Okay where is the lore discussion about the new short?

[Falkenpelz]

It's been several hours guys

Seriously though, let's collect some lore bits and theories here that we can get out of the new animated short (gosh was that amazing!). A lot of stuff is already known, but what I found particularly interesting is the scene where Charlie is shown being attacked by the Fuelweaver and right after that her white figurine falls and drowns in the black field. From her stageplay we know that she was somehow "broken" and apparently saved by Them after the last act. The new scene implies, that it might have been the Fuelweaver who "broke" her and that she and probably Maxwell might have come out of the Gateway. A theory that has been around for a while is that the Fuelweaver aka Cyclum created the Nightmare Throne to keep Them under control and if Charlie actually met him right after being teleported into the Constant, this would make a lot of sense. He might have seen a chance to put Maxwell on the throne as a replacement, discard Charlie as collateral damage and finally die after having secured the necessities for the greater good of protecting the world from the Nightmare Entity that he had let in.

[Gi-Go]

There is no lore in don't starve 

[Loonytoony]

53 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

There is no lore in don't starve 

ok so ignoring the meme which is cannon? in the short it shows the events of Charlie finding out Maxwell's coo coo shenanigans just like the William Carter puzzles. However details are different when Charlie enters his secret room. In the short it shows Maxwell is inside the room trying to fight off some shadow stuff while in the William Carter puzzles it shows that he is inside the painting hiding from Charlie and he eventually just summons light to get rid of some shadow hands. Unless its just some kind of cool effect I assume that Charlie altered the details of her finding out about Maxwell's shenanigan's in order to remove the summoning light part because you don't want to remind an enemy that they have the ability to just erase soldiers of your species with just their mind, especially if your trying to get them on your side. I don't know anymore I'm just a lore nut, thank you for reading I guess.

[skile]

2 hours ago, Loonytoony said:

ok so ignoring the meme which is cannon? in the short it shows the events of Charlie finding out Maxwell's coo coo shenanigans just like the William Carter puzzles. However details are different when Charlie enters his secret room. In the short it shows Maxwell is inside the room trying to fight off some shadow stuff while in the William Carter puzzles it shows that he is inside the painting hiding from Charlie and he eventually just summons light to get rid of some shadow hands. Unless its just some kind of cool effect I assume that Charlie altered the details of her finding out about Maxwell's shenanigan's in order to remove the summoning light part because you don't want to remind an enemy that they have the ability to just erase soldiers of your species with just their mind, especially if your trying to get them on your side. I don't know anymore I'm just a lore nut, thank you for reading I guess.

Considering Maxwell's quotes for Wicker's light books(something about Wicker taking some inspiration from the codex iirc), it would seem that he still remembers that spell, however he just... doesn't use it for some reason?

[WebberMain]

5 hours ago, skile said:

Considering Maxwell's quotes for Wicker's light books(something about Wicker taking some inspiration from the codex iirc), it would seem that he still remembers that spell, however he just... doesn't use it for some reason?

Maybe the spell he has in mind is not about summoning full moon, but summoning total darkness(new moon), because that seems like something from the codex. But there isn´t really a point in making all the light go away

[astroapyr]

What I find most curious is that Alter/The "Moon" is shown complete in the Encore trailer. If the trailer is set before Return of Them - Turn of Tides (the trailer where The "Moon" breaks and a piece of it falls on the sea) Maxwell has been a double agent for some time before the moon faction was introduced.

That is, of course, if the Constant timeline events are linear.

EDIT: I was wrong: Alter is encaged in moon glass after you defeat the Celestial Champion, it is evident when you look at the moon cycle's UI after the fight.

[Atkvin]

On 11/23/2022 at 12:03 PM, Falkenpelz said:

The new scene implies, that it might have been the Fuelweaver who "broke" her and that she and probably Maxwell might have come out of the Gateway

Oh right, since the jury-rigged portal was built by Wilson and Maxwell only after they were both dethroned (and later Charlie added her own flair on it, credit to the original artists), they/she must have come out of the ancient gateway in the ruins.

It is curious that the Ancient Fuelweaver had a role in this though, given how they devote themselves to guarding the portal from Them.

My biggest question spotlighted further by this short showing how Charlie remembers fond memories of her relationship with Maxwell - is why does she hate him so much now?

Looking at Maxwell's lines on the throne from adventure mode, we can infer that They were the ones who put him on the throne ("Or maybe They've grown tired of me.") and gave him the power to shape the Constant and lure the survivors in for his amusement.

Based on how the actions of the King in the drama contradict the implication that Maxwell was trapped on the throne BY Them - or at the very least certainly holds no power over Them - I can only assume she was fed lies by Them after the Fuelweaver caught and gravely injured her, allowing Them to earn her trust after rescuing her and turning her into the grue.

