Willow's strats and Grass gekkos.

[Faintly Macabre]

7 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

No other solution other than the approach I've put in can actually "prevent griefing before it happens". Everything else is an aftermath and damage can still get done.

Maybe (or perhaps I should say evidently) people don't agree that trying to prevent griefing before it happens is worth the changes you're talking about? The problem for me is once you start changing stuff with this mindset, where do you draw the line? How radically are you willing to change the game, and how much stuff do you make suck/inconsequential just for this purpose? And perhaps more importantly, do you really think you'll be able to keep one step ahead of these people? Just as soon as you've altered this thing here (and in the process inconvenienced or upset other players) they'll come up with something else, and then what will you have to turn upside down next?

7 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Okay then. Give me some other way Willow could stop being seen as your "typical griefer" and someone other players actually want on board or perhaps even NEED on board?

I don't really have any. In the past I've considered that players other than Willow should be able to cook food with the lighter, though with some caveat, like non-Willow players using 10% of the lighter's durability to do so instead of Willow's 1%, or the food's hunger/sanity/health gains being affected slightly negatively by being roasted over an unfiltered butane flame. But even that is unlikely to make her a must-have. And honestly, I'm no longer certain that's even necessary. You know what Wilson brings to the table? Squat. You might think beard hair, but consider how long it takes to get a significant number of hairs, and then try this out: get a Wendy player to take Abigail down to the ruins and wait for the Nightmare to begin, then trot on through some splumonkey pods; after a couple of these runs through you'll find you have so much beard hair you're starting to use it for fuel. Oh, nightmare fuel, too, which pretty well invalidates the advantages of Bernie actually fighting shadows.

7 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

However the bigger problem is Gekkos that spawn near something like tallbirds in mosaic/rocky biomes or hounds in deserts because they automatically aggroe on them.

Tallbirds shouldn't be murdering gekkos (or for that matter their own damned children); I've thought so for a while but forgot to bring it up here I think. Hounds on the other hand are just jerks, and should act jerky, and you have to make a decision: do you want those hound mounds to stay intact, or do you want those gekkos to stay alive? I've personally never had more than one or two small herds in the vicinity of hound mounds and many dozens in spots that were perfectly fine, so I'm not sure how big a problem that is anyway.

[WillowCrocker]

I agree.

I think Bernie as he stands is pretty OP (extremely helpful if you play Willow and have trouble with sanity), but the nerf was too much. I still don't understand the decision to nerf her when you can grief with ANY character just the same. People still do it all the time; a torch is, quite frankly, the cheapest thing to make in DST. I could go into a server with Wilson or Wigfrid and have people TOTALLY respect me only to turn my back on them and burn their entire camp to the ground just as easily as I could with Willow now that she's been nerfed. It only hindered and didn't really help. People will always be jerks, no matter what character they're playing, and it's pretty unfair that I have to get kicked out of servers just because I'm playing Willow with only innocent intentions. 

I wrote an entire guide to playing Willow though, if that helps.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

55 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Maybe (or perhaps I should say evidently) people don't agree that trying to prevent griefing before it happens is worth the changes you're talking about There really isn't any other way! Either that or we let the griefers grief and then pull long faces after they've been banned/kicked. I wish I was wrong, but there really is no other way. ? The problem for me is once you start changing stuff with this mindset, where do you draw the line? How radically are you willing to change the game, and how much stuff do you make suck/inconsequential just for this purpose? And perhaps more importantly, do you really think you'll be able to keep one step ahead of these people? Just as soon as you've altered this thing here (and in the process inconvenienced or upset other players) they'll come up with something else, and then what will you have to turn upside down next? Haven't I or others stated (or is it not obvious?) that people could still "grief" via bringing Deerclops/Bearger purposefully into the base, Fire hounds, turning off a flingo and waiting for Summer to start doing the burning for them and all the naturally occurring things that can get them involved. None of that should be removed as this cannot really be dealt with in terms of incentive. Regardless though, these are intended mechanics. If something happens due to intended mechanics, that shouldn't be removed as far as "griefing" goes since that wouldn't really be griefing. What's unintended is for you to burn down, hammer or loot a base and never come back. Preventing these kinds of things in a fashion so that general game-play doesn't get disrupted might not have perfect solutions, but something that prevents them from happening in the first place a lot more should be considered. And hei, even if they in the end bring no difference at all in terms of griefing except change some game mechanics, they can always be reversed. Like killing players with Weather Pain in PvE and teleporting other players via Telelocator Staff in PvE.

I don't really have any. In the past I've considered that players other than Willow should be able to cook food with the lighter, though with some caveat, like non-Willow players using 10% of the lighter's durability to do so instead of Willow's 1%, or the food's hunger/sanity/health gains being affected slightly negatively by being roasted over an unfiltered butane flame. But even that is unlikely to make her a must-have. And honestly, I'm no longer certain that's even necessary. You know what Wilson brings to the table? Squat. You might think beard hair, but consider how long it takes to get a significant number of hairs, and then try this out: get a Wendy player to take Abigail down to the ruins and wait for the Nightmare to begin, then trot on through some splumonkey pods; after a couple of these runs through you'll find you have so much beard hair you're starting to use it for fuel. Oh, nightmare fuel, too, which pretty well invalidates the advantages of Bernie actually fighting shadows. Would the Bernie buff make people love Willow though? I would say yes. Don't you think the same? Regardless of how OP/useless the buff is, if what I suggested is given to Bernie, much more players would start loving Willow and playing as her for the sake of taking that advantage and bring it to the table. And those I typically play with don't even go for the fuel from splu monkeys in the ruins most the time, even if they spent like 2/5 of their time in caves and whatnot; they simply go insane and let the shadows come to them. This is where Bernie could become useful as a nightmare fuel farmer, making Willow lovable once and for all!

