has the dst community become entitled with content?

[Evelo]

8 hours ago, grm9 said:

that wouldn't change anything because the best option would be to kill them for the loot anyway, regardless of if they came to you or you'll have to come to them, it also wouldn't make sense for FW to rise out of the ground and start fighting you or for CC to land nearby for an unknown reason 

You don't need loot from any boss to survive. It is entirely optional. It would change a lot if bosses were a threat rather than an opt in situation. In fact it would be kind of cool now that I think about it for Fuelweaver to start to punish the player because the player has not stopped Fuelweaver, in a similar way to Antlion.

Currently we can just sit back, kick our feet up and farm and survive until day infinity only having to worry about Deerclops, Bearger, Temperature, Hound Waves, and Antlion since you can farm food and restore sanity with crockpot food using the farmed ingredients. Get some pigs for renewable meat supply to give to pig king for infinite gold, have twigs so you can make axes for fire wood to stoke the fire.

Giving players something threatening that punishes the player for standing around doing nothing is what will lead to the "uncompromising" nature of the game. Say if at the start of every 2 years, Fuelweaver will change the threshold at which players begin to trigger insanity creatures from 15% to 50% and while not in the ruins or atrium, insanity creatures will spawn periodically to attack the player(s) forcing them to go out and find fuelweaver to return to a more peaceful state.

Maybe Alter awakens after year 3 and blankets the whole world, except the caves, ocean, and lunar island, with a moonstorm to force players into defeating the celestial champion. Something to make the world feel more threatening, it isn't about the loot, it is about forcing players to adapt to struggle to return to a calm state.

Granted these brainstorm ideas would require a fundamental change in how FW and CC are summoned but they are just rough ideas to force players into a risky situation. Maybe FW and CC are just present ready for combat after enough time allowing patient or inexperienced players to fight the bosses while knowledgable players can speed up the process faster using the current methods.

Bosses can even stay optional. I rarely ever kill bee queen at this point because it is too much of a hassle and the reward isn't worth it to me. (I don't care about jellybeans, I have honey poultice and batbat) but I feel DST would benefit from forcing danger onto the player. Which is why I love the Brightshades. I think they could be implemented in a different way to make them more threatening, as well as a way to close the rift so players can "beat" them temporarily. Keep Toadstool optional, or give him a gradually expanding toxic aura around the caves that isn't toxic in his combat area to force players to fight him. Doesn't matter really. Hopefully you get where I am coming from with this. Maybe not. idk. Sorry for the rant/wall of text.

[Bird Up]

beequeen is a solo boss designed to be trapped in a firefarm built of caged gobblers and singed with a stack of burning rope.

 

[-Variant]

57 minutes ago, Bird Up said:

beequeen is a solo boss designed to be trapped in a firefarm built of caged gobblers and singed with a stack of burning rope.

I often think about how I see this fan art more often than I do praise for BQ's fight, aha.

[grm9]

8 hours ago, Hi. said:

Have you even fought toadstool? his mush trees are very annoying and the torch takes way to long (by the time the trees burn toadstool will just spawn more trees)

i did, you can chop one tree to put it at 40% damage absorption and the rest will burn down by the time it starts spawning more trees so you can keep repeating this

8 hours ago, Hi. said:

(but I still consider minions a cheese due to the fact pretty much no skill is involved and it involves holding f)

that still requires getting the resources for the minions at least and they're rarely the most efficient way to do something, they're as much cheese as gunpowder, if involving holding F is cheese then fighting every new boss is cheese because of staggers 

8 hours ago, Hi. said:

What I meant was that you could kite and not have to do weird strats. kiting doesn't mean holding f and then walking away for example, when you fight Nightmare Werepig you have to dodge in a certain direction to avoid his attack(also you have to kite slam attack)

if you didn't realise, those were descriptions of daywalker, mutated varg and mutated deerclops, imo all of them are boring because they're too easy and simple, you could have much more fun if you like that sort of stuff by playing a souls game instead of DST, since DST's bosses are inferior in comparison to bosses from those games 

8 hours ago, Hi. said:

