Lazy explorers breaking from lost charges - fair and balanced or cruel and unfair mechanic?

[Well-met]

considering there's basically nothing to craft with the tusk or orange gems, it's perfectly fine as it is.

[Guille6785]

21 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Erm, what the devil?

duping thulecite was never more profitable than simply using construction amulets to reduce the cost of things that cost thulecite, its only use is to get thulecite in a pinch if you need it for some reason and don't want to reset the ruins but you have green gems stockpiled

[00petar00]

On 8/12/2023 at 1:14 PM, Capybara007 said:

Make it so you can use it without durability and it gets a 20 second cooldown

If you use it on cooldown, it does consume durability

This way i actually will like to use it to cross a void or water gap but i also gonna farm them for stuff like fuelweaver

This is what I really want to see.

Why do players need to be so limited when it comes to movement? Its not like it would break the balance if it doesn't use durability but it has cooldown.  Wortox and Wanda already have teleportation and blink like ability.

Almost no one is currently using it a lot because it requires of the player to go to ruins and craft them and waste green gems to decunstruct when they are about to break.

 

[Frosty_Mentos]

I wanna hear the opinion of people who oppose this idea of giving the explorer some sort of a buff/cooldown to not lose charges, if those people got a good idea of what the item does and if they often enough use it on certain or often situations.

What would make it overpowered if it was buffed/your thoughts as to why'd you'd want to oppose this?

What mechanics would it break and how it would affect longterm in your opinion?

What are your thoughts to it's current uses and fragility to rarity of those items?

If you have an idea what would you want the item to do instead or do nothing at all and leave as is?

[Yuuko]

10 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

I wanna hear the opinion of people who oppose this idea of giving the explorer some sort of a buff/cooldown to not lose charges, if those people got a good idea of what the item does and if they often enough use it on certain or often situations.

What would make it overpowered if it was buffed/your thoughts as to why'd you'd want to oppose this?

What mechanics would it break and how it would affect longterm in your opinion?

What are your thoughts to it's current uses and fragility to rarity of those items?

If you have an idea what would you want the item to do instead or do nothing at all and leave as is?

Having a cd for telepoofs ruins it for when you need to poof fast.  Having a cd + charges is overloaded and dumb.

Having it break to a cane is probably the best case, since it saves decon staff charges and still lets you spam them a bit more, just need to craft them in ruins.  Orange gems don't have much use, we don't need to make them even more useless.

Refueling with gems is a bigger discussion b/c there are other items that use gems, and we'd say "why can't we refuel xyz with gems too."  I don't think that is a good direction to take.

I think that preserving telepoof uses, like wearing backpacks are something we do because we are comfortable doing it.  Its not because it is optimal or anything.

[JosePapp]

On 8/13/2023 at 3:52 PM, landromat said:

difference is 20% of green staff, which isn't as much

The thing is, that is a really out of touch late game ish thing to bring up. Even mote advanced casual players don't use green staves often 

[Yuuko]

25 minutes ago, JosePapp said:

The thing is, that is a really out of touch late game ish thing to bring up. Even mote advanced casual players don't use green staves often 

idk green staves are available as part of a basic ruins rush.  Between the ruins and AG you should have a small stash of green gems.  Besides con amulets and decon staves, what do you really need the green gems for?  Since the lunar grotto was added its not tough to get living logs in decent supply for a few staves either, even if you don't find any totally normal trees or farm tree guards.  I think skill range wise most players who can clear ruins (needed to get the tele staff) should be able to get a few staves to reset their walking cane if they wanted.

Even if you never reset ruins you can still get a few green gems from Dfly which is a moderate difficulty boss with a wall solo, derp ez if you're in a group.  Twin terrors gives a green each clear.  You can also get them from cave-ins.  They're rare in cave ins, but if you base there you'll definitely get them.

You could probably make an argument about competing things to decon but I don't buy it.  I decon my pan flutes when their low, but with auto-volt-goat-farms I don't really need to decon weather pains.  Sure I might use it to dupe some thulecite, but 1 green amulet + staff gets plenty of thul for crowns.  If you're really burning armor prolly better to do marble suits anyway lol.  I could always spare a decon to reset my staff if I wanted to.

One of my recent play patterns has been ditching backpacks.  I've found plenty of things are perfectly fine equip options without a backpack.  I started expanding this to things like telepoofing more liberally, and so far that is working out fine too.  Not a bad thing to put extra tusks towards if you're not Wanda.

The only improvement I'd ask for is to change running out of charges breaking the item.  Leave it 0% or if Klei is generous have it break to cane.  I'd like more things to stay 0% like orange and yellow amulets too.

[HeatAndRun]

A bit out of topic, but before Wilson rework I used to equip construction Amulet when I make the explorer, but now according to Wilson's alchemy skill tree the value of orange gem is about 0.11 green gem. (0.13 if you use construction amulet while crafting a green gem with 3 yellow gems) So I don't do such things anymore since 20% of  construction Amulet durability's value is same as 0.2 green gem + 0.4 thulecite.

