Winona needs Wortox-like tweaks in next character refresh

[maxwell_winters]

2 minutes ago, JustExo said:

I've been seeing a ton of comments recently talking about how winona needs a rework, and I have no idea why that's the case as of late specifically

Firstly, Klei started giving huge changes to characters outside of reworks (Wurt and Wortox). Secondly, the recent reworks of Wickerbottom and WX-78 gave them so many tools to play with that Winona's rework fade in comparison.

[Yuuko]

Winona has needed a second pass since the first one...  Even when she was initially reworked she was hit too hard with penalties b/c they were worried her powers were too strong and it was just too much.

1) Remove the hunger drain when crafting.  This is a needless and tedious penalty for early game when she already can't do much to impress.

2) Remove the slow crafting when hungry.  Its bad enough she crafts normal speed, making her craft slower than Wanda when old is too much.  Just have her craft normal speed when hungry.

3) Let her repair a lot of tools with tape.  If you think saving a few twigs is going to break the game ur just wrong.  I'd go as far as saying anything with % durability could be repaired by some rate with tape without it ruining the game considering how renewable everything in the game is anyway.

4) Extend generator range.  Considering the generator takes up space as well it really cramps what she can do.

5) Allow her to pause her generators.  And for all the WiNoNa PiK sWaP bAD! - you can even make it so only Winona can turn them off.  Still let everyone fuel them, but let Wanda at least halt their production so she can leave them fueled for later.

6) Spot light should light a cone from the spot light to the player its targeting and beyond for a fixed range so someone standing close to the light could see very far.  This always bugged me how little light it produces.  If it produced a cone that always illuminated ~14 tiles distance ~5 tiles wide at the extreme it would be a lot more useful.

7) MORE CRAFTS - srsly - she has no early game to speak of, and her catapults aren't enough to justify this.  She should have an assortment of tools she can equip that can help with production.  I think a hand + body equipable chainsaw machine that lets her cut trees, grass and twigs at a reasonable speed walking into them.  A thumber she can install on rocky or barren turf that generates minerals the same as a cave in can, with a chance to spawn depths worms that attack the machine.  These can be fueled with bio fuel, so you feed it things like spider glans, monster meats etc.  (maybe for cross character synergy WX can also use these and be the fuel source using their charge?)

8) Probably a lot more and still not be a top tier meta pick.

She should probably have a new downside.  Maybe she doesn't gain sanity from many sources - because she is a realist in a fantasy world.  She could be limited to gaining sanity from crock pot recipes, and 50% rate from clothes as they seem civil and remind her of her life.  Non-crock pot foods will not restore any sanity.  She will still be effected by negative auras etc she won't get any sanity perk to balance this, its just her down side.

[Notecja]

I liked not too old idea of giving her personal toolbox. At least she would be able to to carry as much tools she wants (like pick/axe, moonglas axe).

And maybe sort of repairing hammer, to fix burnt things and things like tents? 

[NekoSoulx]

15 minutes ago, Notecja said:

I liked not too old idea of giving her personal toolbox. At least she would be able to to carry as much tools she wants (like pick/axe, moonglas axe).

And maybe sort of repairing hammer, to fix burnt things and things like tents? 

This and make the spotlight useful for more than decoration. 

[Rylanor]

Spotlight main issue is that its simply not useful in comparison right now. You can't turn off generator to at least store unused energy, if generator run out of power you just stuck in complete darkness, no matter how much nitre/gems you got to refuel it. You can't use it for heat, you can't use it for cooling, you can't cook on it, you can't use it to dry. Only 2 niches in have is being unaffected by rain and not forcing you to make trip to the caves so often to refuel lanterns/miner hats. I though like idea to make light in cone-shaped, especially how out of place spotlight itself looks in darkness.

[Evelo]

28 minutes ago, Notecja said:

I liked not too old idea of giving her personal toolbox. At least she would be able to to carry as much tools she wants (like pick/axe, moonglas axe).

And maybe sort of repairing hammer, to fix burnt things and things like tents? 

That sounds like a really cute variation of the Tackle Box. I'm sure there can be a mod of that, the important thing (I think at least) is making it only accessible to Winona.

[GrapeVruit]

I've already put my two cents in the Winona Refresh Refund thread, but in case you haven't seen it, here are some ideas I listed about some new gadgets that she could make:

Winona's Toolbox: A small, portable red Toolbox that can store up to 4 items.

