Why the Forge is such a failure

[Psych3]

Hi. Yes, the title is a bit hard. 
I'll explain that later.

Just to introduce, i'm a 25 player from Fr, playing mostly with 1-2 friends since the game showed up on steam.
I've played a lot before the Rog Expansion, then a lot on DST with both of these friends, and I've just started returning to this game with my current girlfriend, who's like a total newb to this. ( and i shouldn't be considered as someone else either)
I'm not a pro about english, so i'll expect u guyz to be kind with my grammar. I'll do my best : 
 

 

We discovered the Forge around of the middle of November, and it was a total suprise.
I didn't expected the game to go this way, and to get theses kind of updates. Well done about of that.

Now, why is it a failure for us, and i think, for most of yours players ? 

Do'nt Starve, and don't starve together, EVEN IF they can be played with random peoples, are part of a gameplay who's known as being HARD. 
We honestly didn't even thought about playing with people we weren't knewing. 

6 players. Not 3, not 4, 6. How do U expect us to find 6 friend to play this ?
I know 2 people out of 3 peoples who own DST. 2 of them got it because of me

So we're basically forced to play with randoms. Here come the main problem. 

But after all, why not.

2nd problem : The language 
We are French. We are able to speak english, but we don't know Ru for exemple. Why RU ? Did u opened to server's list theses days ?  RU ! RU  EVERYWHERE. speaking a language we can't even read cause they're not using the same letters.... 
I won't even argue, cause i know there's plenty versions about of 'Why Ru people can't speak english as everyone else do even when its not ur mother language" and i've already choose my answer since a long time : If  I can avoid them, that's for the best. Gimme that option, thanks.

When did U thought it would be a nice idea to throw RU with people using latin letters, seriously ? this coupled to a matchmaking who doesn't take Ping in account ? Gosh....

So after many try and fails with the QM system, I started to try to browse servers by myself, in the hope I'll find somes kind people to explain me the basics and to play with, so my gf could joins us later, after i've meet somes peoples. Here the second problem when i opened the serv list : 

 

LV50 + only
Random RU characters i can't read
LV25 + only
Random RU characters i can't read
Random RU characters i can't read
LV30+ only
LV 50+ only
LV7896906960305+ douchebags only 
Random RU characters i can't read
Random RU characters i can't read.

I think u got it.

I've tryed to join somes even if I was around the 10 levels (after my multiples try) and my GF, 3 . 
Most of the time, got insulted for doing so. 
Once or twice, people launched and we got overwhelmed by boarillas so same , insults, everyone leave and we don't even know what we were supposed to do.
Honestly, i have read some guides, and for a beginner ( I'm easily overwhelmed by frogs for exemple...yeah i know...), the servers are just to laggy and the kite is just UNPOSSIBLE, and this especially when u're used to a dedicated server on local who doesnt seems that laggy.

I've said it during years on the steam community, and i'l keep going on : DST still got somes networks issues. Its not us, its just unpossible. U go on a PUBG game, no problem, run fines. U go on ark, who's like writed with feets , even there, its ok .  U run a Dota and it work. Then u want to play DST and that's just so laggy....there's clearly a problem, even if I have 0 ideas from where it comes. Its just an issue u guys never really investigated, like the Bluetooth's Sound Bug on the pocket edition, who's been here since it got out.

 

So, back to our sheeps, my gf and the Forge, well,  in fact, she doesn't even want to hear anything about the Forge Again
More than that, she doesnt even want to hear about playing this game into any form with randoms peoples again. 
Thanks for that Klei.
And before them, thanks for that, beloved community. I've never expected that to come from this game. Really.

So , next time, KLEI,  if u could : 

- Add language option 

- Add tutorial for us, poor newbs who wanted to give a try to that game.

-Add a ready button, so the game don't launch when u choose a character. Got insulted for that too on my first game. How could i know ?  

-Add leavers's sanctions. That's such a pain. I'm forced to go QM cause of my level, and it seems that i need to put a hundred game when people just leave when boarillas are incoming, just to have the right to play the game without leavers.

