Your opinion on ghosts draining sanity

[K5dV]

Since asking the community their opinion of PvP went surprisingly well, I'm asking another slightly controversial question. Your opinion on ghosts draining sanity. 

My opinion: 

In public servers - The drain in pubs can be very taxing on your sanity, especially because newer players pick flowers like madmen. This leaves me to living off green caps, since there usually isn't a bee box where I can get honey. I understand 5 sanity/minute is supposed to be an incentive to revive players, but it's irritating since I'm usually halfway across the map from the player who is dead. 

In co-op - The drain is irrelevant since I can usually manage to revive my teammates relatively quickly with hearts. Though if I can't revive them I may lose quite a bit of sanity before I can revive them. 

[Zeklo]

It doesn't entice me to try Webber whatsoever.

Plus the so called incentive seems to have backfired from what I have seen. People just get annoyed and yell at you to leave. 

[Serph]

I never liked the ghost / sanity drain / resurrection mechanic. With 3 ghosts, it stacks to -10 per minute which is extremely annoying. You have to stop everything you're doing to get a gland, throw 40 hp away and search the player. And what do you get in return? 80 sanity! Wow what a great reward! (If only i hadn't lost 300 sanity in my way to ressurrect this guy it would be useful)

I love helping everyone out but sometimes it's too much, i cant be at every place and time with full hp. One time i was playing in a server with these 2 friends dying almost every few days, they didn't seem bad people but had no common sense at all, picking fights with everything and dying of starvation. It went to a point the other 2 experienced players refused to resurrect them and only i was the one who kept doing it and they started complaining about me wasting resources. Other time it was a server with +10 players and there were always at least 2 dead, it's almost unplayable.

Instead of promoting "cooperation" where players try their best to help each other out, if gives the idea that you're being punished by other players' mistakes and you're forced to resurrect then to not go insane. Not to mention, it's very easy to grief simply by staying AFK as a ghost in some cave or haunting in hopes of lighting the base on fire (i've seen both cases). A very flawed system in my opinion.

Also:

1 hour ago, Zeklo said:

Plus the so called incentive seems to have backfired from what I have seen. People just get annoyed and yell at you to leave. 

This.

Happened alot when i was a scrub...

[Gelatous]

I personally have no problem with the sanity drain, but from the looks of it a lot of other people seem to get quite upset about it (which is always amusing)

That being said, I think there should be something more creative happening when players die, such as spectating other players, turning into some kind of harmful/helpful creature (like in Mario Kart Balloon Battle when eliminated players come back as a Bob-Omb), possessing a nearby mob to run around as, or being banished to a different realm (Underworld?) requiring you to escape it to return. Perhaps let the player choose from those depending on how many days the person has survived? Right now there's not a whole lot to do as a ghost.

[MenaAthena]

10 minutes ago, Gelatous said:

Right now there's not a whole lot to do as a ghost.

I think that's the point. Being a ghost is boring because we don't want dying to be incentivized.

Personally, I was kind of on the fence about sanity drain. I can see the reason why it was added in, but the replies above make good points about how it backfired.

[GiddyGuy]

25 minutes ago, Gelatous said:

possessing a nearby mob to run around as

This would be so fun to do in a pvp survival server.

 

26 minutes ago, Gelatous said:

or being banished to a different realm (Underworld?) requiring you to escape it to return.

New caves? SURE!

[JohaneBrote]

2 hours ago, Gelatous said:

I personally have no problem with the sanity drain, but from the looks of it a lot of other people seem to get quite upset about it (which is always amusing)

That's just the thing. For an experienced player it's a lot easier to live with the sanity drain and ignore the ghosts until they leave than it is to sacrifice resources and health on a daily basis to revive them. The whole system is basically punishing cooperation instead of encouraging it.