Tallbirds shouldn't be murdering gekkos (or for that matter their own damned children); I've thought so for a while but forgot to bring it up here I think. Hounds on the other hand are just jerks, and should act jerky, and you have to make a decision: do you want those hound mounds to stay intact, or do you want those gekkos to stay alive? No. NO. That is a bad idea >_< especially for public servers. I've personally never had more than one or two small herds in the vicinity of hound mounds and many dozens in spots that were perfectly fine, so I'm not sure how big a problem that is anyway. Perhaps not make them spawn/migrate to areas with hostile mobs? And repopulate? Kind of like beefalos? Although have a limit as to how many can be in one herd (e.g. 6) after which they would stop populating until a gekko dies?

 

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

55 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Maybe (or perhaps I should say evidently) people don't agree that trying to prevent griefing before it happens is worth the changes you're talking about There really isn't any other way! Either that or we let the griefers grief and then pull long faces after they've been banned/kicked. I wish I was wrong, but there really is no other way. ? The problem for me is once you start changing stuff with this mindset, where do you draw the line? How radically are you willing to change the game, and how much stuff do you make suck/inconsequential just for this purpose? And perhaps more importantly, do you really think you'll be able to keep one step ahead of these people? Just as soon as you've altered this thing here (and in the process inconvenienced or upset other players) they'll come up with something else, and then what will you have to turn upside down next? Haven't I or others stated (or is it not obvious?) that people could still "grief" via bringing Deerclops/Bearger purposefully into the base, Fire hounds, turning off a flingo and waiting for Summer to start doing the burning for them and all the naturally occurring things that can get them involved. None of that should be removed as this cannot really be dealt with in terms of incentive. Regardless though, these are intended mechanics. If something happens due to intended mechanics, that shouldn't be removed as far as "griefing" goes since that wouldn't really be griefing. What's unintended is for you to burn down, hammer or loot a base and never come back. Preventing these kinds of things in a fashion so that general game-play doesn't get disrupted might not have perfect solutions, but something that prevents them from happening in the first place a lot more should be considered. And hei, even if they in the end bring no difference at all in terms of griefing except change some game mechanics, they can always be reversed. Like killing players with Weather Pain in PvE and teleporting other players via Telelocator Staff in PvE.

I don't really have any. In the past I've considered that players other than Willow should be able to cook food with the lighter, though with some caveat, like non-Willow players using 10% of the lighter's durability to do so instead of Willow's 1%, or the food's hunger/sanity/health gains being affected slightly negatively by being roasted over an unfiltered butane flame. But even that is unlikely to make her a must-have. And honestly, I'm no longer certain that's even necessary. You know what Wilson brings to the table? Squat. You might think beard hair, but consider how long it takes to get a significant number of hairs, and then try this out: get a Wendy player to take Abigail down to the ruins and wait for the Nightmare to begin, then trot on through some splumonkey pods; after a couple of these runs through you'll find you have so much beard hair you're starting to use it for fuel. Oh, nightmare fuel, too, which pretty well invalidates the advantages of Bernie actually fighting shadows. Would the Bernie buff make people love Willow though? I would say yes. Don't you think the same? Regardless of how OP/useless the buff is, if what I suggested is given to Bernie, much more players would start loving Willow and playing as her for the sake of taking that advantage and bring it to the table. And those I typically play with don't even go for the fuel from splu monkeys in the ruins most the time, even if they spent like 2/5 of their time in caves and whatnot; they simply go insane and let the shadows come to them. This is where Bernie could become useful as a nightmare fuel farmer, making Willow lovable once and for all!

Tallbirds shouldn't be murdering gekkos (or for that matter their own damned children); I've thought so for a while but forgot to bring it up here I think. Hounds on the other hand are just jerks, and should act jerky, and you have to make a decision: do you want those hound mounds to stay intact, or do you want those gekkos to stay alive? No. NO. That is a bad idea >_< especially for public servers. I've personally never had more than one or two small herds in the vicinity of hound mounds and many dozens in spots that were perfectly fine, so I'm not sure how big a problem that is anyway. Perhaps not make them spawn/migrate to areas with hostile mobs? And repopulate? Kind of like beefalos? Although have a limit as to how many can be in one herd (e.g. 6) after which they would stop populating until a gekko dies?

 

[Faintly Macabre]

7 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

There really isn't any other way! Either that or we let the griefers grief and then pull long faces after they've been banned/kicked. I wish I was wrong, but there really is no other way.

Lots and lots and lots of people are disagreeing with you, mate! You might be wrong!

8 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Would the Bernie buff make people love Willow though? I would say yes. Don't you think the same? Regardless of how OP/useless the buff is, if what I suggested is given to Bernie, much more players would start loving Willow and playing as her for the sake of taking that advantage and bring it to the table. And those I typically play with don't even go for the fuel from splu monkeys in the ruins most the time, even if they spent like 2/5 of their time in caves and whatnot; they simply go insane and let the shadows come to them. This is where Bernie could become useful as a nightmare fuel farmer, making Willow lovable once and for all!