For the Community :

I know this sounds a lot like " SALT SALT SALT" but I hope that u guys realize this is a complete failure for any casual player who doesn't want to put 1 hour into a server's list , in the hope he'll find a game where he will be able to play without troll/leavers and without being insulted because of his level.
I'm actually 12. I've never won. I've never meet a lv20+ guy who wasn't acting like a ******. I don't think i'm gonna give it a try again. Not this year, not the next. That's sad.

U should be happy that peoples try the game. U shouldn't act like the community seems to do. Check reddit. Check the steam discussions. 

DST is much more toxic that any F2P involving PVP's aspect right now. That's not a good thing for the game's future. Just saying.

TL;DR :
The forge is way too much toxic for new players.
The community wasn't like this when i left the game, and now, it seems that she's not deserving it anymore. Please wake up, there's people on the other end of your screen. Also, Klei should add some regions restrictions for thoses events , and maybe that's time to fix the fews bugs still here since the first days, like the input delay u can't have in a game where U need to kite ,or the sound's bugs on the P-E when using bluetooth.

TY

[Tukmens]

Again Europeans are blaming Russian players for everything. I guess it's mostly because Western propaganda has brainwashed you into hating them. I'm level 87 in the game and Russian players were the least annoying thing in the game. The most annoying thing is low level losers who joins to 40+ servers, doesn't listen to anyone, and then rage quits because everyone is angry on them. Almost none of them were Russians but English speaking guys. I would tell it's fault of Klei Devs, they must have introduced a vote kick system.

Why can't Russians speak good English? Look at their alphabet, it's a lot harder to learn a completely different language than for example 2 Germanic languages that are almost similar.

Also most likely you joined Russian servers with quick match if there were so many of them. So this is again fault of Klei for not implementing language selection.

Why do you need tutorials? I learned it by playing with low level noobs and nobody was salty. If you expect to got through tutorial and then join 50+ games, that's not how it works.

About ready button and leavers sanctions I totally agree. But sanction leaver only if he's the first one to leave from team.

Also.. You said that you're level 12, but servers that are meant for 50+, 40+ etc. are full with Russians. So it's interesting how do you know that without joining them and ruining experience for players that wants to play only with certain level players.

[Soulk]

We are not all bad ppl, i am lvl 130 and i dont have problem playing with low lvl, in fact i teach them, the thing is i cant handle ppl who doesnt listen that when you advice something they just say "I KNOW WHAT I #$#"%$#" DO" so that kind of ppl deserve no good treat from me.

[Arcwell]

The matchmaking system isn't too great, but I can't really blame Klei for that.

Using the browse servers option helps for finding good games. I've only had a few games with language barriers, but even in those games the players weren't an issue.

It also helps to create/join servers with passwords (then put the password in the title/description) to avoid people from Quick Play. That filters out a lot of the frustration I get when trying to find a good game.

[Jynn]

I had no problem with language barriers, quickmatching onto chinese / russian teams. We still did just fine and managed to understand one another well enough with their limited english and 'yes' or 'no' answers.

If you are having serious problems, search for passworded servers that have the password in the description. 

[TemporaryMan]

There are plenty of newbie-friendly, 10+, and 15+ servers here.  If you don't see one, make one.  They're all dedicated servers hosted by Klei, doesn't cost you a thing.

[Dekay]

I’m just below level 70 and it’s typical that even when I join 50+ lobbies there will be at least one hotshot there who defines their in game worth by trash talking you for every mistake you make, which at my level isn’t very many. That said, most of the higher level players I’ve seen are pretty forgiving if you take their advice, it’s the newbs that join and take all the wrong gear and then won’t listen to anyone on the team telling them to swap with another player that makes mid and upper level players quit in disgust.

Also when you understand a bit more about how the game is played it’s not necessary to speak the same language because there are plenty of visual cues as to what ults players are using.

