[endgame] End to game, Demon Victoria

[KonradosHut]

I actually think you guys already have it planned, BUT I'd lik to express my opinion on the matter anyways, in case you, people from Klei Entertainment, haven't really thought about having an end to the game...

So we have the plot, the characters were pulled away from their own dimension by a demon, who puts them into that weird and mysterious land, and now they have to survive it's dangers and find a way to get back home. The question is, are they ever going to go back home?

I say: YES! Please, let that happen!

Why?

Well, I know that surviving is cool, and is a game genre, in and of itself, BUT there are those like me who like to see and end to the plot, a resolution to all our struggles. But I think it can be optional, so those who still want to prove their surviving prowess can still stay on that land for days beyond counting.

The end of the game should come in the form of a last challenge, a last struggle. An epic battle against the demon (who would be incredibly hard to summon), giving you the resources to build the portal back home.

And what would you get by doing that?

Well, when you cross back to your homeland, the game might do the same it does when you die: grant you experience for the days you survived (and a boost, for beating the game). That is just to have that feeling of accomplishment!

But, again, I think you guys already have something like that planned, and I don't want any spoilers, I'd just like to know that it is going to happen. (And, may I suggest releasing such feature only when the game is truly released? =D)

On a side note: even with all my love for survival games (such as Minecraft, Terraria, and so on) those games continue to disappoint me, having no true end, no true plot, and no true feeling of accomplishment. Yes, I am willing to give up on the empire I built with my own hands just to have the right to say: I BEAT THAT GAME. After all, playing games is supposed to feel like having another life, multiple lifes. And here I say: no life is supposed to be eternal, because then you would never have the feeling that it was worth anything.

[Toaster Fu]

It could always be a tragic end for Wilson…

[Kevin]

Ha! We talk a *lot* about the end game, around the office. We're currently working on flushing out the "mid game", and adding more things to do to keep players interested for longer.All I can say is that we have some long term plans in the works...

[Toaster Fu]

Any use poking you for more info.

[Kevin]

Nope! Anything I tell you now would change before we got around to implementing it. I try not to mention things that I'm not sure will make it into the game (eventually).But feel free to speculate amongst yourselves!

[Toaster Fu]

Dang it, your excuse is valid. Well long term would mean big plans… nope, I got nothing.

[KonradosHut]

Kevin, GREAT!Actually, I was wondering if there would be an "ending". "The end". Because, well, other games that revolves around surviving have "end game" stuff, but they tend to be just the hardest part of the game, and when you beat that, you just continue playing the same game, with the same stats, the same character, in the same world. That is not really what I am looking for. I really want something to make me feel like: "great! I beat the game, now I can go play something else, or maybe try to beat the game again with another character!"

[Serrrg]

I really want something to make me feel like: "great! I beat the game, now I can go play something else, or maybe try to beat the game again with another character!"

The big question is, will there be replayability in the game, if you actually BEAT the game with making a portal or beating a boss..? Minecraft and Terraria are so popular because they never end, because you have always stuff to do and so on... If the game will say a some kind of "game over or FIN", then the most part of the players will switch to other games. Because the game will be able to be beaten only with one kind of solution, right? and after doing it once, not veryone would want to do the same thing again to win the game.

[Cellusious]

i know a good end game.YOU DIE AND HAVE TO START OVER.

[Excess]

I suggested a while ago something to "force" in a way the players to explore the whole map. It may not be exactly end-game material but I think it could be a start...

I suggest finding special unique items that would be scattered throughout the map.

For example: Making a Maxwell voodoo doll. This could require you to find:

[*]Some bones of his skeleton, buried on a specific grave.

[*]Some beefalo wool, but not any beefalo, one with a different wool color (A black sheep kind of beefalo?)

[*]The necklace of a pig king. He would eventually give it to you if you give him enough meat, or if you gave hats to all of his followers.

[*]Some ropes tainted black on a swamps pond.

[*]A paper sheet with some voodoo stuff written on it. How would you do that? By using charcoal on a paper sheet on a full moon night.

All of this ingredients would be listed, with they corresponding hint-filled descriptions, on the Magic section of the crafting menu.

