Do you think they should get rid of the void gate glitch?

[gamehun20]

2 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

They could make the graphic short, like as tall as a fence then it fades away. Would let you know they're walls and just not showing the full thing to make it easier to see.

Wouldn't that give the idea that it's as tall as a fence and things should able to go above it?

[Cheggf]

12 minutes ago, gamehun20 said:

Wouldn't that give the idea that it's as tall as a fence and things should able to go above it?

If someone wasn't too bright I guess they could go into a cave and see the bottom of a cave wall fading out and think that the entire thing is just magical and looks weird for some reason. But most people would probably get the idea, especially once they saw that it acted like a wall. Plus they could show the top fading out as well, since it's mostly the middle bit that would be obscuring things.

[SapoLover]

I wouldn't be against fixing it, but I don't think they need to. It's something players wouldn't discover if they weren't searching it.
Anyway, I don't see the point of using it when there are few important locations in the caves, and they usually away from each other. At the end it doesn't save that much time.

[Cloakingsumo198]

What if we could use gunpowder to blow holes in this "wall" void so we could create passageways.

[Mike23Ua]

4 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

What if we could use gunpowder to blow holes in this "wall" void so we could create passageways.

I think the “wall” concept is so ancient (pun fully intended) that we need to think up a whole new concept for it.. and I for one, would really like to fill the void with Lava or even glowing spooky Nightmare fuel purple smog or anything that glows and gives off just a “tiny” bit of light..

Building bridges over the void or more importantly being able to get back to the surface or a Respawn point of any sort when you die and become a ghost should be easy…

If I die on Moon Quay I can just float back to the Florid Postern on endless mode across the ocean and Respawn, but CAVES still runs on this invisible “wall” concept from a long time ago, and it leaves us having to travel through a maze of invisible walls to get back to a spawn point.

Wall or No Wall- I’m Dead, I’m a Ghost, Ghosts WALK THROUGH WALLS… if Shadow Carrats can phase out of the elaborate race track I built up to play by their own rules, then my dead ghost should be able to float through these invisible walls.. right?

Personally.. I’d love for caves to get the same treatment as the Overworld, but with an ocean of Lava, fireproof boats, new magmatic enemies (a few burrowed from Forge) and being able to build and place our own bridges over the short gaps between biomes like you can now do in the Overworld using Docks.

[DVGMedia]

It would be fun to buff The lazy deserter for solo play
a simple change like make desert stones be usable to teleport back to a deserter its linked to.
 

[Gi-Go]

Obviously not. It's a very useful and fun glitch. 

[Mr Giggio]

This isnt an issue, it doesnt bother anyone, also it only happens when you want it to. For me things which need to be get rid is stuff like this 

 

seriously its nasty Im actually mad I cant do it anymore xD 

 

[PetulantPansy]

15 hours ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Blank/"control lot" vote pls? I for one am indifferent with a caveat: if this glitch gets patched, KLei should also consider an alternative for long-distance travel in late-game (aside Wanda and Wortox, ofc) - like the possibility to activate in some manner Lazy Deserter for travel without player assistance. This way will also address solo/personal server players' grievance related to Deserter's superfluousness in that context.

Voidwalking is good for long distance travel when different biomes are close on the map but are not connected. However, this only addresses a fraction of void walking cases and the failure to address the other half of the cases is disingenuous. Other reasons people void walk:

- skip worm attacks

- skip dangers (monkey's in the cave/nightmare phase in the ruins, the entire labyrinth)

- skip parts of quest lines (getting to the afw arena)

- cheese afw

 

There's so much more to it than just time-saving transportation. Frankly, some of this is game breaking. Sure it's a sandbox game. There are no rules. Everyone plays how they want to play. But when you have stuff like this that really is just 1 or 2 steps removed from using console commands, it's understandable why some people may advocate for its complete removal with no conditions attached. 

[Guille6785]

1 hour ago, PetulantPansy said:

Voidwalking is good for long distance travel when different biomes are close on the map but are not connected. However, this only addresses a fraction of void walking cases and the failure to address the other half of the cases is disingenuous. Other reasons people void walk:

- skip worm attacks

- skip dangers (monkey's in the cave/nightmare phase in the ruins, the entire labyrinth)

- skip parts of quest lines (getting to the afw arena)

- cheese afw

 

There's so much more to it than just time-saving transportation. Frankly, some of this is game breaking. Sure it's a sandbox game. There are no rules. Everyone plays how they want to play. But when you have stuff like this that really is just 1 or 2 steps removed from using console commands, it's understandable why some people may advocate for its complete removal with no conditions attached. 

