Something i will never understand..

[ALCRD]

Tallbirds being considered "innocent" creatures.

They muder their own babies , attack every other passive creature (including players) on sight.

And worst of all if you hatch one , feed them , take care of them they betray you and try to kill you.

 

If they are "innocent" then Charlie is a guardian angel concerned about safety and mental well being of all who enter Constant..

[Gotheran]

Wait, they are considered innocent? I knew like the baby ones did cause ya know, they're defenceless babies so it would naturally incur naughtiness to betray them. Though lets be honest outside of butterflies and bunnies the innocent tag is almost redundant, the whole point was a punishment system to avoid players spending too much time farming rabbits, birds, butterflies and such anything stronger than those is strong enough to fight back and the naughtiness you gain will likely fade before you kill too many more and if you really want to push naughtiness glommer is instant 50 points, and i think i recall there being some other cheesy methods of farming naughtiness to farm krampus in return.

[BalkanCockroach]

10 minutes ago, ALCRD said:

Tallbirds being considered "innocent" creatures.

They muder their own babies , attack every other passive creature (including players) on sight.

And worst of all if you hatch one , feed them , take care of them they betray you and try to kill you.

 

If they are "innocent" then Charlie is a guardian angel concerned about safety and mental well being of all who enter Constant..

If i had an oinc every time a tallbird killed an innocent grass gekko. Then i'd have a centapiece oinc.

[Captain_Rage]

If they are intellectually inept that makes them arguably innocent from a moral standpoint. xd

[ALCRD]

10 minutes ago, Gotheran said:

Wait, they are considered innocent? I knew like the baby ones did cause ya know, they're defenceless babies so it would naturally incur naughtiness to betray them. Though lets be honest outside of butterflies and bunnies the innocent tag is almost redundant, the whole point was a punishment system to avoid players spending too much time farming rabbits, birds, butterflies and such anything stronger than those is strong enough to fight back and the naughtiness you gain will likely fade before you kill too many more and if you really want to push naughtiness glommer is instant 50 points, and i think i recall there being some other cheesy methods of farming naughtiness to farm krampus in return.

Yeah adults are tagged as "Innocent" too apparently and add to naughtiness when you kill them.

[Mike23Ua]

13 minutes ago, ALCRD said:

Yeah adults are tagged as "Innocent" too apparently and add to naughtiness when you kill them.

I figure it’s only because they try to defend their nest/babies.

[ALCRD]

12 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I figure it’s only because they try to defend their nest/babies.

Which they immediately murder them after they hatch

[grm9]

11 hours ago, ALCRD said:

They muder their own babies

because of a code error that they decided to keep

they probably wanted to make it 

, since the current code means "for something to be a valid target, it needs to either not have smallbird tag or have companion tag", but smallbirds have companion tag, so the intended version was probably "for something to be a valid target, it needs it having smallbird tag or companion tag needs to not be true, so it needs to not have smallbird and not have companion tag", since atm that part of the code does nothing

11 hours ago, ALCRD said:

attack every other passive creature (including players) on sight

from their code

11 hours ago, ALCRD said:

And worst of all if you hatch one , feed them , take care of them they betray you and try to kill you

instincts or something, the update that added them mentions them leaving the player instead of attacking them, according to the changelog on the wiki, so the intention was probably to make the player leave them since they're going to make a nest that they need to protect and to make a new tallbird

[arubaro]

Penguls too for some reason

[ALCRD]

41 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Penguls too for some reason

Penguls are at least pretty chill they won't attack anything unless attacked first and actually protect their eggs in non violent way.

Sure they sometimes engage in light "vandalism" but they always gift you steady supply of ice in form of several glaciers always conviniently spawning near your base

[Evelo]

3 hours ago, ALCRD said:

They muder their own babies , attack every other passive creature (including players) on sight.

The amount of animals in nature that eat their own children is well more than I can imagine. So I guess the better question is, what is "innocence" truly?
Not causing harm? Naive? Not corrupt?
Language is a fickle creature.

[Gotheran]

2 hours ago, ALCRD said:

Penguls are at least pretty chill they won't attack anything unless attacked first and actually protect their eggs in non violent way.

