How Skins Could've Been "Innocent" and Trade Inn Discussion

[leonseye]

Just now, Mikeadatrix said:

Heres the entire issue with this. People will have Good Ol Samurai Wigfrid be worth maybe (if I know greed) $300 American. That's how greed works. Like Joe put it, It'll take time to stable down. But how long? Months? That's how long TF2 took.

As somebody who wasn't going to pay any money for free skins in a game that I enjoy playing in the first place, this does not effect me in the slightest.

If people feel that it's worth that much and are willing to pay that much for it, then let them go ahead and do exactly that, I say.  That's how a free market system works.

I don't see an issue.  The skins are still free for everyone who doesn't want to pay.

[Mikeadatrix]

2 hours ago, leonseye said:

As somebody who wasn't going to pay any money for free skins in a game that I enjoy playing in the first place, this does not effect me in the slightest.

If people feel that it's worth that much and are willing to pay that much for it, then let them go ahead and do exactly that, I say.  That's how a free market system works.

I don't see an issue.  The skins are still free for everyone who doesn't want to pay.

Have fun playing the game for hours without fruit my friend. It's gonna be a long cold winter,spring,summer,autumn.

2 hours ago, Mikeadatrix said:

Have fun playing the game for hours without fruit my friend. It's gonna be a long cold winter,spring,summer,autumn.

4 items a week with common the highest? No one to trade a good deal. You're more screwed than all of us.

[leonseye]

3 minutes ago, Mikeadatrix said:

Have fun playing the game for hours without fruit my friend. It's gonna be a long cold winter,spring,summer,autumn.

You mean exactly the same way that I and others have done for YEARS?

You may be playing this game solely for skin drops, but before those existed, there was this game called Don't Starve that eventually became Don't Starve Together, and it was and is a ton of fun.

So yeah, I will have fun playing the game for hours.  Others will too.

The introduction of skins is a bonus to me and it absolutely does not make my time in game any worse for its existence.  To hear you tell it, now that skins exist, the game sucks and the only reason to play it at all is to get valuable skins to trade or something.

I don't feel that way.

[leonseye]

5 minutes ago, Mikeadatrix said:

4 items a week with common the highest? No one to trade a good deal. You're more screwed than all of us.

Are you.. talking to me or yourself here?  <.<

Either way, I don't feel "screwed" whatsoever.  You said it yourself, all I have are commons pretty much.

I already can't trade for a good deal, lol.  So how does this effect me at all?

[Mikeadatrix]

11 hours ago, JoeW said:

Couldn't agree more! I just want to drop in and let you all know that this thread has been an amazing amount of constructive and real feedback and we all really appreciate it. Rest assured that this is not something we take lightly and we are and will continue to watch everything very very closely.

We Did it! Congrats guys! For and Against we will all get what we want! WE ALL WON!!!!

2 hours ago, leonseye said:

Are you.. talking to me or yourself here?  <.<

Either way, I don't feel "screwed" whatsoever.  You said it yourself, all I have are commons pretty much.

I already can't trade for a good deal, lol.  So how does this effect me at all?

More Skins means less likely to get the drop you want. I don't mean in negative way, instead, concerned for your items sakes.

2 hours ago, leonseye said:

You mean exactly the same way that I and others have done for YEARS?

You may be playing this game solely for skin drops, but before those existed, there was this game called Don't Starve that eventually became Don't Starve Together, and it was and is a ton of fun.

So yeah, I will have fun playing the game for hours.  Others will too.

The introduction of skins is a bonus to me and it absolutely does not make my time in game any worse for its existence.  To hear you tell it, now that skins exist, the game sucks and the only reason to play it at all is to get valuable skins to trade or something.

I don't feel that way.

Friend... I mean no anger or fighting but, I despise having people talk to me like I'm 7. I've been with Klei since 2008. This is the first time I have felt a discussion was needed. Ever. I played 2000 hours of DS, Skins are filler content. I'm worried about how trading will come out. If you really don't care about trading or marketplace, please leave. Just politely saying that there is a real worry and fear happening here.

[leonseye]

1 minute ago, Mikeadatrix said:

More Skins means less likely to get the drop you want. I don't mean in negative way, instead, concerned for your items sakes.

I'm fine w/ that, you don't need to be concerned, my friend.  : )

Like I said, I would have played even w/out skins at all.  Now there's a chance to look spiffy by piece-mealing together an ensemble from the drops that I do get.  I find that to be fun.

My friends and fiance all play on my dedicated server; if we get things that others want, we give them away.  For free.

I don't think my fiance will be charging me $300 for a Samurai Wigfrid costume if it drops for her, and neither will the others.

I imagine that for many of us who play this game w/ friends that we know and trust, this is probably the case.

 

[leonseye]

Just now, Mikeadatrix said:

Friend... I mean no anger or fighting but, I despise having people talk to me like I'm 7. I've been with Klei since 2008. This is the first time I have felt a discussion was needed. Ever. I played 2000 hours of DS, Skins are filler content. I'm worried about how trading will come out. If you really don't care about trading or marketplace, please leave. Just politely saying that there is a real worry and fear happening here.

