[Lore] Are we the Bad Guys?

[WilliamGreywind]

So I've been looking at these lines that Battlemaster Pugna says during the forge and I'm really wondering, are we, in defeating Battlemaster Pugna and his champions, only helping to propagate the problems that seems to be happening in Don't Starve's lore? By fighting Battlemaster Pugna and winning, are we ending up advancing the goals of Charlie... and Them?

Also, obligatory pop culture reference.

[RancorSnp]

Yes we definitely are, clearly these guys rebelled against Them and found a way to live "peacefully" (but training for war) outside of Their influence but we are forcing them to come back.
Question is WHY are we fighting at all. Clearly we do not have all that much of a choice here  if we were just put here and trying to survive. But it would still be nice to know how did we end up in the arena etc. 
Hopefully that info will come in form of amazing puzzles at forge release date. 

[Plebgod]

i think pugna is mistaking the survivors for someone else

[Parusoid]

 

[BiddoBams]

The way I see it: The ancient gateway in the forge is part of a series of gateways that eventually leads to the Hub, which is where the Shadow Throne is located. The Forge is the first step to getting closer to the hub and Pugna doesn't trust us to have what it takes to go and destroy the throne; battle hardened and forged by war, Pugna could assume we're there to stop them, or we'll fail.

That's what I feel would happen. Why would there be a gateway in the Forge that goes back to the mainland Constant? The Throne isn't hidden there. edit: nvm it is linked to ours, my bad. Think back to Adventure mode in vanilla DS. We're going to have to travel through different worlds in the Constant, until we get to the throne and stop Charlie once and for all. (and save the world)

Also, Klei did mention they wanted to add an adventure mode to DST, and this seems like a perfect fit. Events every so often that take us deeper down the rabbit hole, ultimately ending up with a boss fight against MEGA CHARLIE.

[RancorSnp]

31 minutes ago, Ashkain said:

... ultimately ending up with a boss fight against MEGA CHARLIE.

I need that. I need that so much

[fimmatek]

1 hour ago, Ashkain said:

The way I see it: The ancient gateway in the forge is part of a series of gateways that eventually leads to the Hub, which is where the Shadow Throne is located. The Forge is the first step to getting closer to the hub and Pugna doesn't trust us to have what it takes to go and destroy the throne; battle hardened and forged by war, Pugna could assume we're there to stop them, or we'll fail.

That's what I feel would happen. Why would there be a gateway in the Forge that goes back to the mainland Constant? The Throne isn't hidden there. Think back to Adventure mode in vanilla DS. We're going to have to travel through different worlds in the Constant, until we get to the Hub and stop Charlie once and for all. (and save the world)

Also, Klei did mention they wanted to add an adventure mode to DST, and this seems like a perfect fit. Events every so often that take us deeper down the rabbit hole, ultimately ending up with a boss fight against MEGA CHARLIE.

I would aggree it so much, but there are something thatmakes me think the Forge's Gateway leads back to the Constant anyways. First, it is the constant, the one unchanging, so it is supposed to stay. And second, there are some characterquotes about the Gateway that supports this:

ON = "Let's head back to camp, Lucy.", (Woodie)

GENERIC = "It is linked to our Gateway, but inactive on this side.", (Wickerbottom)

So I assume that we will head back to the Constant and from the Atrium, the Gate will connect to a new world (second event), then we come back and so forth. 

But I fully agree with the DST adventure mode, I love it a lot!

[BiddoBams]

Just now, fimmatek said:

I would aggree it so much, but there are something thatmakes me think the Forge's Gateway leads back to the Constant anyways. First, it is the constant, the one unchanging, so it is supposed to stay. And second, there are some characterquotes about the Gateway that supports this:

ON = "Let's head back to camp, Lucy.", (Woodie)

GENERIC = "It is linked to our Gateway, but inactive on this side.", (Wickerbottom)

So I assume that we will head back to the Constant and from the Atrium, the Gate will connect to a new world (second event), then we come back and so forth. 

But I fully agree with the DST adventure mode, I love it a lot!

Ah yeah, I figured as much. Pugna said he wanted to take the hub and destroy the throne, in whatever way they can. Which would probably result in them destroying most of the overworld.

The hub being the Atrium fits well actually!

