Let's be productive

[Battal]

People do take things more personal than they should, but I'd hardly consider what anyone said in this thread "taking it personally."

Listen.  You two just got into a flame war because of an analogy.  Come on.  That's why the forums are deteriorating, not just because we are making them bad - but because we refuse to see the problem and deal with it. 

[jbeetle]

Listen.  You two just got into a flame war because of an analogy.  Come on.  That's why the forums are deteriorating, not just because we are making them bad - but because we refuse to see the problem and deal with it. 

We did no such thing. Could I have explained why his analogy was terrible to begin with rather than several posts later? yes, but that's pretty much it.

[HoneyHam]

Listen.  You two just got into a flame war because of an analogy.  Come on.  That's why the forums are deteriorating, not just because we are making them bad - but because we refuse to see the problem and deal with it. 

We're far from a flame war. If it was a flame war there'd be caps lock and asterisks everywhere. And at least 2 pages of it.

 

There's a fine line between "Flame War" and "Debate."

[Battal]

You were saying "If someone needs to look up to a mod to know how to act, they aren't mod material to begin with."

Replace mod with parent.

 

 

it's not saying that at all and that's a terribly analogy.

 

 

I wouldn't count it as derailing.

 

Also, not trying to be hostile, but saying that is basically saying looking up to your parents means you shouldn't be a parent.

de-railing.

 

 

and you can replace mod with peanut butter and jelly sandwich too. that doesn't mean it's a good analogy. mods are not parents, just like mods are not babysitters.

 

 

Jeez, sorry.

I was just trying to say, looking up to someone is normal. If I never looked up to anyone to know how to act I'd be the biggest A-hole this forum has ever known.

(Yeah, it's not in order.)

 

Okay, it's a debate.  A debate about babysitting and analogies.  Is it necessary?  No.  Is it helpful to aiding the forums?  No.  Is it derailing?  Yes.  Now let's imagine what would happen if this continued.  After a while of passing arguments back and forth, tempers flare.  Someone says something wrong.  Chaos ensues.  The thread turns into a massive war about what makes a good analogy and the benefits of parenting.  And when the thread is locked down, everyone leaves hating each other and ready to get back at their opponent at the slightest provocation.  Replace it with whatever topic you wish.  Usually, it stays the same.

 

I shall speak no further on this particular manner.

[JoeW]

Guys... two people can have differing opinions without having to prove who is right or wrong. Everything doesn't need to become an argument 

 

Moderators definitely function as an example to other forum users. However a good moderator never acts like it. A good moderator is an example because they want their presence to make the forums a better place, but understand that not everybody needs to be like them. 

 

Not everybody needs an example, but some do. 

[HoneyHam]

Okay @jbeetle, let's just agree that it's okay to look up to mods and mods play as a minor role model, but people shouldn't look up to them excessively and try to be exactly like them. Deal?

[jbeetle]

State my opinion once and move on. got it.

 

PS @Lord_Battal , I don't hate anybody on the internet. I used to, actually shortly before I joined these forums, but I found that it's not worth it

[Ephyb7]

Hey, this might sound slightly off topic but, you know how the main topic for creations and stuff is called "Art music and lore"? I really am not seeing where "music" fits in. Because I really want to share my homemade music with you guys but the forum will not let me upload any sound files. The two ways I think of this are it is intentional and the title is misleading, or, this is a glitch in the forum.

[jbeetle]

Hey, this might sound slightly off topic but, you know how the main topic for creations and stuff is called "Art music and lore"? I really am not seeing where "music" fits in. Because I really want to share my homemade music with you guys but the forum will not let me upload any sound files. The two ways I think of this are it is intentional and the title is misleading, or, this is a glitch in the forum.

can't you just put your music in a zip?

[Ephyb7]

can't you just put your music in a zip?

That doesn`t seem to work either.

[HoneyHam]

Well, I remember listening to a song someone posted before.

 

And try putting a link to another page that contains your song.

[JoeW]

The people who have made songs before either linked to soundcloud or youtube, if you have a file format that you would like to allow, let me know. We would love more fan music!

[Ephyb7]

Well, I remember listening to a song someone posted before.

 

And try putting a link to another page that contains your song.

That is what I currently do. Sometimes I`m not too sure if people could see it much.

The people who have made songs before either linked to soundcloud or youtube, if you have a file format that you would like to allow, let me know. We would love more fan music!

