Are DLC characters canon?

[lowercase skye]

34 minutes ago, BezKa said:

When you look at the newhome announcement thread though, it's worded pretty explicitly that Klei have literally nothing to do with the making of this game. They don't do art, or music, or programming, or ads- neither story or anything. They just let them use the IP.

I really doubt something like this would be canon.

It being by different writers doesn't make it non-canon. To make an example here: different episodes of a TV show are written by several different people, who often don't overlap. This doesn't mean that some episodes just don't exist within the show's canon, even if certain episodes may not necessarily be referenced or alluded to in future episodes, and one writer might prefer referencing their own work over others. Some shows, particularly cartoons, might even get other media like comics with entirely distinct writers from the show, too, and such things are still largely going to be considered canon so long as they don't directly contradict the show.

In this same way, Newhome's writers being different from DST's doesn't make the game non-canon. Even if it's unlikely the regular Klei writers will ever acknowledge it or incorporate its story elements, these sorts of things are just canon by default. The Newhome writers seemingly planned around such a constraint, though, it's nicely tucked away between DS and DST (in the brief time Wilson was on the throne) so that it doesn't set up a ton of lore that's instantly ignored/contradicted by DST's own writers.

[BezKa]

20 minutes ago, sylvia wander o said:

writers

By that logic every fanfic ever is canon. Because some things overlap and are referenced, some more than the others!

Sorry but no. Different writers for a show still write for the same show. Newhome in the meantime is a spin off at most, which automatically makes it not canon. It uses a lot of elements from original series (like Forge items in the overworld lmao) contradicts the known lore and creates a sort of parallel universe that has next to nothing to do with the main series. Just like Equestria Girls is not canon to My Little Pony, except they reference each other as Easter eggs, so arguably more "canon" than newhome and DST.

 

[lowercase skye]

59 minutes ago, BezKa said:

By that logic every fanfic ever is canon. Because some things overlap and are referenced, some more than the others!

surely you can see the difference between a piece of fanfiction and an official installment in a series...?

[Primalflower]

1 hour ago, BezKa said:

By that logic every fanfic ever is canon. Because some things overlap and are referenced, some more than the others!

come onnn, don't be like this :/  This begs for me to instantly point out a small little caveat within sylvia's original statement, in that, yea, the product needs to be endorsed somehow by the larger franchise as a whole, (which is the case for newhome, if i need to say that) not just some random person making works on their own, but this should really go without saying, and i feel like you should know that : ( i'm not trying to be mean, i just, don't want this part of the statement to scrutinized in this way because it shouldn't have to be.

1 hour ago, BezKa said:

Sorry but no. Different writers for a show still write for the same show. Newhome in the meantime is a spin off at most, which automatically makes it not canon. It uses a lot of elements from original series (like Forge items in the overworld lmao) contradicts the known lore and creates a sort of parallel universe that has next to nothing to do with the main series. Just like Equestria Girls is not canon to My Little Pony, except they reference each other as Easter eggs, so arguably more "canon" than newhome and DST.

something being a spinoff doesn't make it automatically non-canon to whatever its deriving itself from. hey! PIKMIN is still canon, by default, even if its a spinoff of the series that its coming from. It does the same things that newhome does in that it sets itself up in a point in time that hasn't been dealt with in specifics yet and puts itself in a part of the world that hasn't been explored by any other, which makes it a lot harder to contradict with existing lore. Hell, binding of isaac: repentance, from what i can really understand, shares practically none of the same developers as the other parts of binding of isaac, likely shares very little of what might've been the original direction for the story all those years ago when rebirth first came out, but its still definitely canon!

[Szczuku]

All singleplayer DLCs are canon

All characters are canon, whether or not they are important to the storyline is another thing

Forge and Gorge are canon

Newhome isn't canon cuz it's garbage and making it canon would effectively tarnish ds/t and Klei's reputation lol

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, sylvia wander o said:

surely you can see the difference between a piece of fanfiction and an official installment in a series...?

It’s hard to call something Canon, even if it IS an Official installment in a *Franchise* not series.

Series = a Continuation of the same thing…

Franchise = shared characters and likeness but doesn’t even have to connect to previous entries in any way beyond that.

and I believe this is where your getting highly confused.

