Dragonboooorn Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Why one can only use whistle in normal form? In all of the situations when Wolfgang should use whistle is during fight or pre fight, but a good Wolfgang player is already mighty and ready for said fight! idk how you supposed to find a room for whistle during combat, L skill that forces Wolfgang to stay in normal form. are they making him a summoner or somth lol Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackE Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 I'm not trying to justify the game design, because I don't like it too much either, but if I have to play devils advocate maybe they want Wolfgangs mid form to have abilities to make it more unique and allow for different playstyles outside of just hitting things harder in mighty form? It also seems like they're trying to balance his new powers somewhat? it doesn't have to be necessarily better or equal just different? That's my reasoning at least. I'm not the biggest fan of "coach Wolfgang" something like this would make more sense on someone like Wigfrid who can already buff allies in fights and seeing something like this on her would've been better IMO, but hey like I said it seems like they want more variety in his gameplay. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonboooorn Posted July 12, 2023 Author Share Posted July 12, 2023 13 minutes ago, WhackE said: I'm not trying to justify the game design, because I don't like it too much either, but if I have to play devils advocate maybe they want Wolfgangs mid form to have abilities to make it more unique and allow for different playstyles outside of just hitting things harder in mighty form? It also seems like they're trying to balance his new powers somewhat? it doesn't have to be necessarily better or equal just different? That's my reasoning at least. I'm not the biggest fan of "coach Wolfgang" something like this would make more sense on someone like Wigfrid who can already buff allies in fights and seeing something like this on her would've been better IMO, but hey like I said it seems like they want more variety in his gameplay. Imagine a muscular giant fighting by your side AND cheering you up, saying motivational stuff like "I believe you can do it, you just as strong as Wolfgang if you try a little" and so on? Isnt it kinda epic and also fitting Wolfgangs character as the buff cowardly man who will overcome his frights if it comes to protecting and helping his friends? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
landromat Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 whistle doubles followers damage. seems pretty huge if you ask Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamboyant wolf Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 it seems to have some synergy potential with characters who rely on followers, so that's nice, at least. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohan Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 2 hours ago, landromat said: whistle doubles followers damage. seems pretty huge if you ask Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh.. DOUBLES?! That is such a weird thing for wolf to have.. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neu7ral Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 3 hours ago, landromat said: whistle doubles followers damage. seems pretty huge if you ask Wasn't it 1.5x? Anyways, it's a good skill, interesting sidegrade of sacrificing x2 for global 1.5x Wolfgang's followers, though I feel his insight tree is too straightforward, I wish they gave him more room for sidegrades because just two upgrades for it is, eh. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
landromat Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 3 hours ago, Neu7ral said: Wasn't it 1.5x? Anyways, it's a good skill, interesting sidegrade of sacrificing x2 for global 1.5x Wolfgang's followers, though I feel his insight tree is too straightforward, I wish they gave him more room for sidegrades because just two upgrades for it is, eh. pig deals 66 damage. regular damage is 33. Once you used whistle, Wolfgang cheers automatically every 15 seconds or so, and buff lasts for 10, so followers do 65% more damage on average Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybers2001 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 The whistle is a good idea, just not for Wolfgang. Wolfgang’s skills should revolve around 3 things, imo: 1) combat 2) labor (mining, chopping, fishing, paddling) 3) heavy lifting (ie. statues) Anything else just doesn’t make sense for him. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
landromat Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Whistled pigs with woodie hard wood hats is new meta Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 5 hours ago, Ohan said: Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh.. DOUBLES?! That is such a weird thing for wolf to have.. Yea you would think that would be given to a....ya know follower character which does make it slightly worried on that front. 42 minutes ago, landromat said: pig deals 66 damage. regular damage is 33. Once you used whistle, Wolfgang cheers automatically every 15 seconds or so, and buff lasts for 10, so followers do 65% more damage on average Wolfgang undermining Wurt's entire Merm King questline with one skill. Seeing merm guards dealing 100 damage per hit hit will be funny though. Come to think of it does his buff stack? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MondayNight Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 15 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: Yea you would think that would be given to a....ya know follower character which does make it slightly worried on that front. Bodybuilding, gyms and coaching goes hand-in-hand. With this I reckon KLei wants to promote followers more outside of... just food/loot, and also give Wolf's new toys around the "strong man"/huge dmg-dealing persona. From lore pov he also seems stoic/altruistic, thus quite a few reasons for such design. Yes, can also be seen as "bloating" akin Walter's perks, but oh well... old story by now. PS: perhaps devs want all characters to be Jacks-of-all-trades in broad lines, and not over-specialize with strict roles. For example now Wormwood can be "built" into a nice combat character as well. Woodie too. Probably rest of the cast will have such "Jack of all trades, master of.. one/some" approach through future Skill Trees. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said: Bodybuilding, gyms and coaching goes hand-in-hand. With this I reckon KLei wants to promote followers more outside of... just food/loot, and also give Wolf's new toys around the "strong man"/huge dmg-dealing persona. From lore pov he also seems stoic/altruistic, thus quite a few reasons for such design. Yes, can also be seen as "bloating" akin Walter's perks, but oh well... old story by now. Problem kinda becomes wouldn't you expect follower boosting skills to go to follower characters? It's not like non character specific followers aren't still very useful. Edit: perk bloat as people call it these days wasn't even a Walter exclusive thing before this update btw. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
