The game is unplayable , that force to loose the game

[Sebastiangperez]

The dupes gets stuck , dont follows the priorities , the pathfinder is missing and they died. 

 

[Lutzkhie]

verify integrity of game files on the game properties

[travaldofan]

try to dig part by part not big chunk DUPES TOO STUPID

[PickPay]

Its a survival game (in development!) that requires monitoring, keep an eye on your Dupes they do get in trouble occasionally.

[Tab1]

I wouldnt say unplayable. But the heat loss bug ruins the game for me

[Ketmol]

3 hours ago, Tab1 said:

I wouldnt say unplayable. But the heat loss bug ruins the game for me

Why?, It is like saying, weezworts ruin the game...

Both are stuff that makes heat less of a problem. 

Just don' t use it if you want the game harder... it is a game, not a psychics simulator..

[Tab1]

31 minutes ago, Ketmol said:

Why?, It is like saying, weezworts ruin the game...

Both are stuff that makes heat less of a problem. 

Just don' t use it if you want the game harder... it is a game, not a psychics simulator..

So how do you cool the polymer press for continous production of plastic of which a lot is required in the end game as well as the petrol power plant??

And thats not even the tip of the ice burg. the liquid cools itself down when travelling thorough pipes. Like I said before IN YOUR FORUM POST that im all for wheezewort and AETN and all the built in features just not these exploitable bugs. Read before posting.

[Ketmol]

16 minutes ago, Tab1 said:

So how do you cool the polymer press for continous production of plastic of which a lot is required in the end game as well as the petrol power plant??

And thats not even the tip of the ice burg. the liquid cools itself down when travelling thorough pipes. Like I said before IN YOUR FORUM POST that im all for wheezewort and AETN and all the built in features just not these exploitable bugs. Read before posting.

I did. My point being. How does it make a game unplayable that for example cooling is not handled correct (for example liquid cools itself where it should not, making it easier to cool down some stuff) 

 

The end result of that happening is just the same as when developers ad machines (the nullifier) to simplify cooling. That cooling becomes less of an issue and easier to deal with. That is not gamebreaking in any way. Like I said it is not a physics simulator. It is a game. That stuff is not handled correct does not break a game. Bugs like corrupted savefiles, huge lag etc would be examples of stuff that would be...

[Hanro50]

5 hours ago, Sebastiangperez said:

The dupes gets stuck , dont follows the priorities , the pathfinder is missing and they died. 

 

Yea...had this happen a few times...BTW you can manually force dupes to go to certain spots if they're being prohibited by a cloud of unbreathable gas. Also some tasks will not be done by a set dupe if he doesn't have a set job. E.g. a dupe won't use the electric grill unless his a chef dupe.

For priorities...Dupes have a soft priority to complete the task they're the closest to unless any other tasks with a bit of a higher priority comes up. 

Lastly dupes are incredibly stupid/suicidal, if they have a chance to kill themselves then they'll probably take it by accident. We're in Alpha after all. I typically just reload when a dupe kicks the bucket due to its own stupidity. I mean I've had it that some of my Architect dupes have accidentally entombed themselves on multiple occasions. 

[Zarquan]

13 hours ago, Ketmol said:

Why?, It is like saying, weezworts ruin the game...

Both are stuff that makes heat less of a problem. 

Just don' t use it if you want the game harder... it is a game, not a psychics simulator..

The developers obviously intended for us to have wheezeworts because if they didn't, wheezeworts wouldn't be in the game.  They intended for us to be able to delete heat with a plant on a small scale for free.  Since they put it in without being hidden behind debug mode or a cheat code, it is not cheating.  It doesn't matter if it isn't realistic or is free to use.  If they wanted it to cost something to operate, they would have.

It would be like playing a first person shooter and refusing to use med packs because they are on the ground and usually cost nothing to use.  "You can't heal instantly for free!"  Totally unrealistic and at no cost to the player, despite the fact that the makers of the game explicitly gave them so that you could use them. 