As for the number of ghosts being high on public servers, one of the biggest contributing factors (aside from newbies forgetting to take care of their stats and/or wandering into the night without a torch) IMO would be people joining during hostile seasons, mainly winter. If the server is big enough, you'll easily get 5 people at the portal demanding to be escorted to a base and given food and winter gear. Most of the time nobody obliges and congrats, now you have 5 dead people demanding to be resurrected, then escorted to a base and given food and winter gear.

[BeastNips]

I think it's probably worth better sign posting Endless servers for inexperienced players. Survival servers should be clearly labeled as a place for intermediate players. After this Survival servers should be tweaked to include a perma-death for players that have been on the server for less than X number of days. For example: MrWinterWarrior joins the server on day 28 in the height of Winter, dies to the cold in the first night; instead of becoming a ghost he is ejected from the server. He has the option to rejoin, but he'll be sent back to the character screen. Obviously this would discourage new players, which is why Endless and Survival servers need to be clearly labeled as Beginner and Intermediate. 

On a side note...

When the discussion about death mechanics was first taking place before the beta release I suggested that ghosts have more functionality. I first compared ghosts to going insane: a negative change of state in game play that is necessary to collected certain resources (beard hair and nightmare fuel); my suggestion being that at some point a player has to become a ghost to collect something (ectoplasm?) in order to make a particular structure/item etc. 

Secondly I suggested that ghost resurrection be more tough (I think the telltale heart was a fairly bad move) but there be more to do as a ghost. At the moment a ghost can be an excellent scout as they can explore without penalties from night, hunger or temperature. I also suggested a presto-hat level magic structure called a corporeal field generator which would allow a ghost to transition back into the world of the living while in a certain radius of the structure; this would allow a ghost to tend the base while dead. I would keep the sanity drain but prevent it from stacking. This effectively means that the ghost has something to do while dead while everyone either looks for a touchstone, or works toward constructing a meat effigy. 

[The Letter W]

4 hours ago, Gelatous said:

being banished to a different realm (Underworld?) requiring you to escape it to return. 

all i can think of is the unknown from over the garden wall. a lot like the real world except some things are just a little... off? maybe like the nightmare season people have suggested time and time again.

then i guess it's a matter of how you would 'escape', do you find your spot of death? do you have to defeat a certain creature? either or? to be quite honest, i think this idea could be expanded on! 

 

Led through the mist
By the milk light of moon
All that was lost is revealed...

[Serph]

 

1 hour ago, JohaneBrote said:

As for the number of ghosts being high on public servers, one of the biggest contributing factors (aside from newbies forgetting to take care of their stats and/or wandering into the night without a torch) IMO would be people joining during hostile seasons, mainly winter. If the server is big enough, you'll easily get 5 people at the portal demanding to be escorted to a base and given food and winter gear. Most of the time nobody obliges and congrats, now you have 5 dead people demanding to be resurrected, then escorted to a base and given food and winter gear.

3/4 of the seasons are "hostile" and there isn't much newbies can do about it. Join in winter? Freeze. Join in summer? Overheat. Join in Spring? Get wet and freeze/insane. All dead at portal. Yes, you can survive a bit in spring/summer if you make a straw hat + parasol ASAP but you can't expect a newcomer to know that.

I can tell from experience that dying without any idea why and having everyone yelling you to quit isn't fun. That's why i try to keep everyone alive. Most of the time, these newbies aren't worth the effort but i hope they learn from it and don't hate the game. Besides, the struggle is fun. Basically Hard Mode .

 

10 minutes ago, BeastNips said:

I think it's probably worth better sign posting Endless servers for inexperienced players. Survival servers should be clearly labeled as a place for intermediate players. After this Survival servers should be tweaked to include a perma-death for players that have been on the server for less than X number of days. For example: MrWinterWarrior joins the server on day 28 in the height of Winter, dies to the cold in the first night; instead of becoming a ghost he is ejected from the server. He has the option to rejoin, but he'll be sent back to the character screen. Obviously this would discourage new players, which is why Endless and Survival servers need to be clearly labeled as Beginner and Intermediate. 

On a side note...

