has the dst community become entitled with content?

[fishofwar]

17 hours ago, Uedo said:

 the crown is needed for FW......

It absolutely isn't.

[Kevinnator]

23 hours ago, chirsg said:

Most people here on the forums aren't your average dst player. The average dst player plays the game, up and leaves after they've put in a few dozen hours. 

I can't speak for entitlement, but I think the most ardent posters aren't really playing other games. 

 

Anyway, the people who play the game and have their fun do it like once with others and don't pick it up ever again. I'm not sure those players should be catered to. They've experienced dst and had their fun. 

True, I've only recently dabled into the Klei forums and anytime I've said something good about Planar and the new content, the argument against me can basically be boiled down by "Uhm actually it's bad and my opinion is correct because I can no-hit all the bosses". All of my opinions come from a group of friends that play this game like once or twice a year and we've only started in 2022. Most things I see heavily complained about we just like or even aren't bothered by for the most part (yes, that includes the monkey raids and brightshades. As a hivemind of idiots, we eventually figure out our own solutions to these problems which is why these barely bothered us).

I'd argue the majority of players are like this, people who casually play this game and I think Klei is catering to them. A lot of annoying things that have been added with the rifts and Moon Quay have just had the reaction of "Lol, typical DST harshness. We'll conquer these new threats!" with my friend group. We're all looking forward to the new rift bosses and threats when we do another playthrough later this year, and likely die 20 times to them.

11 hours ago, NoodlemanNed said:

the only entitlement ive seen is when people think klei should make the game harder because its too easy for them. I still see people do struggle to survive in the current state of dst despite how much people whine about powercreep and everything being overpowered. You might have an easy time with dst but that does not mean the game is easy for everyone else.

Yeah, my friends still struggle with sanity creatures. A character having a sanity or health downside may not be considered a downside by anyone here but it's a big downside for my friends. I see Maxwell and Wanda being considered OP and I get that their upsides are strong, I even played as Wanda. But don't forget that there is a skill ceiling on them that may not apply to people with 1000+ hours of playtime but does on people with only 50-200 hours or less experience. A friend played Maxwell and they switched characters 'cus they struggled with his low max health. Beefalo exist, I know. I'm the only one who really tames and uses them, my friends don't.

[user1464576869]

I don't think it's fair to call anyone entitled. People are just passionate and saying otherwise is dismissive.

I liked DS quite a bit, and it some ways it never changed, but small details and polish has overlapped the broad strokes to a point of major change. It's good and bad, on both end on spectrums on uncompromising and base builder I see a perfectly fine game, but it really seems like they're exclusive versions of each other. And that we ended up in a compromised identity crisis of a middle ground. It's not easy to do anything about it since major changes now means the literal death of the game as we know it. Tangent, but I also have to wonder if Klei even sees what we mean.

I don't play DST any more. At all. Make of it what you will. That the feedback isn't important - or that it's more important than ever to understand what engagement the game is loosing out on.

But it's hard to motivate my friends for another go at it. I think the game has issues with things being able to come out of nowhere too quickly. Can't really chill out if every second is to be vigilant, and there are no natural moments for an "out" to take a break if we were to treat it like a typical game of focused trials. If the game wanted to be uncompromising I'd prefer something like storymode, were between hectic chapters we could take a break and feel like we're making progress. If the game wanted to slow down and allowed players to pick their own pace by traversing out into dangerous fields I'd have no qualms about it... I think.

[Uedo]

14 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

You mean have I ever played in a full lobby of 6 players and then just beat something to death with a Hambat? Uhm well uhh, no.

And there’s literally nothing you can ever say about DST bosses being fair for solo players that will EVER make me feel any differently about their existence.

As long as their Health does not scale Upwards based on how many people are attacking them- They’ll always be too Grindy for Solo, and Too Easy for a full group of Six.

In fact I HAVE killed BQ several times in a smaller group before, it’s relatively easy to just stand on the sidelines watching as Wanda and rewinding even the most noob of two wilson players deaths for them.