It seems like They gave Maxwell godlike power with the intent of freeing Them from their shackles - but when he refused to/was too dense to ("I don't know what they want. They... they just watch."), they decided they needed a more insecure and malleable mind to mold to their whims ("Why didn't you let me/us in" from Them to Maxwell) -- scapegoating Maxwell as a power-hungry coward that stole Their powers and tried to get rid of Charlie with the Fuelweaver, to fully turn her against someone she once loved and cared deeply for.

[mkemal23]

4 minutes ago, DelroyBM said:

What I find most curious is that Alter/The "Moon" is shown complete in the Encore trailer. If the trailer is set before Return of Them - Turn of Tides (the trailer where The "Moon" breaks and a piece of it falls on the sea) Maxwell has been a double agent for some time before the moon faction was introduced.

That is, of course, if the Constant timeline events are linear.

I'm pretty sure that this trailer happened after Return of Them. 

Spoiler

Alter in Maxwell's Short.

Spoiler

"Alter" in Axiom Visus trailer.

 

 

[skile]

23 minutes ago, WebberMain said:

Maybe the spell he has in mind is not about summoning full moon, but summoning total darkness(new moon), because that seems like something from the codex. But there isn´t really a point in making all the light go away

I meant the Lux book

[ShadowDuelist]

When Maxwell was about to be attacked by Charlie he used to say -"Charlie? its me, Maxwell". Now he says "it's better to keep the appearances". Like "acting" that he is still part of the survivors and the darkness is a threat for him as usual... Charlie can still kill him though.

He really goes all the way as a stage performer.

[astroapyr]

18 minutes ago, mkemal23 said:

I'm pretty sure that this trailer happened after Return of Them. 

I doubt it. Axiom Visus is the finale of the Return of Them season and Turn of Tides is the beginning of it, in both is shown that "the moon" is missing a piece but in the Encore trailer (Maxwell's) the moon is complete. What I mean is, in case I couldn't explain myself correctly: Encore is chronologically set before Return of Them.

[mkemal23]

1 minute ago, DelroyBM said:

I doubt it. Axiom Visus is the finale of the Return of Them season and Turn of Tides is the beginning of it, in both is shown that "the moon" is missing a piece but in the Encore trailer (Maxwell's) the moon is complete. What I mean is, in case I couldn't explain myself correctly: Encore is chronologically set before Return of Them.

If you look carefully, Alter in the Encore trailer has a eye inside and the "Moon" is covered with what it looks like moon glass to protect(?) itself. The trailer happens after the Defeat of Celestial Champion(the full day night in game happens probably because of this.)

The pictures are just a comparison of the Old and new Moon

Spoiler

 

Here is another comparaison.

 

[astroapyr]

@mkemal23Nah man, I think you are right. But this is good, now we know how Alter looks after we defeat the Celestial Champion, it's basically a salty encaged Eye of Sauron.

 

Another interesting thing is the way characters are placed on the chess board, I'd say the ones closer to her have some meaning like the ones she is most vulnerable to. klei could've placed them in this order intentionally or not.

Spoiler

I find it funny to think this is Charlie's character tierlist, 3 out of my 4 mains are on the B tier so I guess thats good.

 

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, DelroyBM said:

What I find most curious is that Alter/The "Moon" is shown complete in the Encore trailer. If the trailer is set before Return of Them - Turn of Tides (the trailer where The "Moon" breaks and a piece of it falls on the sea) Maxwell has been a double agent for some time before the moon faction was introduced.

That is, of course, if the Constant timeline events are linear.

the moon looks crystalized which is how it looks after you defeat CC. This short is set after eye of storm events

[Quintuples]

21 minutes ago, DelroyBM said:

@mkemal23Nah man, I think you are right. But this is good, now we know how Alter looks after we defeat the Celestial Champion, it's basically a salty encaged Eye of Sauron.

 

Another interesting thing is the way characters are placed on the chess board, I'd say the ones closer to her have some meaning like the ones she is most vulnerable to. klei could've placed them in this order intentionally or not.

  Reveal hidden contents

I find it funny to think this is Charlie's character tierlist, 3 out of my 4 mains are on the B tier so I guess thats good.

 

 

In the same vein, I wonder if Wilson being absent from the board has any lore significance. The DLC characters have always had questionable canonicity to the main story, and maybe Webber isn't present because he's half spider so Charlie can control him in some way (?) but Wilson is the only human, base game character that isn't present. Either that or it's just a mistake in the animation. 

[astroapyr]

13 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the moon looks crystalized which is how it looks after you defeat CC. This short is set after eye of storm events

Right, now you mention it I remember that's how the moon looks in the game's UI after you defeat CC.

[Atkvin]

32 minutes ago, DelroyBM said:

Another interesting thing is the way characters are placed on the chess board, I'd say the ones closer to her have some meaning like the ones she is most vulnerable to.

I'm inclined to believe it's reflecting the importance/knowledge of the characters in order - WX made by Wagstaff, Winona worked under Wagstaff, Wicker being part of some secret society that had archived knowledge of Them, and Wendy.. I guess just being niece of Maxwell.

