Spawn Location Nightmare Werepig

[-Variant]

Klei put him on the surface for a reason. Also his quotes mention finding a crack, I assume he's trying to get into the caves currently.

Anyhow the caves are atrocious in their current state, they're boring, empty, and string-y.
Putting him in the caves makes him Toadstool 2. No interaction what-so-ever, you go in, fight him, leave, like with most other cave based bosses.

The caves need a content overhaul badly but I don't think shoehorning him in will help.

[Mike23Ua]

6 minutes ago, -Variant said:

Klei put him on the surface for a reason. Also his quotes mention finding a crack, I assume he's trying to get into the caves currently.

Anyhow the caves are atrocious in their current state, they're boring, empty, and string-y.
Putting him in the caves makes him Toadstool 2. No interaction what-so-ever, you go in, fight him, leave, like with most other cave based bosses.

The caves need a content overhaul badly but I don't think shoehorning him in will help.

To add to this “dying” in the caves is an absolute pain in the backside, rather it’s intentional that it’s annoying, or accidental… it makes playing in caves a complete chore. Your ghost floats around in pitch black darkness most the time trying to “guess” where the correct path to get back to a touchstone/florid or anything like that is, it just feels frustrating. Something needs to be changed.. they went through all this work of “Noobifying DST” yet caves is still just as annoying as it’s ever been.

When they rework Caves Content, I hope they allow dead player ghosts to float through those invisible wall barriers.. at the very least.

[Cheggf]

26 minutes ago, -Variant said:

Also his quotes mention finding a crack, I assume he's trying to get into the caves currently.

The cave entrances are big holes that wouldn't have anything stopping him from going on. Nightmare fissures look much more like a crack, and could explain why he's like this. Just finding an open sinkhole but not going in doesn't really explain any sort of shadow influence.

[-Variant]

4 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Nightmare fissures look much more like a crack

That's what I meant with my statement, I'm under the impression he was previously down there and was dragged back to the surface away from whatever influenced him.
He's chained as is, it makes sense to me that he'd be as far away from the Ruins or main power source as possible.

[maciu67]

1 hour ago, -Variant said:

That's what I meant with my statement, I'm under the impression he was previously down there and was dragged back to the surface away from whatever influenced him.
He's chained as is, it makes sense to me that he'd be as far away from the Ruins or main power source as possible.

Even if he must be on surface he still need some kind of minibiome. When I generated new world in beta to see new thing i saw this:

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, maciu67 said:

Even if he must be on surface he still need some kind of minibiome. When I generated new world in beta to see new thing i saw this:

if they keep him in the surface they should change the selected biomes. Someone said that he can spawn in decidious, oasis dessert and others. Decidious and dessert are already revisited a lot. I think he should be in forests and rocky plains, it would fit more and would make those biomes have more presence 

[jrthekidRS]

14 hours ago, Spep said:

you can't put the Daywalker into a place with no sun.

If he was put in the caves, I feel like it would get the player curious and ask, "Shouldn't the monster called the Daywalker be on the surface? And if they were, why are they here now?" It would be more interesting than the Daywalker just randomly being on the surface. It plays more into that sense of mystery that Don't Starve is known for.

If I had to come up with a reason why the Daywalker would be underground, I would say it is because it WAS on the surface, but caused too much trouble for Charlie. So, she banished it to the darkest corner of the caves, trapped by dreadstone, the strongest material known. And if it was ever freed, the Daywalker would be distracted by some nightmare creatures to buy time until Charlie could come back.

But this poses more questions: "What did the Daywalker do?" "Why did Charlie hate its actions?" "What are the origins of the Daywalker?" "If she's the queen of The Constant, why didn't she use her powers to fully get rid of the Daywalker?" "Why is there a giant werepig?"

Some of these questions don't need the Daywalker to be underground, but you get my point.

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

To add to this “dying” in the caves is an absolute pain in the backside, rather it’s intentional that it’s annoying, or accidental… it makes playing in caves a complete chore.