You act as if I need to accomplish fighting bosses ALONE to have any opinion over them, and I’ve got news for you… None of them were ever designed with the intention you’d be fighting them Alone.

In fact: Almost all the mobs in DST have significantly more Health than their DS Counterparts because Klei intended for you to play with other players.

One only needs to look at the Health of Deerclops, Bearger & Dragonfly in DS vs their DST counterparts to understand that.

However, DS, SW & Hamlets core gameplay was never about bosses- Yes it had them, but they weren’t anywhere near as intrusive or demanding of gameplay as DSTs are.

In fact- people seem to forget that there’s a world Gen Preset for DST titled “No Giants Here”

So how about you tell me what the “Goal” of that playstyle is, if there’s no Bee Queen?

I mean, i mentioned fuelweaver. Want to tell me about anything else unrelated?

Iz b kween a gi-unt thoooo?

2 hours ago, fishofwar said:

It absolutely isn't.

I'm used to the forums not fully understanding nuance - do you think that maybe mentioning a boss that the item is mainly used for could be an nod toward the fact that the item has use and isn't a decoration, as mike stated. Come on guys, use your noggin. I use it each time, it's an item that lets me do it extremely quickly with minimal issue and avoids the stuff i find irritating, so yeah - absolutely is in my case.

 

1 hour ago, user1464576869 said:

I don't think it's fair to call anyone entitled. People are just passionate and saying otherwise is dismissive.

It really is, a lot of the comments relate to the ethos of the company or allude to the fact that the dev team don't know what they want/how to do stuff. I'd imagine it'd be really demoralising when you put your efforts into your work and then get comments that you've almost done something wrong and 'ruined' something that someone enjoys. Like they've done something bad. It's fine to dismiss people who fail to put their money where their mouth is - You feel you can do better, make a mod, show us. Better yet, you feel the game has stepped away from what you expected it to develop into, sure, i get it, there have been a lot of games where the focus has been 'what's profitable/creates an addictive loop/follows trends' and haven't cared about player experience or consistency with the genre/theme/lore/mechanics - I don't think Klei do that. So yeah, if you have an idea for a game maybe try up-skilling yourself and make one, and not make 12k posts demanding someone else do it :3

[Retepeter]

On 1/4/2024 at 8:28 PM, MrsBoris said:

uncompromising

i mean if this is what you want your game to be then sure go ahead i think 95% of players would rather have a fun game

[user1464576869]

1 hour ago, Uedo said:

It really is, a lot of the comments relate to the ethos of the company or allude to the fact that the dev team don't know what they want/how to do stuff. I'd imagine it'd be really demoralising when you put your efforts into your work and then get comments that you've almost done something wrong and 'ruined' something that someone enjoys. Like they've done something bad. It's fine to dismiss people who fail to put their money where their mouth is - You feel you can do better, make a mod, show us. Better yet, you feel the game has stepped away from what you expected it to develop into, sure, i get it, there have been a lot of games where the focus has been 'what's profitable/creates an addictive loop/follows trends' and haven't cared about player experience or consistency with the genre/theme/lore/mechanics - I don't think Klei do that. So yeah, if you have an idea for a game maybe try up-skilling yourself and make one, and not make 12k posts demanding someone else do it :3

Still not entitlement, that's being brazen?

Sometimes the reality of the matter just is that your work be it hard or not has been withering away at something with it's own potential. I don't see why it should be controversial to want to talk a person out of drawing moustaches on the mona lisa. Yes it's new, a different audience, different piece, new interpretations, but the original suffers. Saying this is entitlement sounds to me like calling a grandma entitled for wanting their grandson to stop doing crack. Or at the very least ask them to stop drawing pictures over old family photos with a permanent marker.

I don't know if you're talking in general terms or making claims against me but I'm not speaking in terms of just keeping as many people addicted as possible for profit, if anything that's what I think the game has attempted to turn into in their aimless goal for general attention over creating a game. When I talk about garnering engagement I mean to keep true to some sort of vision that people have a natural interest in. Of course you're free to do whatever you want, that's the ideal for games I always say; do your vision, find your audience in that. But- I don't think... That there is much of a vision...? Is my point. Everything in the game is so muddled compared to how elegantly it started.