I disagree w/ your sentiment, so now I no longer care about trading or the marketplace or even the game itself..?

You're asking me to leave the thread because I disagree w/ you?

That's... very classy.

[Mikeadatrix]

1 hour ago, leonseye said:

I'm fine w/ that, you don't need to be concerned, my friend.  : )

Like I said, I would have played even w/out skins at all.  Now there's a chance to look spiffy by piece-mealing together an ensemble from the drops that I do get.  I find that to be fun.

My friends and fiance all play on my dedicated server; if we get things that others want, we give them away.  For free.

I don't think my fiance will be charging me $300 for a Samurai Wigfrid costume if it drops for her, and neither will the others.

I imagine that for many of us who play this game w/ friends that we know and trust, this is probably the case.

 

Yep! I agree with you. Now that JoeW has seen what weve said. Changes hopefully come soon.

1 hour ago, leonseye said:

I disagree w/ your sentiment, so now I no longer care about trading or the marketplace or even the game itself..?

You're asking me to leave the thread because I disagree w/ you?

That's... very classy.

Asparagus is disagreeing you just really don't.... care.

1 hour ago, Mikeadatrix said:

Asparagus is disagreeing you just really don't.... care.

No offense. I don't want any fighting.

[leonseye]

15 minutes ago, Mikeadatrix said:

Asparagus is disagreeing you just really don't.... care.

Asparagus can speak for himself, just as I will speak for myself.  Believe me, he will chime in when and if he feels the need to, lol.

I'm not sure where you are getting that I "don't care" because I don't feel that Klei's proposals are terrible ideas.  I obviously do care, or I wouldn't have come out of my long hiatus to discuss this matter.

I see that there is already a trade market where certain items are being valued much higher than others, creating a barrier between those who have rare items and those who want them.  This is already the case.  Opening the system up to the Steam marketplace does not change this interaction; in fact, it opens it up to more players who may not have TF2 currency or rare DST skins, which are extremely niche currencies compared to, say, cash.

I also see that there are many who DO get tons of commons while playing, and the Trade Inn is a way to recycle those into a random slightly higher tiered item, but is limited in such a way that the truly rare quality items remain so.  I don't see this as a bad compromise, as those truly rare items will still be traded for, or bought outright through the Steam marketplace for prices determined by the buyers AND sellers.

If items are priced too high, nobody will buy them and they lose said value.  I can easily go to the local flea market and sell pencils for $200 each; nobody is stopping me from doing this.  But it would be very hard to liquidate my stock of pencils at that price.  If I actually want to sell those pencils, I will have to lower my prices to match what others are willing to pay for pencils.

Likewise, some may overprice their rare skins at first, but if others are unwilling to pay those prices, then the value will drop accordingly.  It sounds like you are afraid that others DO feel that those items are worth that much and it will make it harder to get them.  If people feel that's what the items are worth, though, that's what they ARE worth - nobody is forcing them to fork over their hard-earned cash on cosmetic items.  They clearly WANT to do this and feel that their purchase is worth what they're paying.

And of course, there is still the fact that the skins will continue to drop for all of us who play the game, for free, so there is literally never a real need to open up your Steam wallet for them (unless you feel you just HAVE to look super fabulous!).  That's everyone's personal decision.

Nobody has played DST for 40 years, period.  And yet, I see Wigfrid GoHs on offer all over the trading forum.  How on earth did that happen if it's impossible to get these valuable drops?

 

 

[Mikeadatrix]

11 minutes ago, leonseye said:

Asparagus can speak for himself, just as I will speak for myself.  Believe me, he will chime in when and if he feels the need to, lol.

I'm not sure where you are getting that I "don't care" because I don't feel that Klei's proposals are terrible ideas.  I obviously do care, or I wouldn't have come out of my long hiatus to discuss this matter.

I see that there is already a trade market where certain items are being valued much higher than others, creating a barrier between those who have rare items and those who want them.  This is already the case.  Opening the system up to the Steam marketplace does not change this interaction; in fact, it opens it up to more players who may not have TF2 currency or rare DST skins, which are extremely niche currencies compared to, say, cash.

I also see that there are many who DO get tons of commons while playing, and the Trade Inn is a way to recycle those into a random slightly higher tiered item, but is limited in such a way that the truly rare quality items remain so.  I don't see this as a bad compromise, as those truly rare items will still be traded for, or bought outright through the Steam marketplace for prices determined by the buyers AND sellers.

If items are priced too high, nobody will buy them and they lose said value.  I can easily go to the local flea market and sell pencils for $200 each; nobody is stopping me from doing this.  But it would be very hard to liquidate my stock of pencils at that price.  If I actually want to sell those pencils, I will have to lower my prices to match what others are willing to pay for pencils.

Likewise, some may overprice their rare skins at first, but if others are unwilling to pay those prices, then the value will drop accordingly.  It sounds like you are afraid that others DO feel that those items are worth that much and it will make it harder to get them.  If people feel that's what the items are worth, though, that's what they ARE worth - nobody is forcing them to fork over their hard-earned cash on cosmetic items.  They clearly WANT to do this and feel that their purchase is worth what they're paying.

