Okay where is the lore discussion about the new short?

[Nextej]

I dunno if that was said already in the thread, but aren't on the board only the characters that were refreshed and/or added to the base game (so exclusing Wortox, etc.), suggesting that now Charlie places "refreshed" Maxwell?

[ThymeSpirit]

31 minutes ago, Nextej said:

I dunno if that was said already in the thread, but aren't on the board only the characters that were refreshed and/or added to the base game (so exclusing Wortox, etc.), suggesting that now Charlie places "refreshed" Maxwell?

Webber was refreshed but is not on the board in either of the scenes.

[Dextops]

19 minutes ago, ThymeSpirit said:

Webber was refreshed but is not on the board in either of the scenes.

this must mean that webber is the true antagonist the entire time and is also Them.

[Nextej]

28 minutes ago, ThymeSpirit said:

Webber was refreshed but is not on the board in either of the scenes.

Yeah, well, um, dammit, nevermind then.

[BezKa]

Alter's alive and well btw

[astroapyr]

25 minutes ago, BezKa said:

Alter's alive and well btw

Wish it has a speedy recovery. :prayemoji:

[Loonytoony]

5 hours ago, BezKa said:

Alter's alive and well btw

so instead of killing them Wagstaff just encased them in moon crystal. 

[Atkvin]

I just thought of something, doesn't Fuelweaver have an attack that stuns all insane players by filling their heads with visions of nightmare creatures? Maybe that's how They got into Charlie's mind without prior exposure to dark magic herself, when Fuelweaver used this attack to try and incapacitate her.

[Thrul]

It's in the "Maxwell's Character Refresh is Now Available" pinned thread.

[oCrapaCreeper]

3 hours ago, Atkvin said:

I just thought of something, doesn't Fuelweaver have an attack that stuns all insane players by filling their heads with visions of nightmare creatures? Maybe that's how They got into Charlie's mind without prior exposure to dark magic herself, when Fuelweaver used this attack to try and incapacitate her.

That's his way of "saving" you. Charlie probably had a massive skill issue and let it happen to her. Makes sense that she's the one to preform the finishing blow on the Fuelweaver.

[Szczuku]

8 hours ago, Loonytoony said:

so instead of killing them Wagstaff just encased them in moon crystal. 

Never understood why some people thought that Wagstaff killed Alter. Like, guys... Alter's an elder god, give it some credit. All Wagstaff did was take one of its energy libs, that Alter had sent down with the Lunar Island.

I imagine that this is all natural part of how Alter works. Dormant, asleep it is aware of what's happening in the Constant but can't do much (except maybe drop a piece of itself). With the Mysterious Energy brought to the surface Alter awakens, shedding its shell completely. The Moonstorms are most likely just areas that Alter is currently looking at. With its limb stolen by Wagstaff, Alter decides to call it an even and starts rebuilding its shell. Moon glass is its main produce, so the inner layer is made out of it and the outer, rocky layer will probably be slowly regrown, since it constantly sheds it causing the meteorite showers. Alter can see through the glass layer; right now it is not interacting with the Constant but it is observing everything on the surface. Once the rocky layer regrows and blocks Alter's vision it will most likely go dormant again, to its pre RoT state. I bet the limb will also be regenerated; or maybe it just returned to Alter once Wagstaff blew it up.

8 hours ago, Atkvin said:

I just thought of something, doesn't Fuelweaver have an attack that stuns all insane players by filling their heads with visions of nightmare creatures? Maybe that's how They got into Charlie's mind without prior exposure to dark magic herself, when Fuelweaver used this attack to try and incapacitate her.

Fuelweaver did not exist untill the survivors activated the gateway and placed Shadow Atrium inside the skeleton. Before that Fuelweaver's (aka Ancient King's) mind was trapped in the Atrium, held by the Shadow Pieces. 

Maybe the FW shot means that true Charlie (inside the queen Charlie) had hoped that the gateway would bring her home. Maybe it was supposed to be some connection between the Ancient King (FW) and the Ancient Queen (Metheus, who at that time was not be merged with Charlie, wasn't she?). Yeah, it seems strange to reference Fuelweaver in the scene where Charlie discovers Maxwell's secret room.