Also ad hominem, do I really need to be a chef to understand how bad it is that a steak is burnt.

[Uedo]

2 hours ago, user1464576869 said:

Still not entitlement, that's being brazen?

Sometimes the reality of the matter just is that your work be it hard or not has been withering away at something with it's own potential. I don't see why it should be controversial to want to talk a person out of drawing moustaches on the mona lisa. Yes it's new, a different audience, different piece, new interpretations, but the original suffers. Saying this is entitlement sounds to me like calling a grandma entitled for wanting their grandson to stop doing crack. Or at the very least ask them to stop drawing pictures over old family photos with a permanent marker.

I don't know if you're talking in general terms or making claims against me but I'm not speaking in terms of just keeping as many people addicted as possible for profit, if anything that's what I think the game has attempted to turn into in their aimless goal for general attention over creating a game. When I talk about garnering engagement I mean to keep true to some sort of vision that people have a natural interest in. Of course you're free to do whatever you want, that's the ideal for games I always say; do your vision, find your audience in that. But- I don't think... That there is much of a vision...? Is my point. Everything in the game is so muddled compared to how elegantly it started.

Also ad hominem, do I really need to be a chef to understand how bad it is that a steak is burnt.

Oh sorry, just general terms - not you 

[chincer]

my only opinion about bosses as someone that absolutely suck at killing them at all is.

there should be a cheese strategy for them, but it should never be the most efficient one, it should just be the "i hate to fight this thing so i rather prepare this complicated trap"
the mechanics of the bosses have become a bit stale, specially now that character are starting to get this complex "spells" in their skill trees, like widfrig dash, fire spells, sleep zones wormwood, triple hit combos and such, i would honestly like more bosses to have predictable but deadly zone attacks, with reasonable dodge chances, this is better for new players of course.

some bosses i think are fun to fight like ancient guardian and deerclops and even celestial guardian to an extend, others are clearly "ugh" like crab king.

 

[00petar00]

7 hours ago, Kevinnator said:

True, I've only recently dabled into the Klei forums and anytime I've said something good about Planar and the new content, the argument against me can basically be boiled down by "Uhm actually it's bad and my opinion is correct because I can no-hit all the bosses". All of my opinions come from a group of friends that play this game like once or twice a year and we've only started in 2022. Most things I see heavily complained about we just like or even aren't bothered by for the most part (yes, that includes the monkey raids and brightshades. As a hivemind of idiots, we eventually figure out our own solutions to these problems which is why these barely bothered us).

I'd argue the majority of players are like this, people who casually play this game and I think Klei is catering to them. A lot of annoying things that have been added with the rifts and Moon Quay have just had the reaction of "Lol, typical DST harshness. We'll conquer these new threats!" with my friend group. We're all looking forward to the new rift bosses and threats when we do another playthrough later this year, and likely die 20 times to them.

You are actually helping the argument that rifts are "bad", I wouldn't even go that far but parts of the content from them mostly brightshades are quite bad.

If you play the game twice a year you don't interact with the mechanics that much so that means you won't get tired of it, now if someone puts in over 1000 hours that year into the game and like 700 of those hours are with rifts turned on, they will get very annoyed by the endless waves of brightshades especially if they don't use dragon fruit lava pond setup that wasn't intended by the devs.

Moon Quay/Pirate raids are basically punishment either way you go about it. You either let monkeys rob you, bribe them with bananas or you kill them and also get punished. The fight itself isn't very fun because a player can be stun locked and overwhelmed by their numbers.

[Theukon-dos]

As others have said, Uncompromising =/= Unfair, and I don't think there's really anything I can add to that conversation.

 

However, I really have to ask. How exactly is it being "entitled" to be upset by new content?

 

Klei isn't updating Don't Starve Together out of the goodness of their heart. DST; like it or not; is a Live Service Game. A Pact written in blood and money (ok mostly just money) that says Klei will keep updating the game, and in exchange we'll keep giving them money for it in the form of Microtransactions. So if Klei starts updating the game in a way that players disagree with, then it's reasonable for them to be upset sense it's turning the game into something they don't want to spend time or money on.