And of course, there is still the fact that the skins will continue to drop for all of us who play the game, for free, so there is literally never a real need to open up your Steam wallet for them (unless you feel you just HAVE to look super fabulous!).  That's everyone's personal decision.

Nobody has played DST for 40 years, period.  And yet, I see Wigfrid GoHs on offer all over the trading forum.  How on earth did that happen if it's impossible to get these valuable drops?

 

 

As I see anger and disagreement and I need to rest. I throw in the towel. I will wait this out now knowing that JoeW has read our responses. I don't need this amount of stress. I moved my Knight. Now its your turn Klei. Hopefully it's not a Checkmate.

-Michael

[Ecu]

2 hours ago, Mudley said:

Okay, here goes nothing:

My interest about skins is minimal, and that's why I kept myself from posting in this topic, because I believe if you don't have anything useful to add, it's better to just stay quiet.

But if my crappy english is not fooling me, I've read that depending on how the whole skin situation turns out, some people might leave the game entirely.

I am gonna brace myself from the rocks that will be thrown at me, but leaving a game because of a pure cosmetic mechanic, is a very dumb reason to do so. It might be different for some, but the main reason I play DST is so I can have the same fun I had with the original DS, but with friends.

And yeah, coming from the guy that does not care that much for skins doesn't mean that much, and don't get me wrong, I too want the skin economy to not be a joke, like TF2's. But, leaving everything behind just because of it?

I don't think people are leaving because of the skin changes, but more because of other reasons that are reflected by it.  One of which seems to be, supposedly Klei specifically stated they would not monetize skins.

In my case (and I'm sure some mod authors feel similar), its because they are wasting development resources on a system that is purely cosmetic when the core game is still in beta and has many flaws.  I see it as a repeat of what I saw in Furcadia, and it ruined the game for me there...so I'm worried it will here as well.

[leonseye]

5 minutes ago, Mikeadatrix said:

As I see anger and disagreement and I need to rest. I throw in the towel. I will wait this out now knowing that JoeW has read our responses. I don't need this amount of stress. I moved my Knight. Now its your turn Klei. Hopefully it's not a Checkmate.

-Michael

I think you may need to rest if you are seeing anger anywhere.  I'm certainly not angry, and it doesn't seem like anyone else is.  <.<

I understand that the topic is one of interest and that many are passionate about it.  Your voice is every bit as important as mine and others when it comes to showing your opinion about it, whether we agree or not.

But I won't be browbeaten out of the discussion simply because mine is an unpopular opinion, and I hope that you won't let yourself be either (although that is absolutely not my intention).

[Mikeadatrix]

3 minutes ago, leonseye said:

I think you may need to rest if you are seeing anger anywhere.  I'm certainly not angry, and it doesn't seem like anyone else is.  <.<

I understand that the topic is one of interest and that many are passionate about it.  Your voice is every bit as important as mine and others when it comes to showing your opinion about it, whether we agree or not.

But I won't be browbeaten out of the discussion simply because mine is an unpopular opinion, and I hope that you won't let yourself be either (although that is absolutely not my intention).

By anger I mean bickering back and forth. Not like full on rage but still lots of Passion as you put it. I need to rest. Keep me posted Leon.

[Arcita]

24 minutes ago, leonseye said:

Nobody has played DST for 40 years, period.  And yet, I see Wigfrid GoHs on offer all over the trading forum.  How on earth did that happen if it's impossible to get these valuable drops?

Yes... but there are thousands of players, so the total playtime and number of skin drops to pull from is vast. I think the point is that for any one player, it's entirely possible to never receive an elegant drop. It isn't a certainty. And in fact there are lots of people who still haven't received a single elegant drop. Of course if you examine an entire population then the likelihood for even unlikely scenarios skyrockets. 

I don't know if this particular problem has or even should have a solution. I like @ItsPizzaTime's idea about there being a small chance to get high-tier loot when you do a trade in the trade inn. Maybe there can be a gambling option you can tick in which you fork over more clothes, like 1 or 2 extra, for a small possibility to 'jump' a level in tier. So if you're trading classies for a spiffy, there's a small possibility you can get a distinguished if you gamble.

[leonseye]

2 minutes ago, Arcita said:

Yes... but there are thousands of players, so the total playtime and number of skin drops to pull from is vast. I think the point is that for any one player, it's entirely possible to never receive an elegant drop. It isn't a certainty. And in fact there are lots of people who still haven't received a single elegant drop. Of course if you examine an entire population then the likelihood for even unlikely scenarios skyrockets. 

I don't know if this particular problem has or even should have a solution. I like @ItsPizzaTime's idea about there being a small chance to get high-tier loot when you do a trade in the trade inn. Maybe there can be a gambling option you can tick in which you fork over more clothes, like 1 or 2 extra, for a small possibility to 'jump' a level in tier. So if you're trading classies for a spiffy, there's a small possibility you can get a distinguished if you gamble.