Btw im not just talking about BQ and FW im also talking about bosses like CK. BQ uses enemy spam, FW isn't as bad as bq and I do think people over estimate his difficulty but he is annoying, toadstool had 50k+ hp and spawns a stupid amount of mush trees, and CK is a horrible ocean boss due to the fact he heals, has a stupid amount of hp, and spawns claws to kill your boat

so what's the unfair part? There's a ton of ways to deal with BQ's and FW's minions, you can chop the trees or chop one tree and burn the rest, you can interrupt CK's healing, CK only has 23k hp if pearled which is less than most other bosses and they should just reduce the claws' hp to make the fight good      

8 hours ago, Hi. said:

Not most: Wolfgang (tho he has 2x damage), Wilson, Wortox, Walter(he does have his own method but it's slower and worse than pan flutes), Wanda, Warly(Warly also could get 3x damage with enough supplies), Woodie, and etc.

that's most, there are 19 characters, willow, wendy, maxwell, wickerbottom, winona, wormwood, wurt, wigfrid and webber have their own methods so that's 9 and wolfgang, wanda and warly are much better at doing the flute strategy because high damage, 3 more means it's most if you count them in, there's also a way to use moose for the BQ fight with some setup from what i've heard so you could just add him to the rest with own methods and it'll be 10   

8 hours ago, cropo said:

Because the intent was to make it impossible for players to solo him, they weren't anticipating players would literally go farm volt goats for 20 hours, the most annoying mob with the most annoying drop rate for one of the most luxury resources, to make 20 weather pains to solo him. Thankfully glass cutter axes were later introduced so you can spam pan flutes every time he sleeps to just remove this mechanic from the fight

you can still use a ham bat and a torch, no one forced you to farm weather pains, you chose to make it a resource sink to make the fight easier and shorter, you could complain the same way about every boss and say that the only way to kill them is gunpowder even though there are other methods that you decided to not mention and therefore all bosses suck, also, could you not overexaggerate numbers next time and instead tell how much time it took for you to get the materials and how many weather pains you used, or would there be nothing to say because it's only a few weather pains with default damage multiplier and you only spent some time building a volt goat farm for it to passively infinitely generate horns after that?      

7 hours ago, CuteC said:

Klaus can be difficult but he is totally doable and has clear indications of what attacks are being used alongside patterns the player can recognize, his fight is really fun to do despite the fact you don't get anything out of it after a certain point, I think that's the indication you made a good boss

klaus is extremely repetitive, boring and simple, imo he's the most boring ANR boss 

7 hours ago, CuteC said:

bee queen is everything but that, either the fight is the worst thing imaginable or a complete joke, no in between, take 6 mins to kill her or bring a thousand merms

since when is 6 minutes considered too much and there are many methods without minion spam    

[Sanitar]

13 hours ago, MrsBoris said:

thanks to jakepeng reacting to my message i went back to the "what are you expecting this year for dst" forum where i saw a discussion between bosses that follow the same dodge 3 times hit formula and bosses that "think out of the box". and once a guy made a comment saying that bee queen is supposed to be unbeatable solo, i thought yeah, that is by design.... is that a problem?

 

Yes. This is a problem. Most players play dst solo and such bosses only disgust the game.The worst part of the game is bosses like this

 

Uncompromising is not synonymous with high difficulties.Uncompromising are unavoidable mechanics like rains, seasons, hounds, etc. For uncompromising mechanics to be uncompromising, it doesn't have to be complicated.

[Jakepeng99]

14 hours ago, MrsBoris said:

thanks to jakepeng reacting to my message i went back to the "what are you expecting this year for dst" forum where i saw a discussion between bosses that follow the same dodge 3 times hit formula and bosses that "think out of the box". and once a guy made a comment saying that bee queen is supposed to be unbeatable solo, i thought yeah, that is by design.... is that a problem?

now that i think about it, what is the problem with dst having these crazy insurmountable bosses? it is an uncompromising survival game, intransigente! its supposed to be rigid and not make concessions, what if they want to make the final boss a cheating fight? what if bee queen is unkitable and spawn a fuckload of minions, WHAT IF toadstool has 60 thousand health and absolute meme drops? isn't that supposed to be the magic? what if the sea is disgustingly clunky? are THESE porpusefully made design decisions that COMPLEMENT dst's uncompromising survival game magic and we just can't accept them?

maybe just dont starve is an uncompromising experience, maybe that is not what dst is. is dst supposed to be uncompromising like ds? are we entitled or are we doing the right thing?

