new cooling system

[Zarquan]

7 minutes ago, Lutzkhie said:

and heat deletion is now a feature

Heat deletion is essential to the stability of any colony.  If you can't delete heat, then it will build up because the asteroid doesn't radiate heat through the neutronium shell.  This problem is exacerbated by the new volcanoes, which will likely add orders of magnitude more heat than anything else in the game.

I just don't like the drip cooling bug because it enables stuff like the borg cube because it can take the aquatuner and make it do exactly what it is not supposed to be able to do.

 

[Lutzkhie]

especially now that there are lots of heat producing fumaroles, also wheezeworts, AETN works like heat deletion 

[Neotuck]

31 minutes ago, Lutzkhie said:

especially now that there are lots of heat producing fumaroles, also wheezeworts, AETN works like heat deletion 

some of the new geysers delete heat too, like the liquid CO2 geyser

[Lutzkhie]

yeah that one too, time window of CO2 being in a liquid is little low, mostly like itll become gas if not contained in a control environment, but why did they added it? for what purpose will liquid CO2 be?

[Neotuck]

1 minute ago, Lutzkhie said:

yeah that one too, time window of CO2 being in a liquid is little low, mostly like itll become gas if not contained in a control environment, but why did they added it? for what purpose will liquid CO2 be?

drip it into hot water and it cools the water real fast as it evaporates 

[Lutzkhie]

yeah that triggers drip cooling right?
i used that on my previous seed but in a smaller version

[Zarquan]

23 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

some of the new geysers delete heat too, like the liquid CO2 geyser

This doesn't delete heat energy.  It just introduces something with a lower amount of heat.   Adding 1 gram of liquid CO2 at -53 C adds 186.2 J of heat energy (about).

What the liquid CO2 geyser does is it decreases the average temperature by increasing the mass at a lower temperature than the rest of the world. 

This isn't quite the same thing. 

We need ways to dissipate the heat energy since we can't radiate it in to space like every other self-respecting planet and asteroid does.  The drip cooling bug can do it.  So can gas and liquid deletion through buildings.  So can wheezeworts and AETN (but not nearly fast enough).  So can gas crushing (using doors and automation).  Also, so can fixed output temp buildings like the carbon skimmer.

[Lutzkhie]

i dont really like destroying gas, maybe if they reintroduce the "void" that might help 

[Zarquan]

11 minutes ago, Lutzkhie said:

i dont really like destroying gas, maybe if they reintroduce the "void" that might help 

I assume you mean with doors.  Because natural gas generators and hydrogen generators destroy gas too.

[Risu]

The rock and metal geysers are gonna prove difficult to cool as any attempt to cool them will likely cause it to harden into item form.
Possibly infinite storage in one cell of hot items...

Edit: Correction, the fallen solid items will eventually merge together forming a layer of metal.
As it keeps erupting and cooling down it'll eventually bury the geyser and cause it to be overpressure.
 

[Lutzkhie]

hydrogen destroy gas? so thats why CO2 suddenly disappears in my hydrogen chamber on my previous seed
and yes i mean doors 

[Zarquan]

Just now, Lutzkhie said:

hydrogen destroy gas? so thats why CO2 suddenly disappears in my hydrogen chamber on my previous seed
and yes i mean doors 

I meant hydrogen generators.  I fixed it.

So I did some tests on my natural gas generator setup.  Over the course of 1 cycle, the natural gas generator heated up by 20.4 C, which is 10.5 kJ of added heat energy.  Because (this time) I was feeding in 2200 C natural gas, which I heated from 20 C.  By using this system, I destroyed 286.6 kJ more heat energy than I would have otherwise.  I also fed the 20 C natural gas in to a generator in the same conditions (-250 C and in a vacuum).  The temperature changes were the same as with the hot natural gas.

If you were to do the same thing with a hydrogen generator, then you would destroy 511.2 extra kJ of heat energy than if you were to run it at the standard temperature (70 C from an electrolyzer).

[Kuirem]

I think the best cooler they added here isn't the CO² Geyser but the cold Polluted Water Geyser. Even though it comes only at -10.15 °C Polluted Water can absorb a lot more heat than CO² (6 Heat capacity vs 0.846, also much better Thermal Conductivity). Then Polluted Water can be deleted in Fertilizer Synthesizer or Vaporized (if you need water) for some free heat deletion.

[Lutzkhie]

i still can believe their are cold emitting stuff in game

[Risu]

13 minutes ago, Kuirem said:

I think the best cooler they added here isn't the CO² Geyser but the cold Polluted Water Geyser. Even though it comes only at -10.15 °C Polluted Water can absorb a lot more heat than CO² (6 Heat capacity vs 0.846, also much better Thermal Conductivity). Then Polluted Water can be deleted in Fertilizer Synthesizer or Vaporized (if you need water) for some free heat deletion.