I think that's also a rather elegant solution.

Also, once more skins are actually added, it would be a rather "simple" (completely subjective, I know) thing on Klei's part to adjust drop rates accordingly, based on whatever metrics they may have regarding them.

On top of that, the way in which skins are actually awarded (currently based solely on time logged in w/ a weekly limit) could very well be tweaked to require a more active approach to combat those AFKing in godmode for skin drops, which iirc is why the limit was ever introduced at all.

Ultimately, it's in Klei's hands, and just like when people were selling DST beta keys in shady back-internet deals, I highly doubt that they would ever let detrimental behavior continue if it infringes upon their philosophies of integrity.  I have always admired Klei's tact when it comes to the well-being of their player base, and I have faith that they are monitoring the situation closely.

But I will say that currently, I have next to no chance of ever obtaining some of these rare items outside of getting them to drop for myself (or my small group of friends) due to time constraints.  In a monetized system, players like me who don't have a ton of time to play but love playing when we can, may eventually be able to get a good deal on a lesser rare item through the marketplace.

I really like @ItsPizzaTime's idea for a small chance at a higher tier skin when trading, though.  It's very simple and still fair for all, as well as giving those who may not have cared about the Trade Inn due to already having cool things a reason to use it.  : )

[t0panka]

8 hours ago, Exhu said:

 

"people should cool off and think about it with calm head" - You are assuming that people aren't thinking this out calmly. Trust me I've thought about it plenty, along with the other people who have made very long, thorough posts lining out their stance on things.

"to all people that doesnt like items being marketable: WHAT? Items already are marketable. This way at least everyone will have same chance to sell/buy them and we wont see people paying ridiculous amounts for skins with keys because they are not aware of values" - Actually they aren't marketable, people just happen to be able to trade items for other games for them. They can't straight up give money to people for them without using means outside of Steam to pay for them. People will post them for ridiculous prices, it happens every time in game items become purchasable with real life money in games.

I'm not even going to bother quoting all of your other stuff, it's just you making assumptions about people, their items, and their trading methods. Great, you gave stuff to people, that has absolutely nothing to do with the Trade Inn and items becoming marketable.

If you think about this calmly you will see that what OP wants is ridiculous because everyone would have all elegant items and there will be no "rarity" and "excitement" to get/see some high tier items and this would destroy all purpose of skins. Also as you said "i will have just tons of useless spiffies" then after what OP wants you will have just "tons of useless elegants" and after that you will want only Timeless and Loyal items because they will be "rare" and not available in Trading Inn. It seems like you are not satisfied until you have best items in game and now. You wont be satisfied with Wigfrid GOH because everyone will have one and it wont be rare. I already offered you Wigi head and you didn't say anything so it seems you do care about your commons and other items anyway and it is not the only thing you want.

Items are marketable now. That is fact. Look at trading forums. People are trading these skins for ridiculous amount of keys and keys = $$ on Steam. I see you don't have much experience with other games and drops but TF2/CSGO keys are $$ on steam. They have basically set value so people are using them as currency on Steam since forever.

I am not making assumptions. I made on steam around 1000 trades in and out (around 1000 more with other games) and give away around 200 skins of every quality to friends, strangers, anyone. I also saw tons of inventories, how people trade, how people trade high tier items for, what are people doing with my gifts, etc. This is all based on my long experience with steam and trading.

10 hours ago, JoeW said:

Couldn't agree more! I just want to drop in and let you all know that this thread has been an amazing amount of constructive and real feedback and we all really appreciate it. Rest assured that this is not something we take lightly and we are and will continue to watch everything very very closely.

 

10 hours ago, Bigfoot said:

I just want to echo @JoeW: lots of great feedback. Thank you!

As i said above items are already marketable. Changing DST items to be marketable on market will change the way people are trading now for $$. After that everyone will be properly informed about prices and have same chance to sell/buy items if they wish to. This will deal with people wanting too much or sell too little because lot of people are not aware of "value" of items.

Also if you add higher tier items to Trading Inn with no limitations everyone will have most of them on day 1 because they all have tons of other items. As you can see some of users here thinks that commons (and now spiffies) are "trash" just because there are higher tier items. Giving them easier way to get best items in game will change those items again to "trash" and they will stop caring about those since everyone will have them and they will want those higher items only - timeless and loyal (if they are still part of the plan) because they are not part of trading inn and are "rare" = thats why that desire. Also that excitement and joy of getting higher tier drop or seeing someone with cool skin will just disappear and will change to "meh everyone has wigi head anyway"

About people iddling or godmoding or how it is called because items are marketable. They are doing it now. Some of here posting are doing it. They will do it one way or another. But this means 2 things: More $ for Klei from selling DST (this means more content for us guys!) and more items in "market" so more people can get what they want or buy it for less and also few more $ for Klei (this means more content for us guys!)

 

1 hour ago, Mikeadatrix said:

Exactly.

I have been telling my entire Steam Friends list about this. They tell theirs. I say about maybe 500 now know.

