Ocean Feedback Thread

[ButterStuffed]

5 hours ago, YouKnowWho said:

The rarer and more difficult catches like Catfish and Dandy Lionfish are usually much more effort than they're worth. You're generally better off reeling in the hoards of deep bass as they give the same amount of meat while practically jumping onto your boat. Their higher cosmetic weight isn't quite special either, as the common seaside Wobster can just as net you the top spot at the Scale-O-Matic.

Some have suggested how much meat they drop should be based off of their weight, but I feel this wouldn't work. There isn't any real way to prioritize heavier fish besides the heavy weight lure, and making it become the only lure ever worth using would makes things pretty boring.

so instead I think a good solution would be to literally just make these rarer fish bigger

I'm not sure the exact meat amount that would make it worth trudging out for, but it'd atleast add some much needed depth to the fishing experience.

Maybe if you manage to fish up an entire school you are rewarded with something? It is hard as hell to do, might as well be worth doing it.

Catfish could be a consistent way to spawn some huge fish. (Dogfish return?)

Lionfish could cause some sunken ship treasure to rise to the surface or something.

[lowercase skye]

1 hour ago, ButterStuffed said:

Maybe if you manage to fish up an entire school you are rewarded with something? It is hard as hell to do, might as well be worth doing it.

Is it? With a stupefying lure, the main way I fish is by fishing up entire schools of fish to make way for more to spawn. So long as its not like, dandy lionfish, it's really easy, it's just catching a fish a bunch of times in a row with the right gear.

[ButterStuffed]

5 hours ago, sylvia wander o said:

Is it? With a stupefying lure, the main way I fish is by fishing up entire schools of fish to make way for more to spawn. So long as its not like, dandy lionfish, it's really easy, it's just catching a fish a bunch of times in a row with the right gear.

I was referring to lionfish and catfish, so yes.

[Gotheran]

Just throwing this out there since i've been fixated on summer mechanics, boats and objects on the ocean simply shouldn't burn from wildfires, still vulnerable to other fire sources sure so the boat pump thing still technically has a use but not like go away for a season only to find a floating pile of ash in place of your boat.

Its sitting in the water afterall. Which reminds me, why aren't some ocean creatures considered always wet, Crab King for example?

[Just Mactusk]

anyone know how to find hunts? I have massive trouble finding them and winter is almost over, I need to do pearl quest before its over

[Valase]

5 hours ago, Good Ol Mactusk said:

anyone know how to find hunts? I have massive trouble finding them and winter is almost over, I need to do pearl quest before its over

I do believe that the Dapper vest works for the quest too,.

[Just Mactusk]

thank you but sadly its a bit late, I make use of it next winter tho0

I must admit tho, fishing really sucks

[Mike23Ua]

You know what might be a cool addition to boats? (Which technically also qualifies as Ocean Content) 

A Storage Deck, like if you’ve ever watched any pirate movie ever there’s this big metal grate thing over the top of the boat, to store cargo, or prisoners within etc.. 

It would be so cool if Boats could be turned into a “Storage Chest” if you can place your loots down inside a storage deck (similar to tin fish bin but for more than just fish) it could even put a cute little grate on your boat to indicate it has a Storage Bay like this:

The TL:DR- it would make boats like moving storage chests, with maybe enough inventory slots to cover 3-4 storage chests worth. (Would require gathering 3-4 storage chests worth of crafting materials to make though to balance it out)

The Less time I spend going back to base where all my stuff is, and the less clutter on the deck of my boat, the more enjoyable ocean content & boating in general is going to be.

[bloopah]

5 hours ago, Good Ol Mactusk said:

I must admit tho, fishing really sucks

Eh, fishing itself gets alright as soon as you obtain the Stupefying Lure. But the payoff is really terrible compared to pond fishing.

[Theukon-dos]

Damn, Tears of the Kingdom out here making me miss a thread practically made for me for a whole week. Well, atleast it's still active, which I think says a lot about the current ocean.