 

Now, I don't consider myself a "veteran" player. I only caught onto the franchise a bit before A New Reign started, and I don't even think I'm particularly good at the game. But I bought into it because it filled a niche I wanted; that being a tough-as-nails survival game that wouldn't hold my hand. So I feel absolutely no shame in being vocal about how Klei's been pulling the game out of that niche for the sake carving it into something else for the sake of an entirely different audience that wouldn't touch it otherwise.

 

[Popian]

9 hours ago, user1464576869 said:

People are just passionate and saying otherwise is dismissive.

And whether or not that passion is genuine, this gives a blanket for people (intentionally) crossing the line to hide under. It's also dismissive to not take things case by case, but that's a lot of work so it's best we acknowledge that some statements are made targeting specific groups.

[mykenception]

On 1/5/2024 at 5:38 AM, Mike23Ua said:

As much as I hate the existence of DS:NewHome- look at all the crazy content and passion that’s being driven towards it!! So many cute, cool, creepy mobs and biomes and new gameplay ideas..

Wait, Newhome still exists? I thought that one died off during it's conception

[Mike23Ua]

Your not allowed to target specific groups, your also not allowed to single out specific forum members, it’s literally part of the forum ToS, And a thread that asks if people if they feel entitled about content updates shouldn’t go on and on for pages on end about Boss Fights.

For ONE the Dont Starve Franchise was NEVER About Boss Fights- In Fact you can Complete the entire Campaign of the Original game without ever encountering your first boss.

You wanna know WHY??? Because up until RoG- Well no actually, DST… Boss Fights werent the most popular part of the Game, Sure- Shipwrecked & Hamlet had 3 or 4 of them, but Bosses weren’t THE ENTIRE EXPERIENCE 

And that’s more than I can say for DST that with each new “Boss” I start to hate a little bit more.

You want to know WHY though?

Because I bought DS, Shipwrecked, & Also Hamlet and never not one time did I absolutely NEED to Interact with a boss to enjoy the game or be challenged by its contents.

I can’t say the same about DST… DST actually locks the type of content I enjoy, behind the bosses that Kill that Joy.

Now as for the actual original Topic of players feeling Entitled when it comes to content updates-

I think since I’ve played DS & it’s two DLCs as well as also DST- That I should have a pretty rough idea of what people who actually Started with the franchise in its very beginning- Expect out of said Franchise…

And that all voices that have hopped aboard the train only once DST and it’s boss filled fiasco started- Shouldn’t be the voices that steer the direction of further development.

And no it’s not because I don’t believe that  people shouldn’t be allowed to express what they’d like to see in the game they enjoy-

But rather it’s because I lived through this same scenario ONCE already with the Resident Evil Franchise-

A franchise that for the most part was largely about limited inventory management, survival horror, and clever puzzle solving, eventually changed so damn much that it was unrecognizable to original fans, and become more of an Action Shooter with Quick Time Events-

But those developers learned a valuable lesson at some point- And that was that RE fans liked RE for Being RE… and not whatever the heck they were trying to turn it into just to cater towards whatever was most popular at the time..

Thats why instead of seeing more Action Shooter QTE trash- We instead got a true return to the series roots with remakes of the original games that have proven largely successful.

And when it comes to DST- It’s following down that same path.. but I shouldn’t need to point that out.

Klei themselves should be able to SEE that when fans of the original game (DS & it’s two DLCs) continue to become increasingly disappointed with the development of DST (to the point some of them threaten to, or actually do quit the game.)

Now I’ll end this post by giving EVERYONE something to sit and ponder about, DST is the current game Klei is doing content updates for- That may be true.. yes, BUT…. “What If” They released a Dont Starve 2???

And what if this Don’t Starve 2 played more like the ORIGINAL Game and it’s two DLCs??