Your welcome, also alot of these 'uncompromising' fights are unfun solo unless you play a specific character. The devs added so much artificial mechanics to bee queen to make the strategies to fight her very limited and uninteresting. The very specific screech attack she spams messes around with followers, making them lose loyalty points and panic. Players often have to cheese this intended anti-follower mechanic by making bunny hutches around bee queen instead of recruiting them which removes the loyalty issue. They also made bee queen focus on the player in reap what you sow, which further removes strategy from her fight.

She spams bees so much, killing them is a waste of time since they just come back. Most strategies involve just ignoring the bees by using panflutes and running, which takes ages and is very repetitive. It is just a resource dump.

Also, justifying the ocean being clunky by saying it makes the game more uncompromising is odd, given how there are very few threats.

 

 

 

Toadstool is ok but having a chance to not get a glowczp or mushlight rom regular toadstool is pretty dumb,

[Jakepeng99]

19 minutes ago, Sanitar said:

Yes. This is a problem. Most players play dst solo and such bosses only disgust the game.The worst part of the game is bosses like this

 

Uncompromising is not synonymous with high difficulties.Uncompromising are unavoidable mechanics like rains, seasons, hounds, etc. For uncompromising mechanics to be uncompromising, it doesn't have to be complicated.

I do agree they are better in multiplayer, they are fun, though it could be improved for solo, like loyalty followers not being nerfed ahainst bee queen

[chirsg]

Most people here on the forums aren't your average dst player. The average dst player plays the game, up and leaves after they've put in a few dozen hours. 

I can't speak for entitlement, but I think the most ardent posters aren't really playing other games. 

 

The one thing I speak for on behalf of the greater don't starve community is how brightshade infestation has had an extremely negative effect on decorating.

 

Call me entitled for criticizing that. 

 

Anyway, the people who play the game and have their fun do it like once with others and don't pick it up ever again. I'm not sure those players should be catered to. They've experienced dst and had their fun. 

[cropo]

4 hours ago, grm9 said:

you can still use a ham bat and a torch, no one forced you to farm weather pains, you chose to make it a resource sink to make the fight easier and shorter, you could complain the same way about every boss and say that the only way to kill them is gunpowder even though there are other methods that you decided to not mention and therefore all bosses suck, also, could you not overexaggerate numbers next time and instead tell how much time it took for you to get the materials and how many weather pains you used, or would there be nothing to say because it's only a few weather pains with default damage multiplier and you only spent some time building a volt goat farm for it to passively infinitely generate horns after that?   

Toadstool specifically has mechanics to counter getting a bunch of mobs on him with his AOE stomp that he repeats 3 times, he has mechanics specifically made for the Ham Bat making it expire faster, he has mechanics that summon a large amount of trees that buff him to move faster, attack at less delay, take no damage, and can be resummoned before the torch can manage to burn all the previous trees down.

 

Like, I'm not saying there isn't other methods to beat him. No duh there are other methods. What I am saying is that the developers intentionally developed this boss to counter solo play. And that these ''other options'' you are talking about were not anticipated by Klei as a means of soloing him. 

 

What Klei wanted to be a fun party raid boss quickly devolved into a player making 300+ football helmets after methodically grinding all the resources out and distributing them amongst followers, picking Wolfgang(The bosses encouraging his use and making him a meta character), and grinding his head against pavement to inch out a solo victory against him.  They did not expect players would be spending hours dropping a one-man-army's worth of weapons on the ground to pick up in the boss fight, they gave him ridiculous HP and the power to expire hambats so that the average player would go ''Hmm, I can't do this alone, I need help" and get their friends to join in.

 

You can shout at me all you want about how their are ways to solo him, Klei did not INTEND for him to be solod, and did not intend for Bee Queen to be solod either. What followed with the creation of these bosses was Wolfgang becoming encouraged to significantly shorten the tedium of these fights, inspiring everyone to just watch a youtube video to find a cost-effective and cheap strategy to kill them because they're so boring they aren't worth fighting fairly, caused players to learn to break other areas of the game like AFK Volt Goat farming to simply grind resources which negatively impacts the rest of the game unless you just really like grinding for obscure materials.

 

These bosses turned the game into a grinding game, have an extremely negligible impact in inspiring creativity amongst players, and just really aren't that well designed. I'd rather a traditional boss, with a challenging moveset that I can fight naturally any day.  I don't think you guys even really believe these bosses inspire creativity, their erratic attack behaviors and screen spam just have the prestige of making this game feel more difficult and challenging, and that feeling is something you wouldn't sacrifice for the world, no cost is too great to preserve this feeling throughout the game.

