Insulated Pack: Who is really using it? Is it worth it? A Suggestion

[DarkXero]

14 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

You think this is balanced?? 

240 heat prot Eyebrella + 120 Insulated Pack you won't need a thermal stone in summer, never again...

The summer frest gives 120 insulation.

An umbrella gives 120 insulation.

A floral shirt gives 240 insulation.

 

If the pack had 120 summer insulation, would I use it?

No.

240 summer insulation?

That's a infinite floral shirt. With no sanity gain. But with inventory slots. And infinite.

[Faintly Macabre]

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

You think this is balanced?? 

240 heat prot Eyebrella + 120 Insulated Pack you won't need a thermal stone in summer, never again....

This is already a thing and has double the heat protection, and yes, when you use them together you still use a thermal stone because you will still probably heat up to the point where the thermal stone stabilizes your temperature before it warms up completely. And if you don't think that's balanced, how is making the thermal stone nothing but a slot in your bag that stays full all summer long better?

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

I'm not saying there didn't deliberate on the topic... That's something I never said... 

I'm not saying you said that. You read things really strangely. What I was doing was explaining the difference between the examples you bring up and this.

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

If you compare for instance in SW

I don't consider much of anything in SW to be well-balanced, so this comparison doesn't say a lot to me. I've already said I can agree that reducing the gear cost might be something worth doing. If doodads are really such a big issue, make it use less of them too, I guess.

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

With "minikitchens" I mean a fridge on the road... and carrying the materials for the initial crafting is not a problem... you could do it every time you go back and forth and just precraft the fridge and place it, since precrafted recipes have 0 height... Not a big problem actually... 

Whatever time you spend traveling the food will spoil at the normal rate, and you'll at the very least need to carry a hammer or hope the stuff for one is around when you decide you want your gears back. At the moment, the insulated pack lets you explore and travel indefinitely with the maximum spoilage protection for your food. I don't see how making and breaking an icebox at spots along the way is a substitute for that. If it's good enough for whatever you care to do, swell, but there are definitely things the pack allows you to do that having a prebuilt icebox ready does not.

[Ginosaji]

even with this buff the pack wouldn't be worth it because i consider it a waste of gears and i think that's the main problem with this pack to begin with. it's not bad as it is, it's just too expensive for what it does.

lets be honest, what is there to do during summer anyway that make you want to have perma frozen thermal stones with this backpack? if you ask me what there is to do on the surface world during summer, i would say hunting tumbleweeds and picking cactus because everything else in the world is either withered or you just don't want to spend time near anything that's not renewable like mushrooms in a forest etc. and here come the wasted 3 gears on the backpack into play. you could build 3 iceboxes around your desert biome and let them serve the purpose of a 'cool my thermal stone' stop station and you would basically have the feature that you want this pack to have.

[FreyaMaluk]

1 hour ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

I don't consider much of anything in SW to be well-balanced, so this comparison doesn't say a lot to me. I've already said I can agree that reducing the gear cost might be something worth doing. If doodads are really such a big issue, make it use less of them too, I guess.

 

1 hour ago, Ginosaji said:

even with this buff the pack wouldn't be worth it because i consider it a waste of gears and i think that's the main problem with this pack to begin with. it's not bad as it is, it's just too expensive for what it does.

The gears cost is exactly the point here.... and yes, SW is not perfect, but the example with the Sea Sack was just to prove that the Insulated Pack recipe is not balanced... Why would you need gears for that recipe?? It's not electric or a machine... it's not a fridge right now.... it offers insulation only. Why do they need only vines and seaweeds in SW for the same purpose?...

SW= All renewable materials and a boss drop vs. DST = all mechanical materials and a boss drop... do you see the difference??

That's what I mean... It makes no sense at all... The recipe is really expensive and it needs a bit of tuning since gears are not exactly renewable in DST, are they?

1 hour ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

This is already a thing and has double the heat protection, and yes, when you use them together you still use a thermal stone because you will still probably heat up to the point where the thermal stone stabilizes your temperature before it warms up completely. And if you don't think that's balanced, how is making the thermal stone nothing but a slot in your bag that stays full all summer long better?