You could do a ton of dumb/unbalanced crap to make people love characters but those things would still be dumb and unbalanced. And it takes longer/is more dangerous to kill shadows than it is to let Abigail wipe the floor with a bunch of splumonkeys, so if you don't know anybody doing it, the people you know might not be all that smart? Just saying. These might not be the people you should be basing your "objective conclusions" (HAH) on.

10 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

No. NO. That is a bad idea >_<

I disagree!

10 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Perhaps not make them spawn/migrate to areas with hostile mobs? And repopulate? Kind of like beefalos? Although have a limit as to how many can be in one herd (e.g. 6) after which they would stop populating until a gekko dies?

"You don't seem to think making them respawn would be a balanced idea, but what if they respawned?" Seriously. I don't think I've ever seen anybody like you. You pepper your stupid suggestions and rhetoric with all kinds of stuff about logic and reason and absolute truths and then your counterarguments are either incohesive or just completely missing the point. It's pretty obvious you're not even trying. And on top of that, you clearly suck at explaining yourself (since the majority of people are supposedly misunderstanding what you're saying). Why should anybody keep debating with you?

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

12 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Lots and lots and lots of people are disagreeing with you, mate! You might be wrong!

* Disagreeing on what? That griefing can't be terminated unless prior preventative measures are implemented? And where? People don't like my approaches it seems and even more so my suggestions, yes. And all I did was simply state what I concluded. If others disagreed, they would need to explain why that conclusion is incorrect by what they have thought about (my conclusion being that griefing won't be dealt with well enough unlesspreventative mechanics are implemented)

You could do a ton of dumb/unbalanced crap to make people love characters but those things would still be dumb and unbalanced. And it takes longer/is more dangerous to kill shadows than it is to let Abigail wipe the floor with a bunch of splumonkeys, so if you don't know anybody doing it, the people you know might not be all that smart? Just saying. These might not be the people you should be basing your "objective conclusions" (HAH) on.

* You just proved how Bernie would not become OP with the nightmare killing strat. Killing nightmares with a few more hits, perhaps, like one person suggested for "balance" reasons or whatnot but what issue is with him killing nightmares?

I disagree!

* Probably should elaborate. If gekkos stay the way they are and don't respawn when necessary this can have serious issues for servers with grass supply and killing them becomes a method of griefing. Plus if its counterpar grass regrows, why shouldn't the gekkos? Also there is a setting which allows you to control how much of the world's resources are subject to changing. Chnaging it to have all grass getting replaced via gekkos, well, then only tumbleweeds become your way of getting grass if gekkos are being killed more and more and this would have some serious issues. I didn't say this earlier cause I knew that gekkos not respawning would be bad but couldn't explain it in words why.

"You don't seem to think making them respawn would be a balanced idea, but what if they respawned?" Seriously. I don't think I've ever seen anybody like you. You pepper your stupid suggestions and rhetoric with all kinds of stuff about logic and reason and absolute truths and then your counterarguments are either incohesive or just completely missing the point. It's pretty obvious you're not even trying. And on top of that, you clearly suck at explaining yourself (since the majority of people are supposedly misunderstanding what you're saying). Why should anybody keep debating with you?

* I might suck at explaining myself but at no point did I say anything about some "absolute truths". There is no "absolute truth" to anything I or anyone else says more or less. Everything is subject to discussion. However reasoning for the sake of bettering the game shouldn't be dismissed because of some guy's opinion that has no connection to anything. "I want ranged weapon made out of twigs that deals 1000 damage per shot and makes me immune to enemy damage". Like that for instance or something, idk. So, just because my stuff is easily misunderstood and people don't like my suggestions I should just piss off?

 

[Faintly Macabre]

27 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Disagreeing on what? That griefing can't be terminated unless prior preventative measures are implemented?

Disagreeing that there's "no other way" but to take all the measures you deem necessary to prevent griefing. We don't think that making change after change trying to stop people who we're pretty confident ultimately will not be stopped is the way to handle this problem. We've seen in the past undesirable things coming of that and we don't want any more of it. It's really that simple. None of the suggestions you've made are completely without consequence, even if you don't think the consequence is bad or bad enough.

22 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

You just proved how Bernie would not become OP with the nightmare killing strat.

It was never my contention that your suggestion was OP in the first place; I pretty clearly stated I didn't think the suggestion would do anything to make Willow a more desirable character to have on a server. What you said seemed to suggest that it doesn't matter if an idea is OP or dumb, that if it makes people like the character better it's the way to go, which is nonsense.

41 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Probably should elaborate. If gekkos stay the way they are and don't respawn when necessary this can have serious issues for servers with grass supply and killing them becomes a method of griefing. Plus if its counterpar grass regrows, why shouldn't the gekkos? Also there is a setting which allows you to control how much of the world's resources are subject to changing. Chnaging it to have all grass getting replaced via gekkos, well, then only tumbleweeds become your way of getting grass if gekkos are being killed more and more and this would have some serious issues.

There will never, ever be an issue with grass supply unless you fail to protect your resources. This is kind of a big theme in the game, keeping your resources safe. You make a grass farm? You have to protect it from burning up. You want your no-harvesting-needed, faster producing grass gekkos to last? You keep stuff away from them that will kill them. If for some reason you fail to do that... you just go back to using regular grass tufts, because unlike other resources, that's actually possible. And that setting you're talking about will not keep grass from growing on the savannas, so again, no matter what happens, you should never realistically end up with no available means of gathering grass.

And seriously, you are way, way, way too preoccupied with griefing. Where on earth are you playing that griefing is this serious an issue? I know it happens; I've seen it, and I've been a victim of it. A few times. It sucks. Then life moved on. Do you run your mouth on servers and make people angry, or put up servers named "NO GRIEFERS" or something like that?