Sure they sometimes engage in light "vandalism" but they always gift you steady supply of ice in form of several glaciers always conviniently spawning near your base

I still don't get DST pengulls, I'm assuming its a bug that they forget their eggs at the end of winter or the eggs don't get set to despawn with the nest/gulls or something, i'll be wandering around in spring/summer and just see like 6 or 7 random rotten eggs.

I think the take away here is the birds in the constant are all built different.

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

I mean considering catcoons give 5 naughtiness nothing surprises me anymore. RIP all the rope I left on the ground (and glommer :P).

Anyway, the more creatures that give naughtiness the better, because I can spawn more Krampus.

[Notecja]

5 hours ago, Evelo said:

The amount of animals in nature that eat their own children is well more than I can imagine. So I guess the better question is, what is "innocence" truly?
Not causing harm? Naive? Not corrupt?
Language is a fickle creature.

Fishes somehow aren't innocent. I think they should be. I would say "innocent" things stands for "don't destroy ecosystem". 

[arubaro]

7 hours ago, ALCRD said:

Penguls are at least pretty chill they won't attack anything unless attacked first and actually protect their eggs in non violent way.

Sure they sometimes engage in light "vandalism" but they always gift you steady supply of ice in form of several glaciers always conviniently spawning near your base

They are pretty agressive by the end of winter when they are starving

[cropo]

7 hours ago, ALCRD said:

Penguls are at least pretty chill they won't attack anything unless attacked first and actually protect their eggs in non violent way.

Sure they sometimes engage in light "vandalism" but they always gift you steady supply of ice in form of several glaciers always conviniently spawning near your base

I'm not sure if they do it in DST but in DS they have a hunger value and will attack you near the end of Winter.

[ALCRD]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

They are pretty agressive by the end of winter when they are starving

 

1 hour ago, cropo said:

I'm not sure if they do it in DST but in DS they have a hunger value and will attack you near the end of Winter.

Interesting.

Yea i don't think that feature made it into DST. At least i never encounrered any unprovoked hostility from them in DST.

[Antynomity]

3 hours ago, arubaro said:

They are pretty agressive by the end of winter when they are starving

Yeah I wish that mechanic was less hidden in-game because there's no real way to know when they are starving outside of walking into the crowd and getting pecked.

[-Variant]

6 hours ago, cropo said:

I'm not sure if they do it in DST but in DS they have a hunger value and will attack you near the end of Winter.

Still do. I believe it's tied to temperature, I think? It's tied to something specific that keeps them full during Winter, at least.

They can eat, I've been considering trying to see if I can keep one from starving to death by feeding it for a full season's worth eventually...

[Valase]

13 hours ago, Gotheran said:

I still don't get DST pengulls, I'm assuming its a bug that they forget their eggs at the end of winter or the eggs don't get set to despawn with the nest/gulls or something, i'll be wandering around in spring/summer and just see like 6 or 7 random rotten eggs.

I think the take away here is the birds in the constant are all built different.

Maybe they just leave the ones that didn't hatch behind.

[arubaro]

6 hours ago, ALCRD said:

 

Interesting.

Yea i don't think that feature made it into DST. At least i never encounrered any unprovoked hostility from them in DST.

It did, some friends and i have died a couple of times because i keep forgetting that

[hoxi]

23 hours ago, grm9 said:

because of a code error that they decided to keep

they probably wanted to make it 

, since the current code means "for something to be a valid target, it needs to either not have smallbird tag or have companion tag", but smallbirds have companion tag, so the intended version was probably "for something to be a valid target, it needs it having smallbird tag or companion tag needs to not be true, so it needs to not have smallbird and not have companion tag", since atm that part of the code does nothing

from their code

instincts or something, the update that added them mentions them leaving the player instead of attacking them, according to the changelog on the wiki, so the intention was probably to make the player leave them since they're going to make a nest that they need to protect and to make a new tallbird

I've been meaning to look into this but kept forgetting about it, you should make a bug report about it. Who knows, maybe they'll see it and fix given how simple it is. Would probably wanna avoid saying things like "a code error that they decided to keep" though since it sounds kinda rude.

