Traps!

[Mike23Ua]

Traps!! Hamlet had them, DST needs them. The TL:DR is that Traps prevent you from “Ruins Rushing” or speed running through the game and forces the player to make tactical decisions based on navigation & timing to carefully navigate through the Labyrinth.

Spoiler

 

[Habakkuk]

Yes, caves are perfect for that =)

[Hi.]

I think the ruins already has enough danger, and technically the ruins does have traps (the trapped chests in the maze) But I kinda feel like the clockworks already act like “traps”

[Littlefat1213]

4 hours ago, Hi. said:

I think the ruins already has enough danger, and technically the ruins does have traps (the trapped chests in the maze) But I kinda feel like the clockworks already act like “traps”

Also the spider net trap in maze, but it has lost the existence significance since people can avoid trigger that by walking on the overhang area.

[Copyafriend]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Traps!! Hamlet had them, DST needs them. The TL:DR is that Traps prevent you from “Ruins Rushing” or speed running through the game

Bro there is literally no way to prevent speedrunning, you could add traps to “deter” it, and maybe even make it unlikely for the casual person, but for anyone who has ran the gauntlet 10+ times, its just background noise that gets avoided just as easily as we dodge knights now. 
 

and why is being able to tackle it early if you’re skilled bad? People beat bosses without being hit, i think they can manage to survive the ruins early even if you literally added a bullet hell section.

[mykenception]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Traps!! Hamlet had them, DST needs them. The TL:DR is that Traps prevent you from “Ruins Rushing” or speed running through the game and forces the player to make tactical decisions based on navigation & timing to carefully navigate through the Labyrinth.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

you underestimate players that rush ruins and speed runners 

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, mykenception said:

you underestimate players that rush ruins and speed runners 

Oh not at all, but the traps spice things up a bit and all great Roguelikes/Lites seem to have them.

Nothing ruins a good Spelunky run quite like accidentally stepping on a bear trap you didn’t see coming.

Traps, working in conjunction with enemies is what makes these games Deadly dances with death.

While it’s not the BEST game you can play, I recommend trying Outbreak Endless Nightmares, Dodging & blasting away zombies is the easy part, it’s the needing to dodge them/blast them away before a environmental trap triggers on you that makes things more complicated.

[Cheggf]

Traps would not do anything to prevent ruins rushing or "speedrunning". I think they would be fun, but your motivation seems to be more on punishing people who play differently to you than genuinely wanting to navigate the traps.

[mykenception]

40 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Roguelikes/Lites seem to have them.

I think DST isn't roguelite anymore

can you call Rust roguelite?

 

regarding traps, yeah I'm up for more challenge and spice, though I'm pretty sure they cant prevent rushes and speed running

I'm pretty sure we'll find a way to use traps to farm mobs and/or cheese bosses anyway, lmao

Edited March 11 by mykenception

[arubaro]

Why should be traps to prevent rushing? I thought you wanted to suggest a fun mechanic not something to obligate players to play in a way

Envy is bad

[Cheggf]

15 minutes ago, mykenception said:

I think DST isn't roguelite anymore

can you call Rust roguelite?

 

regarding traps, yeah I'm up for more challenge and spice, though I'm pretty sure they cant prevent rushes and speed running

I'm pretty sure we'll find a way to use traps to farm mobs and/or cheese bosses anyway, lmao

If you never rolled back and played in Survival mode DST was a bit of a Roguelike before Wilson's rework, but now it's more like a Roguelite. It isn't really either of them, though.

Edited March 11 by Cheggf

[mykenception]

5 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

If you never rolled back and played in Survival mode DST was a bit of a Roguelike before Wilson's rework, but now it's more like a Roguelite. It isn't really either of them, though.

I think its because of the multiplayer sense

the game requires an ample amount of investment to progress in each world which means more time spent, coupled with multiplayer and the ease of resurrection methods. So the aspect regarding roguelike games have been lost and yeah its more similar to roguelites. Still, most roguelite games I know has fast gameplay, with quick and small branching loops (games I know are Nuclear Throne, Vagante, Caveblazers). DST doesn't really have adventure mode (except for a mod) and it's current questline and progression isn't as linear to make it comparable to the Singleplayer DS experience and to keep comparing it to those games are rather odd.

[Cheggf]

8 minutes ago, mykenception said:

I think its because of the multiplayer sense

the game requires an ample amount of investment to progress in each world which means more time spent, coupled with multiplayer and the ease of resurrection methods.