58 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

I might suck at explaining myself but at no point did I say anything about some "absolute truths". [...] So, just because my stuff is easily misunderstood and people don't like my suggestions I should just piss off?

You haven't used the words "absolute truths" but you damned well act like your opinions are just reality. And no, you shouldn't piss off. You should stop saying things like "there's no other way," or acting like your answers are THE answers, or, like, telling people they're scum because they don't play multiplayer games the way you think they're supposed to. Whether or not you actually feel that your answers are THE answers, that's how you come off, and no manner of disclaimer tacked onto your posts absolves you of how you present yourself and your ideas. Just like you can't say, "You're a jerk!" and then add "no offense" and it stops being offensive.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

35 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Disagreeing that there's "no other way" but to take all the measures you deem necessary to prevent griefing. We don't think that making change after change trying to stop people who we're pretty confident ultimately will not be stopped is the way to handle this problem. We've seen in the past undesirable things coming of that and we don't want any more of it. Example/evidence? It's really that simple. None of the suggestions you've made are completely without consequence I never said they weren't., even if you don't think the consequence is bad or bad enough. If the consequence isn't that bad or noticeable then is that really a huge problem?

It was never my contention that your suggestion was OP in the first place; I pretty clearly stated I didn't think the suggestion would do anything to make Willow a more desirable character to have on a server. But why wouldn't it? At this point it would be really great to see it in practice to see both how well it's received and whether Willow becomes more wantable and useful. Also, on another note, what's your input on Willow having her lighter be special to her, like Lucy is to Woodie instead of a craftable item to give out to anyone which none practically uses and her getting fire immunity back? What you said seemed to suggest that it doesn't matter if an idea is OP or dumb, that if it makes people like the character better it's the way to go, which is nonsense. Point taken.

There will never, ever be an issue with grass supply unless you fail to protect your resources Newbies who fail to find the desert or the savanna would be screwed over. Yes, there is often a small patch of savanna near portal, but that's small and all of that grass can be dug up and taken away or harvested and before you know it it's nearly night and you have not found a single piece of grass or twig to harvest. What's more, in wilderness you might spawn in the middle of a rocky biome where if all the gekkos have been killed, you'll have an even tougher time finding grass. In the case of no gekkos, the forest nearby the rocky biome would have some grass for you to make a torch.. This is kind of a big theme in the game, keeping your resources safe. You make a grass farm? You have to protect it from burning up. You want your no-harvesting-needed, faster producing grass gekkos to last? You keep stuff away from them that will kill them. If for some reason you fail to do that... you just go back to using regular grass tufts, because unlike other resources, that's actually possible. And that setting you're talking about will not keep grass from growing on the savannas, so again, no matter what happens, you should never realistically end up with no available means of gathering grass. This would work well for single player, but not for multiplayer. This is the very reason why grass, saplings, trees, berry bushes, carrots etc. regrow now in multiplayer.

And seriously, you are way, way, way too preoccupied with griefing. Where on earth are you playing that griefing is this serious an issue? I know it happens; I've seen it, and I've been a victim of it. A few times. It sucks. Then life moved on. Do you run your mouth on servers and make people angry, or put up servers named "NO GRIEFERS" or something like that? Oh, I've encountered it more times than I can remember. And I've encountered it a lot. And I still do.

You haven't used the words "absolute truths" but you damned well act like your opinions are just reality. And no, you shouldn't piss off. You should stop saying things like "there's no other way," or acting like your answers are THE answers Okay, point taken; I should have wrote "I don't see any other way and quite frankly none else has found any way of dealing with greafing so that it doesn't happen in the first place"., or, like, telling people they're scum because they don't play multiplayer games the way you think they're supposed to. That was because I misunderstood what someone said and I apologized for that already. Whether or not you actually feel that your answers are THE answers, that's how you come off, and no manner of disclaimer tacked onto your posts absolves you of how you present yourself and your ideas. Point taken. I'll try to write it differently next time, if it be there. Just like you can't say, "You're a jerk!" and then add "no offense" and it stops being offensive. As much as I would wanna rattle on about this last sentence of yours, it'd be going way off-topic so I'll just agree to disagree, unless you wanna talk about this through in a PM or something.

 

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

1 hour ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Willow? Devs can't balance things right by themselves XD or at least from my experience, both from this game and from one other game. This is why I've made multiple suggestions, taking in as much mechanics of the game into account as possible so that my suggested mechanics don't disrupt game-play too much but at the same time prevent a huge amount of griefing.

Reread: 

What amuses me is the fact that I demonstrate a huge amount of problems with griefing, put up solutions and then the little itty bitty things that make it all a tiny bit of a bummer is reasons for not implementing repercussions. Like "OMgawd I can't light my base on fire anymore!" or "Ugh, this takes a few more hits to destroy than before. Too anoying!!!1!1!!" or "Well, Deerclops can still be lured to base and destroy my base and I don't like and winj winj winj (not realizing the fact that regardless Deerclops will destroy their base and that it's something that can't be dealt with without ruining the challenge)". Like seriously; what would be more important? Dealing with griefers or making things extra-convenient for players? People often say this game's too easy after a while of playing, so, here a challenge that is here thanks to griefers. Enjoy! The question I have is: Would the mechanics for anti-griefing I've proposed disrupt general gameplay and take away certain challenge of the game?