When the discussion about death mechanics was first taking place before the beta release I suggested that ghosts have more functionality. I first compared ghosts to going insane: a negative change of state in game play that is necessary to collected certain resources (beard hair and nightmare fuel); my suggestion being that at some point a player has to become a ghost to collect something (ectoplasm?) in order to make a particular structure/item etc. 

Secondly I suggested that ghost resurrection be more tough (I think the telltale heart was a fairly bad move) but there be more to do as a ghost. At the moment a ghost can be an excellent scout as they can explore without penalties from night, hunger or temperature. I also suggested a presto-hat level magic structure called a corporeal field generator which would allow a ghost to transition back into the world of the living while in a certain radius of the structure; this would allow a ghost to tend the base while dead. I would keep the sanity drain but prevent it from stacking. This effectively means that the ghost has something to do while dead while everyone either looks for a touchstone, or works toward constructing a meat effigy. 

I don't agree with these. Survival is the default choice, the one you should learn to play. Automatically ejecting the player from the server for dying would make this community even more elitist and completely goes again what cooperation is supposed to mean. What if i wanted to res that player? I can't because he "deserved to be kicked"?

Ghosts are awful scouts, zero vision at night, no road bonus speed and no map discovery. If you need ghosts to acess unique items or give them the ability to be useful without other players, people will start dying on purpose or put even less effort saving others. I know being a ghost isn't funny but you should be punished for dying, not rewarded or still be capable of helping others. One of the only good use of ghosts i found was to haunt pig/merm heads which makes them crazy and gives nightmare fuel. Very useful but not game breaking.

[SuperPsiPower]

 

7 hours ago, Zeklo said:

It doesn't entice me to try Webber whatsoever.

Plus the so called incentive seems to have backfired from what I have seen. People just get annoyed and yell at you to leave. 

 A way to revive yourself would be a lot more beneficial, no one will revive you unless you're friends with the person reviving you. All the Noobs will just yell at you to leave and discourages gameplay.

Oh and speaking of ghosts, if a ghost haunts a crockpot with food cooking inside or food on top of it, it'll instantly become wet goop, and this is a 100% chance of happening. 

[GiddyGuy]

47 minutes ago, The Letter W said:

all i can think of is the unknown from over the garden wall. a lot like the real world except some things are just a little... off? maybe like the nightmare season people have suggested time and time again.

then i guess it's a matter of how you would 'escape', do you find your spot of death? do you have to defeat a certain creature? either or? to be quite honest, i think this idea could be expanded on! 

You sir are a genius it could act like you die get a option to get teleported somewhere on the map and have all your map discovery deleted and have to find your body in a certain amount of time if you don't your ghost will get teleported to your body and be inside your body and your ghost form will be oozing out and will be stuck there until someone revives you if you how ever find your body you will have to fight like say a spectral giant (you get unlimited time to fight it but have stay in certain area) and you only can get hit once and if you die the same result that happens when you don't find your body in time happens also maybe depending on the season it will be either the Bearger, Deerclops, or Moose and or Goose (pls no dragonfly pls) and if you're in the caves it's kind of hard to fight the guardian without getting hit but what ever and people can see you from the real world while you are in the spectral world but they can't revive you unless they find your body,

TL:DR Fight spectral giants, time limit, 1 hp, failure stuck where you died.

Anyway that was my suggestion, probably will never be implemented.

[Asparagus]

4 hours ago, BeastNips said:

I think it's probably worth better sign posting Endless servers for inexperienced players. Survival servers should be clearly labeled as a place for intermediate players. After this Survival servers should be tweaked to include a perma-death for players that have been on the server for less than X number of days. For example: MrWinterWarrior joins the server on day 28 in the height of Winter, dies to the cold in the first night; instead of becoming a ghost he is ejected from the server. He has the option to rejoin, but he'll be sent back to the character screen. Obviously this would discourage new players, which is why Endless and Survival servers need to be clearly labeled as Beginner and Intermediate. 

