Griefing is not a problem for Klei to worry about.

[Pyromailmann]

Be more specific. Which tools do you want from Klei and how would you improve the situation?

Snapshots are a thing.

But things like making people admins via console / using the player list.

Anti-fire

Rebalancing all the character for Multiplayer.

[jrose78]

Oh ok someone can bold the word effort but god forbid I say selfish. lol 

 

 

 

I think the best approach for Klei is to work on content instead of keep on bringing out patches that are aimed towards the griefing issue, that is my whole point and that's basically what OP said.

 

 

Other than a Willow nerf what has Klei done to stop griefers? You are just bitter about Willow and your words give that away. And what,  Klei can't work on content and griefers at the same time. Is there only one programmer? 

 

On another note. I mentioned locked boxes that would help the greifer problem. Lets come up with solutions not deny there is a problem. Heck, the thread title is laid out like a fact not a question open for conversation. 

[natbagle]

Oh ok someone can bold the word effort but god forbid I say selfish. lol 

 

 

 

 

 

Other than a Willow nerf what has Klei done to stop griefers? You are just bitter about Willow and your words give that away. And what,  Klei can't work on content and griefers at the same time. Is there only one programmer? 

 

On another note. I mentioned locked boxes that would help the greifer problem. Lets come up with solutions not deny there is a problem.

 

Again you keep trying to get this onto a personal level, but it's a waste of energy. If you want to know one thing I am bitter about is the quality of this forum (and the Reddit subreddit) going down rapidly.

 

If you read my post carefully, I am not denying there is a problem with it, but my point is that

a) most of that work has to be done by the community and b) it will take a bit of time for the situation to improve as the community is pretty new. It is a beta version after all and the community will grow and get better as the game gets more content.

 

Rumor says that locked boxes are already partly implemented into code and will come in future (disclaimer: it's just a rumor) and I am excited for it, but we need to be patient.

 

 

 Is there only one programmer?

Klei is actually a small business and they have very limited resources, which is the reason why people

are concerned where they put those resources into.

[Bahlsen]

Heck, the thread title is laid out like a fact not a question open for conversation. 

OP made this post shortly after I made a suggestion about griefing, Nobody can say what the devs should do or not, he's trying to be authoritative and it's disgusting. I'll respect any of the devs choice, if they don't want or don't have time for griefers we'll try to rely on mods. I'm speaking about dedicated servers by the way, as I think kick ban rollback on other servers are already perfect.

[Pyromailmann]

OP made this post shortly after I made a suggestion about griefing, Nobody can say what the devs should do or not, he's trying to be authoritative and it's disgusting. I'll respect any of the devs choice, if they don't want or don't have time for griefers we'll try to rely on mods. I'm speaking about dedicated servers by the way, as I think kick ban rollback on other servers are already perfect.

I proposed an "Admin System" (forgot where, but I guess I'll mention it here)

You (before starting your server) could limit what regular players, and admins could do.

As a host: To make someone an admin, you could go the the player scoreboard/list and click on "Make Admin" (which would be a button next to the player icon).

Also as host, things you can limit are:

-Hammering Structures placed by other players.

-Pick flowers near Beehives.

-Burning flammables (like plants, trees, items, structures, etc).

 

 If anyone gets griefed, it'd be their fault (not Klei's).

I won't go off topic again here, if you want to talk about griefing solutions, make a thread about it.

[Wolfen]

I've been seeing these whiny complaints for days now, so let me throw in my two cents:

 

I've only played with my friends, and during this time two of my friends who had never played Don't Starve before opted to pick Willow, and only Willow, each time. Inevitably, they would burn down non-renewable resources either intentionally or unintentionally. It was a constant, annoying issue, and I couldn't imagine how that'd be for public servers when there is absolutely nothing stopping a griefer from logging in as Willow and burning everything in sight.

 

The nerf was stated VERY CLEARLY as a temporary thing while Klei sorts out balancing issues prior to RoG. So the nerf won't even be permanent. Everyone instead started crying as if it's the end of the world that one character is temporarily nerfed.

 

And there is a mod already to undo the nerf: if you can't play without Willow, go activate the mod and run a server. Bam, everyone now has to opt into un-nerfed Willow in order to play on your server. Simple as that.

 

I've just been ignoring the DST community so far because the complaints seem to be: un-nerf Willow, RoG, Caves. I'd really like it if the community didn't try its darnedest to be like the Minecraft community. Just trust that the devs are working on things, report bugs when you find them, and roll with it. 