But it begs to raise a question, why did the gateway lead to the Forge, only to return back to the Atrium? Is there something we need there? Or is it a simple mistake? Or maybe, someone is training us.

[zaxomik]

Pugna says about our survivors that they are "Gatekeepers"

Maybe there was some kind of group with a goal to protect the gateway and the Hub to prevent rebels from attacking the throne.

And I think, that the "gatekeeper" Is Fuelweaver(or Fuelweavers) and we were misunderstood with them (not THEM)

There is more: "only to be felled by the Throne's lapdogs." lapdogs of the throne. He thinks we work for THEM/Charlie.

Let's go back to fuelweaver fight, once defeated he can say "You deserve this" or "You've made your choice"

He was trying to stop us from entering cuz he knew about Pugna and Forge, He probably knew that we will defeat him and his warriors

But if we defeat all of rebellion who will keep THEM/Charlie at bay?

[Plebgod]

so the fuelweaver was protecting pugna?

[zaxomik]

Maybe not only Pugna, maybe there are others that can help fight THEM/Charlie. We know for sure he was protecting someone, or something.

And I don't think he is protecting Charlie, he's quote: "I will save you." suggest he is not the bad guy, he wants to help... In his own way  

 

 

[zaxomik]

Or, If the fuelweaver is bad guy, and he is gate keeper, He wanted to stop us from jumping into Forge and unleashing Pugna

[Auth]

Well, in the “What Lies Beyond” trailer, we see the portal, with Charlie with it, but no other survivors. Maybe she was programming it (or whatever) to lead to the forge so we could kill Pugna’s troops, seeing as she’s worked together with us before, like with the fuelweaver. We simply only weaken it, it’s Charlie that finishes it off. But she probably wants to remain in power, and unlike Maxwell, she wasnt so foolish as to have a literal open door leading to her.

[1v0]

From all of his lines I think that "the hub" is a palce where many realms conncent to one . Punga and his warriors were send to another realm by the one on the throne (it might be Maxwell or Charlie or even someone else before DS timeline) . By activating the portal we revivied the connection to the other realm/realms . So now we defend the portal to our realm (the DST world where we play survival mode) because they want to bring down the one that is on the throne , they feel betrayed by the throne (begin send to the fire and stone realm) .

Thou I'm not sure if the hub is our realm or just the palce where the throne is . Anyway they have to pass through us .

So no we are not the bad guys we just try to protect OUR realm from the invaders . And even if we let them do it do you think that they can destroy the one that is on the throne (Charile at the moment) or even the throne itself (shadow throne) .

[Zeklo]

22 minutes ago, 1v0 said:

And even if we let them do it do you think that they can destroy the one that is on the throne (Charile at the moment) or even the throne itself (shadow throne) .

Well, Pugna states that They are untouchable, but still wants to destroy the throne.

Its possible that the throne is the medium They use to have influence. So maybe they can't kill Them but they can severe Their ability to do things by destroying the throne. It could very well be Their Achilles heel. 

That said, they also say something along the lines of "destroy it however we can," making it sound like they don't know if they can do it in the first place but they're gonna wing it anyway.

[zaxomik]

Hm, if Pugna surrendered, maybe they are going to help us, so if there will be other events, survivors will keep gaining new allies to at destroy the Throne 
and free everyone (Very optimistic, happy and bit strange due to how everything went so well ending)

[1v0]

28 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Well, Pugna states that They are untouchable, but still wants to destroy the throne.

Its possible that the throne is the medium They use to have influence. So maybe they can't kill Them but they can severe Their ability to do things by destroying the throne. It could very well be Their Achilles heel. 

That said, they also say something along the lines of "destroy it however we can," making it sound like they don't know if they can do it in the first place but they're gonna wing it anyway.

I don't think that Pugna can destroy it , the most he can do is free the one on it and take it's place ... (like we do in DS adventure mode and like Charlie does in DST thou she is not bound to it) If you ask me the throne itself is part of "them" the shadows and gives the godlike powers to anyone that is on it . After all they (the shadows) most likely just want a show , something to watch like - give power to a mortal and see what he does ... because funny . I mean the shadows want to be entertained , that's why no one in DS can actually die because that will be against the whole point of the characters begin pulled here ... They can only suffer and put on a show for the shadow to watch .