[Psych3]

11 hours ago, Tukmens said:

Again Europeans are blaming Russian players for everything. I guess it's mostly because Western propaganda has brainwashed you into hating them. I'm level 87 in the game and Russian players were the least annoying thing in the game. The most annoying thing is low level losers who joins to 40+ servers, doesn't listen to anyone, and then rage quits because everyone is angry on them. Almost none of them were Russians but English speaking guys. I would tell it's fault of Klei Devs, they must have introduced a vote kick system.

Why can't Russians speak good English? Look at their alphabet, it's a lot harder to learn a completely different language than for example 2 Germanic languages that are almost similar.

Also most likely you joined Russian servers with quick match if there were so many of them. So this is again fault of Klei for not implementing language selection.

Why do you need tutorials? 

Because i have limited time To play because of something called work and I dont want To waste 1 hour to find a game, and another one to understand the basics.

To be honest, I haven't seen such western propaganda against ru. Maybe against putin, but ru, no.

The things is speaking english la not something i like but I do it so peoples have a chance To understand me. I dont give a **** that ru letters aren't the same.

Its their problems.  I'm speaking a language that most of people understand and they should do the same. Yeah theirs letters are strange, its not our fault, it concern ONLY THEM.

Maybe its not propaganda but just the fact that on most video game, RU are Always on a side cause they dont want To bother speaking english. Everyone does but them.

I won't even speak about the trolling culture, that's a way of life there. ( u got it, i dont like them when we're speaking of videogames ) 

I play since many years , there is a things with Ru .  It's been a long time I'm not even trying To argue against them anymore,  i just want an option : To avoid them. Is that so hard to understand ? 

Couln't they get fun without forcing me to join them when i cant understand them ? 

 

To speak about the 10 levels servers, U definitly didnt tryed :

Never a password ( si full RU, ty QM ) , full most of the time, most of the peoples dont know what they're doing and the game is done within 5 min.

There is about ten 50+ servers for one "all welcome" and I think U know that. 

I have trouble with hosting on this game, its old and I already reported this bug on the steam forum years ago. It feels laggy.

More than when i join one with a good ping.

Dev dont care about that and I got it.

 

I am agree To listen, I just didnt got the chance. U're not honest in your message. U act like if i was a troll when im just a beginner.

As arcwell said, there is a lot of frustration trying To find a game. More than there should be. And lf  i writed this, that's because frustration > pleasure.

I wont try again, this game is a pain for me, in the case u didnt got it. I'm just giving feedback.

Levels are only meaning that u failed a lot and got somes skins , and peoples act like real douches.  I prefer run classic.

 Maybe me and my gf  are tards unable To group.

Or maybe there le indeed a bunch of players who Forgot about the forge, because it is such frustrating.

And maybe most of them didnt bothered To come there To post. Just saying.

 

Have fun playing guys.

 

 

 

 

[Soulk]

27 minutes ago, Psych3 said:

Because i have limited time To play because of something called work and I dont want To waste 1 hour to find a game, and another one to understand the basics.

To be honest, I haven't seen such western propaganda against ru. Maybe against putin, but ru, no.

The things is speaking english la not something i like but I do it so peoples have a chance To understand me. I dont give a **** that ru letters aren't the same.

Its their problems.  I'm speaking a language that most of people understand and they should do the same. Yeah theirs letters are strange, its not our fault, it concern ONLY THEM.

Maybe its not propaganda but just the fact that on most video game, RU are Always on a side cause they dont want To bother speaking english. Everyone does but them.

I won't even speak about the trolling culture, that's a way of life there. ( u got it, i dont like them when we're speaking of videogames ) 

I play since many years , there is a things with Ru .  It's been a long time I'm not even trying To argue against them anymore,  i just want an option : To avoid them. Is that so hard to understand ? 

Couln't they get fun without forcing me to join them when i cant understand them ? 

 

To speak about the 10 levels servers, U definitly didnt tryed :

Never a password ( si full RU, ty QM ) , full most of the time, most of the peoples dont know what they're doing and the game is done within 5 min.

There is about ten 50+ servers for one "all welcome" and I think U know that. 