 

However, one thing to take from Minecraft: Minecraft servers allow you to disable fire/tnt/creeper grief on the admin side as well as enable/disable pvp. DST servers so far only let you choose the pvp state. Keep in mind that it's not an easy thing to code. Should Klei code it so that choosing Willow results in not being able to light fires until an admin approves you? How exactly would this solution be any different than nerfing Willow?

 

It isn't like Minecraft where you can just disable firespread or disable griefing items--the very things that are used for griefing are utterly vital to survival in DST, so you can't just create a simple toggle switch. Just as an example from the post made by Pyromailmann above me:

 

In order to have protection against hammering structures, Klei would have to set it up so that each placed entity is identified by which user places it. This would also allow for severe griefing, like a player building a wall around another player's base so that they could no longer reach their base, or trapping them inside.

 

The flower thing is probably pretty easy to exec.

 

The burning flammables would be a pretty hard sell. How would players obtain charcoal? Wait for a forest fire? What about obtaining ash? Burn a bunch of campfires?

 

Ideas are great, and everyone's got 'em--but most of them are best left to the modding community. There is a reason why Minecraft grew so robust, after all. Maybe Klei could implement some mods if they meshed well with the game. But, I digress.

 

For a tl;dr: absolutely do not un-nerf Willow--the nerf is something that is temporary and understandable.

[Chesska]

I honestly don't feel like junior forum members and people who only have one post and whose only experience with the game is Don't Starve Together have any real say in this.

 

I mean, of course you do. But I don't feel that way.

 

It's annoying to me that people are so desperate to make the game easier and easier for them to get by, and every possible suggestion for forward progress is now shot down instantaneously by "it could be abused on large servers!"

 

Well no **** it could be abused on large servers, anything could. This game started out as a single player experience and that's still really what it is. With just one more player, it's not altogether very different. And that's how I strongly feel Don't Starve Together is best played, with just a tiny handful of friends struggling to survive against the crushing odds in a world with ever-shrinking non-renewable resources.

 

The game needs to be pushed forward in a way that makes this experience more enjoyable, not neutered and watered down so people can join big cluster **** servers and chop down a few trees and build a science machine and say "I sure am proud of this little nook I've carved out of this server!"

 

It's just not in the spirit of the game. It's a survival game, not a ***** until you get what you want game.

[applebottom]

I'm on the fence about this. Griefers are annoying, but they also make DST what it is.

 

Previously, you can survive well on your own, but it was getting boring. Now you have those "Oh **** is this guy approaching my camp good or bad?" moments, and it's fun (also bad for the heart).

 

Isn't that the point of DST? More people = more chances to survive/be f*cked over by this cruel world.

 

It's okay to be annoyed about losing a base and wanting to find solutions, but like OP, sometimes the over-the-top rage posts and demands for CHANGE! SOLUTION! GIVE ME BACK MY BASE! turn me off. Honestly, if you just wanted to setup the perfect base and live happily ever after, fire up DS/RoG and play there.

 

That being said, there are some things that need to be balanced to make the multiplayer experience smooth. Like some suggestions or brainstorming threads about locking chests. Or the calm and rational wishes for "hosts to have better control tools" in this thread.

 

A good dev team should listen to their user base somewhat, but also know when a suggestion is good or bad. And IMO Klei is doing a good job with that. The suggestions and stories about trolls aren't entirely useless.

 

TL;DR Yes, griefing is annoying, but it's part of the experience. But also, yes, it's Klei's job to balance things somewhat. Though yes, not to the extent that it must be the sole focus of their development. Which it is not. Therefore people should keep sending feedback and suggestions and leave it to Klei to act on those, if one cannot do it with mods in the mean time.

[Asparagus]

*faces people who want to water down the game*

 

 

have some dirt

O___O

[Clwnbaby]

Klei needs to focus on the game right now, not the antagonistic playerbase that develops around all multiplayer games.

 

While I do kinda agree with you there is just one problem with your argument, if they don't address it no one will play their game.  I am a veteran Don't Starve player and I was stupidly surprised how much I enjoy playing the game as a multiplayer game.  Except for one thing of course.... griefers.  They ruin every day of my play experience.  Sorry I don't want to play with my friends.  I mean I do but I also want to play with strangers because honestly when I play with my friends there is no challenge.  Me and everyone I know on steam can survive hundreds of days on our own on RoG so playing Together in its current state is no challenge and I pretty much played out all my endless playthroughs in the early days of the Beta while you all  were still waiting to get a key.