And if Gears are needed then this item must function as a machine, a machine that can keep things cold... it is fair 

For the materials needed it is suppose to be strong... Not just an ok-ish item, sorta useful but kinda meh

[Faintly Macabre]

47 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

And if Gears are needed then this item must function as a machine, a machine that can keep things cold... it is fair 

That is not how balance works.

[TheKingDedede]

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

That's what I mean... It makes no sense at all... The recipe is really expensive and it needs a bit of tuning since gears are not exactly renewable in DST, are they?

I use Tumbleweeds. They get the job done.

[Diezen]

13 minutes ago, TheKingDedede said:

I use Tumbleweeds. They get the job done.

Yeah, considering it's a later game item gears shouldn't be much of an issue. By that time you could have farmed the gears from tumbleweeds when farming for gold/grass/twigs, or gone to the ruins and kill/break some clockworks easily. The insulated pack is my favorite 'have excess food that can heal (Pierogies/fish sticks) and can be given to teammates when needed' pack, while still being able to be used as extra slots. Especially on Wolfgang. It's my choice of a pack if I want to do something for a while and not care about having to get food, once made 40 bacon and eggs which lasted all summer even when I gave people food when needed.

Also hambat is bes.

[FreyaMaluk]

1 hour ago, TheKingDedede said:

I use Tumbleweeds. They get the job done.

I know that...

[FreyaMaluk]

2 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

That is not how balance works.

How come this is balanced now?? You did agree with me before by saying a tuning for the recipe is actually a very reasonable suggestion... That's what I'm looking for... You suggestion with the Heat Prot is one, but I don't see this more viable than the portable ice box. 

Most people here have agreed that they would be happy with some changes:

- almost everyone agreed on +2 Slots

- many agreed with an ice preserving feature

- some agreed on a real ice box (freezing thermal stones)

- and some, included you, think it is good as it is

At least, there are some features Klei can work with...

Either reducing the electric ingredients or, even better, changing them for some renewable materials like reeds and keeping the pack's capacity as it is considering the Sea Sack crafting materials in SW. With the later change, people won't associate the Pack anymore with an Ice Box, which is a crucial aspect for people complaining about it

or making it really strong and maintaining the current recipe

Those are the ideas I can gather at the moment... Maybe there are better suggestions out there, but at least I'm trying and giving the chance for opening the discussion again... and many have look at this post, so it is rather an important topic

2 hours ago, Diezen said:

The insulated pack is my favorite 'have excess food that can heal (Pierogies/fish sticks) and can be given to teammates when needed' pack, while still being able to be used as extra slots. Especially on Wolfgang. It's my choice of a pack if I want to do something for a while and not care about having to get food, once made 40 bacon and eggs which lasted all summer even when I gave people food when needed.

Also hambat is bes.

For you it is actually perfect as Wolfgang... but it is not like you and your group are always together all the time... and it is not the best alternative for everyone, specially for people using books (Wickerbottom. Maxwell)... people who really need more inventory space

 

Finally, I'm not saying this backpack is not cool and all, but as @Ginosaji said

4 hours ago, Ginosaji said:

it's not bad as it is, it's just too expensive for what it does.

 

[Faintly Macabre]

15 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

How come this is balanced now??

I don't know why but for some reason you seem to misinterpret almost everything I say. I wasn't saying the recipe is balanced and fine, I was saying that "it takes gears, so it has to work like a machine" is not how balancing works. It's also worth pointing out that there are machines that keep things cool without freezing things. We call them refridgerators.

20 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

You suggestion with the Heat Prot is one, but I don't see this more viable than the portable ice box.

It's not any less "viable." You might think it's not as useful (and you'd be right, but my entire point is that a fully portable ice box is TOO useful), but it's perfectly viable.

[FreyaMaluk]

36 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

I don't know why but for some reason you seem to misinterpret almost everything I say. I wasn't saying the recipe is balanced and fine, I was saying that "it takes gears, so it has to work like a machine" is not how balancing works. It's also worth pointing out that there are machines that keep things cool without freezing things. We call them refridgerators.