worms are completely unable to do anything against walls and so are monkeys, the labyrinth just needs you to walk along the edges, most people I know just telepoof to the atrium anyway since finding the tentapillar is the last thing you'd want to be bothered to do in this game, and you have never needed voidwalk to cheese fw

voidwalking isn't gamebreaking by any means, it's just really convenient for some people and it doesn't harm anyone

[Cheggf]

7 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

worms are completely unable to do anything against walls and so are monkeys, the labyrinth just needs you to walk along the edges, most people I know just telepoof to the atrium anyway since finding the tentapillar is the last thing you'd want to be bothered to do in this game, and you have never needed voidwalk to cheese fw

voidwalking isn't gamebreaking by any means, it's just really convenient for some people and it doesn't harm anyone

How are you acting like monkeys are nothing but smacking a few stationary pillars is the end of the world 

[gamehun20]

9 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

How are you acting like monkeys are nothing but smacking a few stationary pillars is the end of the world

Both of those things can be both a pain to deal with or the easiest thing you have seen if you what you can do against them

[PetulantPansy]

8 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

worms are completely unable to do anything against walls and so are monkeys, the labyrinth just needs you to walk along the edges, most people I know just telepoof to the atrium anyway since finding the tentapillar is the last thing you'd want to be bothered to do in this game, and you have never needed voidwalk to cheese fw

just because there are other (actual intended) methods for handling the same challenges that void walking circumvents doesn't mean that people won't abuse void walking to circumvent these challenges.

 

11 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

voidwalking isn't gamebreaking by any means, it's just really convenient for some people and it doesn't harm anyone

this is obviously subjective, but playing the "vanilla" game where you can make it such that depth worms and the nightmare phase no longer matter any more (really the 2 main ways to die in the caves aside from bunnies, low sanity, clockworks, or a falling mole) is pretty game breaking. closing your eyes and holding "f" to beat the final boss (or one of 2 or 3 main bosses) is pretty game breaking in my book too. 

 

You're right, nothing in the game harms anyone, but when a bug gets abused to the point where it takes some of the challenging and exciting aspects of the game out, people may have issues with it. Going through afw's lair and beating afw for the first time used to be actually exciting. Teams would feel a sense of accomplishment after finishing the entire quest line. You can still do that today but no one else will come along. The norm for experienced players is to void walk over to the atrium, cheese/hold f, and mission success! You have reset the ruins. 

 

Lastly, you have to remember that bugs are binary. Voidwalking either is a bug, or it is not. Bugs will be patched out over time. 

[Yuuko]

Not purposefully - like a patch just to remove it.  imo that would be pretty stupid.

But if there were a change that remove it because they actually did something - like how the void walking was removed from the surface when they added the ocean - that's okay.

I do think we need some kind of update to the void in the caves.  Not boats like the surface has, but an update allowing us to build bridges similar to docks would be really welcome.  Obviously they couldn't just let us free-build tiles, but perhaps if they required you build it on each side, and it connected so you couldn't use it to cheese an area you couldn't normally get to - that would be good enough.  Maybe ban placement within a certain range of the Atrium and Archives too?

[MondayNight]

16 hours ago, PetulantPansy said:

Voidwalking is good for...:

- skip worm attacks

- skip dangers (monkey's in the cave/nightmare phase in the ruins, the entire labyrinth)

- skip parts of quest lines (getting to the afw arena)

- cheese afw

I can skip Worms waves with another glitch if I want to - won't discuss it because of the obvious. Still, Depths Worms waves are localized (one can solely abandon them where they spawn) and even beneficial - can be used to farm Grass/Twigs, clear Ruins (localized), kill AG (trololol when bored and want a laugh - I tend to base in peninsula at beginning of Labyrinth and pile-up Worms in AG arena; or they can be "contextual helpers"), etc; can be farmed via Ents and Rock Lobsters a.s.o. If I don't want to simple-kite them (which is easy, so-much-more than surface Hounds), I got plenty alternatives. Abyss Gate is one with the least amount of returns, employed in "Meh, another Intestinal Worms impromptu bonanza, not in mood.. *skip!*" scenario (needless to say is contextual/localized).

"Cave Monke madnessu", Nightmare Phases or Labyrinth (I wouldn't include this one, being easy too navigating on margins) matter solely in early game if rushing - and given you don't know map at that moment, Abyss Gate would be useless to you since you'll deploy it randomly and most-likely without effective use. From mid-game onward one can simply pen Monkeys that may pose some inconvenience, and make Cobblestones roads/mini-arenas where you want to skip Crawlers and/or kite Terrors, as adjacent convenience/aid. Am not including possible farms you can make related to Monkeys, which are oh-so beneficial, or setups to slow down Terrors and/or chip at their hp.

