[Game Update] - 530962

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, ALCRD said:

On the flpside you can't have so many shadow duelists by your side at same time that it legit risks lagging/crashing the server.

But on the flipside he has no fraction penalties.

9 minutes ago, edulopes said:

please dont count merm timers, they are almost instanteneous

Merms guards only and only while the king is alive andnormal merms are penalized during winter without cheese 

[edulopes]

9 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Merms guards only and only while the king is alive andnormal merms are penalized during winter without cheese 

easy enough

[Cloakingsumo198]

3 hours ago, sudoku said:

I wonder how happy klei are that they only have 1 of these reworks left. I definitley wont miss this constant back and forth!

What about the willow and woodie re-rework.

We all know they need it.

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

What about the willow and woodie re-rework.

We all know they need it.

Woodie would probably just need some number tweaks

[edulopes]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

Woodie would probably just need some number tweaks

like having normal moose atk speed
more durable beaver
i think goose is fine
maybie the ability to fling lucy away

[Cloakingsumo198]

God I would love some character tweaks for Walter, warly, Winona, woodie, willow.

They always felt like the characters with the least pizzaz in their kit and gameplay.

Woodie and willow probably suffered by being the first few reworks to come out.

While Walter, Winona, and warly I don't think we're ever planned to be reworked.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Cloakingsumo198

[edulopes]

1 minute ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

warly

why warly? he is fine by his own/OP in teams

Edited November 15, 2022 by edulopes

[ALCRD]

9 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

What about the willow and woodie re-rework.

We all know they need it.

What about Walter? He could use a small refresh / QOL 

Edited November 15, 2022 by ALCRD

[Cloakingsumo198]

1 minute ago, edulopes said:

why warly? he is fine by his own/OP in teams

Warly is so boring though. 

[edulopes]

and yes for strange as it looks i liked warly playstiyle i keep changing foods even after i stopped playing him, it is easy to survive, and if you dont wanna change, just 3 meatballs/1 meat stew and you are done

Just now, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Warly is so boring though. 

i like him, in theory he only have downside on boss figths because he cant take much damage, if so he would need to have serval food or jelly beans
but if you like the ever changing food playstile he's basically an no downside caracter

[Cloakingsumo198]

2 minutes ago, ALCRD said:

What about Walter? He could use a small refresh / QOL 

Can't have a re-rework if you've never been considered for a rework in the first place.

I wish the dlc characters and the single player ports also got considered for tweaks when the whole rework thing came to be.

[ALCRD]

14 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Can't have a re-rework if you've never been considered for a rework in the first place.

Refresh not a rework.

Wurt got her refresh and no one was expecting it either.

Edited November 15, 2022 by ALCRD

[Cloakingsumo198]

4 minutes ago, edulopes said:

Warly

Being strong doesn't mean being well made.

He is very strong I won't say he is not however.

Warly is boring. Downside is boring, gameplay is boring, his character progression is boring.

Whether it is new mechanics or new recipes warly needs more. He has too few options for a world class chef.

4 minutes ago, ALCRD said:

Wurt got her refresh and no one was expecting it either

Honestly I completely forgot. Good.

Noone seems to like Walter though like they do with wurt as most of those changes I feel like we're things people been asking for a long time.

[ALCRD]

9 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Noone seems to like Walter though

That's precisely why he needs a refresh.

[edulopes]

10 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

He has too few options for a world class chef.

i would not be against more cookings for him, but in the end we all have many cookpot dishes already, so i really dont feel his downside anymore, sometimes is just an nuisance, really in the end he is an totally equal to an wilson but you have to diversify or eat 3 63 food dishes and one 150 to reset
because even he needs more food, the time you spend to eat all the 250 is equal to eating 150 food

[Cloakingsumo198]

1 minute ago, edulopes said:

i would not be against more cookings for him, but in the end we all have many cookpot dishes already, so i really dont feel his downside anymore, sometimes is just an nuisance, really in the end he is an totally equal to an wilson but you have to diversify or eat 3 63 food dishes and one 150 to reset
because even he needs more food, the time you spend to eat all the 250 is equal to eating 150 food

I just slam 2 meaty stews or ignore the repeat dish penalty til I'm full cause it don't really matter. Just gotta make it through 2 days to be good again.