Things like the borg cube directly go against how the aquatuner is supposed to work as described by the developers.  It's blatantly against the supposed functionality of aquatuners to an absurd degree.  Aquatuners are supposed to have a net zero effect on the total heat in the world by taking the heat out of liquid and putting it in to itself.  You should not be able to destroy heat with the aquatuner at all.  However, the heat deletion bug makes it destroy heat on a massive scale, which is capable of deleting more heat than all of the wheezeworts on the map combined for the mere cost of electricity, which is plentiful and renewable in the mid game.

In short, the developers gave us wheezeworts directly as a resource that is available to us, so it is completely fair and intended.  Aquatuners are not supposed to be able to delete heat, so using them to delete heat is questionable.

[vovik]

33 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

Aquatuners are supposed to have a net zero effect on the total heat in the world by taking the heat out of liquid and putting it in to itself.  You should not be able to destroy heat with the aquatuner at all.

Zarquan, you see, that aquatuners dont delete heat, its drip cooling exploit, but if you want to cool - sure, you can easially do it, just not in big numbers, because it takes a lot of heat to cool, i play and dont actually use that exploit, and having fun. Also, cooling hot water seems too hard to do 

35 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

In short, the developers gave us wheezeworts directly as a resource that is available to us, so it is completely fair and intended.  Aquatuners are not supposed to be able to delete heat, so using them to delete heat is questionable.

Ow, wait, sorry, didnt read the post to the end. But still, game reuires player to create too much heat, and that bug unintentionally decreases hardness ramp. Simple grill creates more heat per unit cooked, etc... 
 

[Zarquan]

23 hours ago, vovik said:

Zarquan, you see, that aquatuners dont delete heat, its drip cooling exploit, but if you want to cool - sure, you can easially do it, just not in big numbers, because it takes a lot of heat to cool, i play and dont actually use that exploit, and having fun. Also, cooling hot water seems too hard to do 

Ow, wait, sorry, didnt read the post to the end. But still, game reuires player to create too much heat, and that bug unintentionally decreases hardness ramp. Simple grill creates more heat per unit cooked, etc... 
 

The game does create too much heat, I agree.  That's why I say its questionable instead of outright cheating.  The drip cooling exploit fills a void in the game.  I personally am of the opinion that buildings that destroy things, like hydrogen generators and fertilizer makers, are more fair, as they don't directly contradict anything the developers have said.  I heat all the water going to my fertilizer makers to near boiling by having it run over thermoregulators before being pumped away.  I keep the natural gas generators colder.  It is exploity, but I feel it is less exploity than the borg cube.  And I use wheezeworts when ever possible.

[SkunkMaster]

11 hours ago, Zarquan said:

 I keep the natural gas generators colder. It is exploity, but I feel it is less exploity than the borg cube.  

Nothing about it is exploity, They are set to have their output same as their temperature. Cooling the generators effectively cools their output. 

I cooled them down to the point where they would drip ice, just to see what would happen.. will try to cool down even further for liquid co2, see if pipes break or not, since it technically doesn't modify any gas, it might be possible to pump out super-cooled co2. 

[Dextrome]

On 3/3/2018 at 4:39 AM, Sebastiangperez said:

The dupes gets stuck , dont follows the priorities , the pathfinder is missing and they died. 

 

Weird, never happened to me before

[Tab1]

On 3/4/2018 at 2:37 AM, Zarquan said:

The developers obviously intended for us to have wheezeworts because if they didn't, wheezeworts wouldn't be in the game.  They intended for us to be able to delete heat with a plant on a small scale for free.  Since they put it in without being hidden behind debug mode or a cheat code, it is not cheating.  It doesn't matter if it isn't realistic or is free to use.  If they wanted it to cost something to operate, they would have.

It would be like playing a first person shooter and refusing to use med packs because they are on the ground and usually cost nothing to use.  "You can't heal instantly for free!"  Totally unrealistic and at no cost to the player, despite the fact that the makers of the game explicitly gave them so that you could use them. 