Barony is one of the most roguelike games ever and it's typically 2-10 hours long, multiplayer, and has easy revivals.

9 minutes ago, mykenception said:

So the aspect regarding roguelike games have been lost and yeah its more similar to roguelites.

The skill trees make it more like a roguelite instead of roguelike since they persist between worlds. Nothing else is roguelite about the game, since that's the only thing that persists.

9 minutes ago, mykenception said:

Still, most roguelite games I know has fast gameplay, with quick and small branching loops (games I know are Nuclear Throne, Vagante, Caveblazers). DST doesn't really have adventure mode (except for a mod) and it's current questline and progression isn't as linear to make it comparable to the Singleplayer DS experience and to keep comparing it to those games are rather odd.

Yes, DST is only a bit of a roguelite since it doesn't really have anything in common with them other than dying maybe meaning the game starts over. I'd use "Sandbox", "Time management", and "Survival" to describe it waaaaaaaaay before any mention of Rogue. 

[Mike23Ua]

12 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Barony is one of the most roguelike games ever and it's typically 2-10 hours long, multiplayer, and has easy revivals.

The skill trees make it more like a roguelite instead of roguelike since they persist between worlds. Nothing else is roguelite about the game, since that's the only thing that persists.

Yes, DST is only a bit of a roguelite since it doesn't really have anything in common with them other than dying maybe meaning the game starts over. I'd use "Sandbox", "Time management", and "Survival" to describe it waaaaaaaaay before any mention of Rogue. 

Funny how it ended up in a list of top Xbox RogueLike/Lite games then huh?

42 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Why should be traps to prevent rushing? I thought you wanted to suggest a fun mechanic not something to obligate players to play in a way

Envy is bad

Peoples definition of “Fun” will vary from person to person.

YOU might be one of those types of players who get frustrated and rage quit super easily when the following scenario happens to you:

Room full of Spike Traps activated on the floor, Enemies immune to taking damage from them so NO you can’t use the traps to your Advantage to kill them, Narrow Hallways with no choice but to wait for the retraction of the traps and attempt to cross through carefully.. To top all that off the room is on a Death lock timer so if you spend to long not escaping the poisonous gas- You will Die. Sure you could’ve totally just watched the traps and run through while they’re down, but there’s also zombies who are immune to those traps that will get in your way and block you from just running through.

In this scenario- You get good, or you get dead.. and at that point you can rage quit the game & say it’s unplayable, or you could be hard headed and refuse to give up no matter how unfair it may seem to some players.

I find it odd that you guys are “Okay” with a bunch of 27,500 hp bosses, but you don’t seem to want rooms full of traps requiring careful navigation, timing and planning.

[arubaro]

9 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

YOU might be one of those types of players who get frustrated and rage quit super easily when the following scenario happens to you:

Dont make that kind of assumptions without with your trajectory in the forum 

I do enjoy traps, i dont rage quit when something is difficult neither come to a forum to cry about nerfing them. For that reason i though you will be suggesting something for the sake of fun, instead i found this:

9 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

is that Traps prevent you from “Ruins Rushing” or speed running through the game and forces the player to make tactical decisions based on navigation & timing to carefully navigate through the Labyrinth

Basically that sounds like "i cant, nobody should can". If nobody can rush nobody can tell me "you can rush X" when you discuss balance. 

Ruins (i bet is the area you refer as labyrinth) doesnt need more content when is the only place visited in the entire caves

Now, if you want hamlet's like area you could suggest something like what i suggested: added something like that temples that regenerates every X time so we have a new dangerous area with a new map layout everytime they respawn

17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

find it odd that you guys are “Okay” with a bunch of 27,500 hp bosses, but you don’t seem to want rooms full of traps requiring careful navigation, timing and planning

I want both but not in a place that is already dangerous and is interesting enough to keep me visiting it from 1st atumn to X000 days. I enjoy exploring carefully like i enjoy having real boss fights and not something you can brute force by holding F with my daily equipme until the low boss hp goes to 0 seconds later

I find odd that you dont visit the ruins,  you even complained about the sawhorse recipe being locked behind visiting a dangerous place (you just need to reach the entrance..) but you want their danger buffed and atacks if someone disagrees

You want exploration and challenge but you ignore the ones already implemented 

[mykenception]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Funny how it ended up in a list of top Xbox RogueLike/Lite games then huh?

do you think Klei is conforming the game around an Xbox tag?

