Battle of the content or "A question about the decision for cave content instead of surface content and your opinion about it"

[Spazmatic]

I feel the urge to type an introduction before going to the point, bear with me( hands over honey)! Today marks the day that the caves have been finished and ridden of their "this is a work in progress" label. For months Klei has worked on them to provide us with new content. Throughout the process, if you've been playing the test builds, you could see the caves develop and gain more content and closer to the end of development even a whole new cave layer. The caves have their own exclusive creatures and resources that you can make a variety of interesting stuff with, most of which makes your life on the island a lot easier like the Lantern. You do need to spelunk and find your goodies though.

 

Now this is something that came on my mind along the process of making the caves. I gotta say that I do like the caves, they add more replayability to the game, but they are optional as all hell. And here come's my question and point into play.

 

What would you prefer Klei made content for: Would you have rather had them make new content for the surface and not make caves at all, or do you prefer the caves over potential surface content?

 

My personal answer is: I would have rather had more surface content. The caves with their awesome atmosphere and special loot and creatures is great, but.. If you think about it, there isn't all that much to do on the surface, and there's something important missing: Variety. You may have the biggest world setting and put this and that on lots, but it's basically repeating the same biomes and creatures again and again. Now if there was more variety in creatures, biomes, dynamic world events and heck seasons (rest in piece heat season), the world would feel more varied and there would be more motivation to go and explore your world. And the content would not be so optional that some people do not even bother with it. If you think about it, there's no real motivation or reason to go in the caves besides their specific loot.

 

Caves and soon dlc are basically the easy ways out of not adding more to the core game and potentially unbalance it. The latter still has happened imho thanks to the introduction of caves ( skip winter entirely)...

 

Do note that this in no means is a rant post about the road Klei chose with the content. I love the game and spend hundreds of hours on it, all whilst having a good time with it. I am merely expressing my opinion, and feel free to do the same!  Oh and don't just go rant at the game, nor at me. I want a discussion and not a flame war. 

 

PS: Potential replies (and my responses)

 

"But there's going to be dlc that adds new surface content!" : Again the content will be optional, and this is about the free update period direction Klei went.

 

"This is a rant post, QQ some more!" : No mister Heavyweapons, stating an opinion and giving feedback is not the same as saying "dis game sucks"

 

[Dastek]

I do like the caves but given the choice I'd rather see more done on the surface.

[Hopperruss]

I like the surface more, except just for caves. It's awesome but... the surface needs more unique features.

 

Oh and TL;DR, sorry lol 

[FDru]

The main issue with the cave/ruins content is, as you said, how it's so incredibly optional. I personally see no reason to go down there other than for a challenge, since you're just much better off staying on the surface when it comes to "surviving". But that brings us back to the "surviving is boring/easy" subject.

 

Though I personally like the caves now, it wasn't until over 100+ hours in the game where I got bored enough to seek out whatever challenges they had to offer. If caving were more integral to the game, I would feel better about so much content going into them, and feel like I needed to go down there for other reasons than "ok this sucks I need to go find some way to die".

[TeoSS69]

Where's the "both" option?

I do like caves, and they make for a nice end game quest. I have  lot of fun fighting spiders with my rock lobster buddies, and explore in the dark, but at the same time i wish the surface had more variety to it. It's cool that i can make Thulecite gear but what am i gonna use it on if i already pwn all thins in the game with surface gear?
 

[Spazmatic]

I like the surface more, except just for caves. It's awesome but... the surface needs more unique features.

 

Oh and TL;DR, sorry lol 

Well, I understand walls of text aren't for everyone, so I just underlined the question part. 

 

 

Where's the "both" option?

I do like caves, and they make for a nice end game quest. I have  lot of fun fighting spiders with my rock lobster buddies, and explore in the dark, but at the same time i wish the surface had more variety to it. It's cool that i can make Thulecite gear but what am i gonna use it on if i already pwn all thins in the game with surface gear?

 

Instead of choosing an easy way out with the "both" option, I'm gonna let everyone make a decision for one of the two. This also means that you're better off thinking over what you would have rather had, instead of a compromis. Uncompromising poll options baby 

[TeoSS69]

 

Instead of choosing an easy way out with the "both" option, I'm gonna let everyone make a decision for one of the two. This also means that you're better off thinking over what you would have rather had, instead of a compromis. Uncompromising poll options baby 

I already thought it out. Both.

 

[Doomfan64]

Wow. I'm honestly surprised that there were this many people who didn't want cave content.

 

Now, yes. I do want surface content. There's not really much point in making a monster and then just sealing it away in the caves forever, where you only go down there for items of varying use. However, I wouldn't say I'd prefer them to never make caves. I like the idea of having to switch between worlds. HOWEVER, there was plenty of things to still be done on the surface, so just starting a new thing when the original is barely done is just stupid. And honestly, within 6 months I doubt they would be able to balance the surface AND add some new cave content.

[Sporb]

Well, if the options are:

A. I would have liked more surface content

or

B. I'm glad they worked on caves

 

Thennnn... I guess I choose...

C. I wish they had done caves differently.

I wish they had had the time to make opening a cave affect the surface world more, instead of just adding annoying bats.

I wish they had made it so that there was some motivation on the surface world to go and enter caves.

Or made it so you could start in caves and try to survive down there from the start.

Or integrated caves into adventure mode. For example, a world that was split into multiple parts which were connected only by caves would be pretty cool.

 

But really, out of the 2 options you've given, I think I would have preferred more surface content to caves. Basically, I want to see new content that I have some motivation to explore. I would rather they had added a better motivation to explore caves, but, if that's not an option, I guess surface content would be more suited to my tastes.

