discussion Is the old bell justified to make a return in dst?

[Jakepeng99]

Back then, they did not port over the old bell from ds as it had the capability of greifing bases, back in the time when they removed Willow's fire immunity to "nerf" her greifing ability. However, does that matter? Any player can make a torch, any player can hammer stuff, any player can log out with many resources to never return. However, with the old bell you may accidently do an unfortunate misclick, or a curious noob wants to find out what this item in the chest does. Is greifing the player's fault, or the old bell's fault? There are ways to prevent misclicks by storing it afar from base, or giving the bell a spoilage timer that reduces on use so people wont store them in chests and instead craft them, and keep in mind we have rollbacks for those potential situations which we did not have before, but another question is if we really need or want the old bell back. But what does everyone else think? Could it be ported? And, how may it be changed for , or effect dst?

[_zwb]

I'm already sick of kicking new players just because they don't know what the pan flute or star caller staff do, adding another potential griefing method is not doing any good. Yes, rollbacks exist but think of the time wasted because you have to rollback every so often. Nope thank you.

[Jakepeng99]

14 minutes ago, _zwb said:

I'm already sick of kicking new players just because they don't know what the pan flute or star caller staff do, adding another potential griefing method is not doing any good. Yes, rollbacks exist but think of the time wasted because you have to rollback every so often. Nope thank you.

Yeah it's why i suggested giving it a spoilage timer. 

[Antynomity]

I want it just because it was in RoG.

[_zwb]

20 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Yeah it's why i suggested giving it a spoilage timer. 

Bundling wraps: allow us to introduce ourselves.

Seriously, I hate when people unwrap bundles and just leave stuff there to spoil. And in this scenario, newbies would just unbundle something because they don't know how bundles work, then use the bell because they don't know what the bell do...

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

when they removed Willow's fire immunity to "nerf" her greifing ability

They made her take fire damage because they thought that fire was going to be commonly used in PvP. A lot of the early changes were PvP focused. Now they don't seem to consider PvP at all. 

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

giving the bell a spoilage timer that reduces on use so people wont store them in chests and instead craft them

It's a bell, not food.

[Pe Dabliu]

Either bring it back, which could cause some balancing issues bc it hasn't  been taken into consideration with the new content added after it's removal, or give gloomer's wing a new use, maybe with a new blueprint that drops from the statue just like with the bell.

[cropo]

Make the wings able to be crafted into a gross hat that doubles any naughtiness you gain to really piss Krampus off.

[MikoFanboy]

honestly I don't see any reason why not
back then then sure, but now we has rollback as a feature
 

[Cheggf]

6 minutes ago, MikoFanboy said:

honestly I don't see any reason why not
back then then sure, but now we has rollback as a feature
 

Was rollback added? I want to say it's always been in DST but I don't remember so well. 

[MikoFanboy]

5 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Was rollback added? I want to say it's always been in DST but I don't remember so well. 

I don't remember having it during the very first few build of DST (before release) but I think it was added at some point before they add RoG into DST

[-Nick-]

I do want the Old Bell to return but reworked. It having a more costlier crafting recipe and more control over big foot.

I would absolutely love if it acted like the staffs from the Forge. Summoning Bigfoot to the place where you had the circle. Would be amazing as a support tool for bosses.

[Baark0]

Speedrun old bell, patiently wait for a large base to develop on a public server, then perform a minor amount of tomfoolery on unsuspecting players.

[Well-met]

yes please. Most public servers don't get past the first winter anyway

[ADM]

This thing sounds like too much fun to pass on (can we get the funny backpack too ?), would love to have it added. I don't see it as a problem with or without new players as this would be more costly to make than any other "newbie mistake" there is already. And not to bring grieffing in discussion but if torch exist so can the bell.

[Nikki Darks]

Taking griefing into consideration when discussing a game like DST which has PUBLIC servers and PRIVATE servers is pointless.

You cannot balance and should NOT balance the griefing part of the game around PUBLIC servers which are PUBLIC and ANYONE can join in, and the player quality is unreliable and out of your control.

And in private servers you get to CHOOSE which TYPE of player you play with and you KNOW what you're getting yourself into, making griefing YOUR OWN fault for letting BAD PEOPLE into your server.

Griefing is NEVER the issue of an item or a mechanic, it's the issue of BAD PEOPLE EXISTING.