 

20 hours ago, Gotheran said:

I still don't get DST pengulls, I'm assuming its a bug that they forget their eggs at the end of winter or the eggs don't get set to despawn with the nest/gulls or something, i'll be wandering around in spring/summer and just see like 6 or 7 random rotten eggs.

I think the take away here is the birds in the constant are all built different.

I made a report that got a bit buried by now, it explains why they leave eggs the way they do, among other issues.
TL;DR is that there's conflicting/inconsistent conditions in some checks, some code is a bit outdated, and there's a few errors.

 

Regarding the specific thing you brought up, they're supposed to collect their eggs during dusk when if it's close to be night, or if it's already night (assuming they haven't fallen asleep yet), or it's too cold (-15° or lower, so not around the start or end of winter). And they're supposed to not lay them again if any of these conditions apply, on top of the usual ones (like having no threats nearby).


Oh I forgot to reply to this too.

11 hours ago, Antynomity said:

Yeah I wish that mechanic was less hidden in-game because there's no real way to know when they are starving outside of walking into the crowd and getting pecked.

Yeah no they absolutely can aggro once they're starving, I'm always wary of them because of their numbers and persistence to slide towards their target.

And funnily enough this exists:

local function GetStatus(inst)
    if inst.components.hunger then
        if inst.components.hunger:IsStarving(inst) then
            return "STARVING"
        elseif inst.components.hunger:GetPercent() < .5 then
            return "HUNGRY"
        end
    end
end

But there's no strings referenced for these statuses. It's like they stopped at it or didn't go through with it entirely, because we could totally have unique examination strings to tell when they're starving and hint that they'd be aggressive.

[CaptainChaotica]

Oh god, the poor geckos get bullied all _over_ the place. Not just tallbirds, too.

(A BEE is bullying this poor gecko. A freaking bee. XD)

Anyway, yeah, tallbirds are REALLY family oriented.

beating each other up because they exist nearby...

...leaving their kids randomly in the middle of nowhere...(I didn't hatch this smallbird. I was just walking along and suddenly: random baby bird. In the meadow.)

Not to mention that they care about you stealing their eggs...only for a WHILE, then they give up and go back home. :P

I dunno. I kinda feel like anything that's automatically hostile to every player, shouldn't give you Naughty Points. Yeah they're protecting their baby (are they, though?) but they do this EVEN WHEN THEY HAVE NO EGG. They're just territorial jerks. :P

...Notorious

[ShadowDuelist]

15 hours ago, hoxi said:

I've been meaning to look into this but kept forgetting about it, you should make a bug report about it. Who knows, maybe they'll see it and fix given how simple it is.

Im curious to see how would it be if that bug got fixed, since it never worked right to begin with.

Wouldn’t that cause tallbirds to reproduce and , if left unchecked, populate areas non-stop? 

[hoxi]

12 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Im curious to see how would it be if that bug got fixed, since it never worked right to begin with.

Wouldn’t that cause tallbirds to reproduce and , if left unchecked, populate areas non-stop? 

I'm not sure, there seems to be only a small radius check to make new nests, to avoid them spawning on top of each other, besides other conditions (tile type has to be dirt or rock). Thing is, I'm not sure if Teen Tallbirds would be safe from their parents even if the bug was fixed, so maybe if they're also unloaded for a while to grow into adult ones?
 

On 2/7/2024 at 7:21 PM, grm9 said:

because of a code error that they decided to keep

they probably wanted to make it 

Also I didn't fully go through the code yesterday so I realized just now. This wouldn't fix it, and checking that the target has no "smallbird" tag, or that if they do, they have a "companion" one (which means not hatched from the nest), is correct.

The issue lies in that they're checking the inst local (which is the tallbird), defined in the Retarget local function, and not guy local (which is the potential target), defined in the IsValidTarget local function. That's why the check fails. It's an oversight, and it's kinda easy to miss in that entire block of code.

Edit: I went ahead and made a report of this, including some extra info about Teen Tallbirds potentially being able to starve to death and be targeted by their parents due to losing the "spring bird" (hatched from nest) state, which I'm not sure if it's intended or not.