I have trouble with hosting on this game, its old and I already reported this bug on the steam forum years ago. It feels laggy.

More than when i join one with a good ping.

Dev dont care about that and I got it.

 

I am agree To listen, I just didnt got the chance. U're not honest in your message. U act like if i was a troll when im just a beginner.

As arcwell said, there is a lot of frustration trying To find a game. More than there should be. And lf  i writed this, that's because frustration > pleasure.

I wont try again, this game is a pain for me, in the case u didnt got it. I'm just giving feedback.

Levels are only meaning that u failed a lot and got somes skins , and peoples act like real douches.  I prefer run classic.

 Maybe me and my gf  are tards unable To group.

Or maybe there le indeed a bunch of players who Forgot about the forge, because it is such frustrating.

And maybe most of them didnt bothered To come there To post. Just saying.

 

Have fun playing guys.

 

 

 

 

I do get your point but, dont blame klei or community, thats how online games are nowadays, every game you find trolls, elitist ppl, etc.

Now some advices for you, go to Custom match, set a server for you and your GF, set in title only ppl under 20 if high lvl player join is cuz they want to, or maybe like me that i join low lvl servers to teach ppl and find new friends.

WIth that you should find moderate games, also state on chat that both you and uoyr GF are learning as every of the Sub 20 lvl are too.

 

[Psych3]

DSt community wasn't like this when I left. I can blame Klei about forgetting about basics : language filter, ping filter, level filter, and i'm speaking ABOUT QM, then they wasted time implementing secondary features, like achievements.

The forge could be interesting if u didn't needed to spend 1-2 hours to make a 15-30 min game. 

About our community, i think everyone could take a part about of this. Focusing on people who're able to speak the universal language (english) , this is really going worst and worst, and if noone react, it won't improve.
I don't want a report button. I doesn 't even want sanctions about peoples insulting others, or about trolls. I just want people to realize they're actually playing with this game's playerbase in the future. And that's really dangerous.

If the player base can't replenish , u'll have fun until most of the veteran left, after insulting every new player, and after making them leave the game too.

If u think that can't happen, U should take a look onto Heroes of the Storm community. The game's great with friends, but the thing is the same than in DST : someone failing could cost the game for 4 other peoples. The community got worst and worst, to the point the editor got no over choice than to do a melting pot with every players, from every country, in order to make a game launchable without waiting for about 10 minutes.

The game 's almost died, when it got regular updates, when it got a fantastic background, when the gameplay is just good. 

 Just because the community is too toxic to make the player's base able to replenish.
So there is not enough players, and people actually stop play it because it take too long to launch a game. That's sad.
I keep playing it, but i know i can't launch a game, except in the early evening, because it will take too long otherly.

And that's just 1 exemple out of billions of game who got the same problem.

Like u said, toxicity is a thing u can meet with many many games. But ask urself : Did u got many games, that when u ask a friend about playing it , he answer something like " well, could be fun, but i don't even want to bother trying" because the forge doesn't mean fighting in a arena for them, for exemple. It just mean 1-2 hours searching for a game, then 20 min getting insulted, then 30 min to calm down before u actually go play something else.


Finally , kely didn't gave us intersting options to host. Hosting just mean i'lll wait longer so people join, its also mean i can't kick someone who join but won't speak my language, for exemple, its also mean, i have 0 option to exclude people lagging for exemple, or having the bad habit to leave a game more than 1/2 time as the first leaver.
Hosting could be interesting if we got somes filters options, and not only this password's thing. For now, its just another waste of time.

 

The worst part of that is that 'im pretty sure that the game in itself could provide loads of fun. 
The way u launch a game just got so poor features

[fimmatek]

49 minutes ago, Psych3 said:

There is about ten 50+ servers for one "all welcome" and I think U know that. 

I have trouble with hosting on this game, its old and I already reported this bug on the steam forum years ago. It feels laggy.

When you create a Forge lobby, you don't practically host it because every Forge world is hosted at Klei (so that ppl cannot use server mods or console commands to cheat). So just go and make a lobby, there won't be a difference regarding lag wether you host it or not. 

