When Wickbottom is not in the game, please make the bookcase no longer restore durability for the book

[Natsuki Bamboo]

  Maxwell's third beta update is definitely a good one, giving him plenty of power and playability in his own right. However, he will also be able to use Wickbottom's books on a current basis, which will probably make Wickbottom's long-term play meaningless.

  While Maxwell's use of books consumes 2.5 times sanity, his reading ability is not much worse than Wickbottom's in the middle and late game. Because he has a lower san limit than Wickbottom, and his sanity is generally controlled below 50 in the current version, it is easier for him to recover 17.5% (the range where shadow creatures no longer hate) more than Wickbottom's sanity. When getting a bone helmet, reading is generally overdrawn sanity, Wickbottom will be with no need to exist.

  If the bookcase does not regain books durability when Wickerbottom is not present in the game, or at a slower rate (an eighth of its original speed), Wickerbottom will need to continue to exist in the game to play her role, and Maxwell will not be too powerful with the ability to replace Wickbottom.

  Maxwell's ability to read Wickbottom's books, which should have been a minor trait rather than one of the primary abilities, may well have been diverted from its original meaning. It might affect Wurt too, but it's acceptable.

[Mike23Ua]

Remove Maxwells ability to read Wickerbottoms books- Explain it away by him being “Obsessed” with the Codex Umbra.

Listen if only Walter knows how to use a freakin slingshot, Maxwell can be obsessed with only one Tome of Knowledge.

This would make all the cool new perks he has- Shadow Storage, Workers that pick/gather, fighters that teleport, cage traps etc… all Uniquely Maxwell without ALSO being able to use another characters entire gameplay perks.

(complain all you want about shadow fighters being OP enough to Solo Deerclops… Maxwell should no longer be able to do everything Wickerbottom can + His own reworked stuff- Period.)

[Natsuki Bamboo]

I couldn't agree more. It's for the best.

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

删除麦克斯韦阅读威克巴顿书籍的能力 - 通过他“痴迷”于本影手抄本来解释它。

听着，如果只有沃尔特知道如何使用怪异的弹弓，麦克斯韦只能痴迷于一本知识之书。

这将使他拥有的所有很酷的新特权 - 影子存储，拾取/收集的工人，瞬移的战士，笼子陷阱等......所有独特的麦克斯韦，也无法使用其他角色整个游戏特权。

（随心所欲地抱怨影子战士的OP足以独奏鹿......麦克斯韦应该不再能够做威克巴顿能做的一切+他自己重新设计的东西 - 时期。

I couldn't agree more. It's for the best

[astroapyr]

I agree, Wickerbottom isn't very special if Maxwell can do half of what she does, even if he does it worse the penalties can be corrected on the late game. But I don't think that making the bookcase dependant of Wickerbottom to fix the books is the right approach, since in a public server those books could be needed in time and not everyone could be Maxwell to use them.

What if Maxwell could read just one or few of the books Wickerbottom can publish, maybe those related to shadow magic, and leave the penalties? Those could be On Tentacles, Everything Encyclopedia and/or The End is Nigh.  

[Waitdire]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Explain it away by him being “Obsessed” with the Codex Umbra.

It seems to me that this can be beaten in a more interesting way. In order not to lose synergy like Wicker + Maxwell. Now, Maxwell has 2.5 more sanity loss from books. It would be fair if he also spent 2.5 times more durability on books, thus books became ineffective for him, because they all have 1 use.

20% * 2.5 = -50%

33% * 2.5 = -82.5%

Also, the penalty for using books for Maxwell can be increased to 2.75 instead of 2.5, so that he cannot freely use books next to the bookcase.

[maeslay]

19 minutes ago, Waitdire said:

It seems to me that this can be beaten in a more interesting way. In order not to lose synergy like Wicker + Maxwell. Now, Maxwell has 2.5 more sanity loss from books. It would be fair if he also spent 2.5 times more durability on books, thus books became ineffective for him, because they all have 1 use.

20% * 2.5 = -50%

33% * 2.5 = -82.5%

Also, the penalty for using books for Maxwell can be increased to 2.75 instead of 2.5, so that he cannot freely use books next to the bookcase.