The rest are kinda just unfortunate miscellaneous miscreants dragged into the constant by Maxwell - embodied most of all by Wes the unlucky fool that wasn't even supposed to be the one sent here.

I do wonder what Charlie thinks of Wanda in particular then though, given how powerful Wanda is using power actually stolen from Them.

[MadMatt]

16 minutes ago, Atkvin said:

I'm inclined to believe it's reflecting the importance/knowledge of the characters in order - WX made by Wagstaff, Winona worked under Wagstaff, Wicker being part of some secret society that had archived knowledge of Them, and Wendy.. I guess just being niece of Maxwell.

This is an interesting idea and logical for quite a few characters, but what about Walter and Warly? How are they more important than Wolfgang who personally encountered William and shadow magic? Or as important as Willow who directly worked with Maxwell? Even ignoring that they don't seem to have any sway or influence over current events. Maybe this is true and Klei will elaborate on it, or I'm just missing something :P 

[Flip Face]

If their position on the board really matters.

I'd like to understand what threat Warly would pose to Charlie.

And Wes poses a huge threat to them.

That's why he's on the other side of the board. He's the other player.

He is on the same Level as Charlie, they are face to face. Why else would she put him there?

[Cassielu]

Foreground: The final performance is on the night of April 17th, Charlie comes to Maxwell's apartment is probably on the afternoon of April 17th, and the earthquake happens on April 18th at 5:12 a.m.

 

In Short1:40 to 2:02, actually five scene were cut together.

1. Charlie in a red coat finds the entrance to the hidden chamber. The scene indicates that it is before the earthquake

2. Maxwell fights the Shadow (creatures?) in the hidden chamber. The scene indicates that it is after the earthquake

3. Similar to the story we've already seen in the William Carter puzzle, Charlie in a red coat is frightened by something and runs out of the hidden chamber. But the scene outside indicates that it is after the earthquake, also, she did not take the Codex Umbra or Maxwell's clothes. It is worth mentioning that the time shown by the clock in Maxwell's apartment in this scene is not the time of Charlie running out of the apartment in Puzzle, nor is it the time of the earthquake. If the time is not far apart, it actually shows the time probably after the final performance but before the earthquake.

4. The Final Art short clip. According to the Compendium, they did enter The Constant at this point.

5. Charlie was in the atrium, looking at something uneasily, transform into her shadow mosnter form for a moment and was attacked from behind by Fuelweaver. 

 

With such a confusing timeline, I wish there was a better theorist than me who could explain it for us. But for myself, I can only think of three theories:

1. None of these scenes are real. Maybe a false memory to control Charlie. Or maybe it's not an apartment, but a similar space constructed by magic.

2.The artist got it wrong.

3.God damn time travel.

 

[Tranoze]

1 hour ago, DelroyBM said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I find it funny to think this is Charlie's character tierlist, 3 out of my 4 mains are on the B tier so I guess thats good.

 

 

Do you notice every character are in white square, while both Maxwell and Wes are in black one. Maybe Wes was with Charlie side all along...

[MadMatt]

14 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

Well, I noticed that this board has eight by nine squares. I only have a basic understanding of chess. Is this some kind of special rules board?

There are a ton of variants in chess with different rules so it could be possible Charlie just has an obscure taste in chess, but I think it's more likely it's a minor inconsistency considering the chess board in the previous scene has the correct 8x8 number of squares.

[SecretPizzaMan]

The way the pieces on the board are set out makes it look like they're all in their own little groups.

One group has Warly, Wendy, WX78 and Winona. I'm not sure what the hell they have in common with each other.

Second group has Wolfgang and Wigfrid together. The only thing they have in common is their combat abilities.

And third group has Woody and Walter. They both like the forests.. I guess.

And finally Wicker, Willow, Maxwell and Wes seem to be by themselves away from the others.

This chess board might be a metaphor for their relationships with each other. It might just be random placement. Not sure.

But I don't think the board means anything. Well at least it won't mean anything until much later.

[ShadowDuelist]

23 minutes ago, SecretPizzaMan said:

And third group has Woody and Walter. They both like the forests.. I guess.

They are both Canadian. Walter is also fascinated by the Werebeaver stories.

[TimeToDuel]

I noticed Klei "liked" a comment on YouTube noting Wilson's absence from the board on the final scene. Which could mean nothing buuuuut

He's there the first time they show the board, before Max and Charlie make their deal, and gone the second time after the deal is sealed. I don't think they would forget Wilson. He's the face of the franchise. The other characters missing are monsters (who wouldn't be on the board because they aren't survivors), Webber (who is part monster and therefore apart of the Constant now), and Wanda. 

Chess needs two players. Is it possible that Wilson is (once again) the other player? 

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dontstarve_gamepedia_en/images/2/2d/Wilson_chess_copy.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20170411060005