you can survive winter with only hat and thermal I've done it with only thermal, but new players might have trouble keeping themselves warm. Rabbit earmuffs are used by many so idk why you said they're usless. ... . And yeah mucus was added just... because.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

4 hours ago, Korlie said:

There's a decent amount of relatively pointless stuff in this game. Thermometer, rainometer, night light, breezy vest, rabbit earmuffs, Winona, mucus, so on.

They probably added it for the sake of subtle realism, or like with all of the above because they had nothing else to do that day.

Aside from rabbit earmuffs, which I still use when I can't get anything else (though it could be good to not require a science machine to make one), a lot of these items/structures could just be buffed in some form, like giving breezy vest 120 insulation or making night light regulate temperature to comfortable levels (e.g. 30).

@KoreanWaffles wow, that's realistically dumb. If the game had more things to go for it along with this mechanic, then may be this could be a decent mechanic, but right now this seems like a really dumb move. There's no way to warm up your food, is there, or can you sit near campfire to farm up your food? Because ice and stuff does melt quicker when you're near a fire.

[Rellimarual]

18 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

The more we look into this mechanic, the more I wonder why it even exists at all. I mean it makes perfect sense from a logic standpoint, but it doesn't really add much of anything to gameplay. It's easier to just change your temperature with (endothermic) fires.

It’s quite helpful in single-player. In SW, you can grab a stack of ceviche when the volcano eruptions are imminent and not worry about staying cool until they end.

[TemporaryMan]

9 hours ago, Korlie said:

There's a decent amount of relatively pointless stuff in this game. Thermometer, rainometer, night light, breezy vest, rabbit earmuffs, Winona, mucus, so on.

They probably added it for the sake of subtle realism, or like with all of the above because they had nothing else to do that day.

But at least we notice these unnecessary structures.  This food temperature system effectively makes itself invisible and inconsequential.  The only way you could benefit from it is if you eat the food fresh out of the crock pot, but by then, most players would have spent 20 seconds at the campfire while the food cooks.

Besides, how exactly does spicy food become less spicy when it's physically cold?

 

I'm curious about this "nocool" tag.  What containers have this? 

[Korlie]

1 hour ago, Rellimarual said:

It’s quite helpful in single-player. In SW, you can grab a stack of ceviche when the volcano eruptions are imminent and not worry about staying cool until they end.

Cooling foods are generally far more useful then the warming ones yes, since it is easy to make fire to heat you up but far more difficult to make something on the fly to cool you down. I often use ice to keep cool in summer if I joined the server late. It's the warming mechanic on certain foods that is more in question.

4 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Aside from rabbit earmuffs, which I still use when I can't get anything else (though it could be good to not require a science machine to make one), a lot of these items/structures could just be buffed in some form, like giving breezy vest 120 insulation or making night light regulate temperature to comfortable levels (e.g. 30).

Unfortunately people seem to be generally fine with things the way they are. The classic if it's useful one one thousandth of the time or if there is an obscure ridiculous purpose it could serve in theory that they can come up with, then to them it's balanced content that doesn't need to be changed.

Plus the developers seem to be fine with novelty content, even though if something like the Breezy Vest had double insulation it would actually be a viable piece of content that could be used just as much as anything else in preparation for the seasons.

1 minute ago, TemporaryMan said:

But at least we notice these unnecessary structures.  This food temperature system effectively makes itself invisible and inconsequential.  The only way you could benefit from it is if you eat the food fresh out of the crock pot, but by then, most players would have spent 20 seconds at the campfire while the food cooks.

Besides, how exactly does spicy food become less spicy when it's physically cold?

Like I said it's probably meant to be more for subtle realism then to actually be a legitimate game mechanic, like how the developers give the characters dialogue for discontinued content for the sake of keeping everything conceptually consistent.

The spicy food isn't becoming less spicy from being physically cold though, when the food becomes cold it becomes cold and thus is not warm anymore. Spiciness is not related to heat at all, if it were how do you think spicy foods stay spicy even after they get cold. Spiciness causes a reaction similar to heat when humans try to consume it. It isn't actually generating real heat it just causes a burning sensation. 

[Lumina]

It's sad that food will lose heating power over time. The base idea is maybe not very useful but you could do cool stuff with it with modding, but i feel the restriction is unecessary since it's not that powerful...

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

9 hours ago, Korlie said:

Cooling foods are generally far more useful then the warming ones yes, since it is easy to make fire to heat you up but far more difficult to make something on the fly to cool you down. I often use ice to keep cool in summer if I joined the server late. It's the warming mechanic on certain foods that is more in question.

How do you get ice at all, deep into summer? Find a base that has it stored away? Well, that's going to plummet their ice supply for sure.

9 hours ago, Korlie said:

Unfortunately people seem to be generally fine with things the way they are. The classic if it's useful one one thousandth of the time or if there is an obscure ridiculous purpose it could serve in theory that they can come up with, then to them it's balanced content that doesn't need to be changed.

