Your opinion on Klei dealing with greifing

[K5dV]

I've asked the community on their opinions on some various issues before, but this one is a little different. What is your opinion on Klei dealing with greifing? By this, I want your opinions on the various ways Klei has dealt with griefing, or on the ways Klei could deal with griefing.(ex. Willow getting nerfed, fire being tweaked, etc). 

My opinion: 

Rather than changing characters to deal with griefing (excluding the Woodie change, without the werebeaver getting changed servers would be wastelands) I feel Klei should be doing subtler things. For example, making grass tufts and saplings unable to be burnt by players. 

On Klei making a global blacklist for griefers:

I am not against the idea of a global ban list, but it would have to meet a few requirements:

- A person may only be added to said ban list after valid video evidence is provided. 

- Servers choose to enable or disable the ban list (if the ban list is toggled on, players who are on the global ban list cannot join). 

- People can appeal their ban, or after a certain number of days (31 days for example) a player is unbanned from the ban list. 

Fire being tweaked: 

I like the idea of fires being slower to start, the issue is that in the early game (especially on pubs) people don't have the equipment to fight fires. If I'm in a pub and someone starts burning the base down, I can only watch as everything burns if the fire gets out of control. I like how you can stop fires if you can extinguish them early, but players need more ways to put out fires if they get out of control in the early game. These ways to extinguish fires don't have to be incredibly efficient, but players need something to prevent their base from being burnt to a crisp before they get a flingomatic. A very simple fix could be changing fire so that fire spread by a player (ex. Willow's lighter) cannot burn down player made structures. Other things like making lightning less likely to strike nonrenewable resources would be nice. 

Willow getting nerfed:

I think this change was almost irrelevant. Giving her lighter a durability doesn't matter, since most griefers log off once they achieve their goal of maximum havoc. The fire resistance isn't a huge deal, since most people light up something and run away. I am all for Willow getting an ability that lets her absorb fire or suck it into her lighter to restore it's durability. This would make Willow a very viable character if her absorbing fire could restore sanity or health, it could also reduce griefing by creating a dedicated firefighting character. 

 

[SuperPsiPower]

Play on passworded servers with friends or Play on Public servers and seclude yourself. I reccomend  Strictly Unprofessional, I play there all the time! And @artemiyME takes griefing seriously and bans those who break rules.

 

And about the banlist, I dont think Klei wants to go down that route and instead wants to take this time to improve the game rather then start a whole new process of blacklisting and banning people. I mean, we're still in Early Access..

 

[NotStarvnMarvn]

19 minutes ago, MiniKeeper said:

Rather than directly changing things like characters (excluding the Woodie change, without the werebeaver getting changed servers would be wastelands) I feel Klei should be doing subtler things. For example, making grass tufts and dug up saplings unable to be burnt in a campfires. Other things like making lightning less likely to strike nonrenewable resources would be nice.

What does that have to do with characters griefing?

[K5dV]

2 minutes ago, Dylan738 said:

What does that have to do with characters griefing?

Rather than changing characters to deal with griefing, Klei should change other things. 

[NotStarvnMarvn]

Just now, MiniKeeper said:

Rather than changing characters to deal with griefing, Klei should change other things. 

But how would those changes stop/prevent griefing? Lightning had nothing to do with grieding and making dug-up grass/twig tufts would do almost nothing because griefers usually just burn the planted ones.

[SuperPsiPower]

3 minutes ago, Dylan738 said:

But how would those changes stop/prevent griefing? Lightning had nothing to do with grieding and making dug-up grass/twig tufts would do almost nothing because griefers usually just burn the planted ones.

Maxwell is the best griefer. He just loves striking people's stuff with lightning!

All jokes aside, I believe that characters do deserve a rebalance of some sort. But some people just need to realize that sometimes having your stuff unintentionally burned is just apart of the game. :/

[K5dV]

2 minutes ago, Dylan738 said:

But how would those changes stop/prevent griefing? Lightning had nothing to do with grieding and making dug-up grass/twig tufts would do almost nothing because griefers usually just burn the planted ones.