Dude how about put your text in one post and stop spamming this thread? You posting thousand times wont change Kleis mind about this. You forcing you opinion to 500 people wont change Kleis mind about this. And you + few people here that doesn't like idea that items will be marketable (FYI they are already marketable) doesn't mean it is bad idea either.

 

5 minutes ago, Arcita said:

Yes... but there are thousands of players, so the total playtime and number of skin drops to pull from is vast. I think the point is that for any one player, it's entirely possible to never receive an elegant drop. It isn't a certainty. And in fact there are lots of people who still haven't received a single elegant drop. Of course if you examine an entire population then the likelihood for even unlikely scenarios skyrockets. 

I don't know if this particular problem has or even should have a solution. I like @ItsPizzaTime's idea about there being a small chance to get high-tier loot when you do a trade in the trade inn. Maybe there can be a gambling option you can tick in which you fork over more clothes, like 1 or 2 extra, for a small possibility to 'jump' a level in tier. So if you're trading classies for a spiffy, there's a small possibility you can get a distinguished if you gamble.

You are right about that few people didn't get elegant drop yet. And yet lot of them have those elegant items either from friends or trading  Also lot of you here posting have more elegants that dropped for you. I have lot more elegants that dropped for me. I gave lot of people elegants for free that didn't drop for them.

Some people are trading sharks, some people are good and can share free items. Some people care about only high tier items and $$ and some people care about friendship and fun.

I like that gambling idea too! That sounds fun and awesome. There should be limitations on how often you can gamble tho so people wont gamble all their stuff or get frustrated.

[Mikeadatrix]

14 minutes ago, t0panka said:

If you think about this calmly you will see that what OP wants is ridiculous because everyone would have all elegant items and there will be no "rarity" and "excitement" to get/see some high tier items and this would destroy all purpose of skins. Also as you said "i will have just tons of useless spiffies" then after what OP wants you will have just "tons of useless elegants" and after that you will want only Timeless and Loyal items because they will be "rare" and not available in Trading Inn. It seems like you are not satisfied until you have best items in game and now. You wont be satisfied with Wigfrid GOH because everyone will have one and it wont be rare. I already offered you Wigi head and you didn't say anything so it seems you do care about your commons and other items anyway and it is not the only thing you want.

Items are marketable now. That is fact. Look at trading forums. People are trading these skins for ridiculous amount of keys and keys = $$ on Steam. I see you don't have much experience with other games and drops but TF2/CSGO keys are $$ on steam. They have basically set value so people are using them as currency on Steam since forever.

I am not making assumptions. I made on steam around 1000 trades in and out (around 1000 more with other games) and give away around 200 skins of every quality to friends, strangers, anyone. I also saw tons of inventories, how people trade, how people trade high tier items for, what are people doing with my gifts, etc. This is all based on my long experience with steam and trading.

 

As i said above items are already marketable. Changing DST items to be marketable on market will change the way people are trading now for $$. After that everyone will be properly informed about prices and have same chance to sell/buy items if they wish to. This will deal with people wanting too much or sell too little because lot of people are not aware of "value" of items.

Also if you add higher tier items to Trading Inn with no limitations everyone will have most of them on day 1 because they all have tons of other items. As you can see some of users here thinks that commons (and now spiffies) are "trash" just because there are higher tier items. Giving them easier way to get best items in game will change those items again to "trash" and they will stop caring about those since everyone will have them and they will want those higher items only - timeless and loyal (if they are still part of the plan) because they are not part of trading inn and are "rare" = thats why that desire. Also that excitement and joy of getting higher tier drop or seeing someone with cool skin will just disappear and will change to "meh everyone has wigi head anyway"

About people iddling or godmoding or how it is called because items are marketable. They are doing it now. Some of here posting are doing it. They will do it one way or another. But this means 2 things: More $ for Klei from selling DST (this means more content for us guys!) and more items in "market" so more people can get what they want or buy it for less and also few more $ for Klei (this means more content for us guys!)

 

Dude how about put your text in one post and stop spamming this thread? You posting thousand times wont change Kleis mind about this. You forcing you opinion to 500 people wont change Kleis mind about this. And you + few people here that doesn't like idea that items will be marketable (FYI they are already marketable) doesn't mean it is bad idea either.

 

You are right about that few people didn't get elegant drop yet. And yet lot of them have those elegant items either from friends or trading  Also lot of you here posting have more elegants that dropped for you. I have lot more elegants that dropped for me. I gave lot of people elegants for free that didn't drop for them.

Some people are trading sharks, some people are good and can share free items. Some people care about only high tier items and $$ and some people care about friendship and fun.

I like that gambling idea too! That sounds fun and awesome. There should be limitations on how often you can gamble tho so people wont gamble all their stuff or get frustrated.

Dude. I said I want a chill thread. That was very insulting to me. I quote as I read. And theres alot of great points so I comment. Than go back. Comment. Then go back. Care about the important things shall we? Also I don't force my opinion on people. You being ignorant assumed that. I told them, "Klei is making skins marketable and the trade Inn is gonna suck." THATS ALL I SAID. So stop saying I'm forcing people. 200 said "Wow thats horrible" 100 was happy. 100 didn't care about money. Ugh. I was taking a rest from this anger.