3 hours ago, Serph said:

I don't agree with these. Survival is the default choice, the one you should learn to play. Automatically ejecting the player from the server for dying would make this community even more elitist and completely goes again what cooperation is supposed to mean. What if i wanted to res that player? I can't because he "deserved to be kicked"?

3 hours ago, GiddyGuy said:

You sir are a genius it could act like you die get a option to get teleported somewhere on the map and have all your map discovery deleted and have to find your body

...

Is everyone forgetting the "Wilderness" game mode or something? IDK, hard to find Wilderness Servers anyway... but basically, all these things are somewhat solved by the Wilderness game mode... sure, if YOU die, you also get teleported, memory wiped (prototypes and maps) and have to start from scratch... but I guess Life Giving Amulets are hard to come by... but hey, no sanity drain... no ghost...

...

I kinda want to play in one now...

EDIT: And by "teleported" I mean getting back to Character selection and spawning at a random spot... again...

[GiddyGuy]

21 minutes ago, Asparagus said:

...

Is everyone forgetting the "Wilderness" game mode or something? IDK, hard to find Wilderness Servers anyway... but basically, all these things are somewhat solved by the Wilderness game mode... sure, if YOU die, you also get teleported, memory wiped (prototypes and maps) and have to start from scratch... but I guess Life Giving Amulets are hard to come by... but hey, no sanity drain... no ghost...

...

I kinda want to play in one now...

EDIT: And by "teleported" I mean getting back to Character selection and spawning at a random spot... again...

My idea was that if you defeated the giant, you revived, and got your map discovery back, and everything else, and such, sorry my bad for not including that. :c 

[Asparagus]

2 minutes ago, GiddyGuy said:

My idea was that if you defeated the giant, you revived, and got your map discovery back, and everything else, and such, sorry my bad for not including that. :c 

That actually really sounds exciting  

How would you propose the mechanics for that would go?

[GiddyGuy]

9 minutes ago, Asparagus said:

That actually really sounds exciting  

How would you propose the mechanics for that would go?

Well I guess I didn't really explain it but I trying to suggest it was a spectral plane that your character would have a normal body and not a ghostly apparition when you're wondering around dead, anyway getting to the point you would have to find the resting place of your corpse and touch it and upon activating it you could either fight a giant or yourself(just now thought about fighting a shadow of yourself but slower attacks like the Maxwell fight) but you would still have the one hit mechanic since being able to revive yourself scottfree without help seems a bit un don't starve D.R.  styled.

Edit: last post I don't wanna spam up the place

[Serph]

6 hours ago, SuperPsiPower said:

 A way to revive yourself would be a lot more beneficial, no one will revive you unless you're friends with the person reviving you. All the Noobs will just yell at you to leave and discourages gameplay.

We already have 3 ways to revive without external help. Touchstones, meat effigies and life amulets. Touchs are limited and effigies are hard to make for non Wilsons but Life Amulets are fine if you kill 2 shadows and get red gems from graves/earthquakes. As long as you carry one with you all the time, you can die anywhere and go back without relying on anyone. (I always make 1 when i can). If they add an easy way to revive yourself then it would turn survival into endless, where nobody even tries to resurrect each other, which obviously discourages teamwork.

There needs to be some kind of balance. It can't be so easy nobody cares or so punishing and unrewarding everybody hates it. We need a real incentive to help other players, like maybe getting your max life back (like booster shot) after resurrecting someone or a reward after resurrecting X amount of players. Even if players don't help out of kindness, they're still helping. 

[K5dV]

10 hours ago, Serph said:

There needs to be some kind of balance. It can't be so easy nobody cares or so punishing and unrewarding everybody hates it. We need a real incentive to help other players, like maybe getting your max life back (like booster shot) after resurrecting someone or a reward after resurrecting X amount of players. Even if players don't help out of kindness, they're still helping. 

If I could get 5% of my max health back whenever I revived a ghost, I would actually travel the server to revive people. I hope this gets added. 