Honestly losing more sanity as max is more of a buff than anything lmao

[Natsuki Bamboo]

22 minutes ago, Waitdire said:

It seems to me that this can be beaten in a more interesting way. In order not to lose synergy like Wicker + Maxwell. Now, Maxwell has 2.5 more sanity loss from books. It would be fair if he also spent 2.5 times more durability on books, thus books became ineffective for him, because they all have 1 use.

20% * 2.5 = -50%

33% * 2.5 = -82.5%

Also, the penalty for using books for Maxwell can be increased to 2.75 instead of 2.5, so that he cannot freely use books next to the bookcase.

That won't solve the problem. Just make 2.5 times as many books to put on the bookcase, and  Wickerbottom will never need to show up again

[Gi-Go]

Maxwell shouldn't be able to read her books. simple as that. 

[Bearger Enjoyer]

Removing or nerfing his access to books won't make him or Wicker any more fun, simple as that. Wicker's continued presence may become 'more special', but that will simply slightly worsen lategame for just one character @ solo worlds and have effectively zero meaning in multiplayer.

If you get to a point where you can use bone helm for books, you deserve to bypass that downside. A lot of players haven't even seen FW in-game yet.

Not to mention how people treat 75 hp as the end of the world. Most will stick to Wicker just for 50 more, just as before.

[Copyafriend]

I think i agree. I wanted him to keep wickerbottoms books until his rework, now that he is a more interesting and fleshed out character im fine with him losing them now

[edulopes]

So If you dont have wurt on map  merms should Go hostile, If you dont have winons the catapults should not work, the Maxwell chest should not work....

Bernie should not work...

 

Wigfrid helm should vanish

Warly foods should Go bad

[Natsuki Bamboo]

Please don't steal the concept, 95 percent of  Wickerbottom's powers are attached to her books and Maxwell has a lot of great powers besides reading. This would make  Wickerbottom like Winona and Wally (yes, they would be better off if they did what you say) lose the point of a long play. But other characters have a lot of playability in addition to their shared abilities.

4 hours ago, edulopes said:

So If you dont have wurt on map  merms should Go hostile

If there were no Wurt in the world, the merms would indeed be hostile after the death of the King.

4 hours ago, edulopes said:

the Maxwell chest should not work

Maxwell's chest can only be opened at Shadowchester or a fixed location, which isn't as portable as a top hat, and Maxwell's other abilities are excellent.

4 hours ago, edulopes said:

Bernie should not work...

Other people who use Bernie don't get the full effect of it, and Bernie is only a part of Willon's power.

4 hours ago, edulopes said:

Wigfrid helm should vanish

Battle helm is a consumable, and when it's finished, Wigford has to make it, and Wigford's ability is excellent.

[Mike23Ua]

4 hours ago, edulopes said:

So If you dont have wurt on map  merms should Go hostile, If you dont have winons the catapults should not work, the Maxwell chest should not work....

Bernie should not work...

 

Wigfrid helm should vanish

Warly foods should Go bad

It’s not the same as ripping a characters entire ability list from her and giving it to another character who now has his own really cool abilities.

You would be better off if you pretend Klei allowed WX78 to craft all and use all of Winona’s abilities.

And as someone who enjoys playing as Winona I still say her structures should be underground trap doors that only activate when SHE is nearby. The same trap doors Klei uses for the Grub feeding mini game for Cawnival event.

[Seafood Dinner]

What if instead of flat out removing Maxwell's ability to read Wickerbottom's books, it's changed so that the books' spells are only half as effective (or less) when casted by Max?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

i will never understand these suggestions. Max being able to read wicker books doesnt hurt anybody and removing it doesnt improve the game. Same goes for winona's structures or warly's dishes

[abominacja]

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i will never understand this suggestions. Max being able to read wicker books doesnt hurt anybody and removing it doesnt improve the game. Same goes for winona's structures or warly's dishes

Totally agree with that. Especially if it changes nothing for other players, maxwell always was able to read wickerbottom books and I don't know why something that fun to use should be deleted

[Cheggf]

You can choose to not use the Celestial Portal if you think it's too strong and making characters irrelevant.