[t0panka]

5 minutes ago, Mikeadatrix said:

Dude. I said I want a chill thread. That was very insulting to me. I quote as I read. And theres alot of great points so I comment. Than go back. Comment. Then go back. Care about the important things shall we? Also I don't force my opinion on people. You being ignorant assumed that. I told them, "Klei is making skins marketable and the trade Inn is gonna suck." THATS ALL I SAID. So stop saying I'm forcing people. 200 said "Wow thats horrible" 100 was happy. 100 didn't care about money. Ugh. I was taking a rest from this anger.

Skins are already marketable in some way and trading inn is not yet out. Seems to me like forcing your opinion to them. Rather link them this discussion and maybe they can express their "wow thats horrible" or "happy" after they read about what is going on, about your ideas and about other things here. Just because you don't like this Trading Inn mechanics doesn't mean you call 500 people to your cause just to change it for everyone else. If there is 200 people disagreeing with Trading Inn idea here and Klei will change it and give all of them elegants for free i have no problem with that .)

[Mikeadatrix]

Just now, t0panka said:

Skins are already marketable in some way and trading inn is not yet out. Seems to me like forcing your opinion to them. Rather link them this discussion and maybe they can express their "wow thats horrible" or "happy" after they read about what is going on, about your ideas and about other things here. Just because you don't like this Trading Inn mechanics doesn't mean you call 500 people to your cause just to change it for everyone else. If there is 200 people disagreeing with Trading Inn idea here and Klei will change it and give all of them elegants for free i have no problem with that .)

Ugh. There's no talking to you. Like arguing with a wall.

[Fidooop]

I didn't read absolutely everything in this thread but I did read quite a lot of it! So I'm sorry if I repeat something somebody else said...

The way I see it, if the Trade Inn can't allow you access to every single item then there shouldn't be a Trade Inn at all period. Because whether or not items get marketable non-TradeInn items' prices will STILL skyrocket to the point where nobody can get them unless they find a lucky drop. This is going to make it terrible for anyone who wants to get these better items!

If not marketable people will just skyrocket the prices to above a CS:GO knife or even a high tier TF2 unusual and they'll want keys... A lot of keys... Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a TF2 key by trading now adays? That economy is broken all to heck and it all started the day the F2P update was released... It used to be simple: Play the game some, get your items, trade up a little here and there, OH LOOK! I've got 2 refined metal now! I can buy one of those key thingies... NOW it's like what? 20 refined for a key? I haven't checked lately because I completely gave up on TF2...

Speaking of keys... Do you know why they are 20 refined? Because of idlers... Dirty filthy idlers! I'm not talking about the common DSTer that goes and idles their 4 skins for the week... I'm talking about the horrid people that go out and get about 10 accounts to idle out their items so they can get the good stuff... and once they get the good stuff they straight up sell it for money as fast as possible... They abuse the system as well as peoples' wants and desires! As soon as you give any sort of monetary value to your items then all you'll get are idlers and that will wreck the economy faster than you can say some word that'll take you 2 weeks to say....

Ontop of that, the fact that you are trading 9 whole commons for a classy is insanity! o_o
With the current droprates of the items you'd be better off getting the classy you're wanting by waiting for it to drop or just buying it dirt cheap off of somebody who's wanting to trade it... They sure as heck aren't getting 9 commons for their single classy! and they won't want to throw it along with 8 other classies away into a single spiffy... Again... droprates are so common with even spiffies that they aren't worth 9 classies and especially not 81 commons... See how fast that added up on itself?

 

In conclusion... (ok, maybe not... just realized this is at half rant...) Items are going to need to be ALL worthless (even if they are hyper rare) or you're going to run into a lot of problems... The way it is now... All items have no monetary value and are technically worthless. Sure some people think "Oh, I can go sell this for a key or 2!" and they get away with it... but they don't have reason to go much higher and they won't even find that many buyers... If every single item gets put into the Trade Inn in a way that is fair matching it against drop rates then all items become completely deprived of value and you will never run into any problems with idlers or people running the prices way up.

So we've got a few choices:
1: Keep everything the way it is now and never change it at all.
2: Never put anything on the steam market and put everything into the Trade Inn.
Why no Steam market? As said before, the idlers will take the cake as soon as you flaunt it! And they won't even stop to think it's a lie.
Unless... (I'm not sure how this would work out but) if the Trade Inn became an ingame store just like TF2's Mann Co. and Klei was able to set prices for each and every one of their items (Klei being a nice company that doesn't money hoard would lead to a very cheap store.) They'd then be able to put items out on the Steam Market and people would be restricted to selling their items for LESS than the Trade Inn's prices... Leading to a fair market! Also leading to far less idlers... Sure some idlers will arise but not as many!