Stop trying to balance the game around pubs because you have no friends to play with and embrace these creative items which bring more life into the game.

Since Willow was mentioned, Willow's griefing potential with fire starting was a mistake of the PLAYER who wasn't GOOD enough to MANAGE their sanity, which yet again is an issue on the player's part, not the mechanic's.

Go get some friends, stop trying to sanitize and dumb down the game until it's a blank slate with no interesting mechanics just because some BAD PERSON might MISUSE an interesting item or mechanic.

<3

[Pe Dabliu]

The argument against griefers is so pointless to me. Get a torch and a hammer and you're good to go to destroy everything. I really don't like how klei still puts time on this matter. Sure, you take away the face of the griefing by removing some stuff, but you don't take the griefing away, so what's the point. We just end up missing out on nice things bc of this. Griefers will always grief, end of the story. 

[Popian]

5 hours ago, Baark0 said:

Speedrun old bell, patiently wait for a large base to develop on a public server, then perform a minor amount of tomfoolery on unsuspecting players.

Speedrun the CC questline so you can throw Brightshade Bombs at others.

[Scrimbles]

2 hours ago, Pe Dabliu said:

The argument against griefers is so pointless to me. Get a torch and a hammer and you're good to go to destroy everything. I really don't like how klei still puts time on this matter. Sure, you take away the face of the griefing by removing some stuff, but you don't take the griefing away, so what's the point. We just end up missing out on nice things bc of this. Griefers will always grief, end of the story. 

Over all I agree, but there's also "accidental" destruction to factor in;

What if a player doesn't know what the bell does, and happens to ring it in a public lobby? What if someone rings it and Biiigfoot just happens to stomp off in the direction of some important structures?

Aside from that, I think it was a really easy to get item at early stages of the game that can easily wipe out bosses without much though, so I'm not exactly sad that it's gone.

[Dextops]

Add a small new island in the ocean and in the middle of it is a rundown shrine for big foot and on an altar is the old bell. That’d be neat

[MagicalStorm]

21 minutes ago, Dextops said:

Add a small new island in the ocean and in the middle of it is a rundown shrine for big foot and on an altar is the old bell. That’d be neat

Those cultists liked some weeird stuff

[MikoFanboy]

4 hours ago, Nikki Darks said:

Stop trying to balance the game around pubs because you have no friends to play with and embrace these creative items which bring more life into the game.

YES

[RealPanda]

6 hours ago, Pe Dabliu said:

The argument against griefers is so pointless to me. Get a torch and a hammer and you're good to go to destroy everything. I really don't like how klei still puts time on this matter. Sure, you take away the face of the griefing by removing some stuff, but you don't take the griefing away, so what's the point. We just end up missing out on nice things bc of this. Griefers will always grief, end of the story. 

I agree with this. Removing certain elements might hide the griefing, but it doesn't actually stop it from appearing again and again countless times. Although I think Klei understands that griefing will always be a part of games, especially for DST since it's a multiplayer game, but removing items or features will not solve the issue at all. If anything, the community's good side suffers from that and will miss out on the fun of having those items now gone, which i find unfair. The real issue is that there are no consequences for griefers, as they can keep doing it from one server to another. But we as a community also must understand that griefing will always be a part of the game. While I know that not everyone in the community is a griefer, the overall community culture can inadvertently contribute to the problem, making griefers more common. When griefers get away with it, others see that and feel they can do the same without consequences. We shouldn't stoop down to their level. Instead, we should aim to create a positive community, promoting good sportsmanship, empathy, and teamwork, shifting the focus from destructive behavior to constructive gameplay while at the same time discouraging griefing and toxic actions. Rather than solely relying on the developers of Klei to address this issue, it's up to us as a community to take action. As I said, we need to recognize that griefing persists because there are no real consequences for those who take part in griefing. Doing this can create an environment where griefing becomes less frequent and less prevalent. This is one of the solutions I came up with, and yes, while it isn't easy as it requires time and action, no one said it would be easy to do, but it also isn't impossible to achieve. Besides, I doubt Klei at the moment can realistically police all the damn servers at once. I'm not saying they can't do their job, but I'm saying I don't think they have the time, money, and resources to be able to do this sort of thing or able to implement cost-effective methods in an attempt to "solve" or "fix" the issue of griefers. We can only hope there may be solutions to these things sometime in the future, but not now, as we must rely on our community and ourselves for this issue. And funny enough, we get exactly what we paid for.

