The hostile flares are kinda ill designed

[Mx-Pain]

Best addittion to multiplayer ever made.

If you don't like it, just don't use it or don't play multiplayer.

[Capybara007]

32 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

which is not artificial progress. Rushing and spamming farms in one place makes for a rather boring experience. 

that is assuming nobody likes rushing and farming which isnt true

[Captain_Rage]

Well, yes, farming and rushing is certainly fun, but it is not mandatory for an fun experience. Not in the way some people portray it to be. To a degree it is fun for sure. Maybe like that.

[Capybara007]

Just now, Captain_Rage said:

Well, yes, farming and rushing is certainly fun, but it is not mandatory for an fun experience. Not in the way some people portray it to be. To a degree it is fun for sure. Maybe like that.

well foraging with a beefalo isnt mandatory for a fun experience either

[Captain_Rage]

Nope, but sure is!

[Wonz]

23 hours ago, Cheggf said:

What's anti-fun is every single player ignoring the next two seasons because you have a dozen of what is supposed to be a rare item

If they don't want that rare item then they just should not use it. Let others have fun their way.

[Lord Cafe]

I don't see why this is a problem, when i'm playing with a lot of players we kill deerclops and just dice rolls to se who gets the hat, literraly luck and if the guy who get's the eyes it's a troll people may kick him or just let him have it while the rest of the team just suffer from rain.

This is a multiplayer game, imagine you're playing with 7 people, are u gonna wait for 7 winters to everyone have eyebrelas? or killing the minotaur each 20 days(after resiting ruins which makes u have to kill fuel weaver too) to get the rest of eyes? who would even thought doing that? would way better to just ask wicker to stop rain or use umbrella and a hat to totally avoid rain, making eyebrela only usefull for one player and ignored by the rest of other players.

Most players barely gets go through 100 days, 7 winters it's way more than that and if people can barely go until 100days, i don't think they will have the energy to beat 6 times fuel weaver and minotaur to get the eyes.

Flares are good for the game but they could be more expensive, i think it's preety cheap but if they get hard to make, at least should guarante deerclops spawn(since it's not 100%)

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, archidus said:

Now that's a hyperbolic example lol I'm sure if said item existed, it would require a lot of effort from the player.

Are you seriously comparing "spawning more bosses because I can craft this new item" to "I can kill everything with a single strike"?

Sure it's hyperbolic but if you asked the player base a year or two ago if half the things that happened in the recent updates were ok they'd throw that right back at you.

 

2 hours ago, archidus said:

But there is a cooldown. Flares are not free. You still need glommer goop to make them, and unless you're creating full moons every night with Wickerbottom's new book, that will take a while. And even if you do, it will still take a while because that's only 2 goops a day. 

Maybe the problem is how easy it is to get that goop? Or maybe how cheap the flare is? If that's the problem then let's just change the recipe, but don't remove the flare.

No my problem is the lack of a cooldown on a boss that previously had one.

[cybers2001]

While I do see some counterpoints to the rarity of eyeballs on 7+ player servers, I’d also bring up that multiplayer offers more diverse strategies to handle seasonal challenges now more than ever before.  
  
- Wickerbottom can stop rain and dry players and control temperatures near her.  
- Warly can cook foods that dry players and control temperatures.  
- WX can negate overheating and cool thermal stones for other players.  
- Wormwood and Wurt are unaffected by wetness.

There are so many interesting nuances and tools at players’ disposals, especially in team dynamics, it’s unfortunate they only care about the top tier one.

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

- Wickerbottom can stop rain and dry players and control temperatures near her.  

You mean Wickerbottom can erase seasons for servers of players which could end up on players relying on it.

 

5 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

- Warly can cook foods that dry players and control temperatures

Which requires farming and using very potent ingredients while only lasting for 5 minutes at a time making it a lot more acceptable in my opinion.

 

6 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

- WX can negate overheating and cool thermal stones for other players

While he can negate overheating it's generally the other effects of summer that are a problem for people being a local station for stones is a nice synergy though but on top of that he uses half his slots to pull this off.

 

7 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

- Wormwood and Wurt are unaffected by wetness

They still freeze, suffer all the wetness penalties their supplies face such as faster spoilage and weaker fueling so they end up still needing rain gear or using a alternative.

Wickerbottom's stands out because just how free it is.

[Well-met]

I think he's on your side mate, don't need to argue

[cybers2001]

23 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

You mean Wickerbottom can erase seasons for servers of players which could end up on players relying on it. …

Power creep from reworks are out of scope for the topic. The point is they exist, and are strong alternatives to the eyebrella.