[CuteC]

9 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

So then what does BQ reward you with? A crown? An Elitest Status base decoration?

Jelly beans, the second reason to kill bee queen is for royal jelly which makes jelly beans.

5 hours ago, grm9 said:

klaus is extremely repetitive, boring and simple, imo he's the most boring ANR boss 

since when is 6 minutes considered too much and there are many methods without minion spam    

Most bosses up until recently have 1 or at best 2 attacks, Klaus has a variety of attacks and can be difficult but not unfair.

6 minutes is long for a boss fight that's not final.

[BalkanCockroach]

7 hours ago, Evelo said:

In fact it would be kind of cool now that I think about it for Fuelweaver to start to punish the player because the player has not stopped Fuelweaver, in a similar way to Antlion

But fuelweaver doesn't even wanna fight you? unless you wanna open the gateway. 

10 minutes ago, CuteC said:

Jelly beans, the second reason to kill bee queen is for royal jelly which makes jelly beans

Honestly even waiting and farming klaus is better for the jellybeans rn lol. Unless you set up a good consistent cheese for her.

[Uedo]

11 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

It’s easy to survive without the existence of Bee Queen too..

You need bundling wraps? Just play the game ONCE during WintersFeast (the Currently active Holiday event) and learn to craft the much Easier to craft alternate version called Gift Wrap, as long as you’ve learned the crafting Recipe for it- You never EVER need to kill BQ for bundling crafts..

So then what does BQ reward you with? A crown? An Elitest Status base decoration?

Again mike, your subjective experience is not THE opinion to have.

You do it for the crown, not for decoration - the crown is needed for FW...... So i take it you've not done FW either then? >.>

Any other experiences you haven't had that you'd like to comment on?

[Ridley]

2 hours ago, cropo said:

Toadstool specifically has mechanics to counter getting a bunch of mobs on him with his AOE stomp that he repeats 3 times, he has mechanics specifically made for the Ham Bat making it expire faster, he has mechanics that summon a large amount of trees that buff him to move faster, attack at less delay, take no damage, and can be resummoned before the torch can manage to burn all the previous trees down.

I learned that he seems to be the only boss you can't gunpowder to death. I tried to kill Misery Toadstool by slipping him a full stack of gunpowder every 10+ seconds to negate his blast resistance (because I lost any way to make weatherpains). I learned that if Toadstool does anything he will bounce the gunpowder away. Walking, casting spores, summoning mushtrees, spawning boomshrooms, and even falling asleep will bounce the gunpowder out of range.

Gunpowder is such a trap 

[grm9]

1 hour ago, CuteC said:

Most bosses up until recently have 1 or at best 2 attacks, Klaus has a variety of attacks and can be difficult but not unfair

BQ has melee, rage screech, wake up screech, minion summon and the melee attack leaves honey, FW has melee, bone cage, woven shadows summon, unseen hands summon, mind control and falling spikes, dfly has melee, flying melee, lavae summon and enraged stomp, CK has geysers, freeze, claws and healing, that's surely not 2 attacks in all of those cases, counting summoning as an attack is reasonable because after all you'll need to deal with what they've summoned

1 hour ago, CuteC said:

6 minutes is long for a boss fight that's not final

that seems very arbitrary, imo 6 mins is fine even in case of a boss that you can fight anytime

2 hours ago, cropo said:

he has mechanics specifically made for the Ham Bat making it expire faster

drop it on the floor and pick it up

2 hours ago, cropo said:

he has mechanics that summon a large amount of trees that buff him to move faster, attack at less delay, take no damage, and can be resummoned before the torch can manage to burn all the previous trees down

nah there's enough time to burn all the trees before it starts spawning new ones

2 hours ago, cropo said:

Like, I'm not saying there isn't other methods to beat him. No duh there are other methods. What I am saying is that the developers intentionally developed this boss to counter solo play. And that these ''other options'' you are talking about were not anticipated by Klei as a means of soloing him

how does that even matter if they aren't going to patch those methods

2 hours ago, cropo said:

What Klei wanted to be a fun party raid boss quickly devolved into a player making 300+ football helmets

can you not absurdly overexaggerate numbers

2 hours ago, cropo said:

They did not expect players would be spending hours dropping a one-man-army's worth of weapons on the ground to pick up in the boss fight, they gave him ridiculous HP and the power to expire hambats so that the average player would go ''Hmm, I can't do this alone, I need help" and get their friends to join in

drop it on the ground and pick it up 

2 hours ago, cropo said:

You can shout at me all you want about how their are ways to solo him, Klei did not INTEND for him to be solod, and did not intend for Bee Queen to be solod either

how does that matter

2 hours ago, cropo said:

What followed with the creation of these bosses was Wolfgang becoming encouraged to significantly shorten the tedium of these fights, inspiring everyone to just watch a youtube video to find a cost-effective and cheap strategy to kill them because they're so boring they aren't worth fighting fairly, caused players to learn to break other areas of the game like AFK Volt Goat farming to simply grind resources which negatively impacts the rest of the game unless you just really like grinding for obscure materials

i've already named multiple ways to do BQ that aren't boring and don't require you to play as wolfgang and you don't even need volt goat horns for anything, weather pains and morning stars aren't needed for toadstool nor fuelweaver   

2 hours ago, cropo said:

I'd rather a traditional boss, with a challenging moveset that I can fight naturally any day

you're probably not going to get one in this game because so far we've only got 8 sprites for attacks at most even though there are 360 degrees and the game isn't going to turn 3D which also means you can't have attack ducking unless they turn it into an action you can do in a few clicks instead of having to aim the attack and multiplayer means the boss may be targeting someone other than you so their attacks track them and you can't rotate the boss and you might not realise that in time because there's no indication for who the boss is targeting so you might keep getting hit because other people dodge wrong or aim bosses' attacks at your position 

2 hours ago, cropo said:

I don't think you guys even really believe these bosses inspire creativity, their erratic attack behaviors and screen spam just have the prestige of making this game feel more difficult and challenging, and that feeling is something you wouldn't sacrifice for the world, no cost is too great to preserve this feeling throughout the game

no? you're talking about them like there's no counter for their attacks and the things they're summoning 

2 hours ago, cropo said:

These bosses turned the game into a grinding game, have an extremely negligible impact in inspiring creativity amongst players, and just really aren't that well designed

FW's design is better than the design of all bosses that came out after him imo, people are still coming up with strats for ANR bosses from time to time and even if you didn't make a strat on your own, you still need to choose which one to use depending on character, resources available and when do you need that boss' drops, unlike being able to just get a ham bat and a football helm if you're clunky and kill any of the new bosses easily 

[Ridley]

20 minutes ago, Uedo said:

Again mike, your subjective experience is not THE opinion to have.

You do it for the crown, not for decoration - the crown is needed for FW...... So i take it you've not done FW either then? >.>

Any other experiences you haven't had that you'd like to comment on?

I have incidentally discovered sanity is not needed for the FW fight if you have the BrightShade Staff and repair kits...

[Uedo]

13 minutes ago, Ridley said:

I have incidentally discovered sanity is not needed for the FW fight if you have the BrightShade Staff and repair kits...

I assure you, he ain't doing that.

[Yuuko]

I think the forumites can *seem* entitled because many of their ideas and opinions have been curated and refined over a lengthy life in DST.  There are a lot of people with thousands of hours of game play who have played all DS/T versions at many different patch points who know what they have liked and disliked as its been added to the game.  When these people talk about what they want and don't want, they have a LOT of baggage building up these reasons why.  I don't think they actually are entitled though, as many of these people have played through content releases they both liked and didn't and are still here.

19 hours ago, Evelo said:

Bosses don't make the game uncompromising.

I think there is room to say "this is uncompromising" as it relates to a boss.

AFW and CK can both heal up a LOT faster than 1 player can damage them, effectively resetting their fights and saying "If you cannot overcome this mechanic you cannot win."  BQ does something similar by nearly instantly spitting out a fresh swarm of grumbles.  I think its okay to have bosses give us these types of challenges provided they aren't all using the same hooks.  I want my fights to be varied.  Being forced to deal with a healing boss would be more lame if they were all dealt with the same, like if we had a poison weapon that put an anti-healing effect on a boss...  But because we deal with them in different ways I think its fine.  AFW is about kiting, clearing wovens, and timing when each spell ends.  CK is about getting rapid hits to face while other things are happening.  Especially with pearl's pearl where 1 character swinging might not be enough to break it.  NMWP is designed to be an easier early game / solo fight, so breaking his healing is mostly just staying engaged with him BUT if you're constantly peeling off to handle shadow creatures or trying to heal up the fight can easily reset on you.