I would like more buff foods or foods that share effects with varying effectiveness. I need plenty of options because I'm not gonna just randomly have crop plants for that very specific recipe each and every time.

And if I do it's probably because I just "grinded" for those ingredients specifically for like an hour or so and I'll never have to do it again until a year later.

The only time you can ever make a special dish naturally in the wild is after visiting the swamp for a cordon bleu or after visiting the ruins for a Glow berry mousse.

Even then his special dishes that don't offer any effect aren't exactly that "special" either. 

Not like he has many to begin with anyways.

Warly just feels like a grind fest instead of a chef making 5 star meals out of garbage and strange ingredients he can find in the fridge.

Plus give him another character specific trait that isn't about how he can access his crockpot and we're good.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Cloakingsumo198

[benfroyobro9381]

 

19 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Being strong doesn't mean being well made.

He is very strong I won't say he is not however.

Warly is boring. Downside is boring, gameplay is boring, his character progression is boring.

Whether it is new mechanics or new recipes warly needs more. He has too few options for a world class chef.

Honestly I completely forgot. Good.

Noone seems to like Walter though like they do with wurt as most of those changes I feel like we're things people been asking for a long time.

I think Warly is rather well made personally. I enjoy his downside, it encourages me to make dishes I don't usually make from scavanging in the early game, makes me feel like a chef. That's just my take on him. 

[LDee]

7 hours ago, Seig Xeon said:

Can you name the 7 bosses? I think you may be underselling the amount of effort, resources(including time), skill, and/or knowledge it takes Maxwell to do the shadow prison/duelist strategy compared to all other strategies against the vast majority of bosses in DST with the other characters on the roster. I would like to analyze your opinion (Maxwell has the easiest, cheapest, and requires less effort/knowledge against bosses. If I am misunderstanding your stance, please let me know). against these bosses, and my current knowledge about the game (1k hours Maxwell main so you know my perspective).

To steelman my stance:
Maxwell's prison/dueslist strategy is niche in superiority, and overall great in comparison (I want this rework to create this) to the rest of the options available.  

Sure:

Deerclopse, Moose/Goose, Bearger, Bee Queen, Dragonfly, Celestial Champion, Eye of Terror, Klaus. 

 

[edulopes]

3 minutes ago, LDee said:

Bee Queen, Dragonfly, Celestial Champion, The twins*, Klaus. 

the other bosses are easy enough to kill them with every thing

bee queen can easly be cheased by wicker sleep book or pan flute or even catapults or wurt merms( my favorite

CC phase 1 and 2 maxwell execels, CC phase 3 wanda can do it solo no hit using cheese,CC phase 2 cant destroy some objects making him stuck same as shadow walls but cheaper and easier

twins first boss that maxwell is better than any caracter, but now the new hit range made more dificult to kill them as maxwell

klaus is a one mistake loss figth, if you missplace shadows they will kill the deers, not counting that they spawn fire pounds and freeze geisers, so that makes the figth harder for you,
is cheaper and easier to figth as solo maxwell, and use prision for krampus part

eye is easy enough you can face tank it too if you want, so i removed him from the list of REAL bosses

[LDee]

9 hours ago, Thundario Watt said:

I understand that you feel Maxwell's Duelists are OP, yes I think they are OP too, however no matter how OP the Duelists are, Maxwell cannot be used by new players as easy as using Wolfgang / Wendy / beginner-friendly characters. To use Maxwell, a player need to have good knowledge about : 

- Sanity management : Spamming Duelists and Prison sounds easy, but if we Summon 5 Duelist, our max sanity will be 50, casting Shadow Prison twice without recovering sanity will make Nightmare creatures appear and attack us. Yes this can be negated by Bone Helm, but then, how fast a player in a newly created world can defeat Ancient Fuelweaver ?

- how to craft dark sword and night armor : There are a lots of things that a new player need to learn when playing DST, creating Prestihatitator would not be a priority before a player know how to survive each season, repel Deerclops and Bearger and wildfires in summer, not to mention the whole things about cave and ruins...