It is a good idea to put a meat effigy in the caves. It is one click to resurrect at a location of your choice.

[Vinja]

5 hours ago, Cheggf said:

The only place that doesn't get any daylight is the ruins. Grassy, muddy, & swampy all get light. And why are you guys so hung up on his prefab name that you can't even see in-game?

Why are you so hung up on his pink markings that you can’t accept the better gameplay design and implications of him being available on the surface rather than the caves?

[Cheggf]

3 hours ago, Vinja said:

Why are you so hung up on his pink markings that you can’t accept the better gameplay design and implications of him being available on the surface rather than the caves?

Can you show me where I said he should be in the caves because of his visible pink markings which you can plainly see

[00petar00]

So the reasoning people use to not have him in the caves is that they are bad, but if they don't get any improvements or bosses added you won't have any reason to visit them and there won't be any improvement.

Another argument used on why he shouldn't be in the caves is "the loot sucks!", the body armor is quite good, helmet is a bit bad when compared to thulecite crown and  how easily it is to amass thulecite but that's really not a good reason as this is still beta and klei can make changes but even if there aren't any changes it is still decent.

Don't get me started on the prefab name, that doesn't really matter and can easily be changed.

Overall there's not good enough reason to have him on the surface except that he is easier to access but you still need pick/axe from ruins and he will also spawn and just block things as we already have so many setpieces on the surface that may block the areas you want to build in and thematically he doesn't fit the surface.

I for one don't even like that loot stash has so many spawn points even when it is limited to two biomes but this boss doesn't even have a limit on biome.

How many more bosses do you want to be on the surface? Do you realize that the space is limited and while caves are sparsely populated the surface isn't. Any setpiece that is added to the surface like loot stash or this new boss just makes it annoying to deal with and even a setpiece that doesn't move just limits your buiilding area.

[ThymeSpirit]

28 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Don't get me started on the prefab name, that doesn't really matter and can easily be changed.

You got it all backwards here. The prefab name itself is not the reason to put him on the surface. The name is just hinting at Klei's intent for him to be on the surface according to their lore for him. Therefore, telling them to put him in the caves is telling them to change the lore. Unless of course we misunderstood their intentions, but we won't know anything for sure until the animated short comes out.

[00petar00]

21 minutes ago, ThymeSpirit said:

You got it all backwards here. The prefab name itself is not the reason to put him on the surface. The name is just hinting at Klei's intent for him to be on the surface according to their lore for him. Therefore, telling them to put him in the caves is telling them to change the lore. Unless of course we misunderstood their intentions, but we won't know anything for sure until the animated short comes out.

Gameplay is the most important aspect of any game and only select few players care to know enough about lore. That's not good enough reason for him to be on the surface when considering the other problems that come with that.

How many players have complained about the story of Elden Ring yet it won game of the year award. DST isn't really played for the story/lore either.

[Antynomity]

32 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Gameplay is the most important aspect of any game and only select few players care to know enough about lore. That's not good enough reason for him to be on the surface when considering the other problems that come with that.

How many players have complained about the story of Elden Ring yet it won game of the year award. DST isn't really played for the story/lore either.

yeah plus lore wise he'd still kind of make sense, werepigs don't stay as werepigs forever by default.

Klei could also make so if you try to escape from him by going to the surface during the day because you expect a werepig to turn back since it's day or something then he follows you, and then you realize that yeah this guy ain't normal, could be a cool thing to discover for new players (or annoying depending on how you look at it) the caves are emptier than the ocean currently, the only 'fleshed out' areas in there are the ruins, atrium, and the archives.

[Memetan]

10 hours ago, -Variant said:

Putting him in the caves makes him Toadstool 2.

I REALLY HOPE it becomes Toadstool 2. Just imagine, a good reason to go to caves, his own biome, good loot. Don't make me dream, don't make me dream about it...