 

As it stands, the main problem with the ocean is simple. It exists besides the game's content rather than within it. All of the content on the ocean either helps with the ocean, or is only a side-grade to mainland content. All of the "best" options before RoT where still the best options afterwards, with very few exceptions. The ocean's food is; at best; on par with the mainlands, but otherwise doesn't do anything special to make it worth pursuing (Can someone please explain to me why fig stuffed trunks loose hunger when cooked, but Tall Scotch eggs are allowed to have the same healing, a whopping 150 hunger, and spoil slower than the trunk?). Salt boxes are slightly useful, but being much more expensive than fridges while also only being able to hold uncooked food stuffs makes them largely impractical. Above-average trees are great, but limited to the edge of a landmass and/or ocean base. And the Moon Quey; while incredibly useful; is also an abolute [Female Dog] to find. 

 

Ultimately, Don't Starve together; like many other games; is about "Problems" and "Solutions". But all the problems that the game has already have solutions, and have had them for years at this point. This means that new content has to be either a mere novelty, or has to solve a new problem that the devs introduce. Which could work, but every time someone brings up the idea of making the existing game slightly harder, it's immediately countered by legions of players shouting "Think of the children! new players!" Which is fair, because Don't Starve as of writing this is very new player un-friendly. This means that those problems have to also be tied with the ocean. But if the main appeal of ocean content is solving problems that the player will only encounter on the ocean, then why go to the ocean at all?

 

So, really. I think the only way to "fix" the ocean is by "breaking" everything else. Add new problems that the ocean solves, or remove existing solutions to replace them with seabound ones. 

     I think Summer would be a good canidate to test the waters (pun intended) with this concept. It's largely disliked by most in the community; atleast on here. It doesn't have much going on, meaning room to grow. And because DST removed the random chance for spring starts, then we can assume that anyone who manages to reach the summer has enough of a grasp on the game to work through it. After all, they made it through 3 seasons, why not four?

     Remove the Eyebrella's summer insulation and give it to a new hat you get from the ocean. Make it so that the player can overheat in caves so they can't just bugger off the entire time. Buff above-average trees to make them the de-facto way to prevent wildfires while Ice Fling-o-matics serve as a cheaper/faster option instead. Those sorts of changes are what the ocean needs. No doubt 'bout it.

[GenomeSquirrel]

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

This means that new content has to be either a mere novelty.

Do not underestimate novelty, it is the primary concern of anyone playing a game, I can already duplicate idling under a tree in real life, I'm not playing a game to seek that out.

[Mike23Ua]

What if sailing was made more like the old days of civilization? Where people would build homes somewhere but eventually nature reclaimed the area forcing them to move on to some place else.

Im not saying to “Destroy the whole world..” But- Making it very Very undesirable to stay on the mainland for at least a weather season wouldn’t hurt.

Maybe the mainland becomes over taken by poisonous gas that doesn’t harm structures, or kill mobs, but forces the player out to sea or to other islands for an entire season.

maybe for an entire season a very harsh blizzard could blow in that if the player stays on the main island causes extreme cold, massively impaired vision and drastically reduced movement speeds.

Just something that heavily encourages leaving your comfort zone of the main island & going elsewhere where it’s temporarily more comfortable.

Summer heavily encourages Caves exploration for example.. so do the same to get players on the ocean!

besides the very start of the return of them updates promised this:

being able to travel to new “lands” with new biomes, creatures & more.

Klei has lived up to that promise, by adding new areas like the Lunar Grotto, or Lunar Island, the last new land we got was Moon Quay over 9 months ago. And it was so tiny with very little to actually do on it..

I can’t be the only one who was expecting 3 or 4 more islands with as much content as Lunar Island can I?? 

I want a reason to NEED to set sail to new areas, not something I can optionally go do in my spare time.

[Brago-sama]

They could totally make summer the "stay in the ocean" season so easily by making stuff not burn out at sea

Just have some just barely beleivable excuse like the heat is evaporating the water making it misty and have no smolders happen. Could even be a new biome

[ShadowDuelist]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

What if sailing was made more like the old days of civilization? Where people would build homes somewhere but eventually nature reclaimed the area forcing them to move on to some place else.

