Some Realizations about Shipwrecked

[UnionGaming]

YOU AND EXACTLY YOU DEFINE EVERYTHING THAT IS WRONG WITH THE ENTIRE GAMING INDUSTRY!

 

I am not normally one with a short temper but the ONLY way that feedback hits home with the developers is if you AIM FOR THEIR WALLETS! If people lackluster and low amount of content in games, do you think that Activison would have been able to make TWO DLCs out of content already on the game disc with Destiny? NO!

 

As fans of Klei, a company that respects their consumers and cares about the quality of their game, we have become spoiled. Many game companies care about the green, and little else. You know how to make feedback meaningful? You make sure it is in the developers' best interest financially to listen. 

 

I apologize, and mean no hate, but some things need to be said, and need to be said in bold, italicized capital letters.

 

is it okay if i like, love you for this?

 

[SinisterOctopus]

Another thing (or two) to keep in mind is that this has been worked on since November, so for about 10 months, and is intended to be released in fall. So if they release on December 21 at the latest, that only gives them 3 months to go back and change everything to make this meet everyone's expectations (which I don't think they should do). To all the people I keep seeing who say "such and such" because there's twice the team working on it, the majority of the DS team is working on DST, so there's really only a team and a half, if we're being optimistic.

[SinisterOctopus]

YOU AND EXACTLY YOU DEFINE EVERYTHING THAT IS WRONG WITH THE ENTIRE GAMING INDUSTRY!

 

I am not normally one with a short temper but the ONLY way that feedback hits home with the developers is if you AIM FOR THEIR WALLETS! If people lackluster and low amount of content in games, do you think that Activison would have been able to make TWO DLCs out of content already on the game disc with Destiny? NO!

 

As fans of Klei, a company that respects their consumers and cares about the quality of their game, we have become spoiled. Many game companies care about the green, and little else. You know how to make feedback meaningful? You make sure it is in the developers' best interest financially to listen. 

 

I apologize, and mean no hate, but some things need to be said, and need to be said in bold, italicized capital letters.

 

Bungie would be the developers for Destiny, while Activision is the publisher. So I wouldn't entirely blame Bungie for the greedy approach to that game.

 

As for Klei, I've only watched a few of their streams, and haven't been around the forums for long enough to know, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I got the impression that Klei didn't need us to threaten their wallets in order to make a good game.

 

I imagine that the developers are getting paid either way, and I would think that the developers would enjoy making content they enjoy more than making content just to rake in our money. That's probably the reason Bungie moved on from Halo (not that it helped them any).

 

It's far too soon to tell if Shipwrecked is going to be lackluster or have a low amount of content in it, but I doubt it will be either of these two things. So while I appreciate your (rather intense) capitalistic instinct, threatening people's wallets doesn't guarantee a better game, just a more profitable one. If Klei was indeed focused entirely on making a game that everyone will buy, rather than one that they enjoy making and we enjoy playing, we'd see a very different type of game, which is exactly what I'm afraid of.

[1v0]

I have to admit even if it's stand-alone i'm still going to buy it ... And im sure 90 % of the ppl will do the same because i'm just too big of a fan of the story/gameplay of DS . Yea I want it as DLC/expansion but I want it that way because in my opinion it will be better as such (not because it will fail as stand-alone) . 

For now I will just wait for Klei to update us on their plans . 
 

[ImDaMisterL]

I have to admit even if it's stand-alone i'm still going to buy it ... And im sure 90 % of the ppl will do the same because i'm just too big of a fan of the story/gameplay of DS . Yea I want it as DLC/expansion but I want it that way because in my opinion it will be better as such (not because it will fail as stand-alone) . 

For now I will just wait for Klei to update us on their plans . 

 

I can't agree with you more than I already do.

[oCrapaCreeper]

The worst of this entire forum is posting in this one thread, I can't tell which side of the argument here looks the most pathetic. Quite a sad day. 

[SinisterOctopus]

The worst of this entire forum is posting in this one thread, I can't tell which side of the argument here looks the most pathetic. Quite a sad day. 

 

I knew it would happen too, but I still felt the need to post this... It's my fault as much as it is anyone's, I suppose.

[XirmiX]

Bungie would be the developers for Destiny, while Activision is the publisher. So I wouldn't entirely blame Bungie for the greedy approach to that game.

 

As for Klei, I've only watched a few of their streams, and haven't been around the forums for long enough to know, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I got the impression that Klei didn't need us to threaten their wallets in order to make a good game.

