Jump to content

Wins and Fails of this Update


Recommended Posts

So I started this thread, where I praised the ideas and the direction of the occupational update:

I want to summarize where I think Klei has succeeded and failed in their current implementation:

Food Rebalance: WIN

The changes around food are in my opinion the best executed ones. The problem before was that mealwood was only limited by space and the cost of producing better food versus the gains was simply too high. so there was no incentive from the game to ever produce anything other than mealwood. Also processing it was completely worthless. The food rebalance makes the game simply more dynamic and fun by progressively increasing the demand for food production and processing.

If I had to critisize something then it would be that Fried Mushrooms are underpowered for their cost, as digging up slime early to midgame safely requires quite a bit more infrastructure than producing fertilizer and temperate water, not to mention that setting up a sustainable slime production in the lategame is quite a bit of work.

Hats: WIN

I like the hats and the "Wohoo" sound the dupes make when they put them on!

Attribute Progression: WIN

So the attributes went from unplayable, to overpowered to nicely balanced. They disconnected athletics from the supply and tidy jobs and identified strength as being the right attribute to associate with those. The game dupes don't run as fast as before and need more time to level up, which gives us an incentive to build bases that are more efficient for transport in general.

I personally dislike the change that job perks are kept when changeing a job, but a lot of people do, so w/e.

Jobs and Priorities: FAIL

Allthough the UI felt a bit clunky, the inital change to 1-5* was a huge positive for me personally. It meant that I had to manage priorities much less and stuff just got done at the right pace and in the right order by the right dupes. It also meant that the jobs had a purpose. Then you went back to a kind of a compromise, the 1-9 with job related sub priorities. It still maintained the specialization purpose of the jobs, but was less controllable. Somehow you went back to the old, strict 1-9 that completely ignores job assignments, so my miners are delivering, my cooks are mining and my farmers are operating. It is now impossible again to have a dynamic priotisation, where specialized duplicants will prefer to their jobs over others but will help out on other stuff without extreme micromanagement of priorities and restricitions.

It would be very easy to have best of both worlds, a 1-9* prioritisation, where we can set a standard priority ourselves. The strict 1-9ers can then just set it on strict 5 and have the old system, the one's that like specialisation can leave it at soft 5.

Automation Utilities: WIN

The new automation stuff is really cool, the smart batteries, the smart storage, the input on the coal generator etc. I think most of these things were on the wishlist of many players. Very nice!

Conveyors: WIN

The more my base is growing the more I start liking the conveyors. They nicely extend automated transport to solid material from liquid and gaseous. There are some materials that are hard to get to, such as dirt generated by polluted water boiling, and some that are typically not built close to the living area of a base such as fertilizer and hatch coal. Conveyors solve these problems while also adding new possibilities for lategame bases, along with the tubes from the last update.

However they would be even more useful if the maps got bigger. Map generation parameters are really on the top of my personal wishlist!

Steam Turbine: COMPLETE WRECKAGE

Klei somehow managed to switch back and forth from unusable to overpowered multiple times with this thing in only a couple of days. I understand that it is kind of a hard thing to design properly because pressure in ONI doesn't follow any energy related rules that this machine could make use of. However multiple community members already have independendly proposed solutions. I'am personally a big fan of the one, where the turbine converts hot steam into less hot steam and slightly cooled water through a pipe output. In any case it can't be that it destroys massive amounts of steam/water, and it is heart breaking that the power generator, which is in the "Renewable" focus is also the only one that is unsustainable, since the only thing that can be hot enough to get this thing going is magma.

So dear Klei, I would give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you probably have something planned in the future that makes this thing usable/worthwhile, but with the back and forth it seems that you don't really know where you are going with this. Which is fine I guess. But to be honest I'd remove the thing and schedule it for another time. The update is probably better off without it.

Hats: WIN

Did I already mention that I really like hats?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

I disagree with the steam turbine.  A single Aquatuner can boil enough water to run 4 steam turbines

Follow the discussions in the turbine thread and check for the newest changes and discoveries to understand my comment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, clickrush said:

Follow the discussions in the turbine thread and check for the newest changes and discoveries to understand my comment.

My steamturbines are (Edit: no longer)working..
Edit: oops small update, low temp, not working ^^
Hmkay it seems klei wants to force player to use exosuits - magma - steamturbine, something like lategametoy.
When it depends on magma, it could last long, but not forever.
To reach that buildlocation at magmabiome in time, you have to use tubes (cool down the are before).
Not sure, if it's worth the work.
When i don't use tepedizers/aquatunes, to play with stuff, i don't need much energy. I really hope, they force the player not, to follow a specific playstyle.
So funny, i started yesterday to play with SE in debugmode, i waited 250 cycles to be able to construct it.
Today it's "fixxed" lol ^^
image.thumb.png.11ceaaca7e6f3c1fcad595dd8b005683.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This picture is a good illustration of why I hate the hats.