 

Winona's Speedpad: A small circular boost pad placed upon the ground that increases movement speed by 50% for 10 seconds after passing over the pad. The Speedpad goes on a cooldown for 15 seconds. 

 

The Vacuum Pack 3000: A mechanical 8 slot backpack that is able to suck up any items that are left on the ground, similar to the lazy forager. However, the more slots that are filled within the Vacuum Pack, it will decrease the wearer's movement speed by 15%. If you're looking to vacuum up certain items, such as rocks or logs, you can socket said item into the Vacuum Pack's finder slot. 

 

Winona's Sprinkler: A small sprinkler that is able to douse fires and water plants, though it does have less range and takes a little longer to get to burning objects than a Flingomatic.

 

Winona's Marvelous Multitool: An automated multitool that acts as an axe, pickaxe, shovel and a hammer. Unlike regular tools, Winona's multitool requires fuel, such as nitre or gold in order to function, and will passively drain said fuel until the tool's durability reaches 0%. When out of fuel, the multitool can still be used, but it take a lot longer to get chores done, similar to how much work Wes does. This tool can only be used by Winona.

At the end of the day, I just want Winona to have more going for her than just a catapult. 

[The_Tomcat]

Id love winona having more tools. For an engineer type character, she is more a one trick pony now. One of them could be a thumper device that would chop trees/mine rocks around when on the surface and drop gems/rocks in the caves like earthquakes do, maybe with the risk if summoning a cave worm.

Then there is the issue of her being pick and swap character. I like the idea of her being able to fix currently non-fixable weapons and armor when using tapes, while for other characters her tapes would continue to work like the saw kit.

Also, maybe her rapid crafting could be improved to grant her sanity everytime the hunger penalty kicks in? Sacrificing 5 hunger for like 5 sanity PLUS faster crafting wouldnt feel so bad.

[HiraaCaan]

5 hours ago, JustExo said:

I've been seeing a ton of comments recently talking about how winona needs a rework, and I have no idea why that's the case as of late specifically

 

winona realy needs a rework
playing winona be like : setup catapults to beequen,giant frog...  and leave server or change character

[Horsheen]

19 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

 A way to make a portable generator and a weaker portable catapult would be nice as well.

While I was reading this an idea of like....a catapult backpack popped into my head, where it just lobs rocks at whatever you're fighting at

I think that'd be pretty cool

[lakhnish]

7 hours ago, JustExo said:

I've been seeing a ton of comments recently talking about how winona needs a rework, and I have no idea why that's the case as of late specifically

We only have two reworks left and since there are talks of Willow getting a better rework (cause she looks cool in the Wicker trailer as a pyro but was shafted in her pyro aspect in her rework).

That and the devs are touching up on other characters now alongside reworks, unlike before.

Might as well get it out of the way now so we don't have to deal with this when the new roadmap in 2023 happens and the focus is on whatever all the setup is for this year for the story of the game.

[Cheggf]

Everybody always comes at Winona from the wrong angle. Want to rework her because if they want to they have the option of using the celestial portal to switch to a character more fitting for what they're doing (just like literally every single other character). You guys should just drop that fake made up issue and look at the real one: she's boring. An extra Winona refresh based on making her more fun would be good, but if the intent is focused on trying to make her not a "swap character" then the effort will be misplaced. 

[NekoSoulx]

29 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Everybody always comes at Winona from the wrong angle. Want to rework her because if they want to they have the option of using the celestial portal to switch to a character more fitting for what they're doing (just like literally every single other character). You guys should just drop that fake made up issue and look at the real one: she's boring. An extra Winona refresh based on making her more fun would be good, but if the intent is focused on trying to make her not a "swap character" then the effort will be misplaced. 

First the concept "fun" and "boring" is really subjective, i can agree with some people that she is simple but never that she is boring.

Second in my experience in this forum the majority of people that talk about a Winona new "rework" almost always suggest to just add new gadgets, which is lame in my opinion, thats cause these people think of her like some kind of inventor like wagstaff or wilson which is not true. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

Second in my experience in this forum the majority of people that talk about a Winona new "rework" almost always suggest to just add new gadgets, which is lame in my opinion, thats cause these people think of her like some kind of inventor like wagstaff or wilson which is not true

is a handywoman so she create tools, for that she has a spotlight and catapults and for that she needs more 

wagstaff, and maybe wilson in his rework, has tools but more in the "science thematic"

[lakhnish]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Everybody always comes at Winona from the wrong angle. Want to rework her because if they want to they have the option of using the celestial portal to switch to a character more fitting for what they're doing (just like literally every single other character). You guys should just drop that fake made up issue and look at the real one: she's boring. An extra Winona refresh based on making her more fun would be good, but if the intent is focused on trying to make her not a "swap character" then the effort will be misplaced. 