 

How much time, realistically, are you spending insane? Farming nightmare fuel? It's needed in nowhere near the quantities of other resources Dark Swords? Each needs 5 and only has 100 durab per, so we do need quite a bit of it, and there would still be better characters for farming it regardless It wouldn't be; plop down bernie after going insane and he does the job for you. The others would be wasting their time using some more complex method and in result would take more time to farm it, since nightmares take some time to be killed, where as bernie could kill them with like 1 - 3 times of being bitten. As for her lighter, the only thing I find at all useful about it is already exclusively hers, which is cooking food So, then you're all for it being infinite durab? Or something else? Or no opinion on it?. As for her fire immunity... I'll be honest, I really don't know if she needs that back. Its had some pretty OP applications and with Dragonfly being the pain in the ass that is now it would be even more valuable, to a degree I think might actually be excessive. I DO think her fire damage resistance should be stronger, though. If she only took maybe 25% fire damage as opposed to the current 50% and maybe got a few more seconds' grace before suffering any damage, I think that would balance things out better (while still leaving the scalemail somewhat useful to her Scalemail doesn't have to be useful to every single character. There are a ton of items that are useful to some characters and useless to others, like axes for woodie). And... I ****ing hate that freezing insanity thing. Insanity is dangerous and inconvenient enough as it is without it. And I just don't find its applications in combating overheating to be all that compelling; seems more trouble than it's worth, especially with half a dozen M/Goose and their Moslings spawning on the map now. I thought it could work well, but not as it currently does. Perhaps she could go completely freezing in Spring/Autumn when her sanity hits zero, but not when she just goes insane?

If you can't find grassy savannas you're probably going to have a hard time finding the places where grass gekkos will spawn anyway Nope, rocky biomes and mosaics are two other biomes that have gekkos, whilst savannas have none., which is a whole other problem (gekkos really ought to spawn in a few more locations Then they would need to respawn because if some noob/griefer kills some and since you can't be in every ). Also, people should really, really be making it their business to make sure that some of these basic needs like grass and twigs are sitting there waiting for newcomers if they're as concerned about them as they seem to be. Problem is that ain't nobody got time nor the resources to go there every time and bring new resources to the portal. I've tried this and it keeps getting ALL looted by like one or two people, sometimes probably griefers. This is why I suggested Shadow chest, which is basically a structure you can craft via shadow manipulator and which is not flammable and has 6 inventory slots. With it, if you attach a gem to two shadow chests they share inventory. That way, without leaving your base, you could drop off some resources/items into the shadow chest and give them to the newcomer at the portal, solving this problem. The biggest issue would be griefers who would try to hammer it somehow or take out the gem that's attached to it. Wilderness... that's got a whole mess of issues that need addressing. Grass gekkos are the least of its problems. I believe all modes have their problems, though wilderness might be the one with the most in terms of cooperative gameplay, so I would agree on that.

Even if you misunderstood that particular person and apologized to them, you still stated that anybody who isn't "welcoming" to other players is scum. But they are if they're hosting/playing in a PUBLIC server. Not if it's private/where only you play, that's then your own ******* business that none else cares too much about. Like, how is one not a scumbag if they go in a public server, hoard all the resources for themselves and then try to keep away from everybody? Like, you're just ruining others' fun whilst probably not even having fun yourself. What's even the point? If one wants to do that, just going to play single player or on a private server is your direction.

 

[loled]

We still talk about willow griefers? Come on, it was just before 1-2 days a willow  burnt our base. Having or not having immunity didnt help with that.

 

Willow needs buffs. Some people may be cool with her, but many are not, its not like she is the "most OP" thing, just give her something more.

[Faintly Macabre]

On 7/22/2016 at 11:06 AM, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

griefing griefing griefers griefers griefing griefer griefers griefers

This is exactly how and how many times variations of the word "grief" turned up in your most recent post. Look, dude.

You

Are

Doing

Something

Wrong.

I don't know where you're playing or what you're doing when you do but I can only surmise from how fixated you are on them that you are running into a vastly disproportionate number of griefers than others seem to be. At some point, you need to recognize that you're making unwise decisions. Look, I have a lot of free time on my hands, and I play a lot of DST, and I haven't found griefing to be anywhere near so dire and unavoidable a situation as you do, and it... doesn't really seem like anybody else here has either! They've absolutely run into it, but unlike you, it's not all they ever talk about.

On 7/22/2016 at 11:06 AM, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Like seriously; what would be more important? Dealing with griefers or making things extra-convenient for players?

"Making things extra-convenient"? Things are the way they are. The question you should be asking is: what makes more sense? Inconveniencing lots of players to deal with a problem of limited scope, or making it possible for people who have that problem to remove the problem element and undo the damage they've done? In case you haven't noticed, a lot of people are leaning away from the former.

On 7/22/2016 at 11:06 AM, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

[Bernie and Willow stuff]

If Bernie were capable with no assistance whatsoever of killing shadows in the time it takes them to hit him 2-3 times that would be tremendously broken. If that's what you're suggesting, then I change my stance; it's not a pointless idea, it's an unbalanced one. And what are you using dark swords on so much you need piles and piles of nightmare fuel? If you're doing tons of melee combat mid-to-late game, you might be doing it wrong. If you're not pillaging the ruins or killing bosses there's probably a better way to do what you're doing, and even those things should probably be dealt with a better way. No, scalemail doesn't "have to be" useful to every character, but it would probably make sense if it were. It's literally the only boss drop-made item that isn't equally useful to everyone. It's certainly not comparable to a single twig-and-flint-craftable-right-at-the-start axe.