Hassan and Frankie can only be told apart from their hairdo and look pretty much identical with the hats on. Lindsay and Joshua are also the same except for the hairdo however because of Lindsay very big 70s hairdo you can sort of tell her apart from Joshua with hats on but zoom out a bit and you can't anymore. I think they're probably the biggest FAIL of this update.

hatline.png.5c077f90b1fc1351dc7150f90895 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

This picture is a good illustration of why I hate the hats.

Hassan and Frankie can only be told apart from their hairdo and look pretty much identical with the hats on. Lindsay and Joshua are also the same except for the hairdo however because of Lindsay very big 70s hairdo you can sort of tell her apart from Joshua with hats on but zoom out a bit and you can't anymore. I think they're probably the biggest FAIL of this update.

hatline.png.5c077f90b1fc1351dc7150f90895 

I am just the kind of sad person who rarely sees the hats and doesn't care about which dupe is which. I like the gardener hat though. Just because. But I just don't care about the dupes names or looks. So i can't comment that its good or bad. But it isn't a fail of the update, just lack of foresight that some people visually view the dupes, the hat itself doesn't cause the game to break, isn't overpowered etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, BlueLance said:

I am just the kind of sad person who rarely sees the hats and doesn't care about which dupe is which. I like the gardener hat though. Just because. But I just don't care about the dupes names or looks. So i can't comment that its good or bad. But it isn't a fail of the update, just lack of foresight that some people visually view the dupes, the hat itself doesn't cause the game to break, isn't overpowered etc.

I would have preferred different uniforms instead of hats. It wouldn't have messed up the dupes appearance, and it would have been a more global cultural reference to holding a specific job. In a narrow North American cultural mindset wearing hats is metaphorical expression to holding a specific job but uniforms are more globally associated with the same across different cultures. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wins: Jobs in general this is a win.  Stat adjusting and progression adjusting.  Priority system was nice for a bit, still needs improvement.
Fails: Thermal, across the board more bugs than anything, for nothing more than a gene that still doesn't work properly.  Small maps, feels claustrophobic and am no longer comfortable building large bases on stock worlds now.
<Swap out suits for shoes and make Copper, Silver, and Gold snazzy suits for expertise tiers, let them earn pins or medals in certain jobs categories.  Maybe even give the decor bonus to their suits, +5 for copper(Apprentice) +10 for silver (Journeyman) -20 for Forman(jk) +15 for the gold.. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, BlueLance said:

Uniforms/Hats to me they are the same so I wont argue, at least a uniform doesn't mess with the look of a dupe like you said. 

I havnt tried it yet but are hats still visible when you are wearing an exo suit?

Yes they are. You just get the exosuit bubble around the hat.

@Saturnus I totally agree that uniforms would be less obstrusive, but the way the dupes are designed, with their small upper bodies and large heads, you probably wouldn't recognize their job assignments that well, except if you color code them, which in return wouldn't really look that great. Also we already have clothing that would compete with the idea of uniforms, so they made hats.

In the end I really don't care all that much about hats, I just wanted to riff on the patch notes they gave us. They are cute and funny, but obstrusive, big deal.

What I care about the most is the food rebalance WIN, the utilities WIN we got but also the priorities/job assignments FAIL. The turbine is just a source of confusion right now.

But don't get me wrong. ONI is really a special game and it is getting better and more interesting all the time. Klei is doing something very skillful here in terms of game design. They have already proven that they can take on a genre that is by and large a FAIL and make a WIN out of it, such as the survival genre and DS/DST.

The colony simulation genre doesn't have the same issues and there are quite a bunch of games that are really good, but I feel like they managed to bring in all that sciency stuff in a way that is accessible but also sparks creativity in a way that other games don't, which I find truly wonderful and inspiring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Man in the Mist said:

For the mushrooms, there should be a higher level recipe for them.  I was thinking a mushroom pie, but sleet wheat is already used a lot as is.  Perhaps stuffed mushroom would work better.

How about a vegetarian pizza that uses all ingredients. We only need milk from space cows and tomato sauce from tomato sauce geysers!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Le0n1des said:

I think we need some method to herd hatches for meat... Maybe by feeding them something expensive like refined metal or plastic

Absolutely! Any kind of animal type that can be herded would be a great improvement for the game. If only for the ridiculous amounts of custom butchering methods that this community will provide!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, clickrush said:

Absolutely! Any kind of animal type that can be herded would be a great improvement for the game. If only for the ridiculous amounts of custom butchering methods that this community will provide!