Super Mario Bros 1,2,3 that’s a Series.. Mario Kart 1-8 that’s a Series.

But Trying to tell me Mario Kart has any Connection to Mario 64 or Mario Tennis & Mario Golf??? (Aside from the obvious shared characters) Get outta here with that idea lol.

YOU may feel NewHome is Canon because it fits somewhere Snuggly between DS & the start of DST- but it’s not actually canon because for 1- It isn’t written by Klei, and 2- because it’s not written by Klei it’s content and characters Contradict DST: Both what’s already IN DST and what Klei plans to add later.

NewHome has a bunch of mobs that if it WERE an official Canon entry: Would be in DST.

Because it would go like this: DS (1) NewHome (1.5) DST (2)

But also, I fail to see how NewHome has any connection with the ops original question, so can we please get back on topic before Mr JoeW chugs his morning coffee (or whatever he drinks) and starts issuing out the off-topic warnings? 

Oh yeah.. one more ON TOPIC thing about NewHome: IF NewHome was considered Canon, (which it’s not.. but if it WAS) and it’s supposed to canonically fit between the events of DS & DST- Then if they add ANY of the Newer Content from DST (such as the new DST DLC Characters) then it is taking content that didn’t exist within its alleged “Canonical plot point” and automatically contradicting its own existence.

 

[BezKa]

3 hours ago, sylvia wander o said:

surely you can see the difference between a piece of fanfiction and an official installment in a series...?

Of course I do. It was just to point out the problem with your argument.

 

3 hours ago, Primalflower said:

Snip

I don't know why you're upset at the fanfiction part.

I know nothing about the games you've mentioned, so I can't be the judge. But newhome is made by completely different people, on a completely different premise, and targeting a slightly different playerbase and platform. Also it's made by Tencent, immediately banishing it into depths of hell.

Iirc Klei mentioned newhome once, when they announced it, said they have nothing to do with it except owning the IP, and never again. If I had a spinoff for my game I considered canon, I'd at least reference it in the main series if I updated it. Forge, Gorge, single player DLC, all are mentioned in DST in some form, but many people don't even know newhome exists (good).

When something is that far removed from it's source, it needs a confirmation from creators it still is considered part of the series.

Even more, I remember reading something on the forums that technically DST isn't canon to DS either! I won't find it because I don't even know where to look.

 

[l0rdgumby]

6 hours ago, BezKa said:

I was pretty sure I remembered JoeW mentioning how it's not canon as a response to someone, but I get fake memories all the time.

When you look at the newhome announcement thread though, it's worded pretty explicitly that Klei have literally nothing to do with the making of this game. They don't do art, or music, or programming, or ads- neither story or anything.

Though obviously the Newhome team has been independent from Klei, I thought it would be fun to point out that Joe said they helped them develop the art style! The early stuff resembled the game's art style more closely when it was initially showed to them. 

I've also been loosely following development and I haven't heard the game being canon or not mentioned in an official capacity. It could be, but it also couldn't. I dunno! The game hasn't released yet! It's been over 1,000 days since the trailer launched which I think is crazy. It's been that long!

[gamehun20]

13 minutes ago, l0rdgumby said:

It's been over 1,000 days since the trailer launched

It's been quite a while since they last posted anything on twitter and their website has been down for a while i doubt it's coming

[Creatorofswamps]

Yes

[Neu7ral]

Everything but Wurt is canon, source?

My thoughts, 3 seconds ago.

[BezKa]

2 hours ago, l0rdgumby said:

Joe said they helped them develop the art

That's fun, I wonder how much help they got- I know they were given a ton of concept art as a guide, the forums were brimming with the file dug stuff.

[Creatorofswamps]

5 hours ago, Neu7ral said:

Everything but Wurt is canon, source?

Wurt is definitely a canon

[MrKoopa]

From what I remember dlc characters are canon but the story mainly involves the non dlc characters with them(the dlc characters) appearing from time to time.

[lowercase skye]

11 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Newhome isn't canon cuz it's garbage and making it canon would effectively tarnish ds/t and Klei's reputation lol

8 hours ago, BezKa said:

 Also it's made by Tencent, immediately banishing it into depths of hell.