In hindsight, lightning shouldn't have been posted there. The first part of the post didn't actually make much sense, but I edited it. 

 

[Bahlsen]

I think the social/cooperative etc gamestyle option works, I've played a few times since this implementation and...no griefers. I like to think that it's harder for someone to choose cooperative and then grief, it's like ticking a "I want to be an official douchebag" box.

 

[Iris]

It's not Klei's responsibility to "deal" with griefing. An official ban list of any sort would be ridiculous and a waste of Klei's time and resources. It's the responsibility of the server admins to manage their server and its users. This is why kicking, banning, and rollbacks were included for admins to utilize. 

Changing overall game mechanics because of the occasional griefer is also nonsensical. If these are changes you desire, the game is moddable and you can make use of that freedom, or you can play the game on private servers/group servers with active admins. Klei is here to create and develop a game, not to babysit the community. 

[KitcheVadimas]

2 hours ago, Bahlsen said:

I think the social/cooperative etc gamestyle option works, I've played a few times since this implementation and...no griefers. I like to think that it's harder for someone to choose cooperative and then grief, it's like ticking a "I want to be an official douchebag" box.

 

I once played on an unmodded 'cooperative' server without any present admins, and came across 3 greifers in 1 play session.

[KitcheVadimas]

4 hours ago, MiniKeeper said:

On Klei making a global blacklist for griefers:

I am not against the idea of a global ban list, but it would have to meet a few requirements:

- A person may only be added to said ban list after valid video evidence is provided. 

- Servers choose to enable or disable the ban list (if the ban list is toggled on, players who are on the global ban list cannot join). 

- People can appeal their ban, or after a certain number of days (31 days for example) a player is unbanned from the ban list. 

I have several problems with this method, the biggest is the difficultly in getting video evidence.  Not everybody has a video capture software, and almost nobody runs it even most of the time they play.  90% of greifs would be not be captured on video, and it would take time for that video to be reviewed by somebody, and for the greifer to be tracked down and added to the banlist.  That video also likely lacks the greifer's steam account, or their KU_id, so even if you got video evidence, he/she would be very difficult to track down, possibly resulting in someone else getting banned.  

A reputation system would be better, as well as easier to use, for both players and devs.  Just add upvotes and downvotes, and a rep number to a player on the tab menu, and at -20 or so reputation, the player is banned from all servers that aren't on chaos, unless he/she made the server.  At -1, the player cannot leave the server with items, they will be dropped. At -5 or so, a different server join announcement says that that player is shifty.  At -10, the player cannot hammer or burn anything other than trees.  Negative reputation will go back up, at 1 reputation every day or so, or with player-given upvotes.

[GiddyGuy]

5 hours ago, MiniKeeper said:

I feel Klei should be doing subtler things. For example, making grass tufts and saplings unable to be burnt by players. 

Well for one this would make surviving winter harder cause you wouldn't be able to burn grass tufts or saplings for warmth.

5 hours ago, MiniKeeper said:

Rather than changing characters to deal with griefing (excluding the Woodie change, without the werebeaver getting changed servers would be wastelands)

I'm pretty sure he can still go Werebeaver and dig up and eat saplings grass tufts, and destroy structures hammerless free(WHY CAN HE DO THIS @KLEIDEVS).

5 hours ago, MiniKeeper said:

I like how you can stop fires if you can extinguish them early, but players need more ways to put out fires if they get out of control in the early game. These ways to extinguish fires don't have to be incredibly efficient, but players need something to prevent their base from being burnt to a crisp before they get a flingomatic.

You can get water balloons from killing a mosquito and filling it up at a pond (if you can't get another sac and 2? ice) and get ice from early game glaciers to put out fires that did not get extinguished while it was smoldering.

5 hours ago, MiniKeeper said:

I am all for Willow getting an ability that lets her absorb fire or suck it into her lighter to restore it's durability. This would make Willow a very viable character if her absorbing fire could restore sanity or health, it could also reduce griefing by creating a dedicated firefighting character. 

I think this is a great suggestion you made because just cause she is called fire starter doesn't mean she can't also be the fire stopper!...(please don't hurt I'm fragile) however I think it should take hp away and give sanity (a pint or one?) instead of restoring durability cause that would be just too op and become a infinite lighter again. 