But she's both though?

She's boring AND she's a swap character.

Warly may be a swap character for some but he definitely isn't boring like Winona.

[NekoSoulx]

9 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

But she's both though?

She's boring AND she's a swap character.

Warly may be a swap character for some but he definitely isn't boring like Winona.

thats subjective, she is boring to you, not to everyone.

 

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

is a handywoman so she create tools, for that she has a spotlight and catapults and for that she needs more 

wagstaff, and maybe wilson in his rework, has tools but more in the "science thematic"

ahhhhhh no, she doesnt need more gadgets, her origin is just the builder character. Not long ago i made a post with a more interesting idea than "just give her more machines" non sense a lot of people want. But to be honest i dont mind if klei just take the path of "more machines", at the end i would enjoy whatever klei give to us.  cx

[Dextops]

2 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

thats subjective, she is boring to you, not to everyone.

i mean if she only has one good perk and you don't even need to be her for it then that's kind of iffy and that's not a reason to not add more to her

4 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

ahhhhhh no, she doesnt need more gadgets, her origin is just the builder character. Not long ago i made a post with a more interesting idea than "just give her more machines" non sense a lot of people want. But to be honest i dont mind if klei just take the path of "more machines", at the end i would enjoy whatever klei give to us.  cx

She desperately needs more gadgets like really really badly, she has a single good one which is an upgraded version of something that already exists and after you make them you don't need to even play her. She needs more of everything cause right now she is just lacking in every department 

[NekoSoulx]

18 minutes ago, Dextops said:

i mean if she only has one good perk and you don't even need to be her for it then that's kind of iffy and that's not a reason to not add more to her

:). I used to main her even before the rework so for me the extra craft speed was good enough. And i never tried to make it a reason to not add more to her kit, its just that she is not boring for me, simple as that.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Dextops said:

She desperately needs more gadgets like really really badly, she has a single good one which is an upgraded version of something that already exists and after you make them you don't need to even play her. She needs more of everything cause right now she is just lacking in every department 

I dont think so, the catapults are really good and i dont really think she "desperately" need something new, but as i said before if klei is gonna give her something i dont think new gadgets is the correct way to go, that just sounds like a cheap and bad idea. That sounds like: "ahhhh she is so boring to play, please klei give her more gadgets, Grrrrr GADGETS!!!"

[lakhnish]

41 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

thats subjective, she is boring to you, not to everyone

Here's what Winona perks are:

Non-Swap perks:

One free hit from Charlie (is whatever)

Loses 5 hunger every minute if she crafts. (Boring and at times annoying).

Swap Perks:

Fast crafting after that hunger consumption (very swappy perk. Mass refine your several hundred logs, rope, or whatever and throw her back into the portal).

Tape for boats/ cheap sewing kit (mass craft, throw her back into the portal.

2 generators to make power (only need Winona to craft it, high swap potential for WX.)

Spotlights (not that great, again swap perk).

Catapults: farm almost every mob and boss on the game, swap once you're done making it.

Literally only two perks about Winona stays with her and they have minimal impact while the ones that have impact don't need Winona post her crafting it.

I can make all the swap perks and play as Wilson and I'll have a more "fun" experience with Wilson's beard and it would be like I was Winona.

Super low incentive to stay as her (and I have played as her). 

This is why I think she was and still is a garbage rework. She DESERVES better than this.

[NekoSoulx]

21 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

Here's what Winona perks are:

Non-Swap perks:

One free hit from Charlie (is whatever)

Loses 5 hunger every minute if she crafts. (Boring and at times annoying).

Swap Perks:

Fast crafting after that hunger consumption (very swappy perk. Mass refine your several hundred logs, rope, or whatever and throw her back into the portal).

Tape for boats/ cheap sewing kit (mass craft, throw her back into the portal.

2 generators to make power (only need Winona to craft it, high swap potential for WX.)

Spotlights (not that great, again swap perk).

Catapults: farm almost every mob and boss on the game, swap once you're done making it.

Literally only two perks about Winona stays with her and they have minimal impact while the ones that have impact don't need Winona post her crafting it.

I can make all the swap perks and play as Wilson and I'll have a more "fun" experience with Wilson's beard and it would be like I was Winona.

Super low incentive to stay as her (and I have played as her). 