[blacknight7890]

Why are we even debating this? It two different characters with two different power sets. Just because max can read her books, doesn't mean he can make them, or the library. Sure, once you make the books you could argue that wicker could just leave, but it's not a requirement. There is literally absolutely nothing in the game that forces you to switch characters or leave another behind. The only thing that does that is the idea of "optimization", which is entirely the fault of the player, not the game.

It's a synergy, not a death sentence, chill out.

[Mike23Ua]

Flipping the roles a bit- can anyone but Wendy/Walter/Wanda and now also Maxwell use their character exclusive crafts?

the answer is no… no they can not, so WHY Is this still the exception?

[Cheggf]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Flipping the roles a bit- can anyone but Wendy/Walter/Wanda and now also Maxwell use their character exclusive crafts?

the answer is no… no they can not, so WHY Is this still the exception?

I think Warly and Walter can use Willow's lighter. I know everyone can use her bear. 

[Natsuki Bamboo]

It's not a bad idea, but it might not be easy. Make all the books one-third as effective as they were before.

"On Tentacles "，"Apicultural Notes "，"The Angler's Survival Guide" and "Birds of the World" all call for about a third as many creatures.

The scope of "Applied Silviculture"，"Pyrokinetics Explained"，"Tempering Temperatures" and "The Everything Encyclopedia"' is reduced to one third of its original scope.

The duration of "Lux Aeterna, Redux", and "Overcoming Arachnophobia" are reduced to one third of the original duration.

The number of ridged crops, Horticulture, Abridged and Expanded, was reduced by 40 percent to four and six plants.

World-changing magic such as "Lunar Grimoire" and "Practical RainRituals" could not be used by Maxwell, and the power of the lunar could not be mastered by Maxwell.

"The End is Nigh!" and "Sleepytime Stories" had the same effect because it was the shadow magic that Maxwell was familiar with.
 

[GNGR bred boi]

Perhaps they should make a way for Wickerbottom's books to be specially charged by Wickerbottom (The bookcase still exists, but maybe add another way to recharge the books faster using a feather pencil or nightmare fuel, that only Wickerbottom can do, similar to how only Willow can cook with her lighter, but other players can still use her lighter.) This would make Wickerbottom able to use her books more than Maxwell, but I don't know that might be too big of a buff? 

I really don't know, I just think Maxwell being unable to read Wickerbottom's books wouldn't make much sense. 

[ZeRoboButler]

Out of curiosity, has anyone who doesn't want to see other characters using other characters perks and items, actually switched characters for the express purpose of using another characters buffs? Is this a legitimacy issue? like suddenly the world your playing on has been tainted by the fact it happened? Or is there something else going on here? 

I genuinely am not sure why the concept of the "swap character" is such a topic of discussion, other than the fact that it could be considered a issue with the character in question and their impact on the game when they are in it or not.

Personally, I don't swap characters, I love to play as what ever I chose in the beginning, and when I did try swapping, I'll felt weird about it and just go back to my other character.

But back to the topic at hand, Is this really an issue with some one else using the other persons perks, or is it a problem to some that some characters are defined by the items they bring to the table? I simply wish to understand where others are coming from here, no dismissal just a comprehensive understanding of what people think the issue is.  

[Zeklo]

Huh. I never thought about it that way.

As a whole I hate 'swap characters', because they make me just want to... pick a non-swap character. That's really all.

I'm not sure this is the way to go about it though. It's a quick fix, but giving something to Wicker rather than taking something from Max, would be more ideal.

[Lil K]

17 hours ago, Waitdire said:

It seems to me that this can be beaten in a more interesting way. In order not to lose synergy like Wicker + Maxwell. Now, Maxwell has 2.5 more sanity loss from books. It would be fair if he also spent 2.5 times more durability on books, thus books became ineffective for him, because they all have 1 use.

20% * 2.5 = -50%

33% * 2.5 = -82.5%

Also, the penalty for using books for Maxwell can be increased to 2.75 instead of 2.5, so that he cannot freely use books next to the bookcase.

This, great idea! If they made the book break after every use of Maxwell it would be ok for me too, but keep the interaction with him and wickers books, I love these unique character interactions.