 

But I digress.  Imagine this game from a new player's standpoint.  They enter a public server, because they don't know anyone to play with on a private one.  They meet a person or two and they start building a base.  Then someone comes in and destroys it, kills all of them and burns the map to a crisp.  "That sucks guess Ill go to a new map" says our hypothetical player.  They get to their next map hoping for a more enjoyable experience except guess what?  They get the EXACT same experience.  All their hard work playing ruined in 5 mins.  This goes on and on server after server and eventually our new player says "F*** this game, everyone in it is an a******.  I want my money back."  or "Im not gonna buy this," or "Ill be sure I tell everyone I know not to play this."   Now if you're trying to sell a game this isn't good news for you because you want people to play your game and enjoy it and have fun, and tell others to play it.  But this not only happens to our hypothetical player but it happens to actual new players, every day, all day.

 

Now another argument above is this is what happens in multiplayer games yada yada yada, except i've played other mulitplayer games and guess what, its not as prevalent as it is in DST.  Im sorry its just not.  And to top it off there is no way to combat greif on public dedicated servers.  If you're in a PvP server ya you can kill the griefer except now you just made him WAY stronger and impossible to stop.  So while you're right they should be working on making the game work smoothly and correctly, they are also trying to make the game fun.  And part of that is addressing all the players that make the game not fun.

[Chesska]

You're allowed to comment on the state of griefers and griefing when you can learn how to spell the word grief.

[Ghostmin]

While I do kinda agree with you there is just one problem with your argument, if they don't address it no one will play their game.  I am a veteran Don't Starve player and I was stupidly surprised how much I enjoy playing the game as a multiplayer game.  Except for one thing of course.... greifers.  They ruin every day of my play experience.  Sorry I don't want to play with my friends.  I mean I do but I also want to play with strangers because honestly when I play with my friends there is no challenge.  Me and everyone I know on steam can survive hundreds of days on our own on RoG so playing Together in its current state is no challenge and I pretty much played out all my endless playthroughs in the early days of the Beta while you all  were still waiting to get a key.

 

But I digress.  Imagine this game from a new player's standpoint.  They enter a public server, because they don't know anyone to play with on a private one.  They meet a person or two and they start building a base.  Then someone comes in and destroys it, kills all of them and burns the map to a crisp.  "That sucks guess Ill go to a new map" says our hypothetical player.  They get to their next map hoping for a more enjoyable experience except guess what?  They get the EXACT same experience.  All their hard work playing ruined in 5 mins.  This goes on and on server after server and eventually our new player says "F*** this game, everyone in it is an a******.  I want my money back."  or "Im not gonna buy this," or "Ill be sure I tell everyone I know not to play this."   Now if you're trying to sell a game this isn't good news for you because you want people to play your game and enjoy it and have fun, and tell others to play it.  But this not only happens to our hypothetical player but it happens to actual new players, every day, all day.

 

Now another argument above is this is what happens in multiplayer games yada yada yada, except i've played other mulitplayer games and guess what, its not as prevalent as it is in DST.  Im sorry its just not.  And to top it off there is no way to combat greif on public dedicated servers.  If you're in a PvP server ya you can kill the griefer except now you just made him WAY stronger and impossible to stop.  So while you're right they should be working on making the game work smoothly and correctly, they are also trying to make the game fun.  And part of that is addressing all the players that make the game not fun.

 

I disagree some point.

 

1: Veteran player NEVER ruined by grievers

2: Newbie will be much better than you think. You think Newbie is Newbie forever

 

DST is FFA multiplayer game. this is the only rule which Klei made. Honesty, there is none grievers in this game I think. People just crying about their less skilled.

 

Of course, this game should be more kind and helpful for newbies. Klei is doing these perfectly now. Cept Willow's change  lol

[leonseye]

I'm of the opinion that new players trying out a game are not going to be understanding if they come across viciously antagonistic and repugnant behaviors from the community that they encounter in-game.  Bad word of mouth travels far faster and farther than good.

 

Perhaps it's not something they need to focus their resources on at this juncture, but I think it's silly to say it's something that Klei need not worry about at all.