To take it a bit off the topic (and explain why I think that) I had a theory before time (short version) - DS characters actually do like we the players do - you start without knowing anything . And you die from hound , night or whatever you start again but with that knowledge and so on and so on . With the goal begin to stay alive as long as you can so you can figure a way out . Because when you die you are basicly thrown in a new world and start from zero . So after time (and many deaths) Wilson figured out how to make a protal to conncent many realms to 1 realm = that's how DST started . (if you remember that puzzel for DST announcemnt )

[DarkXero]

Evil? Maybe if you're a wuss. Or like to overthink.

Just kick Pugna's ass. He got it coming to him.

And if shadows come after you, kick those spacebending asses too.

And if somebody tells you "you are just like Them", kick its ass too.

And if God tries to stop you (as per all RPG storylines), kick his ass too.

I am the all mighty ass kicker and I shall determine who is wrong or right, bad or good.

Are we the baddies? No, because we are winning.

[zaxomik]

Are we stupid? No, we have good marks because we are cheating on tests

Everything's ok? Totally. Almost. Well... i guess it is?

 

[Zeklo]

4 minutes ago, 1v0 said:

After all they (the shadows) most likely just want a show , something to watch like - give power to a mortal and see what he does ... because funny . I mean the shadows want to be entertained , that's why no one in DS can actually die because that will be against the whole point of the characters begin pulled here ... They can only suffer and put on a show for the shadow to watch .

I'm getting a bit off topic myself and don't want to delve into it too much because there's a lot to say, but...

The ancient murals & obelisks just about confirm that the ancients became the shadow creatures. The shadow creatures are NOT Them. They seems to be referring to a gender neutral entity not plural.

Just as Pugna states They are unknowable. Just as the Fuelweaver states They are unfathomable. Think of Them more as a "god", like the ancients did.

For multiple reasons the Fuel Weaver is believed to be the Ancient King thus why the shadows-who were once ancients-follow his orders that go against the will of Them.

A less proven theory I have is that "Metheus" is the Ancient Queen, and Charlie's shadow half. Thus explaining why the shadows listen to Charlie as much as they do.

[1v0]

17 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

I'm getting a bit off topic myself and don't want to delve into it too much because there's a lot to say, but...

The ancient murals & obelisks just about confirm that the ancients became the shadow creatures. The shadow creatures are NOT Them. They seems to be referring to a gender neutral entity not plural.

Just as Pugna states They are unknowable. Just as the Fuelweaver states They are unfathomable. Think of Them more as a "god", like the ancients did.

For multiple reasons the Fuel Weaver is believed to be the Ancient King thus why the shadows-who were once ancients-follow his orders that go against the will of Them.

A less proven theory I have is that "Metheus" is the Ancient Queen, and Charlie's shadow half. Thus explaining why the shadows listen to Charlie as much as they do.

By shadows I don't mean the ones we can kill(the old ones) I mean the ones that gave Maxwell all the power and made the throne . And Charlie could be considered half a shadow and that's why she is not bound to the thrones . To put it simply I think that "them" are shadows ... just the shadows as a theme is too big in the game . That's why the old ones transformed into shadows and the shadow fuel corrupted them ... They used power from "them" and in turn became like "them" . It's a bit far fetched and I haven't really though about this but in my opinion it's the most logical , not to mention that shadows (the shadow watcher and shadow hands) were the ones to actually drag Maxwell into DS .

[minespatch]

8 hours ago, Parusoid said:

 

(Victory) No! Eons of training, only to be felled by the Throne's lapdogs. Please. No more, Gatekeepers. We surrender. The day is yours, as is the Gateway.
 

 

Might be a case of misundertanding by the way the winning dialogue is. Apparently "we" protect the gateway yet... What happens if the survivors explain their case to Pugna?

[WilliamGreywind]

Well the forge is pretty great and the lore that comes with it too. Hopefully we'll see what happens with Pugna after the event concludes. If does end up reconnecting the Forge with the hub/ Constant, maybe we'll see the changes afterwards.

[1v0]

I hope that after the event we get the stuff from the forge (items/NPC/creatures) around the survival world ... like they passed the gate and joined our realm . Or after we beat them they surrender and scatter around our world .

[zaxomik]

More Allies! 

In case of fighting ancient horrors, nightmare chairs, crazy shadow women and other sick stuff every friendly hand is welcome