Again, this isn't how media works. "I don't like it because booo tencent booooo I don't LIKE newhome boo" is not a valid reason to deem something non-canon. I don't know how to explain this concept, which sucks because it seems to be the underlying argument to all of this :/ With the examples that Primal Flower gave above, I would say I hate many of the developers of Isaac: Repentance due to very questionable actions they've done in the past, but it would be petty of me to say the events of its story didn't happen because of that personal opinion.

11 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Super Mario Bros 1,2,3 that’s a Series.. Mario Kart 1-8 that’s a Series.

But Trying to tell me Mario Kart has any Connection to Mario 64 or Mario Tennis & Mario Golf??? (Aside from the obvious shared characters) Get outta here with that idea lol.

I get what you're saying but this example doesn't work when like, Mario Kart is probably one of the spin-offs that gets referenced the MOST. It's been a character trait of Luigi in Paper Mario since 2004 that he loves kart racing, his kart has appeared twice, Rainbow Road made an appearance in Color Splash along with the characters driving down it and observing that Lakitu isn't around if they were to fall off. In the same game, after Bowser is broken out of a spell, his first instinct upon seeing Mario is asking if he had forgotten some kart-racing plans. Mario's a really goofy series with a loose canon, but I'd say this particular example shows a misunderstanding of the concept.

Either way, I think the idea of Newhome being as distant from DS as Super Mario Bros 1 and Mario Kart are is absurd. Newhome, from what gameplay we've seen, is Don't Starve's usual gameplay condensed and simply placed in a different environment. SMB on the other hand is a 2D platformer where you jump on Goombas and Mario Kart is a 3D racing game where you try to get first place.

8 hours ago, BezKa said:

Of course I do. It was just to point out the problem with your argument.

The problem with my argument being... that officially licensed pieces of media approved by Klei are still canon? Which... somehow means that UNOFFICIAL pieces of fanfiction are also canon despite not fitting that argument...? This feels like just trying to take my examples in the worst interpretation possible to own me to death :/

[abrocator]

Showing my age but: if you play on Steam then the whole game is downloadable content.

Specifically costs-money stuff: Yeah I don’t see why they wouldn’t be.

[BezKa]

11 minutes ago, sylvia wander o said:

is not a valid reason to deem something non-canon.

That's why I have other reasons. My disappointment in Klei's choice of work partners is just an addition, but not the deciding factor.

12 minutes ago, sylvia wander o said:

The problem with my argument being... that officially licensed pieces of media approved by Klei are still canon?

You literally said "If someone wrote about it, it's canon". I was just picking words, I know what you meant. Sorry, I should have just ignored it and got to the point.

I think it's safe to say we're at the point where only Klei saying "It's canon/it's not canon" will solve our dispute, since neither of our arguments can convince the other. That's perfectly fine, it's rare to change someone's mind, especially on the internet. Sorry for being annoying along the way, thanks for talking with me.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, sylvia wander o said:

Again, this isn't how media works.

So let me ask you a question, currently right now on Cartoon Network (or wherever else you can watch it..) there’s a goofy poorly drawn version of Ben 10 that looks absolute ridiculous & has Ben Tennyson (the main hero of the show) depicted as a young 10 yr old kid- however… prior to this New Ben 10- there was The original excellently drawn Ben 10 with a great story that has a conclusion that then launched a new series called Ben 10 Alien Force (which shows the cast as being more grown up 16-18 and able to drive cars) Is the NEW Ben10 still considered Canon to that original series?

No.. No it’s not.

Just like how if NewHome added any of the mobs or playable characters Klei has added to DST after the events of DS, would not be canon either because: if NewHome is intended to fit inbetween DS & DST: Then EVERYTHING in NewHome would already BE in DST, and everything being added into DST after Wilson’s Reign: Couldn’t exist in NewHome because then the game would be contradicting it’s entire existence.

