I don't know a nice way of saying this... Shouldn't we WANT to do new content?

[bloopah]

26 minutes ago, Well-met said:

There was a demand for more end game content and that's exactly what they're delivering.

If there's a demand for a bakery to bake cakes, do you want them to hand out the ingredients for the cake batter to the customers and have them make an announcement that the toppings will come later, or do you want them to actually bake the cake themselves?

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, Vinja said:

Idk about “go wild” with the rewards but a new tier of weapons that aren’t neutered on everything but the brand new content would be cool. I think the planar damage and defense was something cool to test and try out and was worth looking into but it’s just not a great addition in practice in my opinion. 

And that's fair but I feel like the system is more so experiencing growing pains with the community still feel like maybe it needs more time.

[Yuuko]

51 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

And that's fair but I feel like the system is more so experiencing growing pains with the community still feel like maybe it needs more time.

More time for new interactions within its contained system doesn't counter the criticism that it is too self contained.

[xhyom]

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I want to have faith in Klei that there’s a huge bigger picture incoming.. but it’s hard not to be concerned.

I have faith in Klei because I know they can do incredible things, but there's no bigger picture in these updates. I even have some hope for the portals, but what will probably happen is that they trigger the next updates through the lore and have zero relation between their items/gameplay. Plus, it's content that never interacts with normal gameplay unless you proactively go looking for it, it's not like The Archives that you accidentally find during exploration and are amazed at the discovery, if you didn't already know what you going after it has zero chance of you interacting with the content, so I highly doubt there's any bigger picture in content that strives so much to be totally optional.

[. . .]

11 hours ago, Ryusuta said:

Or hey! You've shown Wilson wearing armor with a backpack multiple times in the artwork. What if we gave a way to do that (without mods)? A real incentive that handles a problem that already exists.

This would be one of the best updates of all time if we finally get it.. that promo heart was a stab in my heart when they drew it and said it won't be a thing lol

[Mysterious box]

38 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

More time for new interactions within its contained system doesn't counter the criticism that it is too self contained.

And I'm not saying it should counter criticisms but it also doesn't automatically justify claims like x or y doesn't belong in the game also I personally don't see why these systems have to directly touch every existing aspect of the game to be "good".

[Mike23Ua]

4 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

if the new armor and weapons had some fun gimmick like with ecrown or barmor the reward would be so mich more fun

So the TL:DR is remove what makes OLD late game items so good and put it on the NEW Late Game items instead right?

[Capybara007]

17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

So the TL:DR is remove what makes OLD late game items so good and put it on the NEW Late Game items instead right?

why cant all late game items be good

good stands for having a fun gimmick, barmor's invencibility or ecrown sanity mechanics 

[Mysterious box]

8 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

why cant all late game items be good

good stands for having a fun gimmick, barmor's invencibility or ecrown sanity mechanics 

Most likely because fun is subjective and I'd imagine making tons of unique gimmicks and mechanics for every new item is quite hard even more so when most will feel it needs to be better than what came before each time when our existing gear already sets the bar quite high. At least that's my assumption though I'd love more new gimmicks as well.

1 hour ago, . . . said:

This would be one of the best updates of all time if we finally get it.. that promo heart was a stab in my heart when they drew it and said it won't be a thing lol

This just reminded me Kiel where's our spear wielding merm guards!!!

[Captain_Rage]

After people panicked when they saw the last beta update Joe wrote that all this changes will initially feel out of place and will not make total sense before all of the new content is in place. I am sure it will end up a jolly arc once everything is woven together.

[bloopah]

21 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

After people panicked when they saw the last beta update Joe wrote that all this changes will initially feel out of place and will not make total sense before all of the new content is in place. I am sure it will end up a jolly arc once everything is woven together.

Let's just hope that they know what they're doing. But in the meantime: pain, pain, decent scythe ability (that actually has been suggested by a forum member!)

[Ryusuta]

1 hour ago, Captain_Rage said:

After people panicked when they saw the last beta update Joe wrote that all this changes will initially feel out of place and will not make total sense before all of the new content is in place. I am sure it will end up a jolly arc once everything is woven together.

I know they said that, but that doesn't win any points from me. I can't judge what will maybe happen in the future, possibly. I can only judge what I have now. If this isn't the whole picture, they should either explain why we should look forward to the big picture or stop this ludicrous monthly release schedule and just work on the damned thing until it's actually finished.