Plus the developers seem to be fine with novelty content, even though if something like the Breezy Vest had double insulation it would actually be a viable piece of content that could be used just as much as anything else in preparation for the seasons.

It's just a dumb excuse for not balancing actual content. Novelty items being half of the content is just ridiculous. Imagine making a game that's 99% novelty items, is that still an excuse? I don't think so. People seem to be fine with anything, if this is just fine then, and it's really because Klei doesn't do anything to tweak stuff, so what's the point suggesting changes.

[Rellimarual]

Novelty items are fun, and part of getting to know the game (which is the most fun part) is making and trying new things to see what their possible uses might be. Trial and error. Recently on a public server a new player asked me what the one man band does. I almost didn’t tell him because experimenting with all that stuff, even when I couldn’t find a good use for it was a blast for me. OMB is a great example of how many little surprises there are just when you think you’ve seen everything. Put it inside Hutch with a light bulb and he changes color, makes pretty music and gains a small sanity aura. Is it the most efficient speed-run Wolfgang ruins- rush item? No, but who cares? Little touches like that are what give the game its charm and depth.

[Korlie]

3 hours ago, Rellimarual said:

Novelty items are fun, and part of getting to know the game (which is the most fun part) is making and trying new things to see what their possible uses might be.

You're referring to novelty mechanics, not items. There's nothing wrong with novelty mechanics, we're talking about novelty items which are just objectively useless most of the time and thus do not add anything onto the game. The Night Light and Breezy Vest being useless, doesn't make the game more fun. They make the game less fun, because if they were actually viable pieces of content players would have more content to play with.

So your logic is like, the One Man Band is useless most of the time but because when you put it in Hutch it makes sounds it's fine the way it is. This is like the exact kind of logic I mentioned that people use to defend dead content. There's no genuine excuse for leaving an item worthless, for the sake of it. The One Man Band could be buffed and made viable easily, so that instead of it being useless it actually is something the player would purposely want to make. Buffing it doesn't take away the novelty mechanic, it just makes the item itself worth something more then just that novelty mechanic. And like almost every useless item in this game, it could be made viable by singular tweaks in the code.

This game could be so much bigger then it currently is if all the dead content was tweaked. But people are just fine with how it is now and it's sad.

5 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

How do you get ice at all, deep into summer? Find a base that has it stored away? Well, that's going to plummet their ice supply for sure.

It's just a dumb excuse for not balancing actual content. Novelty items being half of the content is just ridiculous. Imagine making a game that's 99% novelty items, is that still an excuse? I don't think so. People seem to be fine with anything, if this is just fine then, and it's really because Klei doesn't do anything to tweak stuff, so what's the point suggesting changes.

Mini glaciers persist until mid to late summer, when I do join servers in that season it's always early in so there's still ice left. If you join mid or late you're pretty much dead since all the ice is gone and trees don't cool you down anymore. Ice doesn't last long though for keeping you cool in summer, I just use it until I find the base.

 

The tweaks to fix a lot of the useless stuff are so relatively simple it could be done as a mod, but community doesn't really seem to care about improving the game. Unless it involves buffing the classic underpowered characters.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

On 03/04/2018 at 2:55 AM, Rellimarual said:

Novelty items are fun, and part of getting to know the game (which is the most fun part) is making and trying new things to see what their possible uses might be. Trial and error. Recently on a public server a new player asked me what the one man band does. I almost didn’t tell him because experimenting with all that stuff, even when I couldn’t find a good use for it was a blast for me. OMB is a great example of how many little surprises there are just when you think you’ve seen everything. Put it inside Hutch with a light bulb and he changes color, makes pretty music and gains a small sanity aura. Is it the most efficient speed-run Wolfgang ruins- rush item? No, but who cares? Little touches like that are what give the game its charm and depth.

Most people won't bother having or using the "charm" things if they will break quickly and require too much investment to actually use (in OMB's case, sanity, **** load of pig skins, gold (this one isn't too big a problem, but it's still a ton of it in the long run) and nightmare fuel). Having a vanity item that isn't easy to craft will just make it something not to strive for at all. And honestly, not balancing an item just proves incompetence or laziness. If you make a game, put things that are needed and that players may find useful, not things that are there to show developers' inability to do good game design. It doesn't have to be boss-level useful, considering its recipe isn't at all boss-tier. Just something that gives it a good reason to use it. Heck, even weather pain now has some reasonable uses because of certain bosses. Ice staff, while not used much, you'd rarely if ever hear anyone say it's a "useless item".

Ruins' relics are a fine example of useless old junk made useful; while it is still an investment, getting sanity from repairing them or smashing them for decent loot not only makes sense game-wise, but actually puts a mechanical game reason for them to be there. A few tweaks and they could be great source of sanity in exchange for rocks when you've run out of things to restore it for being too long in the ruins, but don't want to head out yet, or are in a dangerous sanity issue.

Do you want players to say "oh, that's useless" or "that's a cool/useful item" when playing your game?