They each use the healing mechanic in different ways to make the fight potentially unbeatable if you cannot muster the efforts.  I think as long as we are doing different things for different bosses, we're good.  Especially since this game is not a grinding game where you have low loot drop chances.  If you defeat Bee Queen once you have bundle wrap.  Each player only needs it once.

I don't think making things uncomp is always a good thing.  There needs to be a certain amount of pressure in the game, but we need moments of reprieve too.  DST is not DS where you play until you die, then start a new world.  This is multiplayer, pick up and drop game play.  We have TONS of revive options, including endless mode.  I think DST is quite purposefully trying to be a game where you can play thousands of days no matter what your skill level is, and as such simply cannot keep the pressure up constantly.  There need to be moments where the pressure subsides.  For games like souls-likes, difficult platformers like celeste, etc the down time is between levels, but there is no "between levels" here.  DST cannot constantly keep the pressure up - it would be bad for the game.

3 hours ago, cropo said:

These bosses turned the game into a grinding game, have an extremely negligible impact in inspiring creativity amongst players, and just really aren't that well designed. I'd rather a traditional boss, with a challenging moveset that I can fight naturally any day.  I don't think you guys even really believe these bosses inspire creativity, their erratic attack behaviors and screen spam just have the prestige of making this game feel more difficult and challenging, and that feeling is something you wouldn't sacrifice for the world, no cost is too great to preserve this feeling throughout the game.

Eh, DST is not a boss fight simulator like CotL.  I think it makes perfect sense to have encounters that are NOT just straight forward fights and do require things besides a weapon and armor.  There is plenty of room for variety, and especially with the introduction of the zombosses which do a lot to prevent indirect combat methods I don't feel there is room to complain about the bosses that aren't a simple fight.

[MrsBoris]

9 hours ago, Sanitar said:

it doesn't have to be complicated.

sorry for complicating it i am just trying to learn

[Mike23Ua]

4 hours ago, Uedo said:

Again mike, your subjective experience is not THE opinion to have.

You do it for the crown, not for decoration - the crown is needed for FW...... So i take it you've not done FW either then? >.>

Any other experiences you haven't had that you'd like to comment on?

You mean have I ever played in a full lobby of 6 players and then just beat something to death with a Hambat? Uhm well uhh, no.

And there’s literally nothing you can ever say about DST bosses being fair for solo players that will EVER make me feel any differently about their existence.

As long as their Health does not scale Upwards based on how many people are attacking them- They’ll always be too Grindy for Solo, and Too Easy for a full group of Six.

In fact I HAVE killed BQ several times in a smaller group before, it’s relatively easy to just stand on the sidelines watching as Wanda and rewinding even the most noob of two wilson players deaths for them.

You act as if I need to accomplish fighting bosses ALONE to have any opinion over them, and I’ve got news for you… None of them were ever designed with the intention you’d be fighting them Alone.

In fact: Almost all the mobs in DST have significantly more Health than their DS Counterparts because Klei intended for you to play with other players.

One only needs to look at the Health of Deerclops, Bearger & Dragonfly in DS vs their DST counterparts to understand that.

However, DS, SW & Hamlets core gameplay was never about bosses- Yes it had them, but they weren’t anywhere near as intrusive or demanding of gameplay as DSTs are.

In fact- people seem to forget that there’s a world Gen Preset for DST titled “No Giants Here”

So how about you tell me what the “Goal” of that playstyle is, if there’s no Bee Queen?

[_zwb]

If only the confused reaction is still here...

[NoodlemanNed]

the only entitlement ive seen is when people think klei should make the game harder because its too easy for them. I still see people do struggle to survive in the current state of dst despite how much people whine about powercreep and everything being overpowered. You might have an easy time with dst but that does not mean the game is easy for everyone else.

The way i see it, optional content like bee queen is a method to allow more experienced players to have a challenge that works for them, without making the game unplayable for someone who wants to just live without needing to spend 6 hours on the wiki reading up on all the different enemies that will attack them out of nowhere.