Im not saying to “Destroy the whole world..” But- Making it very Very undesirable to stay on the mainland for at least a weather season wouldn’t hurt.

 

I’ve been thinking among the same lines lately. They could re Introduce floods, or change the weather pattern in the late game. Although I know a big part of the community enjoys megabase building and getting new destructive events would be frown upon.

Another idea I’ve been thinking about is continental drifts: maybe it could be a different game mode altogether, where the biomes are technically moving islands and always slowly moving, and change patterns once a year or so, increasing the need to sail from point A to point B.
 

2 hours ago, Brago-sama said:

They could totally make summer the "stay in the ocean" season so easily by making stuff not burn out at sea

Well the waterlogged biome kinda does that, and the big trees + docks combo gives you the option to make entirely summer-proof bases at the sea (docks can be built around the trees maximizing their coverage.) 
 

But yeah adding some mist at the sea making it not only prevent wildfires but also overheat much slower would def help making the ocean slightly more attractive.

[NNOUS]

On 5/16/2023 at 12:33 AM, sudoku said:

Mainland Water

Water should be incorporated into the mainland biome with rivers, wharfs, lakes; split the mainland.

The swamp should be redesigned to incorporate water tiles, similar to the Mangrove biome in Shipwrecked.

i realy like the liliy biome in hamlet. the coloring and feel just right. hope that can be seen

 

On 5/16/2023 at 12:33 AM, sudoku said:

Sailing

the sailing mechanic is generally bad in game, any tiny scratch or bumping will result decrease of durability, one nauticpilot will disconnect if the main boat is going too fast, yet 2 magnet will result they bump to eachother when slowing the main boat, cause major leak etc. its just bad designed. 

I hope for new mechanics for sailing, like gaint fan for blowing wind or something for making the experience more manuverble, and lower the amount of rock pile in ocean. 

 

On 5/16/2023 at 12:33 AM, sudoku said:

Docks

i want to see some dock system that can magneticlly snag the boat upon arrived. make base returning more pleasant.

 

[D_Good_Fellow]

10 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Ultimately, Don't Starve together; like many other games; is about "Problems" and "Solutions". But all the problems that the game has already have solutions, and have had them for years at this point. This means that new content has to be either a mere novelty, or has to solve a new problem that the devs introduce. Which could work, but every time someone brings up the idea of making the existing game slightly harder, it's immediately countered by legions of players shouting "Think of the children! new players!" Which is fair, because Don't Starve as of writing this is very new player un-friendly. This means that those problems have to also be tied with the ocean. But if the main appeal of ocean content is solving problems that the player will only encounter on the ocean, then why go to the ocean at all?

This alone encapsulates one of the current problems with the ocean, especially for new players.

I'm something of a new player myself (sitting at 50ish hours) and I haven't touched the ocean for basically the reasons you're describing. As it stands, I can pretend that ocean/sailing isn't even in the game. The ocean offers me nothing in terms of survival. It seems like parts of it could be fun, but the rewards all help with ocean-specific tasks that I have very little concept for. None of the existing rewards appeal to me as a landlubber. That combined with what appears to be a very steep learning curve for sailing keeps pushing it back on my list of things I want to try in the game.

By comparison, the caves/ruins are a much more welcome exploration challenge. It immediately feels more hostile than the surface (as a new player the sanity drain alone was intimidating at first) but also immediately provides rewards that both help spelunking and have uses on the surface (light bulbs, gems, etc.). What's more, the overheating and wildfire protection makes the challenge of the caves a very appealing alternative in summer, by which time even new players will be prepared to try something new. There's a very natural incentive to explore the caves that I wish the ocean shared.

Seafaring should appeal to the players through main gameplay, not just be a challenging task you can choose to engage with. My understanding is that Shipwrecked accomplished this by, well, shipwrecking you. Since the islands were relatively small compared to a DS/DST mainland, the player would be incentivized to set sail to discover more to do. Sailing functioned as a liberating feature for the player who would otherwise be stranded on their starting island. Since the DST mainland offers most everything a player would want for survival, setting sail feels more like an assigned task than an exciting new ability. I doubt Shipwrecked's method can be easily replicated in DST, since giving us limited islands would interfere with all sorts of other existing features, but I think the psychology of it is worth noting.