About the "50+" servers, maybe we are just unlucky, but it's usually hard to me to find a game with a level high enough, there are planty ones for beginners but not that much for (really) experienced players. But again, maybe we just have pech.

Btw, I think everyone has much better chances to find a fitting game withouth the quickmatch. 

[Psych3]

I know its hosted by Klei. That's why its weird that when i'm the host, its laggy, and when i join, its ok.

I'm playing with ethernet to a 4G modem (not a phone, a real device intented to do that, with its own connection) . It provides me better internet than the regular ADSL/ VDSL thing, for exemple i  have like 1mega up / 2 to 3 down. I can't have more than 1 down with VDSL cause i'm not living in a city. I also haven't the ability to get fiber.
Its split between 3 computers, and i'm actually only using 1 while playing, both other being here due to other goals, such as watching Tv while on bed, or working.

my gf is using ADSL and got an average or 2.5 down. 

My other friend is using Fiber, and he got the same problem when he's hosting.

That doesnt make me unable to play other games much more intensive on networks, such as PUBG or HOS, and this, even with a Discord up. I can do a speed test for u just to prove that i'm not lying about my connection.
I also got some control on my firewall, and I think i'm doing actually better than the average about of IT knoweldge, even if i'm not god.

Screen is about how do servers list looks RIGHT NOW U shouldn't take pings into account because i'm actually using my network for something else.

[landromat]

35 minutes ago, Psych3 said:

I know its hosted by Klei. That's why its weird that when i'm the host, its laggy, and when i join, its ok.

I'm playing with ethernet to a 4G modem (not a phone, a real device intented to do that, with its own connection) . It provides me better internet than the regular ADSL/ VDSL thing, for exemple i  have like 1mega up / 2 to 3 down. I can't have more than 1 down with VDSL cause i'm not living in a city. I also haven't the ability to get fiber.
Its split between 3 computers, and i'm actually only using 1 while playing, both other being here due to other goals, such as watching Tv while on bed, or working.

my gf is using ADSL and got an average or 2.5 down. 

My other friend is using Fiber, and he got the same problem when he's hosting.

That doesnt make me unable to play other games much more intensive on networks, such as PUBG or HOS, and this, even with a Discord up. I can do a speed test for u just to prove that i'm not lying about my connection.
I also got some control on my firewall, and I think i'm doing actually better than the average about of IT knoweldge, even if i'm not god.

Screen is about how do servers list looks RIGHT NOW U shouldn't take pings into account because i'm actually using my network for something else.

i think Klei server is just too far from you, that's why you have bad ping

Also, you can use Alt + PrtSc ro make screenshot of active application

[Psych3]

Klei's server are definitly too far from me. This issue isn't a new one and will keep going until Klei buy somes servers all across the world, and not only in somes country.

I would prefer to be able to host on a dedicated, since they never really worked on a proper hosting way since DST came out , imho.

Anyway, i'm not playing right now, so i've got some network activity who could lower my ping. I usually found somes servers around 40-60 ping. 
The fact is this list is full of russian servers and high level servers. U can't find servers open to everyone if u want a password ( ie no qm)

 

 

[landromat]

low level people usally create their own servers without password, Or make 10+ server english only and play

[Soulk]

I would dream playing with ping lower than 50, i usually play with 180-250 ping and i do pretty good lvl 130 already with 42/42 farming deathless runs very often

[Psych3]

1 hour ago, landromat said:

low level people usally create their own servers without password, Or make 10+ server english only and play

And I've gived a try as explained before. Thanks the wonderfull QM system in place who's here just to make sure every game without a password get trolled, that's not an option.

[Tukmens]

6 hours ago, Psych3 said:

I know its hosted by Klei. That's why its weird that when i'm the host, its laggy, and when i join, its ok.

