Hostile Flares eliminates the rationality of the old Deerclops raid mechanism

[Cheggf]

17 minutes ago, Notecja said:

Since Wicker rework I never had to use Eyebrella. That I said.

And since I played with different groups of people, I know for most of them Deerclops is still a huge deal (ofc not for those in that 800 days world, but in other games).

If the eyebrella never needs to be used because everyone is guaranteed to have a Wickerbottom constantly turning the rain off why are you against removing dc being able to spawn? Surely it wouldn't change anything. 

[Notecja]

2 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

If the eyebrella never needs to be used because everyone is guaranteed to have a Wickerbottom constantly turning the rain off why are you against removing dc being able to spawn? Surely it wouldn't change anything. 

You have assumed that. But I like to farm red light from winter feast deerclops and use him as spider farmer. c:  (also to get rid of treeguards... But you can use bearger for that)

[Starlogy]

Man, I just like being able to get multiple Eyebrellas for my homies before Spring. Being able to fight Deerclops multiple times is an added bonus. It's upsetting to hear the Hostile Flare has been controversial so far.

[cybers2001]

Honestly I could see this being solved with just a mod that can be called "More Flares!" Flares that can summon literally anything you want to fight.

[Bellium]

4 hours ago, Rylanor said:

Except Beefalo Hat is useful only one season, unlike Eyebrella. Also, 100% wetness protection + full lighting protection in single headwear slot AND best insulation in summer is kinda better than Beefalo Hat idk.

I did state multiple times in my explanation that it's equivilant to a beefalo hat in summer, and seperated out it's use case for spring (as summer and winter are direct parallels whereas spring is more of its own thing) sorry if that wasn't clear enough for you. And yes! It being best for two seasons does make it better than the beefalo hat. However, considering the beefalo hat has 20% rain resistance, the eyebrella is as good as a beefalo hat + umbrella. Sure it takes up a hand slot, but as I stated in a different comment having to forgo a hand slot for 100% rain protection is no issue to me and I'm assuming other players as well, as it is a trade off for using an item easier to acquire.

Many people play don't starve, not all of them "veterans" with hundreds of hours in the game, for some people, the difficulty and presitiege of the eyebrella comes from waiting a full in game year (almost 10 hours if I remeber correctly), and getting lucky with a roll. For others newer to the game or who prefer a more chill aproach, actually defeating the deerclops is where the challange lies.

Spoiler

Personally, I've never seen waiting as a fun or engaging game mechanic, timing precise things? Sure! But waiting 10 hours to fight a boss some consider easy seems pointless to me and only serves to only detract from more fun elements in games. If you think you have what it takes to fight the clops day after day in winter, go ahead, it's your challange. If you think the fun and challange comes from waiting around a while until deerclops arrives on her own schedual, then luckily no ones making you craft the dang thing. 

 

[Spirit Glow]

11 hours ago, Cheggf said:

I agree with all the people saying to just not use it if you don't like it. I think we should go a bit further, though, and add a new item to the game that's an indestructible 95% dr, 100% wetness resist, 480 insulation against both weathers, 6.7san/m, -75% hunger drain helmet as a starting item to all characters. If you don't want to use it you can simply drop it on the floor when you spawn, so this would surely only improve the game with no potential drawbacks. 

I say we go the opposite route and make every character have 0 sanity, 99% hunger drain, and make everything 1 shot you. Then people can truly have the "uncompromising" experience they've been yearning for in these forums.

[Cassielu]

Ugh, so this topic goes trapped in "Is this item OP?" too.

It's not about number of digital trinketry...

[Cheggf]

30 minutes ago, Spirit Glow said:

I say we go the opposite route and make every character have 0 sanity, 99% hunger drain, and make everything 1 shot you. Then people can truly have the "uncompromising" experience they've been yearning for in these forums.

Has anyone even said uncompromising in this thread? 

[Spirit Glow]

7 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Has anyone even said uncompromising in this thread? 

Me and you so far XD

[Captain_Rage]

23 hours ago, Cheggf said:

I agree with all the people saying to just not use it if you don't like it. I think we should go a bit further, though, and add a new item to the game that's an indestructible 95% dr, 100% wetness resist, 480 insulation against both weathers, 6.7san/m, -75% hunger drain helmet as a starting item to all characters. If you don't want to use it you can simply drop it on the floor when you spawn, so this would surely only improve the game with no potential drawbacks. 

Only if it also overlaps with existing character perks that are supposed make the characters unique so that we can whine about how less diversified the characters have become and request additional character reworks and super duper perks that would totally make DST a more exciting experience.

[Captain_Rage]

16 hours ago, Starlogy said:

Man, I just like being able to get multiple Eyebrellas for my homies before Spring. Being able to fight Deerclops multiple times is an added bonus. It's upsetting to hear the Hostile Flare has been controversial so far.

Oh, what about this: instead of spawning 0.6 Deerclops(es) per Hostile Flare, why not make the Hostile Flare work once per season (e.g. one attempt) and summon a mega-mecha-Deerclops?