Even the hot one (currently called Hot Steam Fumarole for some reason) is acceptable at 30C.
Slush geyser and Liquid CO2 geyser are a bit too cold really. Definitely rivals the nullifiers.
 

[Kuirem]

14 minutes ago, Risu said:

Even the hot one (currently called Hot Steam Fumarole for some reason) is acceptable at 30C.
Slush geyser and Liquid CO2 geyser are a bit too cold really. Definitely rivals the nullifiers.
 

Meh, liquid CO² has such a low heat capacity it won't cool much anyway. Not sure about the Slush though.

I feel like with this update the main problem won't be heat but to find a way to get rid of the tons of water I will use in cooling systems. I think I finally found a use for Algae Terrariums.

[Lutzkhie]

this update also makes plastic a little bit earlier to achieve with leaky oil pressure

[PickPay]

Wouldn't it be better if machinery would add heat to the current temperature of liquid/gas coming in, instead of a fixed output ? Any idea why it hasn't been done yet ?

plus environmental heat

[TheScaryOne]

1 hour ago, Zarquan said:

We need ways to dissipate the heat energy since we can't radiate it in to space like every other self-respecting planet and asteroid does.  The drip cooling bug can do it.  So can gas and liquid deletion through buildings.  So can wheezeworts and AETN (but not nearly fast enough).  So can gas crushing (using doors and automation).  Also, so can fixed output temp buildings like the carbon skimmer.

Dissipating heat into a near vacuum is really hard. It's much easier to dump a bunch of superheated coolant into some kind of munition and launch it from your craft completely (a la Elite Dangerous, or the old void tiles), although harder to sustain. The ISS has two 50' long ammonia filled radiators covered in special emissivity paint. They can handle 14kw of dissipation.

30 minutes ago, Risu said:

Even the hot one (currently called Hot Steam Fumarole for some reason) is acceptable at 30C.
Slush geyser and Liquid CO2 geyser are a bit too cold really. Definitely rivals the nullifiers.
 

At a MAX of 30kg/cycle, assuming 100% uptime and no dormancy period that comes out to a healthy 50g/s. Too little to do anything with, that I can tell.

[Kuirem]

25 minutes ago, PickPay said:

Wouldn't it be better if machinery would add heat to the current temperature of liquid/gas coming in, instead of a fixed output ? Any idea why it hasn't been done yet ?

plus environmental heat

It would make more sense yes but as long as we don't have better way to cool stuff it would make large colonies impossible to maintain.

Why it hasn't been done is anyone guess, might be to reduce lag (because the machine would have to remember the temp of the previous liquid/gas) or it's in the todo list but there are other priorities.

[Lutzkhie]

i hope they add that to future updates
constant 40c is easy to cool down to 20c but it would be better if output temp is based on the input + added heat

[Zarquan]

5 hours ago, TheScaryOne said:

Dissipating heat into a near vacuum is really hard. It's much easier to dump a bunch of superheated coolant into some kind of munition and launch it from your craft completely (a la Elite Dangerous, or the old void tiles), although harder to sustain. The ISS has two 50' long ammonia filled radiators covered in special emissivity paint. They can handle 14kw of dissipation.

Earth isn't covered in such a paint, yet we manage to cool down just fine when the sun goes down. That is because the surface and atmoshpere of the planet is radiating heat in to space (though greenhouse gases are making it less effective and now the planet is heating up).  It happens so naturally that you don't consider how much we rely on it.  The effect is strong enough that insulated water bottles have to have a reflective layer on the inside of the outer shell to really insulate. 

[JonnyMonroe]

Zarq, what you're describing is the same as the petroleum ice machine I've posted on here before. The difference is petro generators can effectively delete far more heat than Nat gas generators (roughly 18 times more per generator).

[Kabrute]

5 hours ago, Zarquan said:

Earth isn't covered in such a paint, yet we manage to cool down just fine when the sun goes down. That is because the surface and atmoshpere of the planet is radiating heat in to space (though greenhouse gases are making it less effective and now the planet is heating up).  It happens so naturally that you don't consider how much we rely on it.  The effect is strong enough that insulated water bottles have to have a reflective layer on the inside of the outer shell to really insulate. 

earth dumps raw atmosphere to delete heat into vacuum, the radiator mentioned above is energy transfer only, so while the earth is dumping hot material into vacuum that is a far cry from trying to transfer just the heat energy itself into same vacuum.

[trukogre]

18 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

earth dumps raw atmosphere to delete heat into vacuum, the radiator mentioned above is energy transfer only, so while the earth is dumping hot material into vacuum that is a far cry from trying to transfer just the heat energy itself into same vacuum.

How do greenhouse gases prevent dumping raw atmosphere into space?