[Theukon-dos]

9 hours ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

Do not underestimate novelty, it is the primary concern of anyone playing a game, I can already duplicate idling under a tree in real life, I'm not playing a game to seek that out.

Yes, but Novelty isn't sustainable. It's inevitably bound to wear off once the player engages with it enough. If the ruins where mere novelty instead of having some of the best equipment in the game, then players with 17,000 hours wouldn't be starting most worlds with a ruins rush. If they even touched it at all.

[Creatorofswamps]

On 5/17/2023 at 7:37 PM, zVince said:

I think the ocean in Don't Starve Together is still very unfinished. I feel it lacks life, vegetation, and mechanics. There's still a lot missing to make the experience enjoyable

This is a very good solution , the ocean does not seem as alive as in a Shipwreck, there is not enough of such an atmosphere , there is not enough storm and waves . The ocean is usually only stormy in the ryal life. It seems to me that a strong wind should appear accidentally causing more waves, strong storms will happen in the rain and gain strength in the spring, after a storm on the shore, shells, their fragments, kelp, cans, as well as fish and other things from the ocean may be drowned.

[Mysterious box]

11 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Which is fair, because Don't Starve as of writing this is very new player un-friendly.

I'd argue that the only new player unfriendly thing about dst is the fact it explains nothing to you and doesn't give you a way to learn a lot of things in game on your own which admittedly is a very big hurtle.

That being said realistically the only way the ocean is going to be valued to is to either give some absurdly overpowered loot (hopefully not) or the more practical but likely more unpopular solution nerfing the main island across the board and replacing the lost value by spreading the gains to ocean and cave content to encourage exploration. By that I mean food, armor, weapons, and resources. For example dropping football helms protection to 70% but raising cookie cutter caps to 80-85 percent and so on. I agree we're more or less in a situation where the forums would implode if such changes were made though.

[Yuuko]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Im not saying to “Destroy the whole world..” But- Making it very Very undesirable to stay on the mainland for at least a weather season wouldn’t hurt.

 

I don't think we need to be chased off the land with a hammer lol  The oceans have problems, and just making land life worse doesn't change that.

We need better vision and lighting, steering and anchoring, and resource production.  If we had these I think Ocean would be a lot better.

Most simple solutions:

Make the deck illuminator include a beam of light that extends out in the direction the sail is aiming so we can actually see out on the water.

Improved steering / anchoring cartables or make the rudder rotate sails (really dumb that this doesn't)

Remove collision from non-wall structures on boats

Spy glass to view 2-3x screens distance away to help scouting for things

Increase the yield from ocean debris to 3-5 items + add rocks / flint / gold to the loot table.

Bring back the supreme cutlass + make the cuttershell armor actually worth using on its own.

Do all this and the ocean can just receive more cool / challenging content without needing to drag ppl out there.

tbh kinda frustrating Klei is ditching the ocean to go off on this lunar war BS arc leaving it all half finished...  I thought rwys was one of their best updates because it revitalized stuff we already had, bringing old systems into the new year.  Wish they kept on that course just improving and fixing what's already in the game before they try to tack on new garbo.

[Mike23Ua]

3 hours ago, Shosuko said:

I don't think we need to be chased off the land with a hammer lol  The oceans have problems, and just making land life worse doesn't change that.

We need better vision and lighting, steering and anchoring, and resource production.  If we had these I think Ocean would be a lot better.

Most simple solutions:

Make the deck illuminator include a beam of light that extends out in the direction the sail is aiming so we can actually see out on the water.

Improved steering / anchoring cartables or make the rudder rotate sails (really dumb that this doesn't)

Remove collision from non-wall structures on boats

Spy glass to view 2-3x screens distance away to help scouting for things

Increase the yield from ocean debris to 3-5 items + add rocks / flint / gold to the loot table.

Bring back the supreme cutlass + make the cuttershell armor actually worth using on its own.