[Snowhusky5]

Maybe someone should make a mod to give more benefits to reviving someone with a telltale heart. Hell, maybe I'll make it! Don't know what the benefits could be; any suggestions, besides restoring lost max hp?

[Asparagus]

How about getting a certain amount of something like nightmare fuel out of it?

[werlpolf]

9 hours ago, Snowhusky5 said:

Maybe someone should make a mod to give more benefits to reviving someone with a telltale heart.

The revived character gets a lower health limit. The reviving guy gets a higher health limit, until he dies and he gets a constantly bonus sanity increase for the same time, how long the revived character has been a ghost.

That would counter the said argument:

On 2/23/2016 at 3:49 AM, Serph said:

80 sanity! Wow what a great reward! (If only i hadn't lost 300 sanity in my way to ressurrect this guy it would be useful)

 

On 2/23/2016 at 10:07 AM, SuperPsiPower said:

 A way to revive yourself would be a lot more beneficial, no one will revive you unless you're friends with the person reviving you.

Especially in PvP it would be nice. I thought about some events happening regurlarly in the world

- haunting objects can make you revive or help you to revive

EDIT

           - hunting as a ghost (uncover tracks) can spawn living amulet

- a necromancer is running around the world, if you met him he ressurect you, but you would need to give him the half of you health bonus you receive for a period of time or until a limit is reached. So a healing salves, which gives normally 20 hp, the ressurected player would get just 10 hp from it, until the 'pact' is over

- on every fullmoon you can ressurect yourself in a grave

- If you touch holy water or other living player do a ceremony on you, you will be redeemed and despawned from the world - makes you starting again on the character selection menu

....

[NoQuitting]

Don't Starve is designed from the ground up that you die and lose everything and have to start all over. It actually feels liberating to have to start a new game over and over. Obviously ghosts draining sanity is their compromise between permanent death and making the game still playable with friends. Survival mode is exclusively designed for coop game play so if you find yourself "not wanting to" resurrect your teammate you are playing the wrong game mode. Maybe before you start the game there should be an option to create teams and you only lose sanity when your teammate dies. To prevent cooperation between non-team members there should be a permanent negative sanity aura when near non-teammates. Of course you can kill the ghost of your enemies resulting in a permanent ban until the game world resets. To kill the enemy ghost you need a special weapon, you need to build a special vacuum cleaner of course to do this task. To top it all off if anyone quits you still stay in the game this is all or nothing.

 

[Monkeygh10]

I feel like the sanity drain is pretty bad but any other way of fixing it just seems to make the game to easy or there is no need to revive somebody you don't know. I feel like this is the best compromise as it punishes death plus sanity isn't terrible to lose I feel like the penalty shouldn't stack however that's kind of annoying

 

[VexTheHex]

 There really is no reason to make revival easier. The game already offers many ways of revival that make dying after you can produce Life Giving Amulets or Meat Effigys as simple as cooking meatballs. 

 

 The Sanity drain makes sense, someone dies and our character goes through grief and fear. And it makes sense for gameplay in Co-Op so you don't just leave your friend dead just cause you'd rather go fight McTusk or spam dance cause it doesn't matter to you. Even worse for randoms as there is no reason for them to help you. Yes, I have seen and told people to leave cause they are dead 24/7. I have also revived people I didn't trust. I simply told them to meet me at spawn. I set up a campfire, left some basic supplies on the ground, revived them, and then I ran off into the darkness with my lantern. 

 

 People seem to want to wage war against trolling. I have seen people gripe about the ghost sanity, Wickerbottom's tentacle spellbook, and Webber's eggs. But let's be real, someone can ruin all your hard work with a hammer and/or torch. Or simply eat all of the food. You remove something in the game, and trolls or new players will simply move onto something else that grinds your gears. 

[NoQuitting]

1 hour ago, VexTheHex said:

 [...] move onto something else that grinds your gears. 

You mean like when WX-78 eats them all?