This is why I think she was and still is a garbage rework. She DESERVES better than this.

Wow i dont know what this have to do with the fact that fun is a subjective thing but ok xD, and again i never said that she doesnt deserves better, its just that she is good and fun to me, gosh i hate when people want to talk for others, if she is boring for you that doesnt mean she is boring for everyone geez.

Oh and one last thing, you forgot one perk my friend. This perk is niche and idk if you would consider this as a swap perk or a non swap perk but it sure is interesting. She can identify wagstaff tools during the moonstorm. But dont feel bad everyone forget about this perk, only a Nona main would remember this one.

[maxwell_winters]

1 hour ago, NekoSoulx said:

she doesnt need more gadgets, her origin is just the builder character. 

First, she is an engineer. Second, she has inventor skills as character quotes imply that she helped to invent Jimmy (Wickerbottom: "I suspect our resident handywoman might have assisted with its construction."). Even so. if she is not an inventor, it doesn't prevent adding new tools.  Woodie doesn't understand magic. It was Wickerbottom who helped Woodie to create idols. The explanation for Winona's new tools might be that they created them together with WX. 

[lakhnish]

22 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

Wow i dont know what this have to do with the fact that fun is a subjective thing but ok xD, and again i never said that she doesnt deserves better, its just that she is good and fun to me, gosh i hate when people want to talk for others, if she is boring for you that doesnt mean she is boring for everyone geez.

Oh and one last thing, you forgot one perk my friend. This perk is niche and idk if you would consider this as a swap perk or a non swap perk but it sure is interesting. She can identify wagstaff tools during the moonstorm. But dont feel bad everyone forget about this perk, only a Nona main would remember this one

I'm a Wagstaff main so I know his tools by heart /s.

The perks are related to the "fun" of the character and while it may be subjective, what is objective was Klei's statement about what their goals for reworks:

Quote

Character Refreshes
The team also felt it was high time we gave our core cast some love (yes, we heard you). Over the course of the next year, we will be bestowing every character with revamped abilities, and give a glimpse into their backstory. Our goals here are to make each character unique, interesting and valuable in their own right and we expect this to be game changing in many ways.

For what's in bold,with the way the designed Winon, she fails in everty department (from being Wilson clone to an even lesser state of being a swap character). 

I'm sorry for being overbearing, it's just that whenever Winona is brought up, I just get frustrated at what Klei did to her and how it just got worse overtime as other reworks were way better than what happpened to Winona (for the most part).

[skile]

3 hours ago, NekoSoulx said:

, thats cause these people think of her like some kind of inventor like wagstaff or wilson which is not true. 

but one of her perks literally says "invents her own gadgets"? do you think she specifically learned to build catapults in the factory or something? 

[NekoSoulx]

24 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

First, she is an engineer. Second, she has inventor skills as character quotes imply that she helped to invent Jimmy (Wickerbottom: "I suspect our resident handywoman might have assisted with its construction."). Even so. if she is not an inventor, it doesn't prevent adding new tools.  Woodie doesn't understand magic. It was Wickerbottom who helped Woodie to create idols. The explanation for Winona's new tools might be that they created them together with WX. 

That doesnt invalidate my point, she doesnt need new gadgets to be interesting and funny, even worse they are the cheap way to improve Winona right now at least in my opinion, thats all.

15 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

I'm a Wagstaff main so I know his tools by heart /s.

The perks are related to the "fun" of the character and while it may be subjective, what is objective was Klei's statement about what their goals for reworks:

For what's in bold,with the way the designed Winon, she fails in everty department (from being Wilson clone to an even lesser state of being a swap character). 

I'm sorry for being overbearing, it's just that whenever Winona is brought up, I just get frustrated at what Klei did to her and how it just got worse overtime as other reworks were way better than what happpened to Winona (for the most part).

To be honest i do feel that the recent reworks had been so great that they make Nona's rework looks cheap, but as i said before there are better ways to improve this character than "more machines klei please".

 

[NekoSoulx]

43 minutes ago, skile said:

but one of her perks literally says "invents her own gadgets"? do you think she specifically learned to build catapults in the factory or something? 

Do you know the meaning of the word invent?, Do you think generators and catapults are a invention of Winona?, sure she can make them but that doesnt mean she invented those things. And a lot of her quotes are about hard work and how some mobs are lazy, her personality is more oriented towards a builder/engineer than a creative inventor, she is not a scientific woman. She is a strong builder and if you have any doubt if she is an inventor or not, well she doesnt even know how the gemerator works...