Things like the borg cube directly go against how the aquatuner is supposed to work as described by the developers.  It's blatantly against the supposed functionality of aquatuners to an absurd degree.  Aquatuners are supposed to have a net zero effect on the total heat in the world by taking the heat out of liquid and putting it in to itself.  You should not be able to destroy heat with the aquatuner at all.  However, the heat deletion bug makes it destroy heat on a massive scale, which is capable of deleting more heat than all of the wheezeworts on the map combined for the mere cost of electricity, which is plentiful and renewable in the mid game.

In short, the developers gave us wheezeworts directly as a resource that is available to us, so it is completely fair and intended.  Aquatuners are not supposed to be able to delete heat, so using them to delete heat is questionable.

THIS. THANK YOU

[Ketmol]

This argument about what is an exploit and what is not seem to come back from time to time in various topics.Using the fixed output temperatures of various machines to your advantage however I have a really hard time to see how people can argue being an exploit.

 

The fixed output temperatures of for example a carbon scimmer is intended. So if you for example use aqua-tuners to cool down crude oil and use water to cool down the heat and then run the hot water through a machine (ie. 40 degree output from carbon-scimmers) with fixed output temperature to "delete" the heat generated from the aqua-tuners then you are simply  using the intended features of the game to your advantage. You are not exploiting any bug.

 

That said the borg-cube is indeed an exploit to the max. I still thought, have a hard time to see how that make the game unplayable. The existence of a cheat in a game (you could look at the borg cube as a cheat because it takes away any type of problem that is heat related)   does not make a game unplayable. You could simply choose to not use it. If you argue that the mere existence of the possibility ruin the game then by that argument all games ever with any type of cheat codes you could use were ruined. All old single player FPS games with pull down command promts where you could get indefinite lives, super mario.. you name it....all those games are by that argument unplayable.

 

The liquid cooling as a result from unintended use of the bug is so small that it does not affect game-play. 

[Tab1]

3 minutes ago, Ketmol said:

This argument about what is an exploit and what is not seem to come back from time to time in various topics.Using the fixed output temperatures of various machines to your advantage however I have a really hard time to see how people can argue being an exploit.

 

The fixed output temperatures of for example a carbon scimmer is intended. So if you for example use aqua-tuners to cool down crude oil and use water to cool down the heat and then run the hot water through a machine (ie. 40 degree output from carbon-scimmers) with fixed output temperature to "delete" the heat generated from the aqua-tuners then you are simply  using the intended features of the game to your advantage. You are not exploiting any bug.

Agreed. But when you are using are dripping the water on the aqua tuners to keep them cool as a method of heat deletion not built in the system then it is an exploit.

[Ketmol]

@Tab1 yes, some 5% or so of the cooling comes from that... unfortunately and un-intended.  But the machine would work perfectly to cool down stuff to almost 100% as effective as now even without the bug. You would simply just need a bit more water around the aqua tuners for them to not run too hot. the major part of the cooling comes from using the fixed output temperatures and the difference in boiling point for clean and polluted water...

Also it is not the dripping water that keeps them at temperature. I only drip water over one of them (I don't remember if i have several aqua-tuners in the video in question but in later versions of the same machines I do), if that was the case the other machines that I do not drip over would run to hot. They don't. It is the water on the floor that keep them cool for the most part and would also be plenty enough. But the liquid have to enter somehow. Sry for so much editing additional stuff into my posts but before anyone else says it. The water on the floor also cools a bit more than it should. Meaning if it didn't I would just need more water in those tiles to keep a steady temperature of the aqua-tuners above boiling temperature for polluted water.

[Saturnus]

1 minute ago, Tab1 said:

Agreed. But when you are using are dripping the water on the aqua tuners to keep them cool as a method of heat deletion not built in the system then it is an exploit.

Again this discussion about what is intended behaviour and exploits. We can only play the game as it is. You can decide yourself what house rules you want to impose on yourself. It is a single player game. The heat deletion bug is unavoidable. If you play the game and move any liquids by any means, that includes using liquid pumps, pitcher pumps, or gravity, you are using the heat deletion bug whether you intend to or not.