[5raptorboy777]

Well, here's a thread talking about making a sort of apocalyptic event in which you have to go underground to survive.

http://forums.kleientertainment.com/index.php?/topic/25530-an-apocalypse-event-great-plague-meteor-rain-great-impact-ice-age-evolution/

[simplex]

Except for testing purposes, the last time I went down the caves was in the Caves (aka Underground) update. I think that answers it.

[jbeetle]

I'd say it's easy to answer, and slanted in one direction, once you already know how one option ended up. One is based on reality and one is based on your ideal. The "grass is greener" effect will inevitably be strong in this scenario.

[aredshroom]

Except for testing purposes, the last time I went down the caves was in the Caves (aka Underground) update. I think that answers it.

^ This..

Given these options, I'd rather more content and variety to the surface than an optional, pseudo-renewable (?) otherworld. I still enjoyed watching the cave developments, but as others have pointed out, there's no compelling reason to spelunk until you get bored of the surface.

[Craig_Perry]

Caves? only use them once or twice to get rabbit hutches and rocks... so yeah surface stuff would've been better in my opinion

[Spazmatic]

I gotta admit I sorta saw a poll result like this coming. The majority would choose that they would rather have additional surface content. But then you gotta ask yourself, why is that? Why are the caves with their exclusiveness in drops and added replay value so left out by some people entirely? I'll have a go at some suggestions to make caves more appealing aswell, keep an eye out for that! It's obvious we cannot turn back time and get additional surface content instead of the caves, but we can still express our opinions about them. Here's my personal reasons why I think caves are left out by some:

 

- The content is too optional

- Caves are considered endgame. But when you make it to the endgame, you have basically conquered everything on the island surface already. Even though the worms, nightmare cycle and Ancient Guardian could give you a tough time, why would you even endure them?

- An act of principle. Caves, despite their optional-ness, allow you to avoid winter entirely... And hounds aswell to a certain degree.

- No real reward for venturing to the ruins and back, besides craftables (and chess piece followers/bunnymen/rock lobters). If a certain action in the ruins could open up new gameplay mechanics for the surface, would that make it more appealing to go down there?

- You don't need to go down there. If there was a let's say teleportato piece or even the Adventure Mode portal down there, that would give you some reasons to go there if you want to go to AM or start an entirely different world..

[the truthseeker]

Yeah agree with the post above mine. besides the Batalisks and followers now following you across realms, the caves don't affect the surface world or vice versa. It feels like an optional content made for players in endgame, not a novice person trying to survive elsewhere. Besides, only in caves do you have all your stuff instantly turn to rot, simply because they are caves. That is dumb. Perma-death is supposed to take care of penalty and it has no reason in game-play anymore. 

 

After seeing what was donre and not done (like a whole other level and lava mechanic and heat mechanic,) I'd rather had had them work more on the surface and make that surface content also possible in a more limited cave play. 

[Castaway on the Moon]

We are compelled to go into caves, to go into the ruins and to find the ancient guardian because there is nothing left to do aboveground.

 

WE MUST HAVE BEARS!

[Castaway on the Moon]

 

- The content is too optional

- Caves are considered endgame. But when you make it to the endgame, you have basically conquered everything on the island surface already. Even though the worms, nightmare cycle and Ancient Guardian could give you a tough time, why would you even endure them?

 

I'm glad you said this because I believe it is an instrinsic game component. The fact that the caves remain optional is the only way that this game can appeal to both the hardcore player and the one having trouble just staying alive.

 

The difficulty gap is simply too big. Anyone forced to go into the caves and ruins as a new player would hate this game to no end.

 

Quote from a wikia user which nicely sums up this option:

 

 

For the purpose of survival there is absolutely NO REASON to go down to the caves especially down to the ruins. The reasons for going there are for treasures that are nice to have (but will never NEED in order to live comfortably aboveground) and for a special challenge that should be enticing to more skilled gamers. Along with this challenge comes, among other things, a pretty high risk of death. Just take it into account. If you've survived a couple hundred days and find no challenge in beefalo herding, bee box construction, berry farms, etc  then please go down there and experience a bit of pain. I recommend 2 seasons of prep before going in for the boss - that is prepare health foods, sanity foods, highest quality armor and sanity equips, blow darts, ice wand, mats for tents and fires, and so on

If you're enjoying the challenge of just surviving past 100 days then please stay away from underground- explore caves a few times to build a lantern or something, but do not go down into the ruins.

[the truthseeker]

So pretty much, they spent the last several updates doing almost everything for endgame. 

 

I'd rather they have made content for all levels of players. 

[Cynical Cynicist]

Why the hell do depth worms have antennas anyway? Are they supposed to be some sort of Angler fish? In that case, what are they attracting with their lure, because at the moment it doesn't even function like a lureplant's lure. I think it's also safe to assume that they have night-vision as well.

[the truthseeker]

Yes, the antennae are supposed to represent how they feel tremors. A cross between an insect and a worm if you will. 

 

Or an Ankheg, and that's a Dungeons and Dragons Reference. 

[gnarlytreeman]

honestly i think they should have revised the graphics engine a little. there is no reason for my lappy to overheat playing a game with sketch art. it's a sign of bad programming and game design for something like that to not have been handled long ago.

[Cynical Cynicist]

Yes, the antennae are supposed to represent how they feel tremors. A cross between an insect and a worm if you will. 

 

Or an Ankheg, and that's a Dungeons and Dragons Reference. 

 

Actually, it's not really an antennae. If it was supposed to be a sensitive instrument used to detect tremors, why would it have a large lump of organic matter on the end that doesn't serve any other purpose than providing light...