It's not any less "viable." You might think it's not as useful (and you'd be right, but my entire point is that a fully portable ice box is TOO useful), but it's perfectly viable.

It seems like this happens both ways, cuz I just made a summary of all points of view I could gathered from this thread and gave some extra alternatives, but you are just trying to make your point.... 

I though I was clear enough about our agreement that the recipe needs a change

49 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

You did agree with me before by saying a tuning for the recipe is actually a very reasonable suggestion... That's what I'm looking for...

and, on the contrary, i think that extra heat resistance is ALSO very useful, but it makes MORE sense to me to make it a real ice box rather than to give it heat res...

I don't see how this has to give extra heat RES since this Backpack is neither producing any cold as it is right now (otherwise it would be able to freeze your thermal stone, which leads us back to the portable ice box idea), nor giving you any sort of shadow...

That's all...

[FreyaMaluk]

5 hours ago, Ginosaji said:

even with this buff the pack wouldn't be worth it because i consider it a waste of gears and i think that's the main problem with this pack to begin with. it's not bad as it is, it's just too expensive for what it does.

lets be honest, what is there to do during summer anyway that make you want to have perma frozen thermal stones with this backpack? if you ask me what there is to do on the surface world during summer, i would say hunting tumbleweeds and picking cactus because everything else in the world is either withered or you just don't want to spend time near anything that's not renewable like mushrooms in a forest etc. and here come the wasted 3 gears on the backpack into play. you could build 3 iceboxes around your desert biome and let them serve the purpose of a 'cool my thermal stone' stop station and you would basically have the feature that you want this pack to have.

The whole idea is to make it stronger.... and when I'm trying to suggest that, then you say... why this?

If you have a better idea then please... feel free to share it with us... but for me and for many this needs a change...

I've summarized some ideas here: 

51 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Most people here have agreed that they would be happy with some changes:

- almost everyone agreed on +2 Slots

- many agreed with an ice preserving feature

- some agreed on a real ice box (freezing thermal stones)

- and some, included you, think it is good as it is

At least, there are some features Klei can work with...

Either reducing the electric ingredients or, even better, changing them for some renewable materials like reeds and keeping the pack's capacity as it is considering the Sea Sack crafting materials in SW. With the later change, people won't associate the Pack anymore with an Ice Box, which is a crucial aspect for people complaining about it

or making it really strong and maintaining the current recipe

IMO, the Insulated Pack needs to be a strong Pack with some cool features (pun intended)... or a better recipe...

[NotStarvnMarvn]

10 hours ago, AlternateMew said:

That would make it even less desirable.

Unless you're Warly. And then you already start with a backpack that's cheaper to make, costs far less than the insulated pack (and it's SW counterpart), and, what do you know, has 2 extra slots in comparison. So still no reason to use it, even from the one character who could possibly benefit from a backpack that stores only food. And even that is being generous enough to assume that SW characters would ever be officially ported to DST.

What I mean is having 8 slots only for food, not the usual 6 slots for everyting.

[Faintly Macabre]

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

and, on the contrary, i think that extra heat resistance is ALSO very useful, but it makes MORE sense to me to make it a real ice box rather than to give it heat res...

I don't see how this has to give extra heat RES since this Backpack is neither producing any cold as it is right now (otherwise it would be able to freeze your thermal stone, which leads us back to the portable ice box idea), nor giving you any sort of shadow...

Again, something can cool its contents without freezing them. There's no reason to believe that the insulated pack isn't doing this, because it would still need to be insulated to be efficient. Though really I'm not all that concerned with what's logical as much as what's balanced. I'm suggesting a more balanced solution that makes some cartoonish, unscientific sense that might actually happen because I'm almost 100% certain they're not going to let the thing freeze thermal stones. If you want to keep fighting for that feature, go nuts, but I think you're wasting your time.