1 hour ago, ThymeSpirit said:

Therefore, telling them to put him in the caves is telling them to change the lore. Unless of course we misunderstood their intentions, but we won't know anything for sure until the animated short comes out.

What lore? Does it have lore? And don't take the animation as 100% this will be exactly the same in the game, because I can make a whole list of mechanics and items that we saw in the animation and never in the game.

• Btw if we take his non-canonical name ak code-name Daywalker as literally as some people here do, it should despawn at night cuz not daylight, and we should found him walking instead of chained, it sounds stupid right? Now we share the same feeling.

[ThymeSpirit]

3 hours ago, Memetan said:

What lore? Does it have lore? And don't take the animation as 100% this will be exactly the same in the game, because I can make a whole list of mechanics and items that we saw in the animation and never in the game.

Of course he has lore, do you think Klei just adds random crap to the game because why not? Animations are in general consistent with in-game stuff, but of course you could take Woodie's short and say "but he can't jump at the treeguards and chop off their heads" if you really wanted to prove your point. You can prove a lot of things if you overgeneralize and ignore logic and common sense.

3 hours ago, Memetan said:

Btw if we take his non-canonical name ak code-name Daywalker as literally as some people here do, it should despawn at night cuz not daylight, and we should found him walking instead of chained, it sounds stupid right? Now we share the same feeling.

You guys are really grasping at straws here trying to prove he should be in caves. Why not suggest a biome with unique resources instead? It would be a much better reason to go there than a boss you fight every 20 days (or once and then dupe his drops, which is much more likely what people will do because even finding toadstool with his 3 very distinct spawners is a pain).

[goblinball]

4 hours ago, Memetan said:

I REALLY HOPE it becomes Toadstool 2. Just imagine, a good reason to go to caves, his own biome, good loot. Don't make me dream, don't make me dream about it...

You’re not asking him to be toadstool 2 anymore, you’re asking for much more than that.

The surface and caves are completely different, and should be treated as such. You can’t just move content from one branch to another and expect it to magically work. Moving the daywalker to the caves accomplishes nothing other than making finding the boss more annoying. There’s a difference between adding more content to explore in the caves and hiding a boss in a random corner so that finding them is a chore because the player has to search across most of the caves until they find it. As Variant said, it’d be toadstool 2, and the caves do not need a toadstool 2. They need something else.

[00petar00]

1 hour ago, ThymeSpirit said:

Of course he has lore, do you think Klei just adds random crap to the game because why not? Animations are in general consistent with in-game stuff, but of course you could take Woodie's short and say "but he can't jump at the treeguards and chop off their heads" if you really wanted to prove your point. You can prove a lot of things if you overgeneralize and ignore logic and common sense.

You guys are really grasping at straws here trying to prove he should be in caves. Why not suggest a biome with unique resources instead? It would be a much better reason to go there than a boss you fight every 20 days (or once and then dupe his drops, which is much more likely what people will do because even finding toadstool with his 3 very distinct spawners is a pain).

You ignored my comment, the importance of lore is so miniscule when considering gameplay, especially for DST where so few players attempt to follow though the story/lore.

Surface is filled with content whether it is bosses or biomes with resources that players want and it is slowly running out of space, just look at what DST was like in beta compared to now. 

If he is moved to caves his loot table can be increased so that it is worth it and he can be locked to one biome or spawn in the same location so that you don't have to search for him every time.

15 minutes ago, goblinball said:

The surface and caves are completely different, and should be treated as such. You can’t just move content from one branch to another and expect it to magically work. Moving the daywalker to the caves accomplishes nothing other than making finding the boss more annoying. There’s a difference between adding more content to explore in the caves and hiding a boss in a random corner so that finding them is a chore because the player has to search across most of the caves until they find it. As Variant said, it’d be toadstool 2, and the caves do not need a toadstool 2. They need something else.

He doesn't need to be in a random corner, he can be on the path to ruins or archives and he can have a set spawn point, this is simple enough.

[Well-met]

if klei decided he should be on the surface, then that's where he belongs.

unless you know better than the literal devs?

