hot takes Your Dont Starve Together Hot Takes

[WenericMember]

4 minutes ago, Retepeter said:

I'm not saying I hate the idea of Wendy, I think it's descent but in the current meta she's just a Wolfgang but for people that can't kite and in general I think her skill floor is waaaay too low

For the former... I think that applies to most characters TBH. Wolfgang is just hyperoptimised for combat right now. I'd wait until the rest of the characters get skill trees first. Wendy's lower than normal DPS in a vacuum just means its more apparent bc she already has to optimize her combat.

As for the skill floor... fair enough. She is probably by far the easiest character to achieve baseline survival. Rather than completely removing her though, how would you rework her to increase her skill floor while remaining unique?

[_zwb]

17 minutes ago, Retepeter said:

I hope I wasn't coming off as too rude, I just wanted to start a discussion

Well......

2 hours ago, DownloadADuck said:

Just to remind everyone, please do not argue, judge, or give negative opinions on other people's posts

Discussion is about arguing no? That is a very weird request though, since when does this place become "all praise no criticism"?

[DownloadADuck]

4 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Well......

Discussion is about arguing no? That is a very weird request though, since when does this place become "all praise no criticism"?

I just wanted to see if it was possible to make a post about things people don't like without people basically saying "your idea sucks" to others seince I've seen a lot of that on these forums recently

[_zwb]

2 minutes ago, DownloadADuck said:

if it was possible to make a post about things people don't like without people basically saying "your idea sucks" to others

Judging by this thread, the answer is no

[DownloadADuck]

.

Just now, _zwb said:

Judging by this thread, the answer is no

Yeaaa it was a bit of a failure 

[Valase]

Most of the "cheese" that you can use in a boss battle is fine (Walls for DF, Bees for CK, pushing toadstool, flute spam for BQ and Twins, getting Klaus deers stuck out of cast range) because if they were not fine, they would have been patched out (Wanda cheesing klaus on his sack, Wendy bringing BQ to a boat).

And playing as a puritan only weakens your argument on game matters.

[goatt]

planar damage is a convenient tool for developers for the purpose of artificial gate-keeping, but a poor-quality mechanic that is not very fun by itself, because it crudely invalidate everything before it with math formula which is too obscure or confusing to be sensible to majority or the players. They just tolerate it.

[somethin]

People who don't like planar damage are salty that they can't use hambat/darksword to kill every single kind of mob in the game as efficiently anymore, so they go to the argument of 'invalidating choices' when realistically they wouldn't use a spear as their main weapon once they have the means to get better gear pre-rift anyway.

[Bernado1]

6 hours ago, BalkanCockroach said:

2x multiplier isn't no small enhancement especially when it comes to bosses with big hp.  You're saying some characters have perks that make them better at certain things. Im not arguing with that but i am saying Wolfgang is the best to fight bosses, and thats where the topic took off from. Also you really wanna stress that Wolfgang is only good at "some" things. What is there to be good at in this game? Fighting and Farming are the key elements and wolfgang is good at them.

And I stand by that statement, fighting and farming are important parts of DST, yes, but Wolfgang is not the best characters for boss fights by a mile when Old Wanda and Wx exists, he’s not the best farming character because Maxwell and Woodie exists, he’s not even fit to be support with his new whistle because Warly and Wortox are mountains above him. Not to mention area denial like Wendy, numbers advantage like Wurt or gimmick stuff like Wilson and Wes.
He’s a simple character that I think it’s good enough as it is, not OP, but good at what he does. 

He’s not in the “Now I’ll never play him again because Klei ruined him to me” side, neither in the “He’s too strong, he does everything better than everyone, if you don’t play him you’re handicapping yourself” side.

[BalkanCockroach]

10 minutes ago, Bernado1 said:

And I stand by that statement, fighting and farming are important parts of DST, yes, but Wolfgang is not the best characters for boss fights by a mile when Old Wanda and Wx exists, he’s not the best farming character because Maxwell and Woodie exists, he’s not even fit to be support with his new whistle because Warly and Wortox are mountains above him. Not to mention area denial like Wendy, numbers advantage like Wurt or gimmick stuff like Wilson and Wes.
He’s a simple character that I think it’s good enough as it is, not OP, but good at what he does. 

Mhm yeah... sure.

[Creatorofswamps]

On 10/30/2023 at 3:05 AM, hoppin mandrake said:

I hate that all the Wurt skins make her not look like a Merm. Instead she looks like some other kind of monster in almost every one. Kills the immersion for me. I always have to go default skin so I can feel like I'm one of the tribe. Hopefully her survivor skin leaves her looking like a merm.

I found a person with obsalyubno the same opinion as me. I pray to the gods that in the skin of The Survivor she would remain herself (merms) only more battered. Or at least in an extreme case, she became a merms guardian.