Do all this and the ocean can just receive more cool / challenging content without needing to drag ppl out there.

tbh kinda frustrating Klei is ditching the ocean to go off on this lunar war BS arc leaving it all half finished...  I thought rwys was one of their best updates because it revitalized stuff we already had, bringing old systems into the new year.  Wish they kept on that course just improving and fixing what's already in the game before they try to tack on new garbo.

All of these suggestions are only to help improve things that suck about boating, but they don’t improve the chances players are going to use a boat, it merely improves upon some of the less desirable aspects of it. 

Meanwhile: I want something that’s going to make basing somewhere else a more desirable choice at least for a limited time. I once had an army of Spider Queens overtake my base in a forest I had no choice but to abandon and come back to later. This to me was FUN because instead of being able to get back to base where all my food and stuffs was stored, I had to go elsewhere and base for a bit before I could return and deal with my overgrown infestation.

Ocean Content could be more like this, force the player out of their bases for a bit to get out on the waters and sail to new areas.

And I can come up with a bunch of crazy suggestions that would make abandoning the area a more desirable choice then sticking around.

let’s pretend for a second somewhere out on the waters Klei adds a main land sized island that’s turf is moon quay sand, with moon quay palm trees, but during a certain season this entire area becomes like an Egyptian village in the desert being overtaken by sand.

It gets the player to abandon what they’re familiar with and to go explore the unknown. (Even if currently there’s not much out there to explore)

We could get a lush Amazonian forest that tall grass will grow in size during its lush season imparting the players vision of where their character or enemy mobs are in all the jungle brush.. this would easily clue the player in on abandoning the area till “Dry” Season, where that forest will be in its least bloom, allowing you to explore the area more conveniently- I mean sure I guess you could build a bunch of machetes and hack your way through during lush season, but you’d fair out better leaving the island and returning back to it later.

I want a reason to NEED to go sailing, to NEED to leave my comfort zone that is Base, give me places to explore and resources I can gather that are worth going out to sea to get sure.. but until you force the player out to sea they’ll only go out gather what they want in a completely optional sea trip & then return home where everything remains the same as it always has.

Maybe there can be an area out at sea that is slam full of Brightshades, an inaccessible island that you simply can’t get onto at all without dying a horrible miserable death, or until lunar rifts start moving those Brightshades off that island (spawning they exactly as the game does now but when they come through the Rift.. they’re removed from the Island they’re protecting.) eventually after enough of the Brightshades abandon the Island they’re blocking off the otherwise inaccessible area begins to open up for exploration.

Basically what I’m saying is Land Content & Ocean Content need to work in tandem with one another- Otherwise… Ocean Content will always and forever remain to be completely optional.

[Yuuko]

48 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

All of these suggestions are only to help improve things that suck about boating

The only reason I don't boat is because of the things that suck about it.

If we have archipelago world gen, upgraded navigation, better vision / lighting, and resource gathering I'd live on a boat.  So would others.

Saying its an "uNcOmPrOmIsInG sUrViVaL gAmE" and talking about just blowing everything up randomly doesn't make a good game.

[Mike23Ua]

Maybe your right, but neither does just being able to sit in your base with items or crafted structures that let you avoid ever needing to leave your base.

[Theukon-dos]

6 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I'd argue that the only new player unfriendly thing about dst is the fact it explains nothing to you and doesn't give you a way to learn a lot of things in game on your own which admittedly is a very big hurtle.

~~Snip~~

"The only thing new player unfriendly about DTS is how it does nothing to help the player and makes it hard as basalt to actually figure anything out"

 

Yeah I think you're just proving my point here lad.

[Yuuko]

9 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Maybe your right, but neither does just being able to sit in your base with items or crafted structures that let you avoid ever needing to leave your base.

Who do you think is just sitting around in their base all day without leaving?

I feel your perspective of other players is extremely skewed.  Like you feel you're the only one playing the game "right" or something.  Almost every post lately is some hate slinging on the "lazy casuals" that are megabasers.  Give it a rest dude, I get it - YOU want a game where everything just randomly blows up and kills you, that's great for YOU to want that.  Make a mod or something lol.