Yes Maxwell can read Wickerbottom's books, but we need Bone Helm or many stacks of Jelly Salad /ice cream to use the books, how fast we can achieve either of these?

Yes new players can use Maxwell to learn DST but they will probably die from mobs hitting them because Duelist do not always keep aggro on enemies, and because kiting pattern for each mob is different, not to mention how to kite Terrorbeak.. I'm quite sure majority of us was tanking Terrorbeak (or running away from it) before we learned how to kite it on youtube / forum / wiki...

In short, Maxwell is powerful because he is a "reward" type Character that gives strong perks for experienced players to enjoy. When a player knows how to manage incoming damage with good armor, a 75 max health won't be a problem. A player that used in kiting enemies will have no problem kiting enemies while Duelists keep attacking, same with gathering Nightmare fuels, will a new player rush to lower their sanity and able to kite 1-2 Terrorbeaks? or know that rabbits will into beardling with Shadow Sneak? A player needs to have a firm grasp of the game before they can use Maxwell properly (same with Wanda, you can manage the danger in old-age Wanda and kite properly? here's Alarming Clock that slap yer enemy to dead in a tick tock, also here's a way to teleport around the Constant along with your friends because you are so good in DST)

I think Klei purposely designed Maxwell to be able to deal high damage and able to gather resource in more effective way because we experienced players already know the effective ways of gathering resources (grass gekko farm, lureplant boat/farm, pig farm, etc) and we know how to deal with bosses through our research and hours spent on watching youtube videos about DST bosses and reading DST wiki. Then Klei gives us Maxwell that have many perks (and some downside that experienced players can handle) because we have dedicated our time to play their game, it's a win-win solution for Klei and players. Plus, isn't it nice to see our friends enjoying playing Maxwell / Wanda and deal insane amount of damage to help beating the boss faster? it's only a lose-die solution for mobs and bosses in DST (hehehe)

Maxwell is a gift for us that are taking our time here, reading things in forum to learn more about DST because we love DST. I'm sure future reworks of other Characters will be a good one too, seeing how Devs listened well to players' feedback

I'm sure there will be something that I wrote here that is wrong or disagreed on, it has to be, because everyone thinks differently, i'm just sharing my point of view, thanks thanks for reading and peace

 

Sorry, but character balance should exist for players at every skill level, not just those that have just recently installed the game.

Your entire argument falls apart the second you compare Maxwell to literally any other character that isn't beginner friendly such as Warly or Wanda, both of who are FAR more challenging to new players than Maxwell ever was.

4 minutes ago, edulopes said:

the other bosses are easy enough to kill them with every thing

bee queen can easly be cheased by wicker sleep book or pan flute or even catapults or wurt merms( my favorite

CC phase 1 and 2 maxwell execels, CC phase 3 wanda can do it solo no hit using cheese,CC phase 2 cant destroy some objects making him stuck same as shadow walls but cheaper and easier

twins first boss that maxwell is better than any caracter, but now the new hit range made more dificult to kill them as maxwell

klaus is a one mistake loss figth, if you missplace shadows they will kill the deers, not counting that they spawn fire pounds and freeze geisers, so that makes the figth harder for you,
is cheaper and easier to figth as solo maxwell, and use prision for krampus part

eye is easy enough you can face tank it too if you want, so i removed him from the list of REAL bosses

Me: "Here's a list of bosses that Maxwell can beat using the exact same strategy, barely any knowledge about the boss, without having to engage in the fight and with little resources"

edulopes: "Here's a list of completely irrelevant points that have nothing to do with addressing the point you brought up"

[HanTears]

23 hours ago, V2C said:

• Shadow creature targeting changes (multiplayer):
  • For your own shadow creatures, targeting and attacking works the same as usual.
  • When you are insane, targeting and attacking works the same as usual.
  • When you are below 50% sanity but not insane yet, the attack key will no longer auto-target other players’ shadow creatures.  However, you can still target and force attack them.
  • When you are above 50% sanity, you cannot target or force attack other players’ shadow creatures.
  • Please note that as a visual cue, your idle animation changes at 50% sanity.