What happens when you make the doll? I don't know... burn it to invoke Maxwell?

Regarding having and end or not. I'm in conflict with this. I do like what proposed Proyect Zomboid because the resources there are finite. You truly survive until you die, either eaten by zombies or by starving.

But here, you have renewable food sources, you can extinguish the baddies and live happily ever after enslaving the piggies and burning down forests.

In order to keep people interested, you have to change things around to create a new experience every time you play. How can that be accomplished?

[*]New characters.

Each with an unique "specialty" that would have new interactions with the known elements. And I'm not just talking about building just the one thing or saying cute/spycho/hungry things when looking at the bunny. They have to change several things in order to feel it's NEW, and not just a re-flushed character.

[*]Increasing difficulty.

Have different challenge options unlock as the characters unlock, and let you tick as much as you want. For eg:

[x] Start on a swamp island

[x] Tougher monsters.

[_] Longer nights.

[x] Less berry bushes and veggies.

[_] Crappier tools.

[_] Spider raids every full moon.

You won the game vanilla? That's nice. Now do the same with 3 challenge options at the same time

What else people? Come on, think, THINK!

[Toaster Fu]

Maybe a evolving ecosystem that would eventually become more dangerous then the player is able to handle, so that Sooner or later you would be at the bottom of the food chain. It wouldn't be a ending, but it wouldn't be survive until you starve thing either.

[KonradosHut]

Serrrg, that's why I said it should be optional, a thing that the player does if he wants to, if he doesn't, he can just continue living in that dimension for as long as he can without starving.

[Fishbertus]

Personally, don't starve has always been like a mix between things like Binding of Isaac and Terraria, etc..I would like to see something like Excess said, you can still have an endgame, but also challenges (like Binding of Isaac)I think a great endgame would be if you had to keep going to harder islands further away, until you reach the final one and do some weird thing to end the story, but it would also depend on the character.But the end should be optional.I still want to survive forever

[Subhazard]

Wait for updates that is. Got in a discussion about Don't Starve with my gaming group, as we are wont to do with our flavor of the week.Here's a snippet of the conversation about a possible endgame, or 'next level' of Don't Starve.[9:41:41 PM] Ethan Carter: The game just needs more endgame.[9:42:05 PM] Ethan Carter: Imagine if the pig king, after you give him enough high quality food, he opens a one way portal to Demon Victoria[9:42:18 PM] Ethan Carter: A victorian city where everyone is a lizardman in dapper outfits.[9:42:38 PM] Ethan Carter: A giant sprawl of filth. Cobble streets, filthy gutters, citizens with shops and jobs.[9:42:50 PM] Ethan Carter: And you. With nothing. You're homeless, and you're hungry.[9:42:59 PM] Ethan Carter: This is the second layer of hell that you must conquer.[9:43:54 PM] Ethan Carter: Dig through the trash to find scraps of food, find haypennies stuck between the cracks of the street, deal with street urchin gangs, and bigger gangs.[9:44:05 PM] Ethan Carter: Every night, everyone goes inside and the hound cops roll through the street in force.[9:44:29 PM] Ethan Carter: A giant herd of hounds in police uniforms, attacking anything on the street, and destroying anything built on the street (can't make a base on the street)[9:45:01 PM] Ethan Carter: So, at night, you have to stick to the alleys. The problem with the alleys, is that they're so narrow, and it's rare that you'll have enough space to make a base.[9:45:14 PM] Talon: and the sewers[9:45:21 PM] Talon: wich are even worse. Rats, disease. More filth.[9:45:22 PM] Ethan Carter: Yes the sewers, filled with nasty creatures as well.[9:45:30 PM] Talon: mini krakens[9:45:37 PM] Ethan Carter: The currency of the town is gold nuggets[9:46:11 PM] Ethan Carter: If you're smart, you can do something like, become the leader of your own gang, or buy a shop[9:47:05 PM] Ethan Carter: Also, you can take whatever you want through the portal, but unless you're wearing a dapper vest and a top hat, people will ignore you, spit on you, and urchins will rob you[9:47:12 PM] Ethan Carter: So, no backpack.[9:47:21 PM] Ethan Carter: I mean, you can try, but it'll be hard to hide[9:57:27 PM] Talon: Repair an old factory to produce your own metalworkings, or baked goods.[9:57:54 PM | Edited 9:58:10 PM] Talon: Even lure the dog-cops into rival gang teratory to make them slaughter your enemies.[9:59:17 PM] Ethan Carter: YupTo expand on this, this would continue the theme of the title 'Don't Starve' but in a different way. While the first area you must rely on your inventiveness, and observational skills, along with a little trial and error, Demon Victoria you must rely on your ability to handle yourself in a bleak world of scarcity, where you must be either INCREDIBLY frugal, or incredibly ruthless to get ahead. Everyone's richer than you, these are all the people that made it through the first world and joined this Victorian society, and they've all had a considerable head start. This city was raised and grown long before you started your journey in the raw landscape you woke up in.You conquered the world of nature, now you must conquer the world full of people who have done that too.Games never do this sort of 'pan out' scope that spore tried. It's risky, but if it's pulled off right, it can feel like an adventure.So yeah, that's my idea. Let me hear your thoughts, but make sure to think of this as simply a brainstorm, rather than a budget meeting where we all think we need to tell the devs what they should spend their time on for efficiency's sake. They're smart, they can handle it.