Finding AFw arena via Tentapillars is very easy, no fighting/kiting required: give 15 Flints (tends to only accumulate, even in early-game) to a snail, then K-BOOM the pesky slithering pillar you target; or use 4x Gun Powder (easy to amass). Is only a matter of exploration - which most advanced players do anyway, to have whole maps - and feeding Snails if not in mood to use Fugu Hutch. You overestimate this "quest", nothing "exciting" about it. As for navigating Atrium: early on - Moggles + Nightmare Amulet. Quite easy if experienced. Or use WX, no Moggles required. Later on, Bone Helm and can retain for this part your Backpack (most likely a Piggyback or Krampus Sack by now) too.

Can "cheese" AFw, as Guille mentioned, without any Abyss gate. In fact there are methods more simple and effective: Houndius Shootius, Walter & Pellets, "roided up" Mighty Wolfgang with Darts, Gun Powder (instant kill, quite funny - AFw does a surrendering "hands-up" animation and that's it), etc. Or bring friends/acquaintances/competent randoms: I was part so many times of 2x Wolfs + 1x Wig + some-other-filler player, 2x Wig & Songs +1x Wolf, 3x "spiced" Mighty Wolfs (absolutely hilarious!) gangs. Anything (non-newbie/noob) over solo/2-player teams is simple "press F, profit" (1x "filler" player can take care of Shadow Hands if necessary, no need to participate in F-ing).

 

All mentioned above, plus Nightmare Cycle mod and another mod to displace all seasonal and stats filters, will assure you "smooth sailing" if that's what you want, without any use of Abyss Gate. Again: this particular "glitch" is purely out of convenience. Can, of course, be very useful, but not necessary. In fact, aside some advanced competent players, I never see randoms/casuals/etc even conceptualize its purpose if they see it somewhere in Caves. Once more: I would be, as a principle, for its elimination IF alternatives for quick travel - aka solo-use of Lazy Deserter - will be implemented.

[Yuuko]

23 hours ago, Cheggf said:

The void doesn't exist, it's walls. The graphics were changed to omit the walls due to claustrophobic reasons.

While INITIALLY the cave walls were walls, I don't believe this is a thing anymore.  We can freely used ranged attacks across gaps, and monsters can clearly see / aggro across the gap.  There is no game logic sense that there are walls.

[Riddla]

7 hours ago, PetulantPansy said:

Going through afw's lair and beating afw for the first time used to be actually exciting. Teams would feel a sense of accomplishment after finishing the entire quest line. You can still do that today but no one else will come along. The norm for experienced players is to void walk over to the atrium, cheese/hold f, and mission success! You have reset the ruins.

I am not really buying this part. Surely there are a lot of people out there with the same mindset as yours, don't you think? They would refuse and discourage teammates from cheesing the boss, because they know well that there's no fun in that. Not everyone plays for the sake of completion, a big part of people still wants to experience the fun behind challenge, teamwork, and other things.

[PetulantPansy]

1 hour ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

snip

 

All mentioned above, plus Nightmare Cycle mod and another mod to displace all seasonal and stats filters, will assure you "smooth sailing" if that's what you want, without any use of Abyss Gate. Again: this particular "glitch" is purely out of convenience. Can, of course, be very useful, but not necessary. In fact, aside some advanced competent players, I never see randoms/casuals/etc even conceptualize its purpose if they see it somewhere in Caves. Once more: I would be, as a principle, for its elimination IF alternatives for quick travel - aka solo-use of Lazy Deserter - will be implemented.

I'm not sure why you're telling me this. Obviously, there are built-in/"legitimate" ways to handle all of the challenges I mentioned and you discussed above. It doesn't matter how easy the legitimate ways to handle these challenges are. No matter how you trivialize the effort required, some level of effort will always be required. There will always be a greater risk of dying when using these legitimate methods. Nothing will beat circumventing them with a few logs/rope/twigs when we want to see what requires the lowest amount of effort. Even though there are alternatives, the glitch is being abused a lot for these reasons. When you take the survival aspects out of a survival game, that is considered game breaking. The only ways you can die in the void, are through hunger, darkness, or sanity creatures - which you would die to anyways without void walking. Void walking however, does remove all the other survival aspects of the game. 

 

As far as time saving travel, the lazy explorer already exists. Long distance travel already exists too in multi-player worlds. Solo long distance travel is a character specific perk and it always has been. If you want to do it solo, why not just use a gonext command at that point. You're effectively doing the exact same thing through void walking except it takes you slightly longer to go to the same place. That's why this stuff is game breaking. It's only 1 or 2 steps removed from using a console command. Does it really bring anyone satisfaction to walk in the void to the atrium vs use an a console command? Does draining an extra 10 sanity, use of 3 light bulbs, and use of 30 hunger while void walking to go to the ruins really bring anyone satisfaction over using a console command and using c_gonext('ruins_statue_mage'). They're effectively the same thing - you're using unintended methods to bring QoL improvements. 