Quote

While he can negate overheating it's generally the other effects of summer that are a problem for people being a local station for stones is a nice synergy though but on top of that he uses half his slots to pull this off.

Every module worth anything uses up half his slots, my guy. I personally do use the hot/cold modules during harsh seasons.

[Evelo]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

They still freeze, suffer all the wetness penalties their supplies face such as faster spoilage and weaker fueling so they end up still needing rain gear or using a alternative.

Faster Spoilage and Weaker fuel can be negated by puting food and fuel in the backpack.
Freezing can be negated with a thermal stone.
Wormwood has the downside of slippery tools but Wurt doesnt.

[cybers2001]

22 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Faster Spoilage and Weaker fuel can be negated by puting food and fuel in the backpack.
Freezing can be negated with a thermal stone.
Wormwood has the downside of slippery tools but Wurt doesnt.

Plus Wurt can just hold a fish and be ‘kay.

[maradyne]

Good item for public servers, less room for hoarding drops that most worlds will only see once before everyone goes to bed and the reset comes.

Eyebrella could be adjusted in my opinion, but that's moreso a problem with the item than Clops or the flare.

[HowlVoid]

5 hours ago, Well-met said:

I think he's on your side mate, don't need to argue

When you're so set on dying on a hill you turn on the people supporting you.

Lmao...

5 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

While I do see some counterpoints to the rarity of eyeballs on 7+ player servers, I’d also bring up that multiplayer offers more diverse strategies to handle seasonal challenges now more than ever before.  
  
- Wickerbottom can stop rain and dry players and control temperatures near her.  
- Warly can cook foods that dry players and control temperatures.  
- WX can negate overheating and cool thermal stones for other players.  
- Wormwood and Wurt are unaffected by wetness.

There are so many interesting nuances and tools at players’ disposals, especially in team dynamics, it’s unfortunate they only care about the top tier one.

Imo these examples are a great reason why the eyebrella isn't a big deal.

Wicker's is obvious

Warly's is great for battle

Wx-78 another example of trading the hat for armor/sanity

Wormwood/Wurt might actually use Wx-78's heating due to freezing. As Wormwood I still like to use the hat the first 5ish days because I may freeze when wet and may want to use the hat indefinitely because of slipping weapons (unless beefalo). Although Wormwood does get bonuses in summer too.

I think the fact so many characters can go without the hat proves that deerclops being added shouldn't be a problem BECAUSE people won't rely on other characters being present, yet they all still have their niche.

"We don't have a Wicker/Warly to protect us from rain!"

"That's ok let's spawn more deerclops."

The hat is NOT top tier and does in fact have disadvantages. Wicker is the single most powerful rain stopping ability out of all the ones you mentioned. 

[Mysterious box]

4 hours ago, Evelo said:

Faster Spoilage and Weaker fuel can be negated by puting food and fuel in the backpack.
Freezing can be negated with a thermal stone.
Wormwood has the downside of slippery tools but Wurt doesnt.

If your using a thermal stone doesn't that like completely ruin the point of being immune to wetness? I'd argue it takes less time to stay dry than to heat a thermal stone. I'm aware of the backpack part but that in turn means your limited to a backpack to negate it.

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

When you're so set on dying on a hill you turn on the people supporting you.

Lmao...

Imo these examples are a great reason why the eyebrella isn't a big deal.

Wicker's is obvious

Warly's is great for battle

Wx-78 another example of trading the hat for armor/sanity

Wormwood/Wurt might actually use Wx-78's heating due to freezing. As Wormwood I still like to use the hat the first 5ish days because I may freeze when wet and may want to use the hat indefinitely because of slipping weapons (unless beefalo). Although Wormwood does get bonuses in summer too.

I think the fact so many characters can go without the hat proves that deerclops being added shouldn't be a problem BECAUSE people won't rely on other characters being present, yet they all still have their niche.

"We don't have a Wicker/Warly to protect us from rain!"

"That's ok let's spawn more deerclops."

The hat is NOT top tier and does in fact have disadvantages. Wicker is the single most powerful rain stopping ability out of all the ones you mentioned. 

So because we have perks that protect from the rain giving out the strongest non character specific rain gear wholesale is fine? between Webber's nurses, Wortox's souls, and Walter's tent we have a few perks that can heal guess we should remove the respawn timer on bee queen because healing is easy with those perks no? I mean multiple people want bundling wraps, crowns, and jellybeans no?

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

When you're so set on dying on a hill you turn on the people supporting you.