Maybe it's supposed to mean that at that moment Charlie and Maxwell's fates were sealed, like the Ancient Ruler's?

 

My own 2 cents of lore:

It is now cannon that survivors are shrunk down and powerful people are tall in the Constant.

Spoiler

In this scene Charlie is offering Maxwell his lost power... by making him tall. Which means that he shrunk down once he became a survivor

[MA7xGE]

On 11/23/2022 at 5:02 PM, DelroyBM said:

@mkemal23Nah man, I think you are right. But this is good, now we know how Alter looks after we defeat the Celestial Champion, it's basically a salty encaged Eye of Sauron.

 

Another interesting thing is the way characters are placed on the chess board, I'd say the ones closer to her have some meaning like the ones she is most vulnerable to. klei could've placed them in this order intentionally or not.

  Reveal hidden contents

I find it funny to think this is Charlie's character tierlist, 3 out of my 4 mains are on the B tier so I guess thats good.

 

 

Hmm. There is one white pawn standing on a black square.

[WebberMain]

3 hours ago, Szczuku said:

With its limb stolen by Wagstaff, Alter decides to call it an even and starts rebuilding its shell. Moon glass is its main produce, so the inner layer is made out of it and the outer, rocky layer will probably be slowly regrown, since it constantly sheds it causing the meteorite showers. Alter can see through the glass layer; right now it is not interacting with the Constant but it is observing everything on the surface. Once the rocky layer regrows and blocks Alter's vision it will most likely go dormant again, to its pre RoT state. I bet the limb will also be regenerated; or maybe it just returned to Alter once Wagstaff blew it up.

  Reveal hidden contents

What if Alter just encased himself in moonglass so he can see and do things to the Constant, while preventing Wagstaff or anyone from siphoning more of his energy. When he is inside a container with no holes, he can´t really get siphoned out. It might be just a preventive measure when he now knows something like that might happen. I doubt he would give up control over the Constant when he just woke up from his slumber

[Szczuku]

1 hour ago, WebberMain said:

What if Alter just encased himself in moonglass so he can see and do things to the Constant, while preventing Wagstaff or anyone from siphoning more of his energy. When he is inside a container with no holes, he can´t really get siphoned out. It might be just a preventive measure when he now knows something like that might happen. I doubt he would give up control over the Constant when he just woke up from his slumber

Thing is: Wagstaff stole Alter's energy limb, which was within the lunar island, not from Alter itself. Alter is... well, basically a moon, somewhere in space. As far as we know, Wagstaff cannot project himself into space. Alter doesn't need to worry about losing anymore energy, I mean, as long as it doesn't drop another piece of itself into the ocean that is.

[mkemal23]

2 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Thing is: Wagstaff stole Alter's energy limb, which was within the lunar island, not from Alter itself.

Wait, didn't Alter created the CC? I thought Wagstaff stole the Gestalt that controls the Lunar altars.

[Szczuku]

48 minutes ago, mkemal23 said:

Wait, didn't Alter created the CC? I thought Wagstaff stole the Gestalt that controls the Lunar altars.

Yes, CC is a special meteor that Alter sends out. It merges with the 3 altars and, powered by the Mysterious Energy, fights for Alter. At least that's what I assumed based on the game's events. Wagstaff stealing CC's power = Wagstaff stealing the Mysterious Energy = Wagstaff stealing Alter's energy limb (that dropped with the lunar island)

[mkemal23]

6 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Yes, CC is a special meteor that Alter sends out. It merges with the 3 altars and, powered by the Mysterious Energy, fights for Alter. At least that's what I assumed based on the game's events. Wagstaff stealing CC's power = Wagstaff stealing the Mysterious Energy = Wagstaff stealing Alter's energy limb (that dropped with the lunar island)

Oh, that makes sense, thanks for the explanation.