[horatio_svetlana]

I'd like a Demon Victoria Cityscape to be a sequel. It's really a great premise that fits and has similar mechanics to it as Don't Starve, but I think the beautiful thing about the game as it is now is that doesn't abandon it's parameters.Putting a city as the next part of the game sort of puts the wilderness in a smaller box than if it was just wilderness the whole time, in my opinion.

[TylerTheDragon]

I suggested a while ago something to "force" in a way the players to explore the whole map. It may not be exactly end-game material but I think it could be a start...

Regarding having and end or not. I'm in conflict with this. I do like what proposed Proyect Zomboid because the resources there are finite. You truly survive until you die, either eaten by zombies or by starving.

But here, you have renewable food sources, you can extinguish the baddies and live happily ever after enslaving the piggies and burning down forests.

In order to keep people interested, you have to change things around to create a new experience every time you play. How can that be accomplished?

[*]New characters.

Each with an unique "specialty" that would have new interactions with the known elements. And I'm not just talking about building just the one thing or saying cute/spycho/hungry things when looking at the bunny. They have to change several things in order to feel it's NEW, and not just a re-flushed character.

[*]Increasing difficulty.

Have different challenge options unlock as the characters unlock, and let you tick as much as you want. For eg:

[x] Start on a swamp island

[x] Tougher monsters.

[_] Longer nights.

[x] Less berry bushes and veggies.

[_] Crappier tools.

[_] Spider raids every full moon.

You won the game vanilla? That's nice. Now do the same with 3 challenge options at the same time

What else people? Come on, think, THINK!

Well - Heres a bright idea , each character should have a different way of killing the voodoo doll - like willow can burn maxwell , while wilson could control him with his MIND! Wendy could send her sister to possess maxwell and bring him back , forcing him to open up the portal home - while wolfgang could beat the living crap out of him , until he opens up a portal , the wickerbottom one could trap him , and make him KNIT until he lets them go back.

Also , it could add maxwell as a character - the only character with a M instead of a W

[Excess]

Well - Heres a bright idea , each character should have a different way of killing the voodoo doll - like willow can burn maxwell , while wilson could control him with his MIND! Wendy could send her sister to possess maxwell and bring him back , forcing him to open up the portal home - while wolfgang could beat the living crap out of him , until he opens up a portal , the wickerbottom one could trap him , and make him KNIT until he lets them go back.Also , it could add maxwell as a character - the only character with a M instead of a W

I approve. I would like this.Also, "M" is nothing but an upside down "W".

[TylerTheDragon]

I approve. I would like this.Also, "M" is nothing but an upside down "W".

Or is W an upside down M?

[horatio_svetlana]

Or is W an upside down M?

This is a mad house! A mad house! Stop the world I want to get off!