Now, I'm not saying the above HAS to be done... These are only recommendations ^

I do appreciate the work that the devs have put into the skins and drop rates thus far... but I'm really worried something horrible will happen making it so hard to get items that I'll just give up on my goal to get every single one... I'm a completionist, dangit! I really don't care about making a profit or nabbing a few quick bucks off of items, I just want the items! And if they all end up costing insane amounts of cash then I won't really enjoy the trading system anymore and then when you find people on a server wearing these $300 items... Flaunting them about... Well it just adds insult to injury!

I know I've talked about things @JoeW has stated that Klei will work on changing before the release of the Trade Inn but I'm just sharing my input where I see fit! Also, Klei, PLEASE know that as soon as you release any sort of update to help add some control to your game's economy. The community will adapt to the changes very quickly even so to the point where there might not even be a way to undo it... Just be careful...

END RANT

[Mikeadatrix]

5 minutes ago, Fidooop said:

I didn't read absolutely everything in this thread but I did read quite a lot of it! So I'm sorry if I repeat something somebody else said...

The way I see it, if the Trade Inn can't allow you access to every single item then there shouldn't be a Trade Inn at all period. Because whether or not items get marketable non-TradeInn items' prices will STILL skyrocket to the point where nobody can get them unless they find a lucky drop. This is going to make it terrible for anyone who wants to get these better items!

If not marketable people will just skyrocket the prices to above a CS:GO knife or even a high tier TF2 unusual and they'll want keys... A lot of keys... Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a TF2 key by trading now adays? That economy is broken all to heck and it all started the day the F2P update was released... It used to be simple: Play the game some, get your items, trade up a little here and there, OH LOOK! I've got 2 refined metal now! I can buy one of those key thingies... NOW it's like what? 20 refined for a key? I haven't checked lately because I completely gave up on TF2...

Speaking of keys... Do you know why they are 20 refined? Because of idlers... Dirty filthy idlers! I'm not talking about the common DSTer that goes and idles their 4 skins for the week... I'm talking about the horrid people that go out and get about 10 accounts to idle out their items so they can get the good stuff... and once they get the good stuff they straight up sell it for money as fast as possible... They abuse the system as well as peoples' wants and desires! As soon as you give any sort of monetary value to your items then all you'll get are idlers and that will wreck the economy faster than you can say some word that'll take you 2 weeks to say....

Ontop of that, the fact that you are trading 9 whole commons for a classy is insanity! o_o
With the current droprates of the items you'd be better off getting the classy you're wanting by waiting for it to drop or just buying it dirt cheap off of somebody who's wanting to trade it... They sure as heck aren't getting 9 commons for their single classy! and they won't want to throw it along with 8 other classies away into a single spiffy... Again... droprates are so common with even spiffies that they aren't worth 9 classies and especially not 81 commons... See how fast that added up on itself?

 

In conclusion... (ok, maybe not... just realized this is at half rant...) Items are going to need to be ALL worthless (even if they are hyper rare) or you're going to run into a lot of problems... The way it is now... All items have no monetary value and are technically worthless. Sure some people think "Oh, I can go sell this for a key or 2!" and they get away with it... but they don't have reason to go much higher and they won't even find that many buyers... If every single item gets put into the Trade Inn in a way that is fair matching it against drop rates then all items become completely deprived of value and you will never run into any problems with idlers or people running the prices way up.

So we've got a few choices:
1: Keep everything the way it is now and never change it at all.
2: Never put anything on the steam market and put everything into the Trade Inn.
Why no Steam market? As said before, the idlers will take the cake as soon as you flaunt it! And they won't even stop to think it's a lie.
Unless... (I'm not sure how this would work out but) if the Trade Inn became an ingame store just like TF2's Mann Co. and Klei was able to set prices for each and every one of their items (Klei being a nice company that doesn't money hoard would lead to a very cheap store.) They'd then be able to put items out on the Steam Market and people would be restricted to selling their items for LESS than the Trade Inn's prices... Leading to a fair market! Also leading to far less idlers... Sure some idlers will arise but not as many!

Now, I'm not saying the above HAS to be done... These are only recommendations ^

I do appreciate the work that the devs have put into the skins and drop rates thus far... but I'm really worried something horrible will happen making it so hard to get items that I'll just give up on my goal to get every single one... I'm a completionist, dangit! I really don't care about making a profit or nabbing a few quick bucks off of items, I just want the items! And if they all end up costing insane amounts of cash then I won't really enjoy the trading system anymore and then when you find people on a server wearing these $300 items... Flaunting them about... Well it just adds insult to injury!

I know I've talked about things @JoeW has stated that Klei will work on changing before the release of the Trade Inn but I'm just sharing my input where I see fit! Also, Klei, PLEASE know that as soon as you release any sort of update to help add some control to your game's economy. The community will adapt to the changes very quickly even so to the point where there might not even be a way to undo it... Just be careful...

END RANT

Truer words have never been said Fid. Glad you could share a piece of your mind.