 

DST is survival sandbox, that part hasn't changed. 

If random generation + permadeath is what classifies the game as roguelike then there are many games out there that can also be classified as such even when they're mostly not (Rimworld, Astroneer)

Edited March 11 by mykenception

[prettynuggets]

3 hours ago, mykenception said:

do you think Klei is conforming the game around an Xbox tag?

this make me think why people, like mike, going so hard about tags that being used describing the games, especially claiming DST is roguelike/lite.. sorry for being OOT but i really want to say my opinion on this. 

Im not a big fan of tags, labels or anything..
but i think tags should have be a flexible things that represent on the game that being presented in conversation (that might/not change in short or after long update period.) and i sincerely believe it should not gate keep how the game should have been made into the future just because now it labelled with certain tags.
 

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Funny how it ended up in a list of top Xbox RogueLike/Lite games then huh?

not sure about how XBOX tagging works, but in STEAM the only tag that show roguelike is in "Popular user-defined tags" which where people/player can add certain tag that might suitable for the game . u can even report if the tag is not suitable anymore .. its not like the game will have this permanent mold that the game should have shape into after receiving certain tags from players. unless the dev literally said so. but im not remember anywhere Klei declared that DST is a roguelike/lite game. unless u mistaking the description on rotwood for DST, where klei clearly said that game is rogue-like.//
 

[mykenception]

anyways, traps idea look fun. It'll make it harder for new players but an extra spice for seasoned players (that'll absolutely not prevent them from doing what they do)

it'll also provide players a new mechanic to exploit

I like it

If only Mike presented the idea this way than making it out of spite against certain playstyles

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Room full of Spike Traps activated on the floor, Enemies immune to taking damage from them so NO you can’t use the traps to your Advantage to kill them,

Vagante has spikes that insta kill you, but they also do on any other mobs except bosses

Caveblazer spikes do heavy damage against anyone though they're not present in boss battles

there are many games out there (not just roguelites) that rewards the player by making the environmental hazards benefit them. 

This seems like you just want a certain feature even if it's against sandbox or creativity. Then again, if it doesn't cater to your playstyle you actively spite on it anyways. What else is new

7 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Yes, DST is only a bit of a roguelite since it doesn't really have anything in common with them other than dying maybe meaning the game starts over. I'd use "Sandbox", "Time management", and "Survival" to describe it waaaaaaaaay before any mention of Rogue. 

the feature "You start over from the beginning if you die" is present in many games now and is usually labeled as "Hardcore" or something similar (e.g. Steel Soul on Hollow Knight)

Yeah I don't think having that feature immediately makes the game a Rogue-like

DST has more emphasis on Survival and Sandbox anyways, and survival tends to be better on Multiplayer

Edited March 11 by mykenception

[Frosty_Mentos]

Detering speedrunning or ruin rushing is a silly idea since it's the exciting part of the earlygame raiding that everyone loves to do, but small updates there and there would be nice. Ruins intentional traps are really weak and easily avoidable, but the biggest traps are things like clockwork piles freeing a hostile clockwork, statues during phase releasing a nightmare as a chance, nightmarephase overall making monkeys, nightlights and whole ruins more hostile.

Since you're playing on the clock and against the seasons too there's that time you got to do everything in the ruins that you can vs the time you get to prepare for the season or incoming attacks.

[GenomeSquirrel]

DST is a weird game, areas like the swamp and ruins fit the feel of a rougelike well, but most of the area is vacant and filled with mostly neutral mobs, which works ok for a rougelike until you know it.

 

As for traps, not against their inclusion, but I worry net code wouldn’t handle what you posted well.

[Hi.]

13 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Roguelikes/Lites seem to have them.

I’m sorry but dst just isn’t a rougelike it’s more of a survival game 

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, Hi. said:

I’m sorry but dst just isn’t a rougelike it’s more of a survival game 

Eh.. even Minecraft has trapped temples.

In A TL:DR it is a in-game activity that gives the player something to do, they can do completely alone without other players. Meanwhile, most of DSTs content in Klei’s own words has been designed around “Group based Activities”  but It’s 2024 now.. and I vote we Aim to Change that.

[Well-met]

id rather klei fixes the web turf edge walking instead.

[HowlVoid]

We should fix the ruins before we add any more to them... I'd definitely like bigger ruins with more loot in them for starters.