I don't know a nice way of saying this... Shouldn't we WANT to do new content?

[Mysterious box]

17 minutes ago, Vinja said:

mean if you think adding a new tier would just delete the need for old gear do you also have problems with dark swords? Hambats? You could say they remove the need for tentacle spikes. And what about tentacle spikes themselves? You could say they remove the need for spears. 
 

You get better gear and it replaces the old gear, that’s progression in a nutshell and takes place in practically every game ever in some form or another.

Life's full of many truths like these doesn't mean we have to like them or not prefer it were different in some way.(tdlr yes your right don't always like that it's this way though.)

[bloopah]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Life's full of many truths like these doesn't mean we have to like them or not prefer it were different in some way.(tdlr yes your right don't always like that it's this way though.)

What are you trying to say.

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, bloopah said:

What are you trying to say.

I like using old weapons please don't die godzilla.

[Theukon-dos]

42 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

I definitely agree with the former, but the latter has been one of the biggest suggestions against the Planar System.

Plenty of vocal people were advocating for its removal in favor of just higher damage. Now we have a two weapon [combos] that can reach 76/88 damage on non-planar enemies, yet this is now "not good enough" either?

I find it difficult to understand what people actually want if they're just tossing out suggestions they don't actually believe in, because they just want an excuse to warrant the systems removal.

As one of the most vocal supporters of the "just make the things deal more damage" camp, the problem is that said higher damage was supposed to replace planar damage, not exist alongside it. 

As Shosuko said, the planar mechanics themselves don't actually add anything to the table. The sole purpose of it seems to be 

1. Force players to stop using Dark Swords and Football Helmets without actually giving them better equipment.

2. Punish players for picking a character who relies on positive damage modifiers in any way, shape, or form. 

 

Admittedly, that first one I've started growing fonder of the idea of giving the new equipment special abilities instead of a flat damage boost. Like how the new scythe has ramping damage if you don't get hit (and are wearing the armor). I don't know about you, but if the brightshade sword did Dark Sword damage but could also shoot a laser, I'd drop the Dark Sword pretty damn fast. 

And then ofcourse there's issue 2. Frankly, I find the idea that the main perk of your character just suddenly shouldn't matter anymore once you reach a certain thresh hold is just kind of pathetic. Nobody, and I mean nobody was complaining about Wigfrid or Warly's damage. The problem lied with Wolfgang, and if he was breaking the game that badly, then he should have just been nerfed. And I do believe that Planar Damage was a specific attack against Wolfgang. Because I can't physically comprehend any other reason that Planar Damage should ignore your character's modifiers. 

42 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

The umbrella I get, because it has effectively no purpose outside the problem that it comes packaged with. I also agree that the gear is a bit uninspired, but at the end of the day it's still a provides a boon to things people are already doing. I'd love if it was a bit more interesting in terms of set bonus! It just seems unfair to say these only have use in terms of the Planar System, when that is very much not the case.

I mean, sure? The scythe's pretty good, I admit. But overall, it hardly seems like much of a boost relative to how much of a headache it takes to obtain everything. Same issue with the ocean. Yeah there's technically helpful things out there. But it's way more effort relative to what you're gaining from it all. 

[Ryusuta]

50 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

I definitely agree with the former, but the latter has been one of the biggest suggestions against the Planar System.

Plenty of vocal people were advocating for its removal in favor of just higher damage. Now we have a two weapon [combos] that can reach 76/88 damage on non-planar enemies, yet this is now "not good enough" either?

You misunderstand. I am against BOTH things. I am against just making bigger numbers on shiny weapons and calling it a day. And I'm also against giving enemies a damage resistance that can only be circumvented effectively with the new weapons. That's just a different flavor of making bigger numbers.

If I want bigger numbers, I'll do it right and play Disgaea. Their damage numbers are in the septillions by now. AND they have prinnies, dood.

Quote

I find it difficult to understand what people actually want if they're just tossing out suggestions they don't actually believe in, because they just want an excuse to warrant the systems removal.

I already gave actual suggestions that I stand behind. Preventing Charlie attacks and a bonus body equip slot upon completing certain objectives. I have plenty more I can offer, too! I'll rattle some off, just off the top of my head.

Have a way to recruit shadow monsters as allies... But with the catch that they still only appear when you're insane. Bam. New idea of interacting with the world in a way that changes the way you approach the game without breaking it, adding annoying penalties, or just using bigger numbers. And I literally just came up with that off the top of my head as I'm writing this.

Or hey! We have all this talk about damage numbers going up, but what about the other numbers in the game? How about an endgame boss that - when defeated - gives a one-time-use item that allows the character to buff either their HP, their Sanity, or their Hunger by like... 50. But the catch being that it can't be stacked or respec'ed without changing characters (similar to Wilson's Insight) and earning/using the item again. Again, a positive suggestion I would love to see.