[TheKingDedede]

4 hours ago, Diezen said:

The insulated pack is my favorite 'have excess food that can heal (Pierogies/fish sticks) and can be given to teammates when needed' pack, while still being able to be used as extra slots. Especially on Wolfgang. It's my choice of a pack if I want to do something for a while and not care about having to get food, once made 40 bacon and eggs which lasted all summer even when I gave people food when needed.

Being a mobile food stand and a medic? That actually sounds really fun to do.

You have opened this king's eyes to the glory that is...

THE INSULATED PACK!

[AlternateMew]

5 hours ago, Dylan738 said:

What I mean is having 8 slots only for food, not the usual 6 slots for everyting.

Again, unless you're Warly, why the heck would you need to carry around that much food?

Hunger. Health. Sanity. That's what food is for. At the very most, you'd only need three food slots. Having an 8 slot backpack that holds only food would actually be outclassed by the current expensive, sub-par Insulated Pack. And that's saying something.

[Diezen]

4 hours ago, TheKingDedede said:

Being a mobile food stand and a medic? That actually sounds really fun to do.

You have opened this king's eyes to the glory that is...

THE INSULATED PACK!

It's really handy hunting around with that pack as Wolfgang (or Wiggy). Meaty stew lasts longer so the full 150 hunger is great, cooked koalaphant trunks as well for the hp. Fishing is another great alternative to pierogies, and it keeps fish fresh longer. Since fish sticks can be made with 1 fish, 2 monster meat, 1 twig so perfect for non egg/veggy requiring 40 hp heal. 

My biggest issue with getting an insulated pack is it being from such a late giant... 

[FreyaMaluk]

7 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Again, something can cool its contents without freezing them. There's no reason to believe that the insulated pack isn't doing this, because it would still need to be insulated to be efficient. Though really I'm not all that concerned with what's logical as much as what's balanced. I'm suggesting a more balanced solution that makes some cartoonish, unscientific sense that might actually happen because I'm almost 100% certain they're not going to let the thing freeze thermal stones. If you want to keep fighting for that feature, go nuts, but I think you're wasting your time.

Again.... I'm trying to make them change the recipe for a more balanced one.... it seems to me you don't read the other alternative 

 

9 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

At least, there are some features Klei can work with...

Either reducing the electric ingredients or, even better, changing them for some renewable materials like reeds and keeping the pack's capacity as it is considering the Sea Sack crafting materials in SW. With the later change, people won't associate the Pack anymore with an Ice Box, which is a crucial aspect for people complaining about it

or making it really strong and maintaining the current recipe

Insulation doesn't necessarily means that it needs to cool things... Insulation is normally an antibacterial and preserving material... that's why I believe papyrus is good material if they what to balance things out.... for centuries papyrus has been use to preserve meat and other materials.... 

I'm not stuck on the "portable ice box" idea or death... I'm looking for a new and more balanced recipe or stronger features...  

[NotStarvnMarvn]

9 hours ago, AlternateMew said:

Again, unless you're Warly, why the heck would you need to carry around that much food?

Hunger. Health. Sanity. That's what food is for. At the very most, you'd only need three food slots. Having an 8 slot backpack that holds only food would actually be outclassed by the current expensive, sub-par Insulated Pack. And that's saying something.

Well, it's what the insulated pack is for.

Why are you comparing this to Warly? Go back to the SW forums if you want to compare everything to it.

[AnonymousKoala]

25 minutes ago, Dylan738 said:

Well, it's what the insulated pack is for.

Why are you comparing this to Warly? Go back to the SW forums if you want to compare everything to it.

The insulated pack is an icebox on the go. Only then you remove every feature of it except carrying food(ice doesnt count), and since you don't have an on the go crock pot, its really just a place to store crock pot meals most likely. Now...It has 6 slots. And its more expensive than the backpack with 8 slots. Its more expensive than the one with 12 slots(true, the piggyback slows you down, but speed ups and beefalos exist, which negate this). It isn't more expensive than the Krampus Sack, but the Sack is also better.