[Mikeadatrix]

32 minutes ago, Fidooop said:

Unless... (I'm not sure how this would work out but) if the Trade Inn became an ingame store just like TF2's Mann Co. and Klei was able to set prices for each and every one of their items (Klei being a nice company that doesn't money hoard would lead to a very cheap store.) They'd then be able to put items out on the Steam Market and people would be restricted to selling their items for LESS than the Trade Inn's prices... Leading to a fair market! Also leading to far less idlers... Sure some idlers will arise but not as many!

 

Actually this idea is GOLD. This would allow money to go to Klei but not have a 300 Wigfrid. Unless Klei charges that much.....

[Fidooop]

3 minutes ago, Mikeadatrix said:

Actually this idea is GOLD. This would allow money to go to Klei but not have a 300 Wigfrid. Unless Klei charges that much.....

Now, see the problem with this is that Klei would have to set a price for and SELL every single one of their items! Otherwise items that aren't being sold will dwindle in value making them worthless.... Like... say they ended up only selling Distinguisheds and Elegants.... well everything else would be so devalued by that point that nobody would ever want common to spiffy and you'd HAVE to buy the elegants and distinguisheds that you want... Then we've got it unfair for 1 side again! We want it fair for those who have time ASWELL as those who have money, right? Set up proper prices and anybody will easily be able to trade up as well as anybody easily being able to pay for the items! simple as that. (well, I mean probably not easy if you're trading for the rare items... but easy enough that it isn't impossible!)

[Mikeadatrix]

Just now, Fidooop said:

Now, see the problem with this is that Klei would have to set a price for and SELL every single one of their items! Otherwise items that aren't being sold will dwindle in value making them worthless.... Like... say they ended up only selling Distinguisheds and Elegants.... well everything else would be so devalued by that point that nobody would ever want common to spiffy and you'd HAVE to buy the elegants and distinguisheds that you want... Then we've got it unfair for 1 side again! We want it fair for those who have time ASWELL as those who have money, right? Set up proper prices and anybody will easily be able to trade up as well as anybody easily being able to pay for the items! simple as that. (well, I mean probably not easy if you're trading for the rare items... but easy enough that it isn't impossible!)

Yeah. I agree.

[TemporaryMan]

Will idle farmers move to DST en masse the way they did with TF2?  Last I checked TF2 and Steam accounts are free, while DST is $15 for two copies.

@t0panka I don't think the commons are trash; it's just difficult to trade spares for classies because there's so many of them in circulation.  I actually like a bunch of the commons and have every intention to keep them.  And as for the fear that elegants would be devalued on Day 1 after the roll-out of the Trade Inn if it includes them, it's actually closer to Day 12,001.  It takes 9 commons to make a new classy and 81 to make a new spiffy.  That's more than 5 months of commons just for one spiffy.  If it's 9:1 for the other two tiers it will take 3 and three-quarter years just to get one distinguished item from commons.  And if I want to flood the market with "trash" elegants it's going to take a while because I won't see my first elegant item from the Trade Inn before I turn 64.  That's 34 years just for a back bat.  If anything, I'm concerned the Trade Inn's exchange rate is so low we won't see it used often, the massive backlog of commons won't budge until they really are 81 for a spiffy, and that will make it much harder to purchase a distinguished or elegant item with commons, classies and spiffies than it is today.

I've made ~5% to ~10% profit on my trades since I mostly do 1:1, I've had 2 elegant and 1 distinguished item, and I say I only want 1 or 2 (or 33) items and don't care about the rest, so I think I'm in the category of traders you describe.  But I do in fact have a specific wish list and it's pretty evenly split between commons, classies and spiffies.  

Spoiler

High Priority                    Low Priority

WeirdoBob's Soul        X        Green Rucksack        
                                 Red Rucksack        
Tuxedo                  X        Orange Rucksack        
Red Buckle Bag                   Brown Tweed        
Blue Buckle Bag                  Gray Tweed        
Catcoon Blue Backpack   X        Low Heels         
Forever Green Backpack           Tuxedo Gloves        
Gray Buckle Bag                  Brown Pants             X
Green Tweed             X        Brown Skirt             X
Tan Tweed               X        Tan Pants               X
White Suspender Shirt   X        Tan Skirt               X
Blue Pants              X        Gray Pants              X
Blue Skirt              X        Gray Skirt              X
Green Pants             X        Black Hand Covers       X
Green Skirt                      Red Hand Covers         X
Canadian Boots                   Black Pants             X
White Hand Covers       X        Black Skirt             X

 

But you're right, I won't just give away all the stuff I don't want.  I still expect a fair trade.  And what's wrong with that?  I'm not running a charity here.  I mean, who just gives away an elegant item?  I fully expect there will be more skins in the future so if I get something I don't particularly want or need I'd rather keep it to trade when something new comes along.  I don't think it's fair to lump a trader like myself who worked* sort of for everything I have and set aside some savings* sort of with people who asked for a free gift of "the one thing they'll ever want" who then turned around and sold it for keys.  I didn't exploit anyone's charity and I'm sticking to my stated plan. 

@Fidooop And that's not mentioning that paying cash for useless in-game cosmetics is, well... horse armor.