I can`t do YouTube, but I will see what I can do about SoundCloud

 

This is just a test https://soundcloud.com/frozenpughugger/dont-starve-creepy-forest-demo

[The Letter W]

JoeW's signature defines a mod imo

[Syd]

JoeW's signature defines a mod imo

A moderator in a different forum I visit uses the Eye of Sauron as their avatar. I think it's fitting.

[Yay]

1- No opinion

2- I don't think we need a front page the forums is easy to navigate without one /

3- YES , but if you think there is a problem between people maybe the moderator/ admin can set ignore for those arrogant people

4- Like I said times before, You need to get a moderator who isn't connected with anyone and will punish without feeling pity, So having a alternate account Is a great Idea so no negative rep gets sent flying everywhere

5- I think a "What's Hot" tab is just as good

6- This calls for a Bilingual Moderator

Other then a Few gimmicks here and there I think the forums is amazing

[23rd]

I feel like the language thing has the potential to separate people more. I don't quite remember his name, but a while ago there was a guy who spoke terrible English and once made a thread sharing "creepy" things his little sister drew with an application on his phone. I really enjoyed those, and I don't think I would have gotten the chance to see them if he'd just gone to a separate Polish or Hungarian section of the forums.

[Cynical Cynicist]

I'm surprised more people don't beg for moderator, but instead obsess over a line of text under their avatar...

[23rd]

I'm surprised more people don't beg for moderator, but instead obsess over a line of text under their avatar...

It's a magical place when I'd be more excited to see I'm called A Total Idiot than logging in to see that I have some degree of power.

[JoeW]

I feel like the language thing has the potential to separate people more. I don't quite remember his name, but a while ago there was a guy who spoke terrible English and once made a thread sharing "creepy" things his little sister drew with an application on his phone. I really enjoyed those, and I don't think I would have gotten the chance to see them if he'd just gone to a separate Polish or Hungarian section of the forums.

I completely agree, which is why I have left it open. Unfortunately it's proven difficult keeping other forum members nice to those who have less than perfect english. Perhaps just having some kind of indicator that english is not their first language might allow people the ability to be a bit more forgiving?

I have never seen that on another forum, but it seems like it could help.

[the truthseeker]

Ok guys.

What do we do?

I think we have one of the best forum communities in gaming. Right now, during this slower period, we have a chance to make it better.

What do you think we can do to improve it?

I have things that I am working on, and things that I want to see happen, I think starting a thread will help get us on the same page.

Things I am working on:

1- Spam. I am always working on spam, unfortunately they are a moving target. And we have, a LOT of them.

2- Community front page.

I am working on a front page for the forums, to keep you guys up to date on the best threads and stuff that's going on in the community.

3- Ignore

We need a better ignore system

4- Moderators

I need a better method of identifying people capable of being moderators. I am considering creating alternate accounts for people to use to moderate, to avoid community issues

5- Community "things"

More community spotlight type things. Active discussions about things of interest with the community, to go along with the front page.

6- Language gate

I am considering sectioning off areas of our forum for users who would rather communicate in language more comfortable to them.

There is more than this, but I think this is enough to chew on for now.

Use this thread to identify problem areas and strengths in our community, and suggest ways that you think we could improve it.

(NOTE: None of these things are promises, some of them may happen, some of them may not, but they are things that I am considering or actively working on)

What's key now more than ever is effective communication.

 

A lot of people are "talking" (for the sake of forum writing and posting discussions, we'll call it that,) but few are listening.

 

People are saying things and other people aren't making sure they get the meaning and assuming things or not respectively showing their differing viewpoint even if they got the point of the post.

 

I've posted it before and i'll post it again: Everybody needs to post the way they want to be responded to themselves  (and shouldn't post if they want to be treated like dirt.)

 

 Once people actively remember that (or have those who moderate make sure it doesn't get out of hand if it comes to that,) the Klei forums will improve.

 

I know now is a tough transition: Don't Starve ending, Incognita too green/not the prior DS follower's thing, not much for many to do with downtime, forum hi-jinks/longtime members leaving.

 

But if we have concerns or accomplishments we think should be shared, we need to share them in a polite and productive way (that doesn't sound like a lot of  yelling even if that was never the intent.) We all have different ideas and levels of skin thickness, but I know we all can say how something seems to us and makes us feel (please skip the emotional jokes and eye rolling here) so all sides get on the same page with what is being said and what it actually means. 