I would like this more than any update

[AriaMain]

I think it's about time the lore reaches it's conclusion. Also Wagstaff and Charlie should be playable

Edited October 31, 2023 by AriaMain

[goatt]

20 hours ago, somethin said:

People who don't like planar damage are salty that they can't use hambat/darksword to kill every single kind of mob in the game as efficiently anymore, so they go to the argument of 'invalidating choices' when realistically they wouldn't use a spear as their main weapon once they have the means to get better gear pre-rift anyway.

I feel odd, because you replied directly to my hot take and quote my word "invalidate", but didn't tag me. If you want a productive conversation, you can tag me.

But since I've seen it, I'll reply.

First of all, my hot take only says my opinion. I don't intend to represent anyone else. And I consider my own hot take original.

 

Now let me explain why it "invalidates"

Every game has a progression. The game designs different monsters and bosses to teach players certain skills for a harder challenge. This progression also introduces an experience to show people how the game world is. For example, one's skill progress from killing spiders to killing pigs, to killing deerclops. That's how players improve their fighting skills and weapon progression to prepare for bigger challenges.

The interesting highlight here is that the game is simple enough for players to learn those things intuitively, with or without looking up the wiki. In fact, most of the mechanics in the game give players enough anticipation for players to learn and react. When a mob has long pre-cast animation, that gives out huge cues. Sound effects help players learn about food hazards. Insanity aura helps players anticipate something insane is gonna happen. It's a pretty simple but communicative tradition of DST. Plus the numbers are very simple (non-tool weapons have only 3 damage tiers, 34, 51, 68)

 

Then Klei invented Planar Damage. It's a mechanic that's so unintuitive and obscure, that no one was going to find out how it works without looking into the code (even tho I did figure out the math formula by myself without looking into the code). Even after knowing the formula, I, as a player, can't easily make sense of it without asking Google to calculate a complicated algebra.

There have been some posts in this forum from pro players, asking how the numbers work precisely, because of how confusing it is. DST even decides to add punchbags to help players learn because of how obscure it is. It completely invalidates (contradicts) the intuitive learning and game experience prior.

Planar system is the first time DST introduced something that only helps developers, but not the players. Most players can intuitively feel how artificial it is. And many have asked why use such a system. I replied to those questions and answered them from the very early stage of planar damage. I didn't criticize the system at the time because I was very empathetic of the devs and I like challenging (torturing) gameplay, so I didn't mind.

But since then, I've learned a lot more about game design, and I realize that knowing consciously doesn't change the fact that it doesn't feel right. It simply doesn't feel right. If you want to implement monster armor, Snurtles, rock lobsters and toatstools are good designs and conventions to follow, because they have visual cues (shells and mushtrees) to tell players what to anticipate, and players can intuitively react accordingly.

But planar system is, the harder you hit, the lower damage percentage you get. It doesn't make any sense, except for pure number manipulation or so-called balancing or gate keeping, which is exactly what happens. Its goal was to trvialize the game content prior to make new content more viable. But it's done in the way that only benefits the devs (imo), but harms long-established (10 years) anticipated game experience for players.

So that's what I mean by invalidating.

 

Do I have better designs? Yes, I do. But this reply is long enough, so I don't feel like continue. But to put simply, in my opinion, a good DST design needs to be intuitive, has clear visual anticipative feedback. Planar damage lacks both. (It doesn't have little spark animation from planar damage, but it's too trivia for what's been discussed here).

[Retepeter]

14 hours ago, AriaMain said:

I think it's about time the lore reaches it's conclusion. Also Wagstaff and Charlie should be playable

I disagree, lore is a strong motivator for keeping me invested in the game because ds's story is told so well with a mixture of character quotes and animated shorts

Also more playable characters are obviously not coming(unless it's some strange outlier like wonkey) because some skin bundles are called "complete" with skins for every current character

The only exceptions here being the forge skin bundles but those had the characters that were playable in the forge so giving Wanda a forge skin for an event she didn't even participate in would be a bit silly

 

[Keller Max]

Majority of Wigfrid songs are useless garbage.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Keller Max

[_zwb]

6 minutes ago, Keller Max said:

useless garbage.

Incorrect. They are recyclable garbage.

[Fufuji]

2021~2023 Wilson rework update, this period of time also belongs to ROT arc. Most of the ROT updates contents (except for RWYS and CC itself) are ultimately proven garbage. And ALL updates from ROT's end to Wilson rework sucks too so they go to the same pile of crap. Setting the Stage arc even has only 2 actual content updates, that's not an arc seriously.

Luckily we have a (or several) way more clever dev conducting FB now.

And when rework/remove ancient garbage like freezing resistance, explosion resistance, epic scare, wild fire, Beequeen, Toadstool, Crab King, Bosses prior to aggro players?