 

I don't like this change, it prevents players from cooperating, and when a new player is fighting shadow creatures, I can only watch him die. When I'm playing with new players, I can't get the Nightmare Amulet before they get attacked by shadow creatures.
We should not increase the difficulty of other players (especially new players) because of the rework of a character. Last time QOL added a design that is more friendly to novices, so I think this change needs more consideration.

[edulopes]

6 minutes ago, LDee said:

Sorry, but character balance should exist for players at every skill level, not just those that have just recently installed the game.

Your entire argument falls apart the second you compare Maxwell to literally any other character that isn't beginner friendly such as Warly or Wanda, both of who are FAR more challenging to new players than Maxwell ever was.

Me: "Here's a list of bosses that Maxwell can beat using the exact same strategy, barely any knowledge about the boss, without having to engage in the fight and with little resources"

edulopes: "Here's a list of completely irrelevant points that have nothing to do with addressing the point you brought up"

?

i just said what any caracter can do with those bosses with similar level of loot, even using maxwell you need to have boss knolowage,
are you saying that any player can do klaus by just looking at him and anr spamming resources? not counting that they should know about maxwell equipament, that they should know the bosses partterns to lock them up, in the end you need more knolowage with max than other caracters

[skile]

43 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

While Walter, Winona, and warly I don't think were ever planned to be reworked.

Winona did get a refresh, actually. the very first one(not counting characters like Woodie and Maxwell getting changes in dst compared to singleplayer), the update before Wortox addition to the game. before that she only had fast crafting (although with no hunger cost), trusty tape as a cheap sewing kit alternative and 1 free hit from the darkness (I guess it's pretty obvious why she was the 1st one to get a refresh).

but yeah, just like Woodie and Willow, she struggles from having her refresh being one of the first. in Winona's case specifically, while the concept itself is really great, there's just not enough stuff. what we got were 2 generators, which power her structures, and the structures themselves. and while Catapults would find their place in the game as a great tool for making various farms and all that stuff, spotlights are still barely can be considered useful. so essentially, catapults were the only thing added that actually mattered(and yes, as many people might notice, they ARE strong, they ARE useful, but they're just not enough).

when it comes to Willow... I don't actually have much to say. I didn't really play her in singleplayer, neither did I do so in dst pre or post refresh, except for a few hours, maybe. I'll leave this to people who actually play Willow/are interested in Willow.

As for Woodie, I see his main problem in the lack of progression throughout the game. you have Lucy, some flavor perks(which are always nice, but that's besides the point), 3 transformations, accessible from the moment you find spiders or hounds (or anything else that drops monster meat), and that's basically all you have till the very end of the game. now, the transformations themselves... aren't bad. they aren't too great either though. for example Moose, while good at dealing with hordes due to his special attack, isn't too great for pretty much any other fighting scenario, since while you do have 90% innate armor, you also can't heal while transformed (unless Wortox or Wigfrid with her songs come in) and have to work with 130 max hp at best, and that's without mentioning lower attack and walk speeds. the thing about transformations is that they're really cheap to access. and that's pretty great, but it also means that you can't expect too much out of them. so when it comes to mid/end game? using them just tends to be more cucumbersome rather than profitable. if you could utilize some of the many lunar resources there are in game to somehow "upgrade" your wereforms, there could be room for improvement. (another problem of Woodie is that Lunar storms are sorta annoying, but that has been said over and over again already)

[edulopes]

why being so toxic my man @LDee

Edited November 15, 2022 by edulopes

[Gi-Go]

24 minutes ago, LDee said:

Sure:

Deerclopse, Moose/Goose, Bearger, Bee Queen, Dragonfly, Celestial Champion, Eye of Terror, Klaus. 

I wanna see your Maxwell gameplay footage, if you don't mind. You say he is the best character, is super easy, and is in need of nerfs. Serious accusations.

I'd like to actually witness just how OP maxwell is. Can you record a bee queen + dragonfly rush? If it's incredibly easy and fast you'll prove your point in no time.