[Mike23Ua]

40 minutes ago, NoodlemanNed said:

the only entitlement ive seen is when people think klei should make the game harder because its too easy for them. I still see people do struggle to survive in the current state of dst despite how much people whine about powercreep and everything being overpowered. You might have an easy time with dst but that does not mean the game is easy for everyone else.

The way i see it, optional content like bee queen is a method to allow more experienced players to have a challenge that works for them, without making the game unplayable for someone who wants to just live without needing to spend 6 hours on the wiki reading up on all the different enemies that will attack them out of nowhere.

But boss fights are the absolute 125% WRONG way of going about doing that..

A newer player is highly unlikely to just stumble upon The Archives or Lunar Island, yet those areas exist for people who can live long enough to reach them. 
DS Adventures Mode, the Shipwrecked DLC, Hamlet DLC were all structured in a way that if you could live long enough to reach it- It showed you No Mercy..

The same way Klei added Lunacy to its own exclusive Island, they could add other islands out across the sea that have their own mobs and weather hazards.

One of my favorite updates since the start of Return of Them was the first RoT update that added the Lunar Island.

If Klei wanted my personal opinion on how to handle the game for newbies vs experienced players- They should make the game like the story mode chapter “Two Worlds”

Allow one area to be the beginning island that players start out on, this is the newbie zone where they get a fill for the game without additional hazards spawning to cause them further hindrance.

However- there is a catch, Just like Two Worlds there is a One Way only Wormhole Portal that once you jump through and LEAVE the Beginning area, you reach a point of no return & the game doesn’t hold back on you anymore.

This whole “But it’s already hard on new players” mindset is EXACTLY what’s holding DST back….

Klei gave you the Middle finger when it came to Solo DS, Shipwrecked & Hamlet, Those updates just did not care how hard previous areas of the game were.

Once upon a time ago there was a Dont starve that didn’t even have plugged sinkholes OR a Winter Weather Season- and even though people already struggled with learning the game- that did not STOP Klei from adding those more difficult things 

[prettynuggets]

18 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Klei gave you the Middle finger when it came to Solo DS, Shipwrecked & Hamlet, Those updates just did not care how hard previous areas of the game were.

in multiplayer there is something needs to rebalance those unfairness.
because noone will play co-op game that giving a harsh punishment for the entire group just because one of them making a hiccups.

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

And there’s literally nothing you can ever say about DST bosses being fair for solo players that will EVER make me feel any differently about their existence.

there is totally bosses easier doing solo than together from my view.
klaus is the best example. over crowding only make u get head butt from the deer. instead of perfect kiting like u predicted. and the spell become more annoying since if one player fail to dodge the deer skill far enough from klaus u need to wait for the area walkable again 
i can kite all Celestial champion attack solo than with crowd of people.
afw, nightmare warepig, even deerclops and newer mutated mobs, i think its better done solo than with multiple people.

even tho i listed many mobs that can be done solo easier than together but, yeah.. those chaos fight from playing with multiple people is more fun, even tho u wouldnt able to do no damage fight which make the fight lower cost, i cant deny that doing fight with lot of chaos-ness from other player is waaay more exciting. 

[CuteC]

16 hours ago, BalkanCockroach said:

onestly even waiting and farming klaus is better for the jellybeans rn lol. Unless you set up a good consistent cheese for her.

Yeah we got a Wurt player in the world, she makes a lot of tedious tasks a lot easier.

14 hours ago, grm9 said:

BQ has melee, rage screech, wake up screech, minion summon and the melee attack leaves honey, FW has melee, bone cage, woven shadows summon, unseen hands summon, mind control and falling spikes, dfly has melee, flying melee, lavae summon and enraged stomp, CK has geysers, freeze, claws and healing, that's surely not 2 attacks in all of those cases, counting summoning as an attack is reasonable because after all you'll need to deal with what they've summoned

I said most not all, and I am not sure what point you're trying to make when all I said was that Klaus is difficult but not unfair.

[Yuuko]

16 hours ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Honestly even waiting and farming klaus is better for the jellybeans rn lol. Unless you set up a good consistent cheese for her.

I mean, if you're on repeat farms of BQ imo its only natural to build up some way to ease the process.  Spamming pan flutes and face tanking her is like first autumn stuff.  When it comes time to fight her the second time I'd be setting up something to make farming her easier.