Would DST fans have any rights whatsoever to “Demand” that a game (DS2) following in the footsteps of DS/SW/Ham get content updates and changes to gameplay to play more like DST?

Aka- Less harsh seasons, A craftable solution to every problem, meaningless or NO Character Downsides, FILL THE WORLD WITH BOSSES MUWHAHAHA!

Would those fans be in the right??? OR more likely- Would those voices be exactly the ones Klei SHOULDNT be listening to if they’re trying to make a DS2 that caters to fans of DS/SW/Hamlet.

I find it ironic that Klei opted to make content updates for DST free because they didn’t want to separate their fanbase, yet when it comes to DS & DST- they’ve done exactly that.

Just Food for Thought… Now think about that!  

[Uedo]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

But rather it’s because I lived through this same scenario ONCE already with the Resident Evil Franchise-

Therefore; Every instance will have the same result.

[_zwb]

17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Because I bought DS, Shipwrecked, & Also Hamlet and never not one time did I absolutely NEED to Interact with a boss to enjoy the game or be challenged by its contents.

I can’t say the same about DST… DST actually locks the type of content I enjoy, behind the bosses that Kill that Joy.

It's not though? The only content locked behind bosses is rift content, which can be enabled through world settings. Everything else locked behind bosses is something like a piece of armour or a weapon side grade, not required to enjoy the game.

[mykenception]

17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Because I bought DS, Shipwrecked, & Also Hamlet and never not one time did I absolutely NEED to Interact with a boss to enjoy the game or be challenged by its contents.

I can’t say the same about DST… DST actually locks the type of content I enjoy, behind the bosses that Kill that Joy.

I BELIEVE that DST isn't just for YOUR playstyle. Boss have been FULLY incorporated as a way to provide a challenge in a multiplayer setting WHILE not being intrusive in a group

Thats ALSO why there's loads of fans for DS and why there are stark differences between DST and DS, NOT just DS but multiplayer

I understand that you're bored, because you REFUSE to engage a content that's easier with friends, which are usually around boss fights. And since boss have ALL the good loot, you don't have much else to do on a world if you just survive without interacting with the raid boss after all these years.

25 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Would those fans be in the right??? OR more likely- Would those voices be exactly the ones Klei SHOULDNT be listening to if they’re trying to make a DS2 that caters to fans of DS/SW/Hamlet.

You're asking Klei to abandon DST again and want to focus on a new game. Wouldn't it be better if you contemplate and wait for this new theoretical DS game that PERFECTLY caters to all your desires of the game, fully integrating everything you wanted from OTHER GAMES OF DIFFERENT GENRE, rather than to keep stepping on a game you obviously don't enjoy.  

Oh, don't forget the Fortnite crossover, DS2 x Fortnite is a no brainer afterall

[Mike23Ua]

13 minutes ago, mykenception said:

I BELIEVE that DST isn't just for YOUR playstyle. Boss have been FULLY incorporated as a way to provide a challenge in a multiplayer setting WHILE not being intrusive in a group

Thats ALSO why there's loads of fans for DS and why there are stark differences between DST and DS, NOT just DS but multiplayer

I understand that you're bored, because you REFUSE to engage a content that's easier with friends, which are usually around boss fights. And since boss have ALL the good loot, you don't have much else to do on a world if you just survive without interacting with the raid boss after all these years.

You're asking Klei to abandon DST again and want to focus on a new game. Wouldn't it be better if you contemplate and wait for this new theoretical DS game that PERFECTLY caters to all your desires of the game, fully integrating everything you wanted from OTHER GAMES OF DIFFERENT GENRE, rather than to keep stepping on a game you obviously don't enjoy.  

Oh, don't forget the Fortnite crossover, DS2 x Fortnite is a no brainer afterall

There are better ways to handle it, then just a bunch of optional bosses or puzzles that can trigger world changes.

The current way the game is built- Players who CAN fight bosses can rush new consequences into the world on players who aren’t prepared for them.. for example:

Experienced players can rush Moon Storms, the Shadow/Gashalt War, And even Wild Rifts onto Inexperienced players.. 