Lmao...

There's no sides to a good debate you simply present your side regardless of who it is this isn't some faction.

6 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

Power creep from reworks are out of scope for the topic. The point is they exist, and are strong alternatives to the eyebrella.

Every module worth anything uses up half his slots, my guy. I personally do use the hot/cold modules during harsh seasons.

Correct meaning in exchange for temperature your passing up other very good modules on a character who only has passives and eating gears going for him not to say they're bad but I see that as quite the sacrifice even more so in summer where the main threat isn't addressed by it being wildfires. 

[HowlVoid]

33 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

If your using a thermal stone doesn't that like completely ruin the point of being immune to wetness? I'd argue it takes less time to stay dry than to heat a thermal stone. I'm aware of the backpack part but that in turn means your limited to a backpack to negate it.

The point of using a thermal stone is so you don't freeze. Wormwood is immune to wetness but not it's side effects. 

A thermal stone takes 0 time if it's already warmed up by a furnace, where you should place them. 

And how are you going to dry yourself of if you don't have any rain protection handy and it's still raining? You quickly grab the thermal stone.

33 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

So because we have perks that protect from the rain giving out the strongest non character specific rain gear wholesale is fine? between Webber's nurses, Wortox's souls, and Walter's tent we have a few perks that can heal guess we should remove the respawn timer on bee queen because healing is easy with those perks no? I mean multiple people want bundling wraps, crowns, and jellybeans no?

This is a pretty lousy argument, no offense. Character perks can be substitutes for items, yes. That's a given on any characters, it's basically the whole point of a character, advantages and how useful certain items are to that character.

Healing and weather protection are Worlds apart in balance, you're comparing oranges to apples. Furthermore, as you stated bee queen as other progression items so she is not comparable to deerclops.

You can however compare deerclops to dragonfly (multiplayer friendly weather protection), bearger (shedding), and moose/goose (multiple spawns).

33 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

There's no sides to a good debate you simply present your side regardless of who it is this isn't some faction.

Unless you lose sight about what the debate is about. You countered a point that was in your favor, which leads me to believe you've descended to a point where you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

33 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Correct meaning in exchange for temperature your passing up other very good modules on a character who only has passives and eating gears going for him not to say they're bad but I see that as quite the sacrifice even more so in summer where the main threat isn't addressed by it being wildfires. 

Are you really suggesting a module that has a one time cost and no upkeep loses to an item that requires upkeep? 

And there are many, many ways to control wildfires. To prevent them completely even. I can have a above average tree growing by winter so it's ready come summer and it doesn't get in the way of other things because it's so fast and easy to do.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

The point of using a thermal stone is so you don't freeze. Wormwood is immune to wetness but not it's side effects. 

A thermal stone takes 0 time if it's already warmed up by a furnace, where you should place them. 

And how are you going to dry yourself of if you don't have any rain protection handy and it's still raining? You quickly grab the thermal stone.

The side effects of wetness is still wetness therefore he is not immune to wetness. Also I'm not sure you properly read what I wrote in this quote because it was made comparing using rain protection vs using a thermal.

 

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

This is a pretty lousy argument, no offense. Character perks can be substitutes for items, yes. That's a given on any characters, it's basically the whole point of a character, advantages and how useful certain items are to that character.

Healing and weather protection are Worlds apart in balance, you're comparing oranges to apples. Furthermore, as you stated bee queen as other progression items so she is not comparable to deerclops.

You can however compare deerclops to dragonfly (multiplayer friendly weather protection), bearger (shedding), and moose/goose (multiple spawns).

It really isn't though because the argument you made was bad in the first place which is what I was pointing out the power of the perk or the method of the item isn't the concern here and it doesn't need to do the same thing to be comparable your argument is eh who cares if the item is powerful if other characters can do something similar as a perk and that still applies and it's still bad logic to balance gear progression around what character specific abilities can achieve.

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

Unless you lose sight about what the debate is about. You countered a point that was in your favor, which leads me to believe you've descended to a point where you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Even if a point is in your favor it doesn't mean you have to completely agree with it that's not losing sight it's being genuine.

Edit: I don't argue for a the sake of arguing but I do enjoy a good debate I definitely wouldn't continue to engage in these discussions if I didn't enjoy them to a extent.  

 

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

Are you really suggesting a module that has a one time cost and no upkeep loses to an item that requires upkeep?

You do realize modules lose durability when you unequip them right?

 

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

And there are many, many ways to control wildfires. To prevent them completely even. I can have a above average tree growing by winter so it's ready come summer and it doesn't get in the way of other things because it's so fast and easy to do.