TL:DR Werebeaver built in hammer, water balloons, need burned grass tufts to survive winter, ire fighter Willow pls.

1 hour ago, KitcheVadimas said:

A reputation system would be better, as well as easier to use, for both players and devs.  Just add upvotes and downvotes, and a rep number to a player on the tab menu, and at -20 or so reputation, the player is banned from all servers that aren't on chaos, unless he/she made the server.  At -1, the player cannot leave the server with items, they will be dropped. At -5 or so, a different server join announcement says that that player is shifty.  At -10, the player cannot hammer or burn anything other than trees.  Negative reputation will go back up, at 1 reputation every day or so, or with player-given upvotes.

I feel like this could be abused examples: HUR HUR I'M GONNA DOWN VOTE THIS GUY/GIRL FOR NO REASON, wow this guys is being a real *sshole to me in the chat I'm gonna down vote him even tho he's trying to survive like me and not greifing anyone, HEY I'm gonna be nice guy and get my rep really high then start greifing servers and high resist to downvotes I'll be untouchable.

[TemporaryMan]

A reputation system might work... if there wasn't a way to game it or maliciously trash people's reputations.  Twenty-five griefers decide to give everyone -rep (and 1 writes a bot to automate it), nearly everyone gets banned from all non-chaos servers and we're right back at the start.

[KitcheVadimas]

10 hours ago, TemporaryMan said:

A reputation system might work... if there wasn't a way to game it or maliciously trash people's reputations.  Twenty-five griefers decide to give everyone -rep (and 1 writes a bot to automate it), nearly everyone gets banned from all non-chaos servers and we're right back at the start.

Greifers tend to be an unorganized bunch.  You might get 2 or 3 at a time, but not 20.  Creating a greif-bot is something that is likely extremely rare, esp. if it's not an aimbot or something, but rather something that messes with the reputation accepting only 1 vote per player.  Yes, greifers will of course give everyone they meet -1 rep, but the consequences for having -1 to -9 rep are very small for this reason.

[K5dV]

6 hours ago, GiddyGuy said:

Well for one this would make surviving winter harder cause you wouldn't be able to burn grass tufts or saplings for warmth.

You should never have to burn nonrenewable resources to survive. You can always burn trees. Don't ruin other people's chaces of living just so you can stay warm for an extra ten seconds. 

I'm pretty sure he can still go Werebeaver and dig up and eat saplings grass tufts, and destroy structures hammerless free(WHY CAN HE DO THIS @KLEIDEVS).

Hopefully Klei fixes the werebeaver thing soon. I find it weird they prevented ghosts from briefing just to let the wear beaver stay in unchanged. 

 

[K5dV]

7 hours ago, KitcheVadimas said:

 

A reputation system would be better, as well as easier to use, for both players and devs.  Just add upvotes and downvotes, and a rep number to a player on the tab menu, and at -20 or so reputation, the player is banned from all servers that aren't on chaos, unless he/she made the server.  At -1, the player cannot leave the server with items, they will be dropped. At -5 or so, a different server join announcement says that that player is shifty.  At -10, the player cannot hammer or burn anything other than trees.  Negative reputation will go back up, at 1 reputation every day or so, or with player-given upvotes.

This reputation idea is very promising. I hope Klei does something like this. 

[GiddyGuy]

6 hours ago, MiniKeeper said:

This reputation idea is very promising. I hope Klei does something like this. 

So I'm guessing you didn't read what I said...what ever it's not like they're gonna add a reputation system.  

[K5dV]

39 minutes ago, GiddyGuy said:

So I'm guessing you didn't read what I said...what ever it's not like they're gonna add a reputation system.  

Any system like this can and probably will be abused. But as an example of giving players power, look at vote-kicking. 

Vote kicking is sometimes abused, but most people use it the right way. Anything people can abuse they usually will, but that's something we have to accept. Also, trolls who just downvote everything wouldn't make a huge difference, since you lose downvotes every x amount of time. 

