Change original suspicious marble set piece?

[Cassielu]

So, my thought was, if Charlie now has her own version of the carpet and marble floor, why not let the suspicious marble set piece use them too? As far as I know they were also made by Charlie.

[hhh2]

Because... I WILL steal the turf. MUHAHAHAHA!

[Milordo]

I still need to find to this day someone who explains to me what the heck are the shadows chess in the lore  

Like if Charlie made them theoretically, then why they drop literally the soul of the king/other ruler of the Ancients. 

[GodIess]

chess is Maxwell's creation

[Milordo]

Just now, GodIess said:

chess is Maxwell's creation

Nope. The normal clockworks are made from Wagstaff, I'm pretty sure of that. Maxwell steal them from him. 

I was asking, what the shadow chess are.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

27 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Nope. The normal clockworks are made from Wagstaff, I'm pretty sure of that. Maxwell steal them from him. 

I was asking, what the shadow chess are.

maxwell created the clockworks,not wagstaff.Max has quotes that show this like the quote from the archives toilets, something like "i miss understood the original design" (bishops are made with the pieces of these fountains of knowledge) or the quote from the complete marble statues "what she did to my creations" (charlie covered his clockworks with marble)

wagstaff only worked on wx body before stopping the experiment

[Milordo]

23 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

maxwell created the clockworks,not wagstaff.Max has quotes that show this like the quote from the archives toilets, something like "i miss understood the original design" (bishops are made with the pieces of these fountains of knowledge) or the quote from the complete marble statues "what she did to my creations" (charlie covered his clockworks with marble)

wagstaff only worked on wx body before stopping the experiment

Ah right dammit. I forgot about those quotes. Then there is a problem or I may misunderstood everything, because wagstaff quotes allude he created the clockworks. He even has a special picture about goverment stuff on the wall in the Winona trailer and If I'm correct Orange too said this in his video. Where Maxwell didn't stole clockworks but even the gramophone and divining rod too.

And even after all this, what the heck are the shadow chess? xD

[ArubaroBeefalo]

8 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Ah right dammit. I forgot about those quotes. Then there is a problem or I may misunderstood everything, because wagstaff quotes allude he created the clockworks. He even has a special picture about goverment stuff on the wall in the Winona trailer and If I'm correct Orange too said this in his video. Where Maxwell didn't stole clockworks but even the gramophone and divining rod too.

And even after all this, what the heck are the shadow chess? xD

any of the quotes give any hint about him being the creator and these 2 quotes tell us just the opposite

 

also the wall in the winona trailer isnt wagstaff's wall, is winona investigation because she is looking for her sister charlie, for that she ended up working in the wagstaff factory since all the hints point to wagstaff so she worked there to investigate him

edit: about the shadow chess, most likely are charlie creation by possesing the clock works with NF so the survivors can make ancient gateway shenanigans for her. That or a plot hole that is messed because some lore isnt translate correctly into gameplay

[Milordo]

28 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

edit: about the shadow chess, most likely are charlie creation by possesing the clock works with NF so the survivors can make ancient gateway shenanigans for her. That or a plot hole that is messed because some lore isnt translate correctly into gameplay

Thanks for the explanation, very appreciate.

It always seemed to me that the shadow chess are some sorta of mega plot hole or "we made them because why not" from Klei. At first when I was blind I thought "they were some sorta of guardians, soldiers or important ancient people, linked to the Ancient ruler aka Ancient fuelweaver (like Hollow Knight Dreamers) that you resurrect from the grave. I thought this because in the last form the shadow chess assume a more bug-arthopod body style. 

Now that I know Charlie made them... it's like.... really confusing. If Charlie always had the Ancient fuelweaver soul then... why she made us fight her creation? Maybe it needs a fight ritual? Then why the clockworks??? Really confusing. If you add, we don't know what happened after Ancient fuelweaver remained the last of his kind and sat on the throne. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

11 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Thanks for the explanation, very appreciate.

It always seemed to me that the shadow chess are some sorta of mega plot hole or "we made them because why not" from Klei. At first when I was blind I thought "they were some sorta of guardians, soldiers or important ancient people, linked to the Ancient ruler aka Ancient fuelweaver (like Hollow Knight Dreamers) that you resurrect from the grave. I thought this because in the last form the shadow chess assume a more bug-arthopod body style. 