And listen. If they somehow do something that makes these terrible ideas less terrible (and I legitimately don't know how they would), I will gladly give credit where it's due.

Right now, saying "No, no! It'll be good when it's finished!" feels like an easy, convenient way to defer criticism. I'll wait for it to be finished, and I WILL have an open mind about it. But if I'm being asked my opinion on a work in progress, then I'm going to give my opinion on that work in progress.

[Theukon-dos]

7 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

Right now, saying "No, no! It'll be good when it's finished!" feels like an easy, convenient way to defer criticism. I'll wait for it to be finished, and I WILL have an open mind abut it. But if I'm being asked my opinion on a work in progress, then I'm going to give my opinion on that work in progress.

Also, people said the exact same thing about the ocean when Return of Them first started. Four years later, and it still has the exact same problems that it's had sense day 1. 

[Capybara007]

12 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Also, people said the exact same thing about the ocean when Return of Them first started. Four years later, and it still has the exact same problems that it's had sense day 1. 

this

[Zeklo]

I do wonder where some people draw the line.

I have been expressing my distaste for optional content for a long time now. There's so much content in the game that you simply don't have to experience if you choose not to. In a lot of cases I very much consider DST a "win more" game. By the time you're ready to tackle these optional challenges the rewards just lightly accentuate what you were already doing. You don't need them by any means. The content is just content to consume, and the drops just minor boons.

I really don't see something like Bundling Wrap all that different from the Shadow Reaper.

When I end up killing Bee Queen, it's not like I was having any issue with food storage, y'know?
With the Shadow Set I can save like 173* hits against Toadstool, but I wasn't having issues if I killed FW anyway. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This basically goes for the entirety of the Shadow & Lunar questline (for me) too. I think only megabasers care about the drops.

I just fight them because it's stuff to fight and things to do.

[Ryusuta]

14 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

I do wonder where some people draw the line.

I have been expressing my distaste for optional content for a long time now. There's so much content in the game that you simply don't have to experience if you choose not to. In a lot of cases I very much consider DST a "win more" game. By the time you're ready to tackle these optional challenges the rewards just lightly accentuate what you were already doing. You don't need them by any means. The content is just content to consume, and the drops just minor boons.

I really don't see something like Bundling Wrap all that different from the Shadow Reaper.

When I end up killing Bee Queen, it's not like I was having any issue with food storage, y'know?
With the Shadow Set I can save like 96 hits against Toadstool, but I wasn't having issues if I killed FW anyway. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This basically goes for the entirety of the Shadow & Lunar questline (for me) too. I think only megabasers care about the drops.

I just fight them because it's stuff to fight and things to do.

I'm not a megabaser, and I do care about the drops.

The difference between the examples you listed and the new stuff is that the new stuff is designed SOLELY for the new content instead of the stuff you're already doing.

While you might not need the Bundling Wrap, it also helps with the stuff you've already been doing. You don't use the Bundling Wrap just to make the next Bee Queen fight easier.

Same with stuff like the Enlightened Crown. That item gives a fun and interesting way to do things differently and makes life more convenient. It doesn't just give you bigger numbers and call it a day.

[Dragonboooorn]

3 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

why cant all late game items be good

good stands for having a fun gimmick, barmor's invencibility or ecrown sanity mechanics 

[-Nick-]

It does not help that caves as a whole are very lacking. Caves need a whole rework with new survival content and interactions. Unique seasons etc.

Klei has a huge oppurtunity to build cave content around these rifs.

[bloopah]

Just now, Dragonboooorn said:

But scythe does more damage (albeit only with the excelsior  armor) when attacking several times in a row, up to 88 damage...

THIS IS THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT!!!! (obviously jk, but the dark sword meme is somewhat less valid now)

[Mysterious box]

17 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

I'm not a megabaser, and I do care about the drops.

The difference between the examples you listed and the new stuff is that the new stuff is designed SOLELY for the new content instead of the stuff you're already doing.

While you might not need the Bundling Wrap, it also helps with the stuff you've already been doing. You don't use the Bundling Wrap just to make the next Bee Queen fight easier.

Same with stuff like the Enlightened Crown. That item gives a fun and interesting way to do things differently and makes life more convenient. It doesn't just give you bigger numbers and call it a day.

What about the brightshade bombs,  brightshade staff, and sycthe. Different forms of aoe and harvesting I fail to see the difference.

[Zeklo]

6 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

That item gives a fun and interesting way to do things differently and makes life more convenient. It doesn't just give you bigger numbers and call it a day.