Now if the explorer doesn't require deconstruction it would be great to avoid not wasting precious green gems.

[Masked Koopa]

5 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Refueling with gyms is a bigger discussion b/c there are other items that use gems, and we'd say "why can't we refuel xyz with gems too."  I don't think that is a good direction to take.

Not at all. You could make the exact same argument about nightmare fuel and the answer for why you can't use fuel on all the gem items would be the same: because the balance wouldn't suit that. Orange gems already have a tendency to pile up, and rn there are like 3 uses for orange gems - Deserters, which are permanent, Foragers, which can be refueled with NM fuel, and Explorers - which is the item we're talking about here.

[Jakepeng99]

I hope for more uses for Walrus tusks. You spend it once on a cane, and that is it for most people. Some spend one on a brush aswell and that is it, onlu Wanda has a way to make use of multiple.

On 8/12/2023 at 9:33 AM, Frosty_Mentos said:

or just using nightmare fuel to fuel it.

Don't do this, since Wortox would then become alot worse since anyone can teleport arguably cheaper.

[Frosty_Mentos]

Personal idea of the lazy explorer why I want it to have a sort of a cooldown or cooldown with risk of durability use if overused is for convenience. Green staves aren't a very up to date as mentioned kind of way to deal with renewing the staves nor is loved by many but being more of a necessity than anything.

[Ginosaji]

19 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Refueling with gems is a bigger discussion b/c there are other items that use gems, and we'd say "why can't we refuel xyz with gems too."  I don't think that is a good direction to take.

This doesn't seem bad for staff items imo.

 

Like think of it this way. The icestaff has 20 uses of ice magic which obviously comes from the blue gem. Similarly the firestaff does the same but for fire,

star caller staff to summon dwarf star, deconstruction staff to use magic to to return 100% of crafting materials, opal to summon polar light and orange gem to allow the user to telepoof on screen.

If we assume that the magic abilities come solely from the gem stones then what if we get an empty staff handle returned into our inventory onto which we can socket a new gem to repair it? Kinda like we socket gems onto moon lenses.

 

I much rather have a more expensive all purpose staff handle recipe for this though than reusing dirt cheap ones. But for the lazy explorer this could work if you get something like your cane skin with some socket on top returned on 0 durability where you could place a new orange gem onto it.

 

For all the amulets this is nothing I'd want. Life giving amulet should be fully consumed on reviving and chilled amulets completely melt away over time. And 2 of the 3 ruins amulets can be refilled with nmf already.

[landromat]

On 8/15/2023 at 12:32 AM, JosePapp said:

The thing is, that is a really out of touch late game ish thing to bring up. Even mote advanced casual players don't use green staves often 

it's literally same tier as explorer, if you can afford it you can afford green staff

[Ginosaji]

Green gems have a lot of uses.

Just for recrafting the panflute once it reaches 10% is very good. Then there is duplicating dread stone for multiple helmets and for pub games using con ammy to bring back pigs from extinction.

People are so lazy that they always hammer instead of turning pigs with 4 monster meat.

 

If you care for lamps you can duplicate toad skins with the napsack blueprint. Decon the enlightened crown to fill the lamps with shard etc.

 

And that's pretty much all uses I can think of that I'd want green gems for. There might be more like deconing bq crown for wax paper but it's not high on my list.

 

 

So greens have way more uses than orange gems. Orange ones I only use for deserter on lunar to drain my sanity in a few spam clicks and a lazy explorer for afw but that's all really.

Yellow gems aren't that useful either. Sure they are used to make star caller and magilu but if you have 2 staffs and a magilu the stuff just collects in chests too. Especially when you get the moon caller for lighting up the area. With 50 uses from the moon caller I don't find much use for new star callers for easily 2 ingame years.

[Cheggf]

On 8/15/2023 at 11:39 AM, Ginosaji said:

This doesn't seem bad for staff items imo.

 

Like think of it this way. The icestaff has 20 uses of ice magic which obviously comes from the blue gem. Similarly the firestaff does the same but for fire,

star caller staff to summon dwarf star, deconstruction staff to use magic to to return 100% of crafting materials, opal to summon polar light and orange gem to allow the user to telepoof on screen.

If we assume that the magic abilities come solely from the gem stones then what if we get an empty staff handle returned into our inventory onto which we can socket a new gem to repair it? Kinda like we socket gems onto moon lenses.

 

I much rather have a more expensive all purpose staff handle recipe for this though than reusing dirt cheap ones. But for the lazy explorer this could work if you get something like your cane skin with some socket on top returned on 0 durability where you could place a new orange gem onto it.

 

For all the amulets this is nothing I'd want. Life giving amulet should be fully consumed on reviving and chilled amulets completely melt away over time. And 2 of the 3 ruins amulets can be refilled with nmf already.

I would hate not being able to rush r&b staves just so there can be a weird socketing mechanic