[goblinball]

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

He doesn't need to be in a random corner, he can be on the path to ruins or archives and he can have a set spawn point, this is simple enough.

So you’re telling me your method of making exploring the caves more fun and engaging is… to place the daywalker in the path to the ruins? Which is… yknow, the one area that the player will already explore anyways? What’s the point in having him there?

[00petar00]

13 hours ago, Well-met said:

if klei decided he should be on the surface, then that's where he belongs.

unless you know better than the literal devs?

If that is your belief, why do you comment on so many suggestions made by players if you think that devs don't ever take anything into consideration that is posted here? There have been quite a number of changes that happened because of the forum threads that provided good feedback and almost all developers that update their game after release take in some sort of information from the players.

There are developers that never play their game, I don't think that klei developers are like that but we can assume that there is a lot of players that have much higher playtime compared to them and there is a difference in knowledge of the game's code and how the gameplay is.

8 hours ago, goblinball said:

So you’re telling me your method of making exploring the caves more fun and engaging is… to place the daywalker in the path to the ruins? Which is… yknow, the one area that the player will already explore anyways? What’s the point in having him there?

That could be a temporary solution until caves get more updates or his loot can be buffed so that it is worth exploring the caves to look for him. There is also discussion on how his loot isn't good enough so that it is worth it, this can be changed easily.

That's not the primary reason I want him in the caves, here's a number of current problems that I have.

-His theme doesn't fit most of the biomes on the surface.

-he can spawn anywhere on the map and block areas you may want to build in and its not a good argument to say that he can just be killed when there are biomes in caves that he can spawn in where he wouldn't bother anyone.

-You need pick/axe from ruins to be able to fight him.

-Area on the surface is getting more and more populated that in the next few years in the future it will feel cluttered if klei keeps adding setpieces like this and caves are lacking in content.

 

So many people that are against this boss being in caves either use name or the reason that klei already put him on the surface as an argument, no one has given a good answer to the problems I just wrote. There is only one good solution suggested, to make another small biome connected to water so that it doesn't look weird in the middle of grassland or next to pig king and even this suggestion doesn't tick all the boxes.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

13 hours ago, Well-met said:

if klei decided he should be on the surface, then that's where he belongs.

unless you know better than the literal devs?

productive comment

- Klei opens a forum for discuss their games

- Klei launch a beta so people can try new content and discuss on the forum

[Cheggf]

15 hours ago, Well-met said:

if klei decided he should be on the surface, then that's where he belongs.

unless you know better than the literal devs?

Why are you in the beta branch forums if you hate when people discuss the beta branch?

11 hours ago, goblinball said:

So you’re telling me your method of making exploring the caves more fun and engaging is… to place the daywalker in the path to the ruins? Which is… yknow, the one area that the player will already explore anyways? What’s the point in having him there?

One comment ago you wanted him on the surface because you hate looking for him. Now you want to look for him?

[ThymeSpirit]

16 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

You ignored my comment, the importance of lore is so miniscule when considering gameplay, especially for DST where so few players attempt to follow though the story/lore.

I ignored your comment about lore because I disagree with you and don't want to argue. Trying to convince you that lore is not irrelevant would take too much effort and accomplish nothing. I believe Klei knows better what's important for their game. And considering how much effort they put into puzzles, animated shorts and character quotes, I think they care about lore much more than you do.

[. . .]

i hope klei will at least add an option to disable this guy in worldgen (or even better to change where he spawn so he can spawn in caves) if they insist on keeping him on the overworld because i don't like having a random giant werepig that looks like it belongs in the ruins just randomly being in a grassy area surrounded by flowers and butterflies

[gamehun20]

I still don't understand why you people think the werepig belongs in the ruins. Just because of some purple bits on his hands? What about the marble pillars have you seen any of those in the ruins? Those are most commonly found in the overworld with many different set pieces. His spawn is limited to 4 biomes in which he can spawn.