 

I imagine that the developers are getting paid either way, and I would think that the developers would enjoy making content they enjoy more than making content just to rake in our money. That's probably the reason Bungie moved on from Halo (not that it helped them any).

 

It's far too soon to tell if Shipwrecked is going to be lackluster or have a low amount of content in it, but I doubt it will be either of these two things. So while I appreciate your (rather intense) capitalistic instinct, threatening people's wallets doesn't guarantee a better game, just a more profitable one. If Klei was indeed focused entirely on making a game that everyone will buy, rather than one that they enjoy making and we enjoy playing, we'd see a very different type of game, which is exactly what I'm afraid of.

That hit me hard... and I hate capitalism. But the situation here is that we (and by "we" I mean a lot of the people here and myself included) would not buy it BECAUSE we would not enjoy it. Either way, it's Klei's responsibility to make sure that their product (and that includes Capy here too) is based on the feedback of at least like 51% of those who are interested into the up-coming product. Most people who whould purchase the product are probably not part of this forum, though forum is really the only place we as customers can influence what Klei has to offer. And so whilst many would probably buy it either way, they might still be disappointed, and a lot of us, the forumers would know about how the product is like before purchase, so we wouldn't purchase it at all. Situation that we have here is that "Not Buying = Does Not Like/Want The Product" mostly. This is why a lot of us were demandful of a DLC; because we think we'll enjoy it more as a DLC expansion and not as a new game, because we already have 2 games and having more games than DLCs... I don't know; I think that's how FNAF got its haters (not saying that I hate FNAF games or that there are more people that hate the games than there are those who like the games).

 

I'm trying to explain this as best as I can, but it feels like I don't really hit the right words for some reason :L

[Hundkerchief]

Quite a sad day. 

 

I wouldn't have guessed that a petty forum squabbling could influence your day that much

[SinisterOctopus]

That hit me hard... and I hate capitalism. But the situation here is that we (and by "we" I mean a lot of the people here and myself included) would not buy it BECAUSE we would not enjoy it. Either way, it's Klei's responsibility to make sure that their product (and that includes Capy here too) is based on the feedback of at least like 51% of those who are interested into the up-coming product. Most people who whould purchase the product are probably not part of this forum, though forum is really the only place we as customers can influence what Klei has to offer. And so whilst many would probably buy it either way, they might still be disappointed, and a lot of us, the forumers would know about how the product is like before purchase, so we wouldn't purchase it at all. Situation that we have here is that "Not Buying = Does Not Like/Want The Product" mostly. This is why a lot of us were demandful of a DLC; because we think we'll enjoy it more as a DLC expansion and not as a new game, because we already have 2 games and having more games than DLCs... I don't know; I think that's how FNAF got its haters (not saying that I hate FNAF games or that there are more people that hate the games than there are those who like the games).

 

I'm trying to explain this as best as I can, but it feels like I don't really hit the right words for some reason :L

 

I think if 51% of the consumers want one thing and the other 49% want something different, than the solution isn't to pick one side or the other, because that's way too even of a split. I think it's too soon to tell exactly what Shipwrecked is going to be like, but the basic impression I got is that Klei is planning it as a standalone overhaul, and it would probably be slightly smaller than Don't Starve vanilla (part of that is just me being optimistic). I think there's a lot of value in Don't Starve and Shipwrecked being mirror experiences. Picture the deep sea, crowded corridors of Bioshock, vs the wide open, floating buildings of Bioshock Infinite, both with similar core mechanics and values, if that example is relevant enough for this argument.

[Grumble]

I knew it would happen too, but I still felt the need to post this... It's my fault as much as it is anyone's, I suppose.

I think its good that you've stated your opinion. I think everyone should be heard without others having this mentality that we are discussing high-topic issues or politics. Theres no need to roast others with differing opinions. You guys needs to stop with the "us vs. them" mentality and realize that everyone here is on the same team by just loving this game.

With that said I think there is good points on both sides. I myself would've loved if the game was integrated into DS. However, its really only up to the developers if this can be done and if they are willing to sacrifice some of the stuff they have done or have planned for the existing game.

The standalone, i think in the end will measure up to the full game in its content, but for it to become integrated into the base game most of that content i imagine will have to be stripped out or else they'd run into redundancies with the base game. Likely the current Shipwrecked world would also be shrunken enormously to compensate for the already existing ROG biomes. With that being said if all the content is integrated together you have the gameplay that will arise from that merger when you combine old with new.