I'm playing with ethernet to a 4G modem (not a phone, a real device intented to do that, with its own connection) . It provides me better internet than the regular ADSL/ VDSL thing, for exemple i  have like 1mega up / 2 to 3 down. I can't have more than 1 down with VDSL cause i'm not living in a city. I also haven't the ability to get fiber.
Its split between 3 computers, and i'm actually only using 1 while playing, both other being here due to other goals, such as watching Tv while on bed, or working.

my gf is using ADSL and got an average or 2.5 down. 

My other friend is using Fiber, and he got the same problem when he's hosting.

That doesnt make me unable to play other games much more intensive on networks, such as PUBG or HOS, and this, even with a Discord up. I can do a speed test for u just to prove that i'm not lying about my connection.
I also got some control on my firewall, and I think i'm doing actually better than the average about of IT knoweldge, even if i'm not god.

Screen is about how do servers list looks RIGHT NOW U shouldn't take pings into account because i'm actually using my network for something else.

Then there's a different problem. Closest klei server from me is at stable 83 ping and I've had short lag bursts only few times, but never there has been constant lag or lag so bad that it breaks the experience. Your provider might be an issue. 1mb/s down, seriously, I thought that such a slow speeds doesn't exist anymore. I have summer house in the countryside where I use 4g modem as well and my speed is no lower than 30mb/s down and 15mb/s up and I pay 19 euros/month.

[Soulk]

1 hour ago, Tukmens said:

Then there's a different problem. Closest klei server from me is at stable 83 ping and I've had short lag bursts only few times, but never there has been constant lag or lag so bad that it breaks the experience. Your provider might be an issue. 1mb/s down, seriously, I thought that such a slow speeds doesn't exist anymore. I have summer house in the countryside where I use 4g modem as well and my speed is no lower than 30mb/s down and 15mb/s up and I pay 19 euros/month.

Here in venezuela my conecition is less than 1mb, i can still play with 180-250 ping so lag its only excuses for me

[clri]

10 hours ago, Tukmens said:

Then there's a different problem. Closest klei server from me is at stable 83 ping and I've had short lag bursts only few times, but never there has been constant lag or lag so bad that it breaks the experience. 

This is very amusing to me because I live in the Australia region, and I'd consider 83 ping /really/ good, when 200 ping is my usual minimum latency to any server (that's level-gated). 250 - 300 ping is usual for me, and still perfectly playable.

[Amber Mozart]

if it's that bad as you sai how is it possible that when i was lvl 1 i found rooms where i could play? Don't tell me i was that lucky. I'm lvl 97 now, i didn't get it by playing solo.

[Lumina]

On 26/11/2017 at 10:50 PM, Psych3 said:

-Add a ready button, so the game don't launch when u choose a character. Got insulted for that too on my first game. How could i know ?  

This is a problem, yes. You should be able to cancel before starting, if for example, two players choose the same character in the same time.

 

I'm not sure i agree about toxicity, i played various time either alone, with group of 6 people, or with group of 4 and some random, and most of the time it was fine, even when losing.

Also, there is a french community on discord. I think this can solve most of your problem with the game since you can be guided, have help and advice, play with people speaking the same language, and even have vocal.

 

[brbrmensch]

On 11/27/2017 at 3:37 PM, Psych3 said:

There is about ten 50+ servers for one "all welcome" and I think U know that. 

 

On 11/27/2017 at 12:50 AM, Psych3 said:

We discovered the Forge around of the middle of November, and it was a total suprise.

well although it is true, i had no problem finding or creating room with my lvl 1 friend this weekend, i also see "noobs figuring game out" rooms quite often

the real boss of forge is miscommunication, including language boarior barrier, so the best way i know so far is to create a room with password in description to avoid quick-match-players and non-your-language-speakers

[Spaartan]

On 27/11/2017 at 9:46 PM, Psych3 said:

 

Don't worry, it's usually worse, you are actually lucky to have a good ping (or at least told that you have). If you check some 50+ servers it's full of low levels occasionally. Russians are actually not bad, they listen and are quite nice. They know when to do what and get the things they need.

What I'm saying is, it's not as bad as you think.

[YourBlossom]

It's still a part of fun to play with the random players right? At least I'm enjoying it.