[ToNiO55]

well i think we can not do much against the griefers, I mean it's like all the problems on other games (cheater,hacker,trolls)

personally i have set up a backup system every day on my servers (look like snapshots), in case of problem on the map, example such as a troll which destroys all, I can put the map in a few seconds with my backup (generally players or friend warn me when there is a problem) ,but it's still would be interesting to have mods that limits this problem for griefers, but im not sure it's going to resolved all problem

it is also the administrators to monitor their servers and especially to give administrator rights to regular players or confidence, I have two friends who are admin on my servers and this limits many problems, personally i can't blame klei if they do nothing for this problem, for me klei make already a great job on this game

[Clwnbaby]

You're allowed to comment on the state of griefers and griefing when you can learn how to spell the word grief.

 

Wow dude.  I misspelled it once and you totally disregard a well constructed and totally valid counter argument.  Clearly we shouldn't even consider what you say now since instead of providing some sort of counter argument that is your response.  Way to be fickle. 

 

@Ghostmin,   Im a veteran player, a very veteran player and yes my play experience is ALWAYS ruined by griefers so already you lost me and a ton of veterans.  Just because you're good doesn't mean that some ghost that comes in and destroys your entire work make you less skilled.  You sir sound like a griefer.

[Bunni]

Wow dude.  I misspelled it once and you totally disregard a well constructed and totally valid counter argument.  Clearly we shouldn't even consider what you say now since instead of providing some sort of counter argument that is your response.  Way to be fickle. 

 

@Ghostmin,   Im a veteran player, a very veteran player and yes my play experience is ALWAYS ruined by griefers so already you lost me and a ton of veterans.  Just because you're good doesn't mean that some ghost that comes in and destroys your entire work make you less skilled.  You sir sound like a griefer.

 

Hahahaha Ghostmin is a griefer. I've experienced it first hand XD and yes I do believe griefing is a real problem in dst and a lot of players don't want to use mods to solve this problem or they don't all have 6-8 friends who can play at the same time, let alone are good enough to play (aka my friends suck at dst)    but i also enjoy  players griefing me from time to time as I think it makes the game more challenging :3 So maybe we should have kick and non kick button servers? I think that way people who want to be griefed and people who don't could each use separate servers and that way everyone should be a little bit happier?

[natbagle]

I think the discussion is derailing a bit from the main topic. The question is if Klei should provide us additional tools/changes to stop the complaints or if they have done enough.

It would make a good discussion if you provide examples if you think they should do more. We had some good suggestions here with locked chests and some people wanting characters balanced around griefing potential.

On the Reddit forums for example people agreed on a changing Wickerbottom's Tentacle book because it was used for spawnkilling on their Reddit server, which I think is not a good idea, because people will just use other means to be destructive and people will still complain about it.

 

Locked chests are nice, I want them, but we will still have daily complaints about griefing. I don't think any of those ideas will even decrease the amount of griefing, all it does is decrease the ways of griefing which will be always plentiful. I don't think that making a character change like nerfing Wickerbottoms tentacles or the Willow change will make any griefers stop. All it does is make a big part of the community angry and potentially even increase the amount of griefing.

 

 

I think developer based solutions will just lead us into another loophole, it's a never ending cycle what people abuse and there will be always a thing that people will complain about. I don't even think the hammering restriction idea will change anything.

So what needs to improve are the amount of 'friendly groups' that are out there. I think the situation will improve a significant amount when RoG is out. Not only more people will be passionate about building communities, but people will be less bored with the game and there will be less griefing, especially when more PvP game modes are out there.

 

From there we need specific wishes and complaints from experienced server moderators what they need to keep their servers 'clean'. I don't think spamming the forum with just complaints without anything constructive does anything good for the game and community - much like griefing.

 

[Ghostmin]

My Veteran means a person who can survive forever without base.

All of you guys are not veteran for me sadly.

[Clwnbaby]

My Veteran means a person who can survive forever without base.

 

Yeah anyone can do that.  You're definition of a veteran is lacking.  And just because you think thats what a veteran should do doesn't mean thats what they want to do.  But go figure from a griefer.  Im more veteran than you're griefer *** will ever be.