There are ways to deal with everything heck Wx doesn't even need to equip the module to survive so I'm confused what the point your trying to make here is.

[HowlVoid]

27 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It really isn't though because the argument you made was bad in the first place which is what I was pointing out the power of the perk or the method of the item isn't the concern here and it doesn't need to do the same thing to be comparable your argument is eh who cares if the item is powerful if other characters can do something similar as a perk and that still applies and it's still bad logic to balance gear progression around what character specific abilities can achieve.

You misunderstood.

What implied in my reply, which was a reply to someone's reply, is that the eyebrella is not absolute. The character perks he listed can still be used to great effect, and their effectiveness is not impeded by the item. You misunderstood because you want to jump right into a counter point without understanding what I'm talking about. My point was about them not completely overlapping.

Also you told me in another conversation that I'm saying the item is weak and that that is my "argument". I'm going to need you to stay consistent because you're all over the place.

27 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Even if a point is in your favor it doesn't mean you have to completely agree with it that's not losing sight it's being genuine.

Edit: I don't argue for a the sake of arguing but I do enjoy a good debate I definitely wouldn't continue to engage in these discussions if I didn't enjoy them to a extent.  

Well you genuinely made it looked like its hard to agree with you.

27 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

 

You do realize modules lose durability when you unequip them right?

It's still a one time cost per season if you do not remove it for the duration of that season. Items with insulation require upkeep in terms of increasing your constantly declining temperature. That is upkeep that is maintained throughout that whole season irregardless of the items repair cost. In regards to repair cost though the eyebrella also requires constant maintenance.

27 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

There are ways to deal with everything heck Wx doesn't even need to equip the module to survive so I'm confused what the point your trying to make here is.

Exactly, there are many ways to deal with everything, no one item is absolute. That is the point.

The eyebrella is not an all encompassing evil that you claim it to be. It does not impede creativity, adaptation, or characters that wish to deal with rain in other ways. Those who cannot beat deerclops still have other items available to them, albeit weaker, but that's because they are lower in the progression cycle. 

All that is meant to safeguard this item from players is the difficulty of deerclops, that's all. All person's who could defeat deerclops had every right to this item, why? Because they could defeat deerclops. Which ever way that player goes about defeating deerclops is irrelevant as this is a sandbox game and it's ok to think outside the box to defeat difficult enemies. As far as I can't tell the devs haven't patched out deerclops summoning treeguards and the like.

Deerclops is now in-line with other bosses which also guard weather protection items. The difficulty in obtaining these items is relative to the difficulty attached to each boss and the corresponding item it drops. Nowhere has it been implied that these items where meant to be rare or scarce. You defeat the a boss, you get an item. What was unfair was if you took part in that battle and someone else got it just because of the roll of a dice or another group took it which you are not a part of. Why is it so hard for other to be rewarded for their efforts? Why is it so hard for someone to not only feel accomplished but also have something to show for it? There are people joining the game all the time and dst is their first game. What of them, who do not know this item is usually "rare" and are confused that they are not rewarded for their efforts? 

You can't share one eyeball, it's not possible. Yet, everyone participated. 

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Exactly, there are many ways to deal with everything, no one item is absolute. That is the point.

The eyebrella is not an all encompassing evil that you claim it to be. It does not impede creativity, adaptation, or characters that wish to deal with rain in other ways. Those who cannot beat deerclops still have other items available to them, albeit weaker, but that's because they are lower in the progression cycle. 

All that is meant to safeguard this item from players is the difficulty of deerclops, that's all. All person's who could defeat deerclops had every right to this item, why? Because they could defeat deerclops. Which ever way that player goes about defeating deerclops is irrelevant as this is a sandbox game and it's ok to think outside the box to defeat difficult enemies. As far as I can't tell the devs haven't patched out deerclops summoning treeguards and the like.

Deerclops is now in-line with other bosses which also guard weather protection items. The difficulty in obtaining these items is relative to the difficulty attached to each boss and the corresponding item it drops. Nowhere has it been implied that these items where meant to be rare or scarce. You defeat the a boss, you get an item. What was unfair was if you took part in that battle and someone else got it just because of the roll of a dice or another group took it which you are not a part of. Why is it so hard for other to be rewarded for their efforts? Why is it so hard for someone to not only feel accomplished but also have something to show for it? There are people joining the game all the time and dst is their first game. What of them, who do not know this item is usually "rare" and are confused that they are not rewarded for their efforts? 

You can't share one eyeball, it's not possible. Yet, everyone participated. 