51 minutes ago, Riddla said:

I am not really buying this part. Surely there are a lot of people out there with the same mindset as yours, don't you think? They would refuse and discourage teammates to cheese the boss, because they know well that there's no fun in that. Not everyone plays for the sake of completion, a big part of people still wants to experience the fun behind challenge, teamwork, and other things.

That's fair. There are a few of those players still out there, but they need to be on the server at the same time. 

 

Edit: lastly, i find it ironic how @x0-VERSUS-1yis happy to mention specific survivors (WX, Wigfrid, Walter, Warly, and wolfgang) during the discussion of certain challenges, but decides to omit Wortox and Wanda when we talk about long distance travel alternatives. Thus, pretending that solo long distance travel alternatives don't exist.  

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

While INITIALLY the cave walls were walls, I don't believe this is a thing anymore.  We can freely used ranged attacks across gaps, and monsters can clearly see / aggro across the gap.  There is no game logic sense that there are walls.

ask wanda and how she was changed to dont be able to hit throw gaps

 

btw

is this in klei's lore

 

and the rocky bridges that connects biomes are in the lore like this

 

[MondayNight]

30 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

I'm not sure why you're telling me this.

To underline Abyss Gate is not such a "game breaking glitch" as some people make it to be.

 

31 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

There will always be a greater risk of dying when using these legitimate methods. Nothing will beat circumventing them with a few logs/rope/twigs when we want to see what requires the lowest amount of effort.

There's 0 risk in simply outrun Worms for any advanced player (the same ones that know-and-use Abyss Gate). Or employing Houndius Shootius, Walter & Pellets, Gun Powder vs AFw. It simply doesn't have what to do to you if timing right. Same as timing Abyss escape prior to Worms' sound being played off.

 

35 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

When you take the survival aspects out of a survival game, that is considered game breaking.

So does building auto-pig/bunny/spider/bosses/etc farms. Are those game breaking too?

 

37 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

 If you want to do it solo, why not just use a gonext command at that point.

If you mean me, personally - I solely play pubs. Am over solo personal server play for years now (been playing since 1st DST Beta). I've mentioned distances because I've seen allegedly solo personal server people writing about the current Lazy Deserter uselessness for their play-style. And, of course, if LD would be tweaked to not require second player, but some activation via Desert Stones and whatnot, a key aspect of Abyss Gate use would be mitigated and I for one would be ok with its elimination - perhaps many other as well, of similar mindset. And/or Abyss bridges implemented, as posters above mentioned.

[Baark0]

changing this in the caves current state is a bad decision, since there is so little to do in the caves most people opt to just skip the caves and void walk to the ruins. if klei were to update the caves and add actual content to it, them removing void walk would be fine imo as the caves has things to explore now, instead of just being a long walk to the ruins.

[MondayNight]

1 hour ago, PetulantPansy said:

Edit: lastly, i find it ironic how @x0-VERSUS-1yis happy to mention specific survivors (WX, Wigfrid, Walter, Warly, and wolfgang) during the discussion of certain challenges, but decides to omit Wortox and Wanda when we talk about long distance travel alternatives. Thus, pretending that solo long distance travel alternatives don't exist.  

There's nothing ironic. Only Wortox and Wanda have solo-teleportation ability. Meanwhile, instead of 3 Mighty Wolfgangs for example, you can bring 6 random Wilsons, fairly competent players, to press F at AFw, while you yourself take care of Shadow Hands, if needed, to be sure Fw's timed invincibility is accounted for. Likewise there are plenty people out there that have their mains (par example, my co-mains are Walter and Willow) and don't like or want to play anything else on account of "but what if I want to teleport over map". There are also plenty people that don't like certain characters and refuse to play them even if asked. Pretty amusing you mention Wanda, though - a controversial character that feels more like a mod than anything, pretty much outclassing all other characters from 1st Winter onward (best and personal weapon in-game, no need for any healing items or food, "auto-kiting" via backtrack, instant access to desired locations on map - even on different shards, etc).

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

auto-kiting via backtrack

lol

[MondayNight]

17 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

lol

There, small hyperbole inverted commas included. Ty for constructively underlying this, lil bud. Kisses and hugs! (we're all best of friends here, aren't we)

[SomebodyRandom]

If they make the cave "walls" behave like walls, give us the ability to dig tunnels to a reasonable degree, and allow ghost characters to phase through walls like they should, then I'm perfectly okay with the removal of voidwalking.