 

 

As for the JoeW list, my opinions on it:

 

 

1. Spam will always be a problem anywhere. As soon a you got the filters blocking it, some person will figure out a way to beat it to get that 1% of people actually responding and going to the site to fleece them try and make money in a highly suspect manner most of the time. Then the blocking and breaking cycle repeats. It's as old as computers and there is no perfect impregnable system to prevent it (I think this falls under Kurt Gödel's theories of nothing is perfect in the most layman's description, but I'm getting a tad off track here.) The best we can do is be ever vigilant and report it, and give time for those who monitor to respond, assess and react until the next problem presents. But there will always be people who find a way to break through...and those who will thwart them later.
2. Not sure on the Community front page. My first reaction is wondering if we needed it, but this new forum style was also in question, and look at us using it now.  What would help is if we had more info and (even better if we can do this,) like developed games, if we could give feedback and help shape what was being worked on for upcoming and future changes.
3. As stated, we need to make sure if there are problems, this is used BEFORE things get to a bad state. And it's only as good as the people who use it. if not used, you could have an intricate savvy but still useless thing. Somehow, we need to get people proactively using it and not have repercussions if they do (such as ignored users not being told they are being ignored;.) While I hate to even think of suggesting it, perhaps when those who report others are responded to, they might be suggested to use ignore first, and escalate further after this option was tried?  
4. This...ironically, this is one of the trickiest ones of all to discuss. Moderators are not employees (normally.) Moderators are volunteers. They are-if you will-role models of what a user can accomplish if they care for and want to contribute to maintaining their community above and beyond the standard posting/uploading. It's often a time-consuming and (mostly) thankless job that is unpaid (volunteer remember) falling under "things you do for your hobby." Yet many users of the forums think of them as 'their full time jobs they should be ready to respond 24/7 for us." The more veteran a user, the better their understanding of this work being volunteer and not their only thing they do, but out of love and respect for everybody active in the (in this case Klei) community. Moderator primer aside, the way it'as handled here needs to be done with the understanding that when a moderator posts something regarding a forum decision (not simply their posting contributions,) that needs to be followed just like if Klei announced it and not do any back-lash responding. This includes not giving any negative reputation (should that ever be an issue again.) Nobody should be punished for properly doing their job (paid or volunteer.) because of this, my opinion is moderators should have an option to have anonymous accounts (as well as the possibility of public accounts should they wish,) so they can't be "cyber bullied" in any of their decisions in any way. Now, as for ways to decide who should be and when you need more spots, that varies from community to community. It's best to speak with those who have done the work or are doing the work of this type in the community or similar communities, and ask what they think should be looked for when it comes how to select future people. Those who do the work often know what;s best to look for future workers. 
5. This often works. As we've recently seen, one of the problems was "people felt there was nothing to do." By having a "in the spotlight," it gives a rallying point that can be cross-linked to threads, downloads, social media and so forth. I absolutely support this idea and look forward to hearing more! 
6. I'm a little confused on this, but are you saying those who speak in foreign/technical or very specialized languages would have their own areas to communicate in maybe?

 

That should be enough for now. I hope we all can talk, listen and be listened to! 

[23rd]

I completely agree, which is why I have left it open. Unfortunately it's proven difficult keeping other forum members nice to those who have less than perfect english. Perhaps just having some kind of indicator that english is not their first language might allow people the ability to be a bit more forgiving?

I have never seen that on another forum, but it seems like it could help.

I like this idea much better. I would say a badge of some sort, but an optional one. Touchier people could see it as labeling, and that would become a mess for everyone. Alternatively, having a "first spoken language" thing to fill out on profiles would be out of the way enough that people don't feel sectioned but still allows people to easily know if the people they're talking to don't speak English well without needing to ask.

 

I feel like I'm overcomplicating this.

[Cynical Cynicist]

I like this idea much better. I would say a badge of some sort, but an optional one. Touchier people could see it as labeling, and that would become a mess for everyone. Alternatively, having a "first spoken language" thing to fill out on profiles would be out of the way enough that people don't feel sectioned but still allows people to easily know if the people they're talking to don't speak English well without needing to ask.

 

I feel like I'm overcomplicating this.

 

How about a flag(s) representing your nationality? I think it would be less striking than just slapping "Austrian" or "Chinese" on your profile/posts.

 

A badge would be hilarious, but it shouldn't really be something that designates them as "special."

[sirmentlegen]

I need to finish writing Which Doctor maybe that will give people something to talk about.

[Rabbitfist]

Maybe a Better way for posting images and Videos?