Gameplay Wise: The Terrarium is now in the Constant and has its own permanent set piece (you can toggle it OFF, but it’s toggled ON by Default.. which Implies that even Wortox going to another dimension and stealing another games thingy and bringing it back to the realm of DST is 100% Canon) now.. had the Terrarium been like the Non-Canon In Game limited time seasonal events (WintersFeast, Hallowed Nights, Midsummers Cawnival, Year of the X..) Then it wouldn’t be considered as Canon, but since it’s not toggled to OFF by default (with the option to toggle it ON same as the above mentioned seasonal shenanigans) there is a great debate to be had on rather or not Wortox is Canon to the games story.

Same with Wurt who is literally just a Merm.

Now PERSONALLY I like to think that Wortox (prior to becoming Wortox & looking all cute as a Fawn..) And Wurt (Cute little Not so scary Merm girl who’s just trying to grow & learn..) are BOTH creations of “Charlie” after she takes her spot upon the Nightmare Throne-

This would explain why they both looked Cute & Girly, and the once Scary Merms now had a cute little adorable Merm girl to convince you “Mermfolk not so scary Florp”

And I can further back this evidence up by stating that “Charlie” has a clear presence within the world “Altering” the constant- because in DST you see Roses on the ground, or rose vines coiling up Maxwells Statues to overtake them.. so it’s clear that Charlie has some control over what’s created in the constant.

Further backed by Maxwell stating that Tallbirds creation was a Failed Experiment.. 

If my theory is correct then this would mean that the “Constant or Constants* rather..” is molded by/molded after Whoever is currently occupying its throne- which would mean that the world and its inhabitants would change in looks/behaviors based upon Who is occupying the Nightmare Throne.

Which would canonically place Wurt & Wortox under Charlie’s Reign, and Therefore- Couldn’t exist in the prequel that is Wilson’s Reign in NewHome-

Further more- since Maxwells creations still exist within the constant, and Charlie’s Creations are now taking it over: DST would have to have some clear “Evidence” of Wilson’s Reign still lingering within the world (mobs or biomes he knowingly or even unknowingly created during his time..) before NewHome could ever seriously be considered as Canon entry.

[-Variant]

11 hours ago, BezKa said:

Also it's made by Tencent, immediately banishing it into depths of hell

I've got my own personal strong feelings against Newhome, but I hate to break it to you, but it's not!
It's being published by Tencent in the same sense DST was when it was in beta.
Shegqu are the people who are developing it. Not Tencent.

[Ulisesvolador]

27 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Just like how if NewHome added any of the mobs or playable characters Klei has added to DST after the events of DS, would not be canon either because: if NewHome is intended to fit inbetween DS & DST: Then EVERYTHING in NewHome would already BE in DST, and everything being added into DST after Wilson’s Reign: Couldn’t exist in NewHome because then the game would be contradicting it’s entire existence.

I don't think this is a good argument, as someone shared above, Klei only helped in developing the art for Newhome, therefore Klei might not know what features/changes/lore they will add to Newhome so they can't add anything that retcons it in DST, I suggest that we should wait until Newhome official launch (if that ever happens) and see if Klei retcons it (I mean... the game is not even out and we don't have much information... being canon or not right now doesn't change much if anything).

[Eughstein]

On 3/29/2023 at 12:20 AM, ShadowDuelist said:

I think they are canon, just not very important to the main arcs.

i mean tbf we have characters like Walter who in non DLC and isn't very important to main arcs either

[Masked Koopa]

Klei can't ya'll weigh in on this

[flamboyant wolf]

3 hours ago, Eughstein said:

i mean tbf we have characters like Walter who in non DLC and isn't very important to main arcs either

tbh, half of the characters don't seem that important outside of their initial deal with Maxwell (or whatever else way they got in), at least yet:Woodie, Webber, Wolfgang etc. 

[Eughstein]

4 minutes ago, skile said:

tbh, half of the characters don't seem that important outside of their initial deal with Maxwell (or whatever else way they got in), at least yet:Woodie, Webber, Wolfgang etc. 

at the end of Don't Starve Woodie will scream "IT'S WOODING TIME" and will Wood over the place

[jrthekidRS]

Why is everyone else trying to decide if game is canon eventhough you all are not Klei. Instead of pointlessly arguing about whether YOU think the game is canon, everyone should look for an official statement from Klei about whether Newhome is canon or not.