Food in Outbreak a look on water

[Ciderblock]

Just now, Saturnus said:

The gravity? What do you mean?

If a void is basically a black hole then it should have enough gravity to tear apart a dupe getting close to it.

[Saturnus]

1 minute ago, Ciderblock said:

If a void is basically a black hole then it should have enough gravity to tear apart a dupe getting close to it.

It might not be a black hole though. It could be a wormhole. It would also make sense because the Void doesn't actually pull in gases or liquids but deletes them when they wander there on their own. Gases are just pulled in by the vacuum that generates.

[Michi01]

34 minutes ago, Darkarma said:

I suspect voids are probably micro black holes.

The devs have confirmed that voids are not supposed to appear and are a bug in world gen. From the look and description, I'm assuming that it's supposed to be outer space and the mass deletion represents stuff getting sucked into space and it's supposed to appear on the surface (which currently isn't implemented though).

[Darkarma]

36 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

The gravity? What do you mean?

Neutronium, what the outer shell of the asteroid is made of is, is a degenerate matter that isn't even atoms, they are a subatomic liquid so dense and packed that it keeps atoms from forming. Gravity has to be immense to keep the whole thing from exploding outward. your dupes are inside what essentually the inside of a neutron star. Not quite a black hole.

For more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_matter

[Oozinator]

36 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

The gravity? What do you mean?

I think he is talking about the "Sleeping under an apple tree, apple falling onto head-stuff"..

[Saturnus]

1 minute ago, Oozinator said:

I think he is talking about the "Sleeping under an apple tree, apple falling onto head-stuff"..

How does the apple know it's falling? Clearly, it's you jumping up and head butting it.

[Oozinator]

Just now, Saturnus said:

.. Clearly..

Sure sure.
Earth is flat ^^
 

[Saturnus]

4 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

Sure sure.
Earth is flat ^^
 

Or maybe the apple is just really good at physics and use an Einsteinian frame of reference, unlike the sad clueless Newton fellow. 

[Darkarma]

I think we're wildly off topic which is mostly my fault.

On topic, if water could be a somewhat closer to closed system I would rather happy for it. If farming also used less water I'd also be happy. Currently I'm going through swimming pools of water fast in my builds.

[Sevio]

I've not been able to create voids anymore in the OU debug mode, unless I somehow missed it in the big element list.

As for water, I don't think it needs to be a closed system since we have geysers and lavatory output as net mass inputs, but the consumption side with some plants has gotten out of hand.

[Michi01]

10 minutes ago, Sevio said:

I've not been able to create voids anymore in the OU debug mode, unless I somehow missed it in the big element list.

They changed the UI of debug mode a bit and it seems like they removed voids from the list of paintable elements when they did.

[Saturnus]

15 minutes ago, Sevio said:

I've not been able to create voids anymore in the OU debug mode, unless I somehow missed it in the big element list.

They're there. I use them in my universal powerplant. It's just a small 2840W average power plant.

 

PowerPlant2.yaml

[The Plum Gate]

2 hours ago, Darkarma said:

I think we're wildly off topic which is mostly my fault.

On topic, if water could be a somewhat closer to closed system I would rather happy for it. If farming also used less water I'd also be happy. Currently I'm going through swimming pools of water fast in my builds.

If they were to add water vapor as a gas ( not steam...) then a whole new element of agriculture could be explored - aeroponics.

[Cilya]

2 hours ago, Saturnus said:

They're there. I use them in my universal powerplant. It's just a small 2840W average power plant.

Good idea ! Thanks !

[Darkarma]

27 minutes ago, The Plum Gate said:

If they were to add water vapor as a gas ( not steam...) then a whole new element of agriculture could be explored - aeroponics.

I like that idea!

[Sevio]

9 hours ago, The Plum Gate said:

If they were to add water vapor as a gas ( not steam...) then a whole new element of agriculture could be explored - aeroponics.

Steam is water vapor, what you're suggesting would require a humidity system which would add another layer on top of the gas system. While interesting, gas simulation is already a CPU intensive part of the game so I wouldn't get my hopes up too much. Source:

 

[Coolthulhu]

On 9/5/2017 at 6:12 PM, gobokin said:

Bristle blossoms require 80 kg/cycle for four cycles to produce a single berry.  That's a LOT of polluted water for a dupe to be injecting back into the system in a single bathroom visit.

It's not necessary to put all that water in a dupe. Plants could produce fibrous waste to contain the excess polluted water. Not sure what could that be useful for, though - composting? Biogas converter? Conversion into coal through pyrolysis?

On a side note, it could be cool to have different foods cause different bladder accumulation. Say, eating dry sleet buns could let them work all day, while lice meals would force them to "go" 4 times per cycle.

[Saturnus]

14 hours ago, Darkarma said:

Neutronium, what the outer shell of the asteroid is made of is, is a degenerate matter that isn't even atoms, they are a subatomic liquid so dense and packed that it keeps atoms from forming. Gravity has to be immense to keep the whole thing from exploding outward. your dupes are inside what essentually the inside of a neutron star. Not quite a black hole.

For more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_matter

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_theorem

[Darkarma]

44 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_theorem

Math was never my strong suit so I'm not sure how this would play with the mass the significant portion, or more, of a sun surrounding the outside of hollow body let alone Newtonian physics which doesn't have a good relationship gravity approaching that of almost black holes.. But the problem here is we are playing logic with a game that pays lip service to physics unless part of the story eventually is about explaining how the inside of a neutron star to stellar fragment can be habitable cause I've never heard of an asteroid made of the stuff when a tea spoon's worth is several hundred tons.