Its really a tough decision. I initially wanted the content to be fully integrated into the base game but it might just not be possible, which is why I wish they would have designed it as a dlc in the beginning. If it does end up being a standalone it will likely be equally as good if not better as the base game, but I do think that it is rather wasteful when you have the standalone version as a foundation to build upon, and for me, personally, it raises questions about how future content is going to be delivered.

[Hundkerchief]

Picture the deep sea, crowded corridors of Bioshock, vs the wide open, floating buildings of Bioshock Infinite, both with similar core mechanics and values, if that example is relevant enough for this argument.

 

Psst, comparing Bioshock & Bioshock Infinite to Don't Starve & Shipwrecked is indeed not relevant

[Mueck]

I think the main problem here are the (false) expectations that people were developing for SW.

An entire month full of speculation and hype passed between the announcement of SW and the reveal of the stand-alone information.

 

The announcement uses the description "single player expansion", and for a long time that was nearly all the information we had.

What a perfect situation to build up a lot of expectations. I still can't get my head around wether that was some sort of miscommunication or the stand-alone decision wasn't even done at that time.

 

And of course, when expectations are proven false, then disappointment and frustation cause quite emotional reactions.

 

I really hope that Klei and Capy will be able to find a good solution during their meetings this weekend. I actually feel bad for them. They obviously put a lot of effort, work, love and creativity in the DLC (those crab sounds for example <3). A lot of the things we've seen are really great. That makes it even more painful to be not able to combine it with your usual DS experience.

[SinisterOctopus]

Psst, comparing Bioshock & Bioshock Infinite to Don't Starve & Shipwrecked is indeed not relevant

 

I wasn't exactly comparing them, I was comparing the fact that they could both be mirror experiences that are drastically different, while fundamentally the same. But if you don't think that's relevant, then that's fair. It was kind of a far fetched example, but it was the only one I could think of.

[alainmcd]

I think we can all agree (and I do mean all) that we have seen too little content. Three land biomes, a few different types of sea and some other unseen stuff (volcano!!) doesn't seem enough.

 

Speaking for myself, I like the idea of a new setting with new content, leaving out what doesn't fit. I really don't care if it's dlc, expansion, standalone, season pass or whatever, but I do see why Klei would want to release it as a standalone game.

[Grumble]

I wasn't exactly comparing them, I was comparing the fact that they could both be mirror experiences that are drastically different, while fundamentally the same. But if you don't think that's relevant, then that's fair. It was kind of a far fetched example, but it was the only one I could think of.

I think a better example is, again I hate to use this franchise but its the only thing i can think of, The Sims 3 and The Sims Medieval. Could medieval been designed as an expansion pack? Sure. At the same time did Medieval take advantage of different gameplay mechanics that warranted a new game? Sure.

[Hundkerchief]

I wasn't exactly comparing them, I was comparing the fact that they could both be mirror experiences that are drastically different, while fundamentally the same. But if you don't think that's relevant, then that's fair. It was kind of a far fetched example, but it was the only one I could think of.

 

No problem, I understand the mirror dimension between the two, with crabs-rabbits, toucans-birds, probably dodo-gobbler etc.

I think it would be an interesting experiment, and it was probably Klei's original intention to propose this quite bold reskin (not pejorative), and to get off the beaten track.

 

But as said before it was badly advertised as an expansion when in fact it has nothing to do with it, which could only lead to false hopes and disappointment. It's understandable, gorgeous additional content was inadvertently put glittering before our eyes, to finally be taken back.

With a glimpse of what Shipwrecked could have been, people and I can not forget Shipwrecked-dlc's perfume, and we/I still see its face in my dream and what we could have lived together ; and so we/I sulked the (interesting) experiment Klei intended. 

 

Because of this misunderstanding Klei's initiative goes up in smoke. 

[Grumble]

No problem, I understand the mirror dimension between the two, with crabs-rabbits, toucans-birds, probably dodo-gobbler etc.

I think it would be an interesting experiment, and it was probably Klei's original intention to propose this quite bold reskin (not pejorative), and to get off the beaten track.

 

But as said before it was badly advertised as an expansion when in fact it has nothing to do with it, which could only lead to false hopes and disappointment. It's understandable, gorgeous additional content was inadvertently put glittering before our eyes, to finally be taken back.

With a glimpse of what Shipwrecked could have been, people and I can not forget Shipwrecked-dlc's perfume, and we/I still see its face in my dream and what we could have lived together ; and so we/I sulked the (interesting) experiment Klei intended. 

 

Because of this misunderstanding Klei's initiative goes up in smoke.

No doubt did the miscommunication lead to a greater deal of disappointment, however I think even if it had been advertised as a standalone on day 1 a lot of people would still be upset. The delay in communication only exacerbated things.