I definitely agree with the former, but the latter has been one of the biggest suggestions against the Planar System.

Plenty of vocal people were advocating for its removal in favor of just higher damage. Now we have a two weapon [combos] that can reach 76/88 damage on non-planar enemies, yet this is now "not good enough" either?

I find it difficult to understand what people actually want if they're just tossing out suggestions they don't actually believe in, because they just want an excuse to warrant the systems removal.

The umbrella I get, because it has effectively no purpose outside the problem that it comes packaged with. I also agree that the gear is a bit uninspired, but at the end of the day it's still a provides a boon to things people are already doing. I'd love if it was a bit more interesting in terms of set bonus! It just seems unfair to say these only have use in terms of the Planar System, when that is very much not the case.

[Vinja]

5 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

And that's fair but I feel like the system is more so experiencing growing pains with the community still feel like maybe it needs more time.

To me the idea of BS gear being neutered against non shadow enemies and planar defense is a fundamental flaw

[Mysterious box]

12 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

I definitely agree with the former, but the latter has been one of the biggest suggestions against the Planar System.

Plenty of vocal people were advocating for its removal in favor of just higher damage. Now we have a two weapon [combos] that can reach 76/88 damage on non-planar enemies, yet this is now "not good enough" either?

I find it difficult to understand what people actually want if they're just tossing out suggestions they don't actually believe in, because they just want an excuse to warrant the systems removal.

The umbrella I get, because it has effectively no purpose outside the problem that it comes packaged with. I also agree that the gear is a bit uninspired, but at the end of the day it's still a provides a boon to things people are already doing. I'd love if it was a bit more interesting in terms of set bonus! It just seems unfair to say these only have use in terms of the Planar System, when that is very much not the case.

Even in the umbrella scenario I have trouble understanding it to me it's like someone complaining that oars don't have some additional use outside of boats every single item doesn't need to reinvent the wheel.

1 minute ago, Vinja said:

To me the idea of BS gear being neutered against non shadow enemies and planar defense is a fundamental flaw

Honestly there's good and bad in that for me personally in a sense that it doesn't delete the need for older gear which is a gripe I often have with some games even if it's required in some areas.

[Vinja]

16 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

I definitely agree with the former, but the latter has been one of the biggest suggestions against the Planar System.

Plenty of vocal people were advocating for its removal in favor of just higher damage. Now we have a two weapon [combos] that can reach 76/88 damage on non-planar enemies, yet this is now "not good enough" either?

I find it difficult to understand what people actually want if they're just tossing out suggestions they don't actually believe in, because they just want an excuse to warrant the systems removal.

The umbrella I get, because it has effectively no purpose outside the problem that it comes packaged with. I also agree that the gear is a bit uninspired, but at the end of the day it's still a provides a boon to things people are already doing. I'd love if it was a bit more interesting in terms of set bonus! It just seems unfair to say these only have use in terms of the Planar System, when that is very much not the case.

Idk who is saying the scythe is not good enough but as someone who is vocally against the idea of planar damage/defense the scythe is a much better alternative and I actually at the moment don’t have any complaints about the scythe. Or… really any of the shadow gear. 
 

I still think the BS gear doesn’t quite live up to its potential though.

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Honestly there's good and bad in that for me personally in a sense that it doesn't delete the need for older gear which is a gripe I often have with some games even if it's required in some areas.

I mean if you think adding a new tier would just delete the need for old gear do you also have problems with dark swords? Hambats? You could say they remove the need for tentacle spikes. And what about tentacle spikes themselves? You could say they remove the need for spears. 
 

You get better gear and it replaces the old gear, that’s progression in a nutshell and takes place in practically every game ever in some form or another.

[Yuuko]

31 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Plenty of vocal people were advocating for its removal in favor of just higher damage. Now we have a two weapon [combos] that can reach 76/88 damage on non-planar enemies, yet this is now "not good enough" either?

 

Hold up - no complaints on the scythe from me.  imo its a win but the thing is - take away ALL of the planar stuff and it would still be an amazing idea.  b/c its just a good idea.  All of the planar stuff going in and around it is superfluous, it brings nothing to the table.  If that weapon were just a craftable from the darkstone set with ramping damage and the cutting ability I'd be in love with it.  Even in spite of the planar baggage I love it.

fr more like this, less like umbrella 2.0 b/c new rain that just melts anything else b/c why not lol