14 hours ago, GiddyGuy said:

 

I feel like this could be abused examples: HUR HUR I'M GONNA DOWN VOTE THIS GUY/GIRL FOR NO REASON, wow this guys is being a real *sshole to me in the chat I'm gonna down vote him even tho he's trying to survive like me and not greifing anyone, HEY I'm gonna be nice guy and get my rep really high then start greifing servers and high resist to downvotes I'll be untouchable.

In your example, you stated how people might get their reputation very high by playing nice, then start griefing. I can guarantee very few people would actually spend their time doing this. Most griefers are impatient and lack motivation to do something like this. It could take hours or even days to rack up such a high rep, and even then, you get downvoted a lot more easily than upvoted. An easy way to prevent this from happening is to just make it so that you lose 1 upvote and downvote ever x amount of time.  

[VexTheHex]

 Willow isn't a subject I really know what to say on. On one hand I see why she was an issue. On the other hand, she really feels lacking now and I got a friend who is annoyed they messed with her character. A "fire starter" doesn't really work out in multiplayer where you have other people's thoughts on what all your burning down. And her sanity fires made her a worse pick than Wes to me. Infinite light source also sounds pretty broken in multiplayer with other characters being able to access it as well. Honestly, I personally always thought Wendy would of been the better mascot for Together. Willow is basically Female Wilson in design and lacks much contrast in looks. She also quickly became hated and feared and then changed to the point she loss her biggest perk and drawback. #Wendy4Mascot

 

 As for a reputation system? Nah. You know all those people who join on Day 3 and demand to be taken to base would be quick to down vote. Those people who join in the middle of Winter as Willow and ask for directions to base. Don't worry they arrive at base insane and burn down your base cause they needed a fire. Or you know anybody who joins and proceeds to demand an escort to base? I'd be down voted by them for sure cause someone taking you to their base is not something anyone is obligated to do. So, I don't wind up trusting too many people as trolls and moochers are often the ones who want escorted. On one public server we had 2 Willows and a Wolfgang move in on one evening. They sat at base eating all the food raw in the ice box. We packed up part of the supplies and went to a new location. I even dug up my carpet, which upset one of the Willows.

 

 

[Mobbstar]

I feel the need to say something on the matter, but VexTheHex took the words right out of my mouth...

Besides the awful initial Willow nerf and the Beaverness Bodge, I sincerely don't think Klei could do much better in this aspect.

[ehmeh]

In my opinion, I feel that if an individual, in this case being a griefer, is kicked after "x" amount of times, they should become automatically banned. 3 - 5 times being kicked is around the ideal range imo.

[HeilerderWelten]

On 26.3.2016 at 0:36 PM, ehmeh said:

In my opinion, I feel that if an individual, in this case being a griefer, is kicked after "x" amount of times, they should become automatically banned. 3 - 5 times being kicked is around the ideal range imo.

I get kicked from a server in 8 of 10 cases in the first 5-10 seconds (before I even choose my character)

... many hosts love kicking I assume T_T

Normally I play DST just alone or with my wife on my/her hosted servers,

it is just not fun to get kicked 6 times in a row.

[Asparagus]

8 minutes ago, HeilerderWelten said:

I get kicked from a server in 8 of 10 cases in the first 5-10 seconds (before I even choose my character)

... many hosts love kicking I assume T_T

Normally I play DST just alone or with my wife on my/her hosted servers,

it is just not fun to get kicked 6 times in a row.

Is there a European Klei Hosted Dedicated Server? Dedicated servers don't usually get you banned in that quick amount of time... O__O

I pope you get to go in a good server and meet other nice players  

[HeilerderWelten]

3 minutes ago, Asparagus said:

Is there a European Klei Hosted Dedicated Server? Dedicated servers don't usually get you banned in that quick amount of time... O__O

I pope you get to go in a good server and meet other nice players  

I was on a nice server few months ago, it was something with gingerbread...or something similiar,

from time to time people join my or my wifes servers, DarkXero and Flare visited us a month ago ^__^

[Asparagus]

Gingerbread Cookies? @Gingerbread's servers are a nice place to play in  I don't lag as much there :3