[SinisterOctopus]

If we're going to talk about reskins... Pigs and merms, werepigs and beardlords, clockworks and broken clockworks, crows and redbirds and snowbirds. Reskins aren't necessarily a bad thing. Especially when the reskinned entity has a new maniacal cackling sound (crabs and parrots).

[Grumble]

If we're going to talk about reskins... Pigs and merms, werepigs and beardlords, clockworks and broken clockworks, crows and redbirds and snowbirds. Reskins aren't necessarily a bad thing. Especially when the reskinned entity has a new maniacal cackling sound (crabs and parrots).

I dont think we should talk about reskins because they aren't the issue. Reskins are fine and like you've mentioned are used already in the base game. The reskinning issue people have is that many of the biomes are going to be reskinned from DS so that they can fulfill the purpose they serve in completing a full game world. These reskins wouldnt be necessary however if the two entities were merged.

[XirmiX]

No problem, I understand the mirror dimension between the two, with crabs-rabbits, toucans-birds, probably dodo-gobbler etc.

I think it would be an interesting experiment, and it was probably Klei's original intention to propose this quite bold reskin (not pejorative), and to get off the beaten track.

But as said before it was badly advertised as an expansion when in fact it has nothing to do with it, which could only lead to false hopes and disappointment. It's understandable, gorgeous additional content was inadvertently put glittering before our eyes, to finally be taken back.

With a glimpse of what Shipwrecked could have been, people and I can not forget Shipwrecked-dlc's perfume, and we/I still see its face in my dream and what we could have lived together ; and so we/I sulked the (interesting) experiment Klei intended.

Because of this misunderstanding Klei's initiative goes up in smoke.

All the right words, my man, all the right words. I wish I could speak like yoy about all this.

And wow, everyone's English got levelled up from all this cackle! Now we're seeing people having written all sorts of unfamiliar and... Sophisticated words (man do I find the word "sophisticated" funny xD) >_>

[Hundkerchief]

If we're going to talk about reskins... Pigs and merms, werepigs and beardlords, clockworks and broken clockworks, crows and redbirds and snowbirds. Reskins aren't necessarily a bad thing. Especially when the reskinned entity has a new maniacal cackling sound (crabs and parrots).

 

That's why I'm saying that reskin is not a pejorative term. 

[Talavaj]

I don't mind if the game is going to be standalone, although I would prefer if the content would just be incorporated into the base game the way RotG did.

However I can't shake off the feeling that it was done so as an excuse to sell a small expansion as a full priced product.

If it is going to be priced appropriately depending on how much vanilla/rotg content is missing I will have no problem.

 

My bigger gripe however, is that it is no longer made by Klei. This fear was cemented by watching the demo which demonstrated art design and animation quality of a much lower level than the original game.

The new creatures look boring and aren't very well animated, the water does not fit the theme of the game at all, the icons are not quite right.

The whole thing just feels like a mod.

[Grumble]

Well I mean they have been quick to point out on many occasion that the game is a work in progress and is still in alpha. Even so I'm not sure what your talking about with the animations. Of the new creatures we saw, which ones stuck out to you as being poorly animated? The only thing that I could possibly understand would maybe be the snakes with their jerky too and fro motion, but honestly how else are you going to animate a snake in a 2D environment? The rest of the animations looked fine to me personally.

As for the actual design and art style of the creatures, I think they tended to lean more towards the silly side for sure but I don't think they detracted from the game, although the dogfish did seem a little out of place. Overall though I liked the designs and didn't think they were too different from the main game as Klei designed some of them and approved the others.

As for the case for the water and the icons I think there still too new, we have to get used to them. Although I wouldnt mind if they maybe darkened the hue of the water, but thats a minor complaint.

[emerphish]

I hate to bring up Destiny again, but they changed direction mid-development, and it did not end well at all. I hope that whatever the devs decide to do, they do well, because with DLC's being more than a year apart, they need Shipwrecked to retain interest in the game. 

 

I am afraid that if they make it a standalone game with around the same amount of content as vanilla DS, which is still a lot, people will feel unsatisfied after playing with RoG for so long. I recently dug my old computer out of my closet and loaded up my world with day 300 on vanilla, and it was a weirdly empty experience. If Shipwrecked isn't the size of DS+RoG there will most likely be an awkward feeling of "wait, that's it?" when exploring what Shipwrecked has to offer. And in the end, if it isn't as big or bigger, after the initial wownewstuff factor dies down people may just return to playing RoG and getting slaughtered by the dragon fly after calling giants pinatas.