[ThymeSpirit]

10 hours ago, Szczuku said:

In this scene Charlie is offering Maxwell his lost power... by making him tall. Which means that he shrunk down once he became a survivor

I watched that part several times and I can't tell if he actually becomes taller or it just seems so because he was on his knees and then standing up.

[MadMatt]

25 minutes ago, ThymeSpirit said:

I watched that part several times and I can't tell if he actually becomes taller or it just seems so because he was on his knees and then standing up.

Spoiler

As we can see Maxwell's foot before Charlie shadows all over him is approximately under half a red bar in length, but afterwards it's about over a red bar worth of length. You can also see from the still comparison that his suit has grown larger by quite a bit around the ankles.

 

[BezKa]

6 minutes ago, MadMatt said:

  Hide contents

As we can see Maxwell's foot before Charlie shadows all over him is approximately under half a red bar in length, but afterwards it's about over a red bar worth of length. You can also see from the still comparison that his suit has grown larger by quite a bit around the ankles.

 

It's also a dream

[MadMatt]

5 minutes ago, BezKa said:

It's also a dream

True but the question here is if he becomes fun-sized in that scene, which he does.

[Auth]

On 11/24/2022 at 3:47 AM, ThymeSpirit said:

They said that every (DS) character sat on the throne at some point, probably several times, and then Wilson was the last before Charlie took it. I don't think they ever retconned that. But in any case, that has nothing to do with Wilson piece's absense from the board.

I know this was said in a livestream, but I've always felt rather dubious about it. The devs said it, sure, but they also never did anything to actually show that besides the Triumphant skins, which have been questioned left and right about their legitimacy to the lore. No characters really talk about it, the world never looked like it was affected in any way by anyone besides Maxwell & Charlie, and the only thing that really seemed to hint at the idea of someone being on the throne besides Max & Charlie for any substantial period of time is Newhome, which really doesn't look canon.

In fact, the stageplay, the really big in-game lore dump, actually seems to imply that it was solely one person (who would've been shown to be Wilson) that took the throne before Charlie, and also implies that Charlie is at least the first "Queen" (So she says) so that would rule out all female survivors as ever having been on the throne. Unless all of them took the moniker of "King" instead? I don't know.

[TimeToDuel]

38 minutes ago, Auth said:

I know this was said in a livestream, but I've always felt rather dubious about it. The devs said it, sure, but they also never did anything to actually show that besides the Triumphant skins, which have been questioned left and right about their legitimacy to the lore. No characters really talk about it, the world never looked like it was affected in any way by anyone besides Maxwell & Charlie, and the only thing that really seemed to hint at the idea of someone being on the throne besides Max & Charlie for any substantial period of time is Newhome, which really doesn't look canon.

In fact, the stageplay, the really big in-game lore dump, actually seems to imply that it was solely one person (who would've been shown to be Wilson) that took the throne before Charlie, and also implies that Charlie is at least the first "Queen" (So she says) so that would rule out all female survivors as ever having been on the throne. Unless all of them took the moniker of "King" instead? I don't know.

I'm also uncertain about that because, if Wilson was the last person on the throne and all the other survivors had already taken their place, why would Maxwell be on the throne *again* when Wilson takes over? It would've been one of the other survivors, no? And in the comic it was very clearly shown that Wilson took over from Maxwell and not somebody else. 

[ThymeSpirit]

9 hours ago, TimeToDuel said:

I'm also uncertain about that because, if Wilson was the last person on the throne and all the other survivors had already taken their place, why would Maxwell be on the throne *again* when Wilson takes over? It would've been one of the other survivors, no? And in the comic it was very clearly shown that Wilson took over from Maxwell and not somebody else. 

I understand it as Wilson first taking the throne from Maxwell, then other survivors took it from Wilson and each other, then Wilson was on the throne again when Charlie appeared. But I agree that it feels like a patch for a logic hole with no references in canon.

[Garett Skott]

I think that only Wilson could have ever reached the throne because the adventure portal was on only his island. Maxwell accidentally left it there and I doubt the would copy & paste it elsewhere for the other survivors to embark on a journey he didn't want to happen.