[Tab1]

9 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

The heat deletion bug is unavoidable

I would stress on the BUG part, as in not intended

 

22 minutes ago, Ketmol said:

That said the borg-cube is indeed an exploit to the max. I still thought, have a hard time to see how that make the game unplayable. The existence of a cheat in a game (you could look at the borg cube as a cheat because it takes away any type of problem that is heat related)   does not make a game unplayable. You could simply choose to not use it. If you argue that the mere existence of the possibility ruin the game then by that argument all games ever with any type of cheat codes you could use were ruined. All old single player FPS games with pull down command promts where you could get indefinite lives, super mario.. you name it....all those games are by that argument unplayable.

 

And to quote saturnus again THIS BUG IS UNAVOIDABLE. thats why it ruins the game for me. You really should read the posts man.

[Saturnus]

7 minutes ago, Tab1 said:

I would stress on the BUG part, as in not intended

We call it the heat deletion bug. We actually have no idea if it is intended or not. And even if it is unintended it has survived every upgrade since it's first introduction so at this point it is relatively safe to assume it will remain in the game. The effect might be reduced with some optimization but it's reasonable to assume that unless we only want the game to be able to run on super computers and be a real world physics simulator, and therefore not a game at all, then it will remain in the game in some form.

If you don't like to actively use the heat deletion bug to your advantage, then don't. It is your game.

[Tab1]

I dont know why people cant distinguish between heat deletion bug and other heat deletion option the developers put in the game. Like i said countless times before IM FINE with wheezewort and AETN, in fact i love that concept that AETN allows for central air conditioning systems and wheezeworts for localized cooling.

What Im NOT FINE with is this

46 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

The heat deletion bug is unavoidable

I never asked for super realistic physic simulator, life provides enough of that. Im only saying let me use the heat deletion option(wheezeworts AETN) instead of the heat getting auto deleted by this bug. 

and this is just topping on the cake that this bug is becoming a feature lol.

27 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

And even if it is unintended it has survived every upgrade since it's first introduction so at this point it is relatively safe to assume it will remain in the game

[Ketmol]

@Tab1 So what you are saying is that it is not the result of the bug that makes the game unplayable for you (meaning some heat deletion) but rather that it is possible to delete heat in a way that was not intended by the developers?

[Tab1]

Nope. It is the result of the bug that makes the game unplayable for me and here's how that happened. I developed a whole oil cooling system to be connected to an AETN for heat deletion. The radiator went through hot water tanks 50C and power plants 50C and was supposed to go through AETN. I decided to give it a test run to see whether the circuit runs fine without connecting to AETN. and to my great amazement the oil cooled itself down when it went though the circuit and driped back to the oil tank. My generators are about to freeze cus of this crap. I had to automate the circuit to stop the flow at low temps.

All this before connecting to AETNs. 

[Ketmol]

11 minutes ago, Tab1 said:

Nope. It is the result of the bug that makes the game unplayable for me and here's how that happened. I developed a whole oil cooling system to be connected to an AETN for heat deletion. The radiator went through hot water tanks 50C and power plants 50C and was supposed to go through AETN. I decided to give it a test run to see whether the circuit runs fine without connecting to AETN. and to my great amazement the oil cooled itself down when it went though the circuit and driped back to the oil tank. My generators are about to freeze cus of this crap. I had to automate the circuit to stop the flow at low temps.

All this before connecting to AETNs. 

Do you have a screenshot? , a loop of oil going through 50 degree water and 50 degree power-plants without any type of cooling along the way would heat up rather fast. No chance it would freeze.... the liquid cooling that happens in pipes unintentionally is not nearly enough for that... However the nullifier could be or if you piped it through a cold biome with low temperatures... 

 

If you only have a circle running through hot areas and back to a tank it would have higher temperature at dripping in to the tank than going out, regardless of any bug, temperature would increase in the tank. The liquid cooling only works its wonders to a large degree when dripping a lot colder oil over a surface connected to the liquid in the tank itself. And that should not be the case here.