On 7/22/2016 at 11:06 AM, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Nope, rocky biomes and mosaics are two other biomes that have gekkos, whilst savannas have none.

I didn't say they did. What I was implying was that finding the savanna is at least as easy as (probably easier than) finding the rocky or mosaic biomes.

On 7/22/2016 at 11:06 AM, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Then they would need to respawn

No they wouldn't. Savannas still exist, grass still grows there. Whether or not you WANT gekkos to respawn or think they should, they do not need to.

On 7/22/2016 at 11:06 AM, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Problem is that ain't nobody got time nor the resources to go there every time and bring new resources to the portal.

I have time. Lots of people have time. And for every jerk who takes everything out there's at least four or five people who know to take what they need. Seriously, who are you playing with?

On 7/22/2016 at 11:06 AM, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

But they are if they're hosting/playing in a PUBLIC server. Not if it's private/where only you play, that's then your own ******* business that none else cares too much about. Like, how is one not a scumbag if they go in a public server, hoard all the resources for themselves and then try to keep away from everybody? Like, you're just ruining others' fun whilst probably not even having fun yourself. What's even the point?

Nobody who isn't actively harming other people while playing a ****ing video game is a scumbag. Jesus Christ, turn down the srs bzns dial a little. It's a video game. I'm not even sure it would be appropriate to call someone who IS actively being a jerk a scumbag. And how can you possibly hoard ALL the resources? I mean I guess you could screw others on gears, but who's doing that? This hypothetical person is merely being "unwelcoming," they're not being a tyrant. You don't have to want people to be able to freely run in and out of your base to be playing with other people anyway. Maybe you want to be selective in what you care to do with others? There's just so many different ways the game can be played that it's just ludicrous to act like they've all got to play it your way.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

16 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

This is exactly how and how many times variations of the word "grief" turned up in your most recent post. Look, dude. So what? What's your point?

You

Are

Doing

Something

Wrong. Doing what wrong? What are you talking about?

I don't know where you're playing or what you're doing when you do but I can only surmise from how fixated you are on them that you are running into a vastly disproportionate number of griefers than others seem to be Thank YOU seem to be. It seems you clearly have not seen other people post about griefing and their huge issues, like this topic for instance: 

"Making things extra-convenient"? Things are the way they are. The question you should be asking is: what makes more sense? What seems like the wiser decision? Inconveniencing lots of players to deal with a problem of limited scope Implementing mechanics that theoretically have little to no inconveniences to generally nromal players, or making it possible for people who have that problem to remove the problem element and undo the damage they've done  or leaing the problem either not dealt with or when dealt with, losing some significant progress + having to deal with it a lot of the time involving cheating In case you haven't noticed, a lot of people are leaning away from the former. And I am not too sure why. Perhaps it's because of my attitude with my suggestions. But hating the approaches?

If Bernie were capable with no assistance whatsoever of killing shadows in the time it takes them to hit him 2-3 times that would be tremendously broken How would that be broken?. If that's what you're suggesting, then I change my stance; it's not a pointless idea, it's an unbalanced one How is it?. And what are you using dark swords on so much you need piles and piles of nightmare fuel? If you're doing tons of melee combat mid-to-late game, you might be doing it wrong Who are you to tell me what kind of game-play is right or wrong in terms of melee? A lot of pros use dark swords as their primary melee weapon late-game. Otherwise the weapon would be practically useless as the amount of effort getting one would be too high in comparison to what you get back from it. This is why you need a lot of nightmare fuel. In single player, you could get a lot from ruins, but since now whenever nightmare cycle ends in DST nightmares don't drop nightmare fuel, night lights have become a tad bit less useful and Dark Swords have become a tad bit harder to come by late-game. For instance, in a single-player game I could go down to ruins and get over a stack of nightmare fuel in like 1 - 2 minutes and have stored away nearly a full chest of it and have plenty more of it lying around down in the ruins, where as in DST, even at late game you'd spend the same amount of time to get about enough nightmare fuel for one to two dark swords and as it currently stands me and those I play with can't get past 3 stacks of nightmare fuel and often end up needing more and more of it farmed up for dark swords.. If you're not pillaging the ruins Ruins, as I previously mentioned will not highly increase your nightmare fuel amount. Unless you can SOMEHOW kill a bunch of nightmares one after another, then you're talking trash here. or killing bosses We're doing that all the time; Gmooses during Spring, Dragonly (although we use ham bats for that as it has infinite durab that would do the deed for the fight), Bearger and deerclops. All of these have increase hp, btw and one Dark Sword can deal only a maximum of 6800 damage as it only has 100 durability. there's probably a better way to do what you're doing, and even those things should probably be dealt with a better way Again, who are you to say about how I should melee? And what the hell are you even talking about? The mindset I've noticed for myself and those I play with as well as some other pros I know (e.g. Volx) in terms of melee weapons is to use Dark sword, if not then use whatever else is available, e.g. Tentacle spike, Battle Spear, Bat Bat etc.. No, scalemail doesn't "have to be" useful to every character, but it would probably make sense if it were "probably make sense if it were"? What? Why?. It's literally the only boss drop-made item that isn't equally useful to everyone What? It's equally useful to everyone as it stands, even to Willow. Unless she gets fire immunity back, THEN it would not be equal. But why should it? Because "it makes sense"? That statement has no ground to it whatsoever!. It's certainly not comparable to a single twig-and-flint-craftable-right-at-the-start axe. Yes... yes it is. Scalemail in fact is extremely easy to get because scales can easily be farmed from the Dragonfly. And you're forgetting Golden Axes and possibly even Pick Axes (although they're pretty much useless to other players as well because of how expensive they are/troublesome to get in comparison to their durabiliy).