My take is that Klei should’ve designed content differently…

For example- Imagine if somewhere out across the sea there was a biome that was constantly on fire and extremely hot, something like Shipwrecked Volcano I guess.. But let’s just call this the Magma Biome, New players who attempt to travel to this location will have like a character quote “I’m not crazy enough to explore an Island that’s On Fire, I’ll come back once I have better gear…”

This would allow players who are experienced at the game to do something like go fight Dragonfly and obtain scale mail armors, And players who CANT fight Dragonfly won’t even be able to step onto the island at all.

Which makes a hell of a lot more sense to me then allowing players who KNOW what they’re doing to be able to force content onto players who still don’t know what they’re doing.

Because as the game sets right now, my friends don’t join my worlds because there’s too much going on for them to understand (I’ve activated the Gashalt/Shadow War, Turned Lunar/ Shadow Rifts on) 

or in some cases- Maybe I’m just in Spring and they don’t understand the concept of needing more than an Umbrella to stay dry.

Anyways- My point is that there are better ways to add new content for experienced players, that don’t hinder the under experienced in such an intrusive manor as the games current content updates do.

I could do some brainstorming and come up with some pretty crazy stuff such as a dangerous area out at sea patrolled by Pirate Monkeys that require you to become Wonkey to safely travel through- but that’s just bottom of the barrel thinking.

 

[Snapchrap]

48 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

There are better ways to handle it, then just a bunch of optional bosses or puzzles that can trigger world changes.

The current way the game is built- Players who CAN fight bosses can rush new consequences into the world on players who aren’t prepared for them.. for example:

Experienced players can rush Moon Storms, the Shadow/Gashalt War, And even Wild Rifts onto Inexperienced players.. 

My take is that Klei should’ve designed content differently…

For example- Imagine if somewhere out across the sea there was a biome that was constantly on fire and extremely hot, something like Shipwrecked Volcano I guess.. But let’s just call this the Magma Biome, New players who attempt to travel to this location will have like a character quote “I’m not crazy enough to explore an Island that’s On Fire, I’ll come back once I have better gear…”

This would allow players who are experienced at the game to do something like go fight Dragonfly and obtain scale mail armors, And players who CANT fight Dragonfly won’t even be able to step onto the island at all.

Which makes a hell of a lot more sense to me then allowing players who KNOW what they’re doing to be able to force content onto players who still don’t know what they’re doing.

Because as the game sets right now, my friends don’t join my worlds because there’s too much going on for them to understand (I’ve activated the Gashalt/Shadow War, Turned Lunar/ Shadow Rifts on) 

or in some cases- Maybe I’m just in Spring and they don’t understand the concept of needing more than an Umbrella to stay dry.

Anyways- My point is that there are better ways to add new content for experienced players, that don’t hinder the under experienced in such an intrusive manor as the games current content updates do.

I could do some brainstorming and come up with some pretty crazy stuff such as a dangerous area out at sea patrolled by Pirate Monkeys that require you to become Wonkey to safely travel through- but that’s just bottom of the barrel thinking.

 

"Uncomprimising wilderness survival game"

[Auth]

9 hours ago, Retepeter said:

i think 95% of players would rather have a fun game

 Asking for an uncompromising experience does not mean "Make the game less fun, only add punishments!". If you want an example of what I mean, read my whole post in this thread, but here's just an immediate excerpt:

On 1/4/2024 at 3:20 PM, Auth said:

Asking for the game to add more "uncompromising content" shouldn't, and at least for people like me, doesn't translate to "Just make it harder" or "Stop making things easier", it means to keep adding content that's in-line with how older content was added.

It is possible to balance this kind of content to meet the difficulty with adequate reward. That is how you make difficult content engaging, you just need to make it worthwhile. It's possible to criticize the modern implementation of harder mechanics for not meeting this criterion, but to dismiss the idea entirely because of poor implementation or a lack of understanding isn't a good way to look at it, and will serve only to alienate those who do want more content designed to challenge them.