Context to your link might be important.

[The Plum Gate]

2 hours ago, Sevio said:

Steam is water vapor, what you're suggesting would require a humidity system which would add another layer on top of the gas system. While interesting, gas simulation is already a CPU intensive part of the game so I wouldn't get my hopes up too much. Source:

I know that steam is water vapor - but it's at a temperature that is relatively useless for agricultural purposes. As for sanitary purposes, it should be excellent - but we don't get that feature without advanced gas chemistry, we're only relying on temperature transfer to kill germs.

Steam to water. They skip the low temperature water vapor part. The vapor phase doesn't have to be implemented for everything and we don't need a new overlay with a relative humidity sensor.

And I read through this post you've referred me to; it's essentially a call for more advanced gas chemistry; You seem to imply that it would require a whole new layer. Water vapor can be inferred to contain breathable oxygen in the same way polluted oxygen is inferred to contain some sort of pollutant (presumably dirt) plus oxygen itself. I'm not sure what the math in there has to do with adding another single gas - everything currently revolves around displacement, additive and subtractive interactions, and movement paradigms. You could a dozen more gasses - the only thing that changes is how the gases move when they're all mixed together in the same space. How like gasses interact practically stays the same.

@Sevio, one more gas, I'm serious. They just added a germ counter to every single tile on the map and now have to keep track of it. Did you notice a performance hit?

[Saturnus]

18 minutes ago, Darkarma said:

Math was never my strong suit so I'm not sure how this would play with the mass the significant portion...

Since the bulk of the mass is the neutronium, the theorem proves that inside a shell there is no net gravitational force. That means the duplicants inside are completely unaffected by the neutronium mass. Think it it this way; the neutronium has somehow formed an impenetrable super dense shell around something which can be seen as hollow from a mass perspective. As duplicants move around inside, when they get closer to the shell on one side they also get affect more and more by the mass from all other sides. The net effect is always zero for any force that obeys the distance squared law, like gravity. It is irrelevant if you use relativistic or classical physics.

This video might be helpful in understanding what it means. 

 

[Sevio]

1 hour ago, The Plum Gate said:

Water vapor can be inferred to contain breathable oxygen in the same way polluted oxygen is inferred to contain some sort of pollutant (presumably dirt) plus oxygen itself.

Polluted Oxygen is Oxygen with an undefined assortment of impurities so has a better case of being a separate element than a breathable Water Vapor gas, because water already exists in the game in all three phases. It's going to leave people confused why Duplicants can breathe it, and why there needs to be both a Steam gas and a Water Vapor gas. If it is breathable you've also created a new way for Duplicants to breathe water, depending on the mix of water and oxygen needed to make this.

This is why I don't think Water Vapor as a gas makes sense in ONI. A humidity system would make more sense, but to be worth developing it would also have to affect more than the growth of some plants. Fungi growing all over your colony if you don't keep it dry enough, or something.

If you really want aeroponics, wouldn't it make more sense to have a new aeroponics farm type of building that locally does the humidity management for the plant it houses?

 

[Darkarma]

1 hour ago, Sevio said:

Polluted Oxygen is Oxygen with an undefined assortment of impurities so has a better case of being a separate element than a breathable Water Vapor gas, because water already exists in the game in all three phases. It's going to leave people confused why Duplicants can breathe it, and why there needs to be both a Steam gas and a Water Vapor gas. If it is breathable you've also created a new way for Duplicants to breathe water, depending on the mix of water and oxygen needed to make this.

This is why I don't think Water Vapor as a gas makes sense in ONI. A humidity system would make more sense, but to be worth developing it would also have to affect more than the growth of some plants. Fungi growing all over your colony if you don't keep it dry enough, or something.

If you really want aeroponics, wouldn't it make more sense to have a new aeroponics farm type of building that locally does the humidity management for the plant it houses?

 

Agreed, I imagine you could easily make humidity an attribute of every cell and then when steam is called for, increase the temperature of that cell accordingly along with it humidity attribute. Since humidity can, within reason, be applied other gases/vapors since its really just water particulates that have been suspended.

Whatever material occupies that cell would them determine how much humidy can be held and what its original temperature was can augment how steam is converted to water, ice or maintained.

3 hours ago, Saturnus said:

Since the bulk of the mass is the neutronium, the theorem proves that inside a shell there is no net gravitational force. That means the duplicants inside are completely unaffected by the neutronium mass. Think it it this way; the neutronium has somehow formed an impenetrable super dense shell around something which can be seen as hollow from a mass perspective. As duplicants move around inside, when they get closer to the shell on one side they also get affect more and more by the mass from all other sides. The net effect is always zero for any force that obeys the distance squared law, like gravity. It is irrelevant if you use relativistic or classical physics.

This video might be helpful in understanding what it means. 

 

Ah thanks that makes more sense.

[SusanMcO]

Or maybe after harvest, if there is no seed, there is either polluted soil that can be composted or slime that could be used. 

You could have different difficulty levels that affect the recyclabilty of water.  At that rate, the best way to keep your water stores up is to keep a crying stressed dupe trapped.  Hmm.  Now that makes me want to experiment with that.  Does that make me evil?  *L*

[Sevio]

1 hour ago, SusanMcO said:

Or maybe after harvest, if there is no seed, there is either polluted soil that can be composted or slime that could be used. 

You could have different difficulty levels that affect the recyclabilty of water.  At that rate, the best way to keep your water stores up is to keep a crying stressed dupe trapped.  Hmm.  Now that makes me want to experiment with that.  Does that make me evil?  *L*

That's so cruel