landromat Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 17 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: Yea you would think that would be given to a....ya know follower character which does make it slightly worried on that front. Wolfgang undermining Wurt's entire Merm King questline with one skill. Seeing merm guards dealing 100 damage per hit hit will be funny though. Come to think of it does his buff stack? probably 2nd wolf just resets buff of 1st, but when 1 wolf can buff pigs for 66% of time, two wolfs can keep them buffed forever. so we're going from 65% damage boost to 100% damage boost, but this needs to be tested Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MondayNight Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 23 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: Problem kinda becomes wouldn't you expect follower boosting skills to go to follower characters? It's not like non character specific followers aren't still very useful. Edit: perk bloat as people call it these days wasn't even a Walter exclusive thing before this update btw. I was editing my post while you replied to include this take, namely maybe KLei wants all characters be "Jacks of all trades, masters of.. one/some" and not go the classic route of over-specialization, with rigorous classes, via adjacent future Skill Trees for rest of cast. This could mitigate in their view the "pick&swap" issue underlined many times on these forums, as well as players not really cooperating in pubs/dedicated community servers (or the fact vast majority plays alone, exacerbating the "pick&swap" aspect). Also, once more, promoting followers as.. followers ("heart beating, breathing allies"), not "walking basic resources" waiting for the whack. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 minute ago, MostMerryTomcat said: I was editing my post while you replied to include this take, namely maybe KLei wants all characters be "Jacks of all trades, masters of.. one/some" and not go the classic route of over-specialization, with rigorous classes, via adjacent future Skill Trees for rest of characters. This could mitigate in their view the "pick&swap" issue underlined many times on these forums, as well as players not really cooperating in pubs/dedicated community servers (or the fact vast majority plays alone, exacerbating the "pick&swap" aspect). Also, once more, promoting followers as.. followers, not "walking basic resources" waiting the whack. I really really pray this isn't the route they are going can you imagine how much worse the x is better than y debates would that would get we already have wolfgang vs wanda, webber vs wurt, wurt vs woodie vs maxwell and more we don't need more fuel for these debates. Also I've played games that went this route and by the end of it multiple reworks later everything blends together and ends up feeling lame. To give you an example I once played a game where it had a mech using character who used lasers, a brawler who used various hand to hand combat techniques, and a archer who attacked from a distance. Each character offered a different approach to combat but eventually it was noticed that the characters with lasers had a easier time killing more enemies meaning it was easier to level up with him rather than coming up with a unique solution to this what the did was give the brawler a laser attack he shot from his hands and the archer a barrage attack that formed the same laser pattern as the laser making them basically the same character with a different skin. Now dst hasn't reached that point...yet but I'd rather it avoided anymore steps in the direction of blending perks. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_NiX Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 54 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: Wolfgang undermining Wurt's entire Merm King questline with one skill. I mean... They seem to be Stacking. Merm King will remember your loyalty and contribution. Is this secretly a Wurt teamwork buff? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Master_NiX said: I mean... They seem to be Stacking. Merm King will remember your loyalty and contribution. Is this secretly a Wurt teamwork buff? I mean I already figured it applied to all followers. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_NiX Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: I mean I already figured it applied to all followers. I was too busy making a screenshot for the Merms that I forgot to update page and missed all the discussion xD Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDuelist Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 does it have a bonus for other players too? if so, how much? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said: does it have a bonus for other players too? if so, how much? Just sanity gain from what I hear. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GelatinousCube Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 18 hours ago, landromat said: whistle doubles followers damage. seems pretty huge if you ask Holy hell, that sounds insane for bee queen. Give like half the bunnymen carrots and they'll take her down twice as fast as normal. 10 hours ago, Mysterious box said: Yea you would think that would be given to a....ya know follower character which does make it slightly worried on that front. Wouldn't it be extremely busted on a follower character though..? Like an army of Merms or spiders all doing double damage sounds way too busted. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149355-wolfgang-skill-tree-perks-forces-him-to-stay-in-normal-form/#findComment-1649712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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