[Popian]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Your not allowed to target specific groups, your also not allowed to single out specific forum members, it’s literally part of the forum ToS,

You are allowed to target (not in the sense of "making into a target") groups in a statement (e.g. the new players I'm playing with keep dying all the time) and you are allowed to respond to what others are saying, the key is to not bear ill will towards them and attempt to/convince others to "disrupt" them according to the forum guidelines.

[Spino43]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Experienced players can rush Moon Storms, the Shadow/Gashalt War, And even Wild Rifts onto Inexperienced players.. 

Have this happened or you are just speculating it might happen? Most public servers rarely if not never reach moonstorms/wild rifts due to the nature of public servers.

[Kevinnator]

14 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

You are actually helping the argument that rifts are "bad", I wouldn't even go that far but parts of the content from them mostly brightshades are quite bad.

If you play the game twice a year you don't interact with the mechanics that much so that means you won't get tired of it, now if someone puts in over 1000 hours that year into the game and like 700 of those hours are with rifts turned on, they will get very annoyed by the endless waves of brightshades especially if they don't use dragon fruit lava pond setup that wasn't intended by the devs.

Moon Quay/Pirate raids are basically punishment either way you go about it. You either let monkeys rob you, bribe them with bananas or you kill them and also get punished. The fight itself isn't very fun because a player can be stun locked and overwhelmed by their numbers.

You make a solid point and I'm curious myself if our opinion on brightshades is gonna chance once we play again in the future, where there is more rift content to keep us busy. Now we did have lunar rifts on for a solid 50 hours last time we played 'cus we did everything lunar first, 50 is not 700 but still quite a good amount of time spent with it. Still, we didn't find them that annoying. It probably didn't bother us that much 'cus we've dealt with worse in games like Terraria with back-to-back solar eclipses, blood moons and pirate raids on master mode which take waaaaaaay longer to deal with than a couple of brightshades from time to time.

Yeah I don't like getting trinkets for defending yourself from monkeys. The only good thing you get out of killing them is the paddle of the captain and their hat, but that won't change the fact that you need to head back to the Moon Quay to get rid of trinkets. Now you can outspeed them, 2 sails is the same speed as them so with paddling you go faster. If you get good at sailing then you can have them crash into stuff and sink their boat (takes a bit too long but it's a way at least)

[user1464576869]

14 hours ago, Popian said:

And whether or not that passion is genuine, this gives a blanket for people (intentionally) crossing the line to hide under. It's also dismissive to not take things case by case, but that's a lot of work so it's best we acknowledge that some statements are made targeting specific groups.

I don't understand what you mean by the last part?

It sounds entirely reasonable to me to take things on case by case- What you're arguing to me right now sounds like it's conclusion is to mean because it's generally agreed upon to be reasonably fair to leave constructive critique people will abuse it to try hide behind when crossing lines*; therefore we can't realistically have critique at all? No..?

I don't agree it gives people a blanket to hide behind due to the fact it won't be successful; we can generally recognize when lines are crossed, there's consequences. * Not to mention it is an interesting topic on what to even define as crossing the line, but ultimately on this forum I take it that's up to the moderators. Moderators who regularly come in and tell people to cool a bit.

[Popian]

10 hours ago, user1464576869 said:

therefore we can't realistically have critique at all? No..?

Therefore we should take things case by case and avoid sweeping statements if you care about it enough.

10 hours ago, user1464576869 said:

what to even define as crossing the line

Say for this topic on "entitlement", there is a suggestion with its use that the assumed/demanded privileges are not deserved, so it follows that you can ask whether it's unreasonable for the developers to have that responsibility in a given case. And the original post was on boss design so I personally think no.

[user1464576869]

1 hour ago, Popian said:

Therefore we should take things case by case and avoid sweeping statements if you care about it enough.

Say for this topic on "entitlement", there is a suggestion with its use that the assumed/demanded privileges are not deserved, so it follows that you can ask whether it's unreasonable for the developers to have that responsibility in a given case. And the original post was on boss design so I personally think no.

What. :U

I can't interpret anything you're saying now. Is this AI?

Is this just me? What's happening?