Its utility and cost make it a not too useful item, and the comparison Freya is doing, is because Warly's reskin of it(which has 8 slots), and SW's reskin of it(6 slots, dirt cheap) took these 2 issues of it and fixed them. SW is SW, I agree, but as they are flat out reskins save for these few differences, which make them more viable than the original item, they have every reason to be compared. 

[AlternateMew]

12 minutes ago, Dylan738 said:

Well, it's what the insulated pack is for.

Why are you comparing this to Warly? Go back to the SW forums if you want to compare everything to it.

I'm only using Warly because he's the only character that has any need to have so many different foods on him at once, and that's being generous because he isn't even in DST. So the real answer is that nobody in DST should need to have 6-8 slots of food on them at any one time. There's no one.

Let me repeat in a different format:

- Warly is the only character who would need more than 3 types of food on him at once for travelling
- Warly isn't even in DST
- Other charaters need at most a food for hunger, a food for health, and a food for sanity. That's three different foods at once.
- For other characters, the ones that actually exist in DST, there is no use for a backpack that holds only food.
- Nobody in DST should have any use for 6-8 backpack slots that are restricted to food only.
- Conclusion: Restricting the insulated pack to food only would make it more useless than many user's current opinion of it.

[AnonymousKoala]

11 minutes ago, AlternateMew said:

I'm only using Warly because he's the only character that has any need to have so many different foods on him at once, and that's being generous because he isn't even in DST. So the real answer is that nobody in DST should need to have 6-8 slots of food on them at any one time. There's no one.

Let me repeat in a different format:

- Warly is the only character who would need more than 3 types of food on him at once for travelling
- Warly isn't even in DST
- Other charaters need at most a food for hunger, a food for health, and a food for sanity. That's three different foods at once.
- For other characters, the ones that actually exist in DST, there is no use for a backpack that holds only food.
- Nobody in DST should have any use for 6-8 backpack slots that are restricted to food only.
- Conclusion: Restricting the insulated pack to food only would make it more useless than many user's current opinion of it.

Warly doesn't even NEED the 3 types. If you know your way with the best hunger filling dishes(read: Meaty Stew shoving down his throat), and eat only when needed, his disadventage disappears, making a character with too much focus on a weak point, to not even have that point.

[NotStarvnMarvn]

omg, stop using Warly as an example.

 

*Triggered*

[NotStarvnMarvn]

Listen, I think the insulated pack is fine the way it is, and making it carry only food is welcomed for me. In the caves I tend to only make really long trips, and go with 3 stacks of jerky, bananas and morsels (cave monkeys), taffy, light bulbs, and sometimes meat and carrots from bunnymen. 8 slots of food right there.

Insulated pack is a choice, you don't have to make it then cry about how it doesn't carry ALL of your food and doesn't have 8 slots. I use it only in caves and most of the times fill it with a lot of food, carry all of the ruins in my pocket, and go home after literally a full season of going nomad in the caves. 8 slots? No! It has 6 because it's so insulated and keeps food from spoiling. As for the snow chester argument, valid, but people like to have shadow chester (because everyone apparently sooo much inv. space) and chester can't go in caves. But huch is in caves, use your inventory slots on that. Maybe if you never seem to have enough space, I can give you some pointers or stop carrying so much unnecessary crap all the time? You don't have to use it. 

[FreyaMaluk]

1 hour ago, Dylan738 said:

omg, stop using Warly as an example.

ok... 

let's forget about Warly....

Let's say you normally have in your inventory 2 food items, the rest is materials and tools, etc...

You see that if you give +2 slots, but you force people to take only food in that pack, people are just going to disregard this pack even more. Cuz most players need only 2 slots, maybe 4 slots for food tops, but the rest of those slots are needed for other items. The title of the thread is "is it worth it?" and many think it is not because of the cost-benefit relationship

The idea is to find a middle point between the recipe materials and what you gain from that item... 

I believe the answer lies in these two options:

a less expensive recipe if they want to maintain the pack as it is

or

a stronger Pack, because the recipe is really strong: you can almost build a minibase with all those gears and doodads.