[Jakepeng99]

18 hours ago, AriaMain said:

Snip (Using this comment as a link for an example)

Starting to see more people use snip when replying and it is intuitive.

▪It does not save page space, that is what the expand button is for.

▪It makes it look very out if context since we do not know what they are talking about.

▪If we want to know what it is about, we either have to puzzle our way through, or click on the link arrow which makes us go through a loading page to get there. And, if we want to get back to the original comment, we have to go back and try find it again.

▪The person doing it has to delete stuff in the reply and enter the word snip.

Whereas,  we could read and see both comments on the same page with none of these issues present without the use of snip.

 

Nothing personal i assume this counts as a don't starve hot take. (Also Unlocking Wagstaff and Charlie like Maxwell would be interesting)

Edited November 1, 2023 by Jakepeng99

[BalkanCockroach]

2 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

 

Nothing personal i assume this counts as a don't starve hot take. (Also Unlocking Wagstaff and Charlie like Maxwell would be interesting)

Unrelated but for the future of Wagstaffs story instead of the "Oh no he meddled with the powers he couldn't comprehend" trope, i would much rather have Wagstaff conquer the constant with his machines infused with his new moon power. We all know Wagstaff is evil and it would be cool seeing him as the final evil killing/absorbing altar.

[maradyne]

3 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

snip

We used to use it because quoting would previously show the entire quote, no expand option, leaving a wall of repeated text for everyone to scroll through.
I did it recently out of habit, and I assume the same is true for others.

 

Anyway,

Hot Take Remake Revival X Blood Pt.2 Ch.5 -The Sequel- (& Knuckles):
I'd love to see everything about combat in this game uprooted using Forge concepts as a base.
Like it or not, combat is a focus of this game now, so it might as well be good.

[lenship2]

enemies dealing planar damage is really cool

having terraria-like planar defense with the new armors is cool

enemies have planar entity defense is not cool and really unnecessary 

[Jakepeng99]

Wx circuits are a great idea but terribly balanced.

▪You are forced to stick with your own same set up 95% of the time due to the circuit durability loss and power charge up.

▪Most circuits are useless. Gastrogain, mini health/gastro, speed circuit, royale jelly, seasonal circuits, and nightvision and illuminant are the only ones that are not useless out of many other circuits. (Music box is cool but may aswell use a one man band instead)

▪Too little Circuit slots. Lack of space discourages mixing. 

▪Most circuits are stat increases.

 

All this combined makes WX a 25% speed boost and nightvision for most players since it is the most reliable option. Gastro gain is good though for beefalo, or pre bee queen where you dont believe you need the perma light. They need some things like circuit durability being removed, and things like super health granting some damage reduction similar to how gastro gain reduces hunger drain.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Jakepeng99

[WenericMember]

12 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Wx circuits are a great idea but terribly balanced.

▪You are forced to stick with your own set up 95% of the time due to the circuit durability loss and power charge up.

▪Most circuits are useless. Gastrogain, mini health/gastro, speed circuit, royale jelly, seasonal circuits, and nightvision and illuminant are the only ones that are not useless out of many other circuits. (Music box is cool but may aswell use a one man band)

▪Too little Circuit slots. Lack of space discourages mixing. 

▪Most circuits are stat increases.

 

All this combined makes WX a 25% speed boost and nightvision for most players since it is the most reliable option. Gastro gain is good though for beefalo, or pre bee queen where you dont believe you need the perma light. They need some things like circuit durability being removed, and things like super health granting some damage reduction similar to how gastro gain reduces hunger drain.

Agree to all of this. Luckily many of these issues seem like things that can be solved with a skill tree, so hopefully we can just be patient.

[DownloadADuck]

27 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Things like super health granting some damage reduction similar to how gastro gain reduces hunger drain.

I would LOVE to see this!! Maybe the first could give 20% then the next 15% then the final one 10% resulting in a 45% dmg reduction without armour

[Valase]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

All this combined makes WX a 25% speed boost and nightvision for most players since it is the most reliable option. Gastro gain is good though for beefalo, or pre bee queen where you dont believe you need the perma light. They need some things like circuit durability being removed, and things like super health granting some damage reduction similar to how gastro gain reduces hunger drain.

I agree that the durability should be removed, as it feels very bad to swap circuits around because you always have the mentality of "it will break", or atleast give an option to repair them.

I think that giving natural damage reduction would not be so good on a character that can/could not only stack it, but stack a lot of health as well. But the super health circuit could get a bonus % healing to keep the healing sources a little bit more proportional (maybe 7.5%\15%\30% bonus healing from all sources).

Also, the Illumination circuit could get an update to be considered "sun light" and a upgrade with another less utilized one like chorusbox for the perfect farming guy, or even one of the thermal ones.