Now that I know Charlie made them... it's like.... really confusing. If Charlie always had the Ancient fuelweaver soul then... why she made us fight her creation? Maybe it needs a fight ritual? Then why the clockworks??? Really confusing. If you add, we don't know what happened after Ancient fuelweaver remained the last of his kind and sat on the throne. 

dont take my word as 100% confirmed lore. I just barely remember the max's quote i mentioned about them being Charlie's creation

i wish they keep adding performance to the new stage so these thing can have a better explanation 

[. . .]

if that does happen I would want it to be a random chance to get either because I like the current ones and don't want them fully replaced by something else

[-Variant]

7 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

maxwell created the clockworks

I feel like Maxwell is taking credit for them, not literally being the one who made them all.
The entire Army doesn't feel like something Maxwell would make and just abandon for eons.
He had the power of the Throne, I doubt he needed an army. AKA: The military biome.
He also mentions someone else being responsible for making the Ruins Clockworks.

His quote for other clockworks implies to me that he's simply taking credit for repairing them.

Also we see the Ancients making the clockworks in the murals.

[Szczuku]

7 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

maxwell created the clockworks

17 minutes ago, -Variant said:

I feel like Maxwell is taking credit for them, not literally being the one who made them all.
The entire Army doesn't feel like something Maxwell would make and just abandon for eons.
He had the power of the Throne, I doubt he needed an army. AKA: The military biome.
He also mentions someone else being responsible for making the Ruins Clockworks.

The lore is a bit messy here, since Ruins are kinda in a desparate need of a refresh and Klei made the lore of clockworks even worse, but here goes what I've gathered about the mechs.

The repaired ones we find on the surface were 100% repaired by Maxwell, some probably repaired from the ruins, some made from scratch once Maxwell got the hang of it.

He discovered the clockworks originally in the ruins, when they've already been damaged by the nightmare exposure. Clockworks were made by the Ancients or more specifically, the King (with his shadow-powered staff)

However, the bishop is a tricky one. One of Maxwell's quotes for fountain of knowledge goes something like this: "I must've misinterpreted the design" which suggests that clockwork bishops never actually existed in the ruins, that maxwell looked at a broken liquid reservoir and came up with an idea of a lightbulb-headed bishop clockwork. So what's up with the damaged version? 3 posibilities:

1) Maxwell placed some in the ruins

2) Ruins are outdated, need a proper refresh and once it happens damaged bishops will be gone/explained in a different way

3) Klei retconned their own lore, before it was even shown to us. Shadow Pieces. What are they? Why do they look like the clockworks? What's their importance in the lore? I mean, they hold the AF's heart (aka the Ancient King), so they've gotta be important right? Well my theory always was that the Shadow Pieces are Their servants. At some point in the history of ruins They sent out SP(in their lvl 1 forms) to 'communicate' with the King (after the gateway had been constructed and such). Only he could see them (hence why no mention in the murals). They taught him how to do all the miracles that we see in the murals. And so, in their image, he created the clockworks. In reality they were just influencing him to use more shadows so that They could break the gateway more and more leading to the Ruins being... well in ruins. In the end, when only the King remained, SP (in their lvl 3 forms) arrived to claim what was left of him, trapping the King for all eternity in the shadow atrium and guarding it.

But Klei never gave us as much as a scrap of lore related to those guys (outside of the atrium they drop) 

[Jinjetica]

I like the set-pieces as they are

[minespatch]

2 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Klei retconned their own lore, before it was even shown to us. Shadow Pieces. What are they? Why do they look like the clockworks?

There's also those clockworks on Winona's conspiracy board in the Winona short.

[Milordo]

3 hours ago, Szczuku said:

--sip--

From the bottom of my heart, I love this post. The clockworks plot hole is bigger than the ocean itself and made me crazy for years. Every year I come back for these guys and think what is their business. We started with a cool analogy with Maxwell playing chess with us and then discovering he and we were always pawns to the real player to "magic skadalle!" lol.

Your interpretation about the lore of the shadow chess is really cool, although I would prefer the Ancients doing the clockworks or robots in general to their image, but always in a arthopodic-bug style, like the ones in the Archives. And then Maxwell found them scattered and brokens, not understanding how they were and built the clockworks himself. We can insert Wagstaff in the mix with "Maxwell stole his tecnology, studies and projects, not really the clockworks itself. That's why they're so similar to other Wagstaff inventions, like WX or the divine rod"  

[Waoling]

3 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Shadow Pieces. What are they? Why do they look like the clockworks?

Maybe they just confidently look like the clock works, or maybe they just took the shape of the clock because Charlie's trapped them in there, or it's just that the survivor's minds can't quite the shadow piece's true form so they took a form closet to where they came from.