Of course, then there's reworking current bad ideas. Like making Accursed Trinkets actually work the way they're shown in the trailer and only attach themselves to you if you picked one up manually. That is one hill I will 100% die on. Simple change that will immediately make the gaming experience better.

How about speeding up the drain/repair of the Dreadstone Equipment so I'm not just sitting there twiddling my thumbs after a long battle, and the sanity drain will actually feel significant on it when it's damaged?

I could keep going if you want. I am NOT one of those people that will just complain without offering suggestions. Nor am I someone that just thinks every update is bad. I was extremely vocal in talking up how fantastic the Wilson rework was when it came out, and I continue to feel it was absolute brilliance.

But again, just because I love this game and want to see it expanded upon doesn't mean I'll just latch onto anything uncritically. To the contrary, it's BECAUSE I love this game and want to see it do well that I offer what I believe to be firm, yet constructive criticism.

 

[Vinja]

5 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

You misunderstand. I am against BOTH things. I am against just making bigger numbers on shiny weapons and calling it a day. And I'm also against giving enemies a damage resistance that can only be circumvented effectively with the new weapons. That's just a different flavor of making bigger numbers.

If I want bigger numbers, I'll do it right and play Disgaea. Their damage numbers are in the septillions by now. AND they have prinnies, dood.

I already gave actual suggestions that I stand behind. Preventing Charlie attacks and a bonus body equip slot upon completing certain objectives. I have plenty more I can offer, too! I'll rattle some off, just off the top of my head.

Have a way to recruit shadow monsters as allies... But with the catch that they still only appear when you're insane. Bam. New idea of interacting with the world in a way that changes the way you approach the game without breaking it, adding annoying penalties, or just using bigger numbers. And I literally just came up with that off the top of my head as I'm writing this.

Or hey! We have all this talk about damage numbers going up, but what about the other numbers in the game? How about an endgame boss that - when defeated - gives a one-time-use item that allows the character to buff either their HP, their Sanity, or their Hunger by like... 50. But the catch being that it can't be stacked or respec'ed without changing characters (similar to Wilson's Insight) and earning/using the item again. Again, a positive suggestion I would love to see.

Of course, then there's reworking current bad ideas. Like making Accursed Trinkets actually work the way they're shown in the trailer and only attach themselves to you if you picked one up manually. That is one hill I will 100% die on. Simple change that will immediately make the gaming experience better.

How about speeding up the drain/repair of the Dreadstone Equipment so I'm not just sitting there twiddling my thumbs after a long battle, and the sanity drain will actually feel significant on it when it's damaged?

I could keep going if you want. I am NOT one of those people that will just complain without offering suggestions. Nor am I someone that just thinks every update is bad. I was extremely vocal in talking up how fantastic the Wilson rework was when it came out, and I continue to feel it was absolute brilliance.

But again, just because I love this game and want to see it expanded upon doesn't mean I'll just latch onto anything uncritically. To the contrary, it's BECAUSE I love this game and want to see it do well that I offer what I believe to be firm, yet constructive criticism.

 

Making weapons have bigger numbers is already a thing in the game and works perfectly fine. Considering how much work it is to obtain the BS/Shadow gear I think they’re worthy of properly being their own tier without relying on specific niche scenarios. Bigger numbers is perfectly fine, no one complains that the tentacle spike is just a bigger damage spear or that the dark sword is a bigger damage tentacle spike.

That being said, I think it’s also very nice to have other types of perks as well and some of your ideas you listed are genuinely interesting and could be nice. Also new types of weapons would be cool, all melee weapons are pretty much just a slight variation of the spear with various tiers of damage. Same attack speed and everything. Would be cool for other types of melee weapons or a mid tier whip that could make whips more than a super niche choice for non wandas. 
 

Anyway, point it, new tiers of weapons and new types of cool perks and rewards beyond bigger numbers can both be really great additions so I don’t think we need to pit it as a one or the other type of thing.

[Ryusuta]

1 minute ago, Vinja said:

Anyway, point it, new tiers of weapons and new types of cool perks and rewards beyond bigger numbers can both be really great additions so I don’t think we need to pit it as a one or the other type of thing.

All I'm saying is that right now we've more or less only been getting the former of those two things (and receiving heavy punishments for doing so). And that if I had to choose between the two options, higher damage numbers wouldn't be my choice.

[Vinja]

Just now, Ryusuta said:

All I'm saying is that right now we've more or less only been getting the former of those two things (and receiving heavy punishments for doing so). And that if I had to choose between the two options, higher damage numbers wouldn't be my choice.

That’s perfectly fair. To me the amount of work required to obtain these weapons and the sacrifice you make in activating the new rifts permanently make it a no brainer that these weapons deserve to be a new tier. But they could absolutely be more creative in the non weapon aspect and add better perks to them like you’re suggesting to truly shake things up. Would be a welcome addition in my opinion.