The fish works in debug. When you have more then two in same water, they get babys, without making love.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/7/2018 at 6:04 AM, clickrush said:

Jobs and Priorities: FAIL

Allthough the UI felt a bit clunky, the inital change to 1-5* was a huge positive for me personally.

These are actually two separate things.

Regarding priorities, I didn't mind the UI but the initial 1-5/* system was a complete disaster for me. An architect taking over the research table while the scientist took a short break because his build is waiting for gopher to deliver material, then waiting for miner to mine it out is a typical example. The only ones who were doing their job semi-reliably were miners.

It turned to something that started working the last build before they rolled it back and I was starting to like it. But honestly I don't see much of a difference between that 1-5/* and current 1-9, they're both about equally effective. People are just upset too much to see duplicants not doing their jobs and don't remember that under 1-5/* they did the same, except there was much bigger penalty if it happened.

Jobs are a WIN in my opinion, even with the old priority system. And priority system itself ... well, it's awaiting update. The attempt has failed but current priorities are still acceptable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Kasuha said:

These are actually two separate things.

Regarding priorities, I didn't mind the UI but the initial 1-5/* system was a complete disaster for me. An architect taking over the research table while the scientist took a short break because his build is waiting for gopher to deliver material, then waiting for miner to mine it out is a typical example. The only ones who were doing their job semi-reliably were miners.

It turned to something that started working the last build before they rolled it back and I was starting to like it. But honestly I don't see much of a difference between that 1-5/* and current 1-9, they're both about equally effective. People are just upset too much to see duplicants not doing their jobs and don't remember that under 1-5/* they did the same, except there was much bigger penalty if it happened.

Jobs are a WIN in my opinion, even with the old priority system. And priority system itself ... well, it's awaiting update. The attempt has failed but current priorities are still acceptable.

I don't understand what you are saying here. The 1-5* with jobs and 1-9 with jobs is vastly different. The situation you describe above didn't happen to me. I opted out all duplicants from stuff like resarch, tidy, art, operating, cooking etc. and only the "all" option for mining, building and supply.

The first group of tasks are all things that are important and mostly continuous but also gated by availability either by not being full time jobs or by being only available through stations, so you want them to only be done by dupes that are specialized in them.

Mining, supply and building however are more open jobs that you can scale up granularily by just adding more things to mine supply and build.

Like this the 1-5* automatically distributes the tasks to the right dupes. The "steady, gated jobs" dupes first did their farming, cooking and so on but then went on to help the more scalable tasks, the miners, suppliers and builders. Also those miners suppliers and builders always automatically preferred their job related tasks, which they are specialized in.

This fluent but effective task distribution isn't really possible anymore without mad micromanagement of priotisation and opt in/out. And I don't mean just doing the settings once, I mean constantly switching them around.

In the grand scheme of things all of this don't matter all that much in terms of pure efficiency as most of the time you aren't all that pressured to progress super fast in ONI, but they just don't feel as nice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do like the idea of jobs, but think the roles are a little too narrow. Would really, really love it if dupes could be assigned (at least!) two jobs for some flexibility. This would reduce a lot of hat dancing in the early game and for smaller colonies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Kasuha said:

These are actually two separate things.

Regarding priorities, I didn't mind the UI but the initial 1-5/* system was a complete disaster for me. An architect taking over the research table while the scientist took a short break because his build is waiting for gopher to deliver material, then waiting for miner to mine it out is a typical example. The only ones who were doing their job semi-reliably were miners.

It turned to something that started working the last build before they rolled it back and I was starting to like it. But honestly I don't see much of a difference between that 1-5/* and current 1-9, they're both about equally effective. People are just upset too much to see duplicants not doing their jobs and don't remember that under 1-5/* they did the same, except there was much bigger penalty if it happened.

Jobs are a WIN in my opinion, even with the old priority system. And priority system itself ... well, it's awaiting update. The attempt has failed but current priorities are still acceptable.

The simple fix to the problems you described was for Klei to add more delivery and clean tasks that are related to jobs tasks. Like deliver(build) for building and deliver(farming) for plants. This would have been a background change, players would have only noticed that dupes were working better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, The Arcanian said:

The simple fix to the problems you described was for Klei to add more delivery and clean tasks that are related to jobs tasks. Like deliver(build) for building and deliver(farming) for plants. This would have been a background change, players would have only noticed that dupes were working better.

That's what I'm talking about, that's what they actually tried to do the last build before the rollback. And it looked like it worked, I was starting to like it. They still pulled the lever, to even my surprise. If they did so after such investment of work time, it means the statistics they collect told them the system was considerably worse than flat 1-9 regardless how people now claim they liked it.

Yes, the current priority system is up for an overhaul with jobs now. I hope we'll get it soon and we'll get something good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.

×
×
  • Create New...