Source: Klei's Offical Website

My other two solutions are either go play on a private server with yourself/friends or a community server that operates it and deals with griefers if you really care that much about griefers or... you guessed it! Take your chances with strangers and play public servers, but know that you may or may not encounter griefers. So that's what I think about the situation on griefers, and while I do have my fair share of griefers, there's not much we can do other than do rollbacks and kick the person, as those were the options Klei gave us.

[_zwb]

7 hours ago, Nikki Darks said:

Taking griefing into consideration when discussing a game like DST which has PUBLIC servers and PRIVATE servers is pointless.

You cannot balance and should NOT balance the griefing part of the game around PUBLIC servers which are PUBLIC and ANYONE can join in, and the player quality is unreliable and out of your control.

And in private servers you get to CHOOSE which TYPE of player you play with and you KNOW what you're getting yourself into, making griefing YOUR OWN fault for letting BAD PEOPLE into your server.

Griefing is NEVER the issue of an item or a mechanic, it's the issue of BAD PEOPLE EXISTING.

Stop trying to balance the game around pubs because you have no friends to play with and embrace these creative items which bring more life into the game.

Since Willow was mentioned, Willow's griefing potential with fire starting was a mistake of the PLAYER who wasn't GOOD enough to MANAGE their sanity, which yet again is an issue on the player's part, not the mechanic's.

Go get some friends, stop trying to sanitize and dumb down the game until it's a blank slate with no interesting mechanics just because some BAD PERSON might MISUSE an interesting item or mechanic.

<3

It's really weird how the devs take other people's actions into consideration when designing a multiplayer game huh?

 

Blaming on "bad person" doesn't solve the problem. It just divides the player base and start them fighting each other. They could be just unaware of the bell's destructive nature. There also might be misclicks, and considering that they removed casting cancellation of pan flutes and I Wickerbottom's books, this likely wouldn't be cancel-able either. Those aren't the proof that they're "bad players", they do not intend to grief in those situations.

[Jakepeng99]

21 hours ago, _zwb said:

Bundling wraps: allow us to introduce ourselves.

Seriously, I hate when people unwrap bundles and just leave stuff there to spoil. And in this scenario, newbies would just unbundle something because they don't know how bundles work, then use the bell because they don't know what the bell do...

Meh that is not the bell's fault that is the newbies at this point, someone could just as easily find brightshade bombs.

14 hours ago, -Nick- said:

I do want the Old Bell to return but reworked. It having a more costlier crafting recipe and more control over big foot.

I would absolutely love if it acted like the staffs from the Forge. Summoning Bigfoot to the place where you had the circle. Would be amazing as a support tool for bosses.

I agree, maybe add a new structure (or path) that big foot will prioritise on stamping on and destroying to control.

9 hours ago, Nikki Darks said:

Taking griefing into consideration when discussing a game like DST which has PUBLIC servers and PRIVATE servers is pointless.

You cannot balance and should NOT balance the griefing part of the game around PUBLIC servers which are PUBLIC and ANYONE can join in, and the player quality is unreliable and out of your control.

And in private servers you get to CHOOSE which TYPE of player you play with and you KNOW what you're getting yourself into, making griefing YOUR OWN fault for letting BAD PEOPLE into your server.

Griefing is NEVER the issue of an item or a mechanic, it's the issue of BAD PEOPLE EXISTING.

Stop trying to balance the game around pubs because you have no friends to play with and embrace these creative items which bring more life into the game.

Since Willow was mentioned, Willow's griefing potential with fire starting was a mistake of the PLAYER who wasn't GOOD enough to MANAGE their sanity, which yet again is an issue on the player's part, not the mechanic's.

Go get some friends, stop trying to sanitize and dumb down the game until it's a blank slate with no interesting mechanics just because some BAD PERSON might MISUSE an interesting item or mechanic.

<3

I was being argumentitive and discussing points people may bring up to try start a discussion and see what other people think, i am for the bell, and i think the removing Willow fire is dumb and i thought it was clear that i thought it was. Also no need to be so unessisarly sour and dramatic over this.