I didn't say they did. What I was implying was that finding the savanna is at least as easy as (probably easier than) finding the rocky or mosaic biomes.The savanna you'll find first is very small. All of the grass there could be picked up by the time you enter; you could enter just before dusk comes, have no light source at all, go find the savanna, but all grass has been picked and won't regrow until tomorrow and all gekkos have been picked. NOW what do you do? You'll simply die from the night unless you exit the game because it goes dark, which is kind of cheating, tbh.

No they wouldn't. Savannas still exist, grass still grows there. Whether or not you WANT gekkos to respawn or think they should, they do not need to. The problem, as I pointed out is that in that case, if you can't find a savanna where grass hasn't already been picked recently or can't find a desert in time, you'll be pretty much screwed if all the gekkos have been killed off. This is a serious problem for newbies. And, a point I forgot to complete was that killing all the gekkos could be done by griefers and unless you pen in all the gekkos in one place and protect them ever so eagerly from literally everything, they will inevitably get killed. And penning all of them would be pointless, since letting other newbies who're exploring the world to get grass from them would be important, but if they're left there unguarded then some griefers can just kill them. This is why they need to respawn for multiplayer; because of griefers for the sake of newbies as nobody has the time, patience or the will to take care of all the gekkos in every part of the world all the time. Like seriously!

I have time. Lots of people have time. And for every jerk who takes everything out there's at least four or five people who know to take what they need. Seriously, who are you playing with? I recently encountered two people who have had trouble with grouped-vote-kicking griefers. Something I've NEVER encountered before. And multiple other people have pointed it out to be a problem too. Just because you haven't encountered it as much, doesn't mean others have not and basing your conclusions merely on your own experience is just extremely closed-minded in such a situation as this.

Nobody who isn't actively harming other people while playing a ****ing video game is a scumbag. Yes they are. Jesus Christ, turn down the srs bzns dial a little. Nope. It's a video game. I know. I'm not even sure it would be appropriate to call someone who IS actively being a jerk a scumbag. Oh so you can do whatever the hell you want to other players in a video game, but you can't call someone a jerk even when it's true. Flawless logic right there! Amazing! And how can you possibly hoard ALL the resources? I mean I guess you could screw others on gears, but who's doing that? Gears, but OIGSKIN is the most endagered here, because pros tend to hammer pig houses and once there's none left, nobody can get more pig skin for helmets and even more importantly UMBRELLAS. This hypothetical person is merely being "unwelcoming," they're not being a tyrant. You don't have to want people to be able to freely run in and out of your base to be playing with other people anyway. Maybe you want to be selective in what you care to do with others? There's just so many different ways the game can be played that it's just ludicrous to act like they've all got to play it your way. There are, but there's a clear distinction between generally trying to tell others "shooo, gtf away from my base >:(" and "Hello! Need help? Take what you need to survive." And the point I wanted to bring up is "DST is about cooperation, in the case of PvP a competitiong of surviving and fighting. If in PvE you're trying to avoid players on a public server, WHAT IS THE POINT OF EVEN PLAYING THERE THEN? Other players hate you being there, you're there for no reason whatsoever because you're not even trying to cooperate with others, so why would you not gtfo to play on a private server or play single player instead if you just hate everybody?!"

 

[Faintly Macabre]

@EuedeAdodooedoe I'm done with you. You have the reasoning, comprehension, and empathy of a pre-adolescent child. Make all the stupid suggestions you want.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

10 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

@EuedeAdodooedoe I'm done with you. You have the reasoning, comprehension, and empathy of a pre-adolescent child. Make all the stupid suggestions you want.

If you say so  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[WillowCrocker]

[Arlesienne]

Where is Axehilt when we need him... This discussion would be interesting with his insight. I do not want to disturb you all, but I always thought Maxwell was best for farming nightmare fuel, with Abigail in the caves being your runner-up. What has changed? I would say Willow is the best scout and charcoal farmer. Bernie has been pretty buffed recently too, defending other players too.

Besides... The game is all about the players behind the characters. Anyone can grief and only, say, intellectually-challenged individuals will keep accusing poor Willows while making a torch is so easy.

A sudden serious deficiency of some resource should at worst be handled by the admin if you ask me. Hounds attack anything, so why should they spare gekkos? Tallbirds are seriously territorial, they even eliminate competition in form of adolescent smallbirds, so from an ecological standpoint, I cannot fathom why they would spare the neutral gekkos (with no retaliation techniques whatsoever).

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

30 minutes ago, Arlesienne said:

Where is Axehilt when we need him... This discussion would be interesting with his insight. I do not want to disturb you all, but I always thought Maxwell was best for farming nightmare fuel, with Abigail in the caves being your runner-up. What has changed? I would say Willow is the best scout and charcoal farmer. Bernie has been pretty buffed recently too, defending other players too.

Besides... The game is all about the players behind the characters. Anyone can grief and only, say, intellectually-challenged individuals will keep accusing poor Willows while making a torch is so easy.

A sudden serious deficiency of some resource should at worst be handled by the admin if you ask me. Hounds attack anything, so why should they spare gekkos? Tallbirds are seriously territorial, they even eliminate competition in form of adolescent smallbirds, so from an ecological standpoint, I cannot fathom why they would spare the neutral gekkos (with no retaliation techniques whatsoever).