See while the eye itself is a point we've focused on for far longer than we needed to my problem with this still remains unanswered what makes deerclops specifically so special how does none of this apply to the many other bossses?

 

5 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Well you genuinely made it looked like its hard to agree with you.

I'm fine with this I don't expect everyone to agree with me if you say something I agree with I'll agree if someone who agrees with me says something I agree with I'll agree I'm not going to pick a side purely for the sake of having someone back my argument agreeing to accept points I don't agree with purely to back a argument feels like admitting the point made isn't good.

 

12 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

It's still a one time cost per season if you do not remove it for the duration of that season. Items with insulation require upkeep in terms of increasing your constantly declining temperature. That is upkeep that is maintained throughout that whole season irregardless of the items repair cost. In regards to repair cost though the eyebrella also requires constant maintenance.

Constant maintenance is kind of stretching it a day lasts 8 minutes so even if your constantly wearing it you only need to repair it a little under once every 72 minutes still much more frequent than the module but not super often.

 

26 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

You misunderstood.

What implied in my reply, which was a reply to someone's reply, is that the eyebrella is not absolute. The character perks he listed can still be used to great effect, and their effectiveness is not impeded by the item. You misunderstood because you want to jump right into a counter point without understanding what I'm talking about. My point was about them not completely overlapping.

Also you told me in another conversation that I'm saying the item is weak and that that is my "argument". I'm going to need you to stay consistent because you're all over the place.

Then honestly I'm confused where your stance on this lies myself the item is weak enough that no one would miss it but powerful enough that it's unfair if everyone who wants one doesn't get one this feels like a have your cake and eat it too scenario and I'll admit I'm getting confused.

[cybers2001]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

It really isn't though because the argument you made was bad in the first place which is what I was pointing out the power of the perk or the method of the item isn't the concern here and it doesn't need to do the same thing to be comparable your argument is eh who cares if the item is powerful if other characters can do something similar as a perk and that still applies and it's still bad logic to balance gear progression around what character specific abilities can achieve.

My point about the perks is that proper team synergy can more than overcome the limitation of the number of eyebrellas in circulation. Sure I could play solo and get my own eyebrella all to myself with no issue, or I could play with a group and get rain manipulation, temperature manipulation, crop manipulation, and all sorts of other fancy buffs.

Quote

See while the eye itself is a point we've focused on for far longer than we needed to my problem with this still remains unanswered what makes deerclops specifically so special how does none of this apply to the many other bossses?

Eyebrella has always been the best seasonal boss item. It's no different in DS as it is in DST. But also currently Deerclops is the only one of the giants that can be spawned at will by the new flare. Deerclops is also different in that it's the only boss that approaches the players and can catch them off-guard. (Well, also Bearger, but most players will keep him alive so it doesn't keep happening)

[Gashzer]

Maybe the eyebrella should be nerfed to be primarily a spring clothing item rather than a summer one. Keep the 100% rain and lightning protection, reduce the summer insulation to tier 2 instead of the current tier 3. This would make items like the ice cube hat and floral shirt more appealing to use.

I do hate the fact the eyebrella is the best hat to wear for 2 seasons in a row. I use the ice cube hat on pubs if i didnt get the eyebrella while playing wurt or walter. Since both characters are immune to the sanity drain of wet items. Its actually a pretty solid hat for summer, you can use normal firepits with it without overheating.

This would balance the increased amount of eyebrellas now available for public servers. I do really like the hostile flare tho so don't nerf it. It needs more work done to it actually, to summon different mobs in different seasons would be nice.

[Gi-Go]

I don't understand what this thread is about. What is hostile flare and who is forcing you to use it? 

 

[Mysterious box]

8 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

My point about the perks is that proper team synergy can more than overcome the limitation of the number of eyebrellas in circulation. Sure I could play solo and get my own eyebrella all to myself with no issue, or I could play with a group and get rain manipulation, temperature manipulation, crop manipulation, and all sorts of other fancy buffs.

Eyebrella has always been the best seasonal boss item. It's no different in DS as it is in DST. But also currently Deerclops is the only one of the giants that can be spawned at will by the new flare. Deerclops is also different in that it's the only boss that approaches the players and can catch them off-guard. (Well, also Bearger, but most players will keep him alive so it doesn't keep happening)

Like I keep saying I understand we've discussed the viability of the eye on loop but my question feels like it keeps being ignored I'm not asking how good the eye is I'm asking why specifically of all the bosses it gets special treatment if it's unfair for one person to get boss loot on a team effort.