[rezecib]

provide examples if you think they should do more

 

1. Admin-only servers: Servers that cannot be joined unless an admin is present. This allows you to host a dedicated server and without having to babysit taking it down and putting it back up on the schedules of admins, while also protecting it from the one griefer who sneaks in during admin downtime. This would combo well with pause-when-empty.
2. Functional votekick. I'm not saying this should exist on the official PvP dedicated servers-- in fact, I would say that griefers by definition cannot exist in truly PvP environment. That being said, some people put PvP on because they just want to whack one another occasionally, so someone coming in and burning all their stuff still violates their interpretation of the rules they've set. More on that in the next suggestion.
3. Better lobby screen (this is supposed to be Seth's next project, I think). This would allow you to provide more information to incoming players, like whether you really mean this to be a free-for-all, or mostly a cooperative experience where you have the option of whacking someone to let them know you're annoyed, or whatever.
4. Administrative log. This would be a log of player actions that would be visible to admins, documenting potential griefing events. This would help prevent situations where all the players are away from base, a griefer comes along and burns down the base, takes all the valuable items, and leaves.
5. Reputation system. This would not be enabled in PvP for obvious rage-related reasons, and it would probably be good to have the option to turn it off anyway. Klei has stated they won't police in-game behavior, so something like this is probably off the table, but I hope they do reconsider. When someone griefs in clearly cooperative games-- and it definitely does happen (hosting a game called "Cooperative Paradise"-- someone joins as Webber and plots to use spider minions to attack people)-- they get away with it because we have no tools to make reputation stick. In a large, semi-anonymous community (given that people can change names easily), word of mouth is hardly adequate for spreading reputation. I would say that reputation should not be tied directly to kicking, banning, or any filtering system, but have a separate vote up-or-down. You might argue that this is better suited for a mod, but implementing a decentralized reputation system is way more technically difficult and prone to error than a centralized one, which is what Klei would be able to do.

Edit: I want to clarify that I didn't come up with these suggestions, I just compiled them here. Well, I thought of the admin-only servers last night and haven't seen that anywhere, but someone's probably thought of it before.

 

My Veteran means a person who can survive forever without base. All of you guys are not veteran for me sadly.

I think we've established that you're a griefer, but let me refute this pathetic argument anyway.

 

If you're not playing PvP, then this game is about cooperation, by definition. It's not about whether you can survive without a base indefinitely, Clwnbaby and I can definitely do that. It's about putting significant time effort into constructing things to aid your teammates (which in Clwnbaby's case will usually not be veteran, because as he's said, it's not interesting to him to play with veterans anymore because he already knows he can survive no matter what happens), and then a griefer putting in 2 minutes into tearing your hours of work down.

 

Independent of the actual content of the game, any game where you can spend hours building something up, only to have a random stranger come and destroy it in a couple of minutes, is going to have serious attrition of players due to griefing-- it's just a matter of the relative time investment required for construction and destruction... unless there are good tools for preventing it.

[Ghostmin]

Honesty, I'm not familiar about co-op.　prob you guys know a lot of things about co-op than me I think.

My thread is always about on SanFran SunFran PvP Dedicated.

 

Can you guys please come there at least once? or I will go everywhere if you guys tell me your main server.

[Pyromailmann]

My Veteran means a person who can survive forever without base.

All of you guys are not veteran for me sadly.

You have no idea of the word Veteran for DS.

Plus, you can survive without a base.

Plus, plus, people set up bases because surviving w/o a base isn't something everyone wants to do. If a Veteran wants to build a base, let them.

[SuperPsiPower]

My Veteran means a person who can survive forever without base.

All of you guys are not veteran for me sadly.

This doesnt really mean a whole lot, especially from someone who griefs to begin with. Not making a base in DST or DS doesnt make any sense. For what reason did the devs take all that time to make recipies for making a base? Crockpot, icebox, farms etc. etc. Besides the point, How does making a base prove that people are or are not "Veteran players"?

[RalphKastro]

Functional votekick. I'm not saying this should exist on the official PvP dedicated servers-- in fact, I would say that griefers by definition cannot exist in truly PvP environment. That being said, some people put PvP on because they just want to whack one another occasionally, so someone coming in and burning all their stuff still violates their interpretation of the rules they've set. More on that in the next suggestion. Better lobby screen (this is supposed to be Seth's next project, I think). This would allow you to provide more information to incoming players, like whether you really mean this to be a free-for-all, or mostly a cooperative experience where you have the option of whacking someone to let them know you're annoyed, or whatever.

so, you managed to inspire me to have an idea with your suggestion, just to steal it from my future brain in the next. I don't know if I love you or hate you, man.

[Ghostmin]

This doesnt really mean a whole lot, especially from someone who griefs to begin with. Not making a base in DST or DS doesnt make any sense. For what reason did the devs take all that time to make recipies for making a base? Crockpot, icebox, farms etc. etc. Besides the point, How does making a base prove that people are or are not "Veteran players"?

 

I think so too. and additionally, my veteran means who wont cry or complain about grievers.

Veteran should just link workshop page lol

workshop has solution already. and Klei did also.