@Axehilt? Who's that? Maxwell for farming nightmare fuel? How exactly? Do his shadows attack nightmares too? Even so then, having Bernie kill/deal damage to shadows when they attack him would prove to be a lot more useful. Someone could just go insane for a day or so, place down Bernie and see the nightmare fuel get farmed! And why would Willow be the best charcoal farmer? Anybody can farm charcoal just the same, there's literally no difference other than the fact that she has 3 seconds and not like half a second of not losing hp from burning/being near fire and losing 50% less hp when it comes to actually being burnt. This doesn't really do much in terms of charcoal farming. Nobody really today has problems with nightmares, unless you're pro. Giving Bernie to actually kill nightmares/damage nightmares upon him being hit would prove to not only be useful for newbies but for pros too.

That is true. Does not beat the fact that a lot of people are still skeptical of Willows. And quite often griefers do take Willow to grief. Like I would say it's at least 50% of the time, the other 50% being Webbers, Wilsons, Wickerbottoms or whatever other characters, cause I've had those too, and I'm sure others have too.

If they kill them, then gekkos respawning would be necessary. Otherwise they might kill them without you even having explored that area much. Or some other person briefly glimpsing at them and then later they all get killed by tallbirds/hounds.Or a griefer/newbie killing them on purpose for killing grass supply for newbies and possibly some late-mid game players/for the sake of getting some meat or just for lolz.

 

[GiddyGuy]

53 minutes ago, Arlesienne said:

Where is Axehilt when we need him... This discussion would be interesting with his insight.

Spoiler

 

21 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Giving Bernie to actually kill nightmares/damage nightmares upon him being hit would prove to not only be useful for newbies but for pros too.

I will agree with you on one thing there, Bernie is what I'd like to call a good noob item it'll distract nightmares while the insane person can work on getting sane or run away, but you could make the argument that he could become very useful if you go insane while fighting a deerclops but I have not been able to experience such a luxury. 

Edit: I forgot to mention that it's a good noob item, cause if you already know how to kite nightmares then you really don't have a good need for it other than fighting say a giant and you go insane and need him to distract the nightmares.

[NeddoFreddo]

On 21/07/2016 at 6:22 AM, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

If shadow creatures died as soon as they chomped on Bernie

But... then you could build like 50 Bernies and have a nightmare fuel farm. It would be nice if he did a little bit of damage... but not an insta-kill.

[Arlesienne]

10 hours ago, NeddoFreddo said:

But... then you could build like 50 Bernies and have a nightmare fuel farm. It would be nice if he did a little bit of damage... but not an insta-kill.

Definitely no insta-kill. That would really be overpowered.

[AlternateMew]

I feel like buffing Bernie is not the way to make Willow desirable. It's the way to make the bear desirable.

Look at some of the other characters' special abilities, and what happens when they leave:

Wickerbottom: Without her, her books are useless junk.
Wigfrid: No Wigfrid, no more cheap battle supplies. Spears especially, since those should break more often.
Webber: There goes your silk/monster meat/gland farmer. Without him, you need to fight spiders the old-fashioned way.
Wes: Yes, Wes. Who doesn't like balloons? No Wes, no balloons.
Woodie: There goes a good gatherer that makes picks and axes optional.
WX-78: Ehhhh... garbage disposal? And a powerful ally if you get him gears and lightning.
Maxwell: Same as Woodie, just with a different method. He still needs to have tools, but his minions will leave with him.
Wendy: No Wendy, no Abigail.

Willow: Hey look, the skeletal remains of a Willow who quit! Cool, I'll take her bear.

 

My point: Buff her, not her teddy. I quite like a suggestion I saw in the other Willow thread: Instead of the Fire Starter, make her the Fire Master. Similar to how Webber can use his quirk to live with spiders or safely slaughter them all, Willow could have more control over her flames. Give her immunity back. Let her be her own anti-grief and give her the ability to extinguish flames far more easily than others. Maybe allow her to light a campfire without fuel. Something, anything to make her pyromania work with a group. Her thing is fire, so make the fire something to desire.

[GiddyGuy]

6 hours ago, AlternateMew said:

Wickerbottom: Without her, her books are useless junk.

I think you should change that to, "Without her your supply of books will run out, shortly." because Maxwell players can read her books but I get what you're saying.

6 hours ago, AlternateMew said:

Webber: There goes your silk/monster meat/gland farmer.

Don't worry we always got that Wendy player being edgy in the corner, but I will admit he does have good synergy with Wickerbottom's On tentacles book.

[AnonymousKoala]

2 hours ago, GiddyGuy said:

 

Don't worry we always got that Wendy player being edgy in the corner, but I will admit he does have good synergy with Wickerbottom's On tentacles book.

Webber does it faster and easier though.

Also the fact he can safely eat monster meat can make him pretty good at travelling away from base for something, as all he needs really is the basics, and dirt cheap monster meat. 

[AlternateMew]

2 hours ago, GiddyGuy said:

I think you should change that to, "Without her your supply of books will run out, shortly." because Maxwell players can read her books but I get what you're saying.

Don't worry we always got that Wendy player being edgy in the corner, but I will admit he does have good synergy with Wickerbottom's On tentacles book.

Maxwell can do that? Well, today I learned! Point still stands though, since they're the only two who can use them. If they're gone, all you have is some junk on the ground.

[Stonetribe]

This has probably been suggested somewhere before, but what if Willow's fire immunity also gave her an innate resistance to overheating? It could provide insulation and delay it sort of like Wilson/Webber/Woodie's beard does with freezing.