The "problem" with having the current Hostile Flare mechanic to spawn exactly 0.6 of a Deerclops upon each use is that:

1) Lorewise it does not make much or any sense to have a vicious giant seasonal monster roaming around, only get another one to appear instantly exactly when a flare goes off. Do they stand in a queue one screen away from the player(s), waiting for a cue to take one more step into the screen? Video game logics is one thing but this sort of logic messes with the lovely immersion and atmosphere that Don't Starve set up long ago.

2) The fight is already rather easy since the area of effect attack of Deerclops got changed. Farming it for an arguably potent albeit non-essential reward (the reward is very nice, and was limited before, because it allows for such an early game convenience and nullifies seasonal effects for spring) making farming it not more challenging in any intellectual way while making the spring season pretty much of a breeze for everyone on the server bascially right away. This feels a bit questionable, since spamming the same "easy" boss fight is not proportional to the convenience defeating it multiple times can provide.

3) The challening part with Deerclops was that it could strike at inconvient and surprising moments and keeping track of when it might happen was part of the survival aspect. This has arguably been eliminated.

What about... having the Hostile Flare, or some sinister item, spawn a vamped up version of Deerclops that will drop loot proportional to its difficulty?

An even bigger beast with multiple legs / eyes / heads / limbs and with tougher stats that will drop multiple eyes? Or transform into a bigger monster as the fight progresses, much like like the Shadow Pieces (depending on the strength of the Hostile Flare).

Now there would still be a great reward at play but the stakes would be higher. If somebody insists / prefers to obtain many Deerclops Eyes in the first winter they are free to do so, but at a greater challenge as opposed to repeating exactly the same fight many times.

 

We all know this won't happen but perhaps it could serve as an idea for future implementations of boss / loot adjustments.

Misery Toadstool and the Crab King has this sort of mechanics already although their rewards don't scale proportionally to the added challenge.

[Lord Cafe]

10 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

Oh, what about this: instead of spawning 0.6 Deerclops(es) per Hostile Flare, why not make the Hostile Flare work once per season (e.g. one attempt) and summon a mega-mecha-Deerclops?

The "problem" with having the current Hostile Flare mechanic to spawn exactly 0.6 of a Deerclops upon each use is that:

1) Lorewise it does not make much or any sense to have a vicious giant seasonal monster roaming around, only get another one to appear instantly exactly when a flare goes off. Do they stand in a queue one screen away from the player(s), waiting for a cue to take one more step into the screen? Video game logics is one thing but this sort of logic messes with the lovely immersion and atmosphere that Don't Starve set up long ago.

2) The fight is already rather easy since the area of effect attack of Deerclops got changed. Farming it for an arguably potent albeit non-essential reward (the reward is very nice, and was limited before, because it allows for such an early game convenience and nullifies seasonal effects for spring) making farming it not more challenging in any intellectual way while making the spring season pretty much of a breeze for everyone on the server bascially right away. This feels a bit questionable, since spamming the same "easy" boss fight is not proportional to the convenience defeating it multiple times can provide.

3) The challening part with Deerclops was that it could strike at inconvient and surprising moments and keeping track of when it might happen was part of the survival aspect. This has arguably been eliminated.

What about... having the Hostile Flare, or some sinister item, spawn a vamped up version of Deerclops that will drop loot proportional to its difficulty?

An even bigger beast with multiple legs / eyes / heads / limbs and with tougher stats that will drop multiple eyes? Or transform into a bigger monster as the fight progresses, much like like the Shadow Pieces (depending on the strength of the Hostile Flare).

Now there would still be a great reward at play but the stakes would be higher. If somebody insists / prefers to obtain many Deerclops Eyes in the first winter they are free to do so, but at a greater challenge as opposed to repeating exactly the same fight many times.

 

We all know this won't happen but perhaps it could serve as an idea for future implementations of boss / loot adjustments.

Misery Toadstool and the Crab King has this sort of mechanics already although their rewards don't scale proportionally to the added challenge.

A lot of things in this game doesn't respect the lore, just look at the shorts a lot of things that happen there are not possible in the game or are totally diferent, so they don't make the balance of the game based on lore.

Deerclops were always easy but begginers strungle even with the nerfed Deer so if they player it's a beginner he will probrably avoid deer which means that, this flare it's only usefull for experienced players.

Deerclops attack it's so easy to predict he always spawn after x days and u have character quotes like one minute before he come and sound clues, there's nothing about "Surprise attack" everyone knows when deer it's coming to get u, unless u never heard about him which means u don'teven know about the flare and will not use it(since there's no benefit using before winter)

The ideia behind defeating this boss is to make the next season easier,  what it's your point about saying "Will make a breese for everyone" so only one guy deserves to get a good time on spring while the rest of the serve suffer having to use umbrela/hat or cloth rain? What is the point on this experience? If you're playing online, you're not gonna beat deer alone, there's no way that u will be the ONLY guy punching him to deah, which means u will have to roll the dices to choose who get's the eye and if u don't do it, probrably gonna get kicked, so flares avoid this problem.

My ideia is to make flare a lil bit harder, 100% chance of spawn  deerclops ONLY after the first encounter and spawn a enraged deerclops maybe which more HP and some diferent attack setup, this will benefit experienced players while the new ones we still have the "surprise"  encounter with the old one and making everyone life's good.