Practical rain rituals should require non season-specific ingredient instead of down feathers

[Pig Princess]

I think better choice instead of down feathers - that lock book until spring - would be any of the other following resources that are not season-specific, yet relatively expensive/rare, require planning to obtain them early enough to benefit greatly and make at least slight sence:

- shell bells - as a reference to both SW howling conch (which starts hurricane or rain depending on the DLC) and real life belief that shells emit sound of sea/water (which is actually amplified echo of sounds that are normally too quite to pay attention to);

- salt crystals - as a reference to way of causing precipitation in real life (even though DST salt crystals resemble that specific salt people use as as spice and salt used for causing artificial rain is a different one, considering DST salt floats instead of drowning and dissolving in water I think it's close enough reference);

- blue gems (multiple) - lowering air temperature may result in precipitation (rain, fog, snow) provided initial amount of water wapor contained in hot air is higher than amount of water wapor air can hold after cooling.

Compared to the recipe with down feathers recipe with any of the mentioned above resources would achieve the following things:

- different early game and non-default settings strategies would appear, i.e. it enriches gameplay experience. If book was available much earlier than first spring Wickerbottom could:

     - use different approach to rush Pearl's quests: consistent rain to give umbrella (especially in autumn and summer) and consistent snow to give insulation clothing would make a large difference, possibly influensing order and seasons of completing particular quests, to the point of starting in different season);

     - rushing bosses with morning star in 1st autumn suddenly becomes a possibility;

     - Wickerbottom could use different approach to start and expand RWYS garden by cooperating with Wormwood compared to both horticulture books and normal experience (horticulture grows small group of seeds nearly instantly, while raining affects all plants in the world and can result in extra seeds to expand garden faster, it has great potential for synergy with Wormwood). Moreover, regular seeds accumulation increases during rain since birds land much more often, which is also a nice bonus for rushing steady income of specific type of crops.

     - should Wickerbottom wish to fish rainy/snow day lure suddenly becomes much more desirable item - basically stupefying lure sidegrade);

     - Wickerbottom could save people by stopping rain that started before spring, i.e. when someone picks ice/fire staff from set piece and in the caves during the beginning of 1st winter;

     - [niche, but still] rain could still be influenced in the worlds that don't have moose/goose or even spring in year cycle (can we have Adventure Mode in DST officially some day rather than it remaining a mod?)

- it would make any of the mentioned resources less niche and more desirable to get (early and in general) since book has great potential; down feathers on the other hand already have enough crafts and are in a fine place in terms of importance. Not only that, but other related items such as rainy day lure and morning star would receive indirect buff in order to use wich player should be creative strategically;

- it would enhance synergy with other characters such as Warly and Wormwood even more since book would be available earlier/in larger set of situations.

Before recipe change it was umbrella and something else that didn't make much sence to me, but I think shell bell/salt crystals/blue gems would make this game aspect much more enjoyable and flexible to use than with both old and current recipe, at least for me.

[Hornete]

5 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

[snip]

How would you feel about Malbatross Feathers replacing the Down Feathers, out of curiosity?

[Pig Princess]

11 minutes ago, Hornete said:

How would you feel about Malbatross Feathers replacing the Down Feathers, out of curiosity?

I think it would be both better and worse: on one hand it's not season-dependant and Malbatross feathers can be obtained from both Malbatross and treasures (which means much wider variety of world settings would allow to use the book due to treasures part), but on the other hand Malbatross is example of badly designed (adding more boredom than fun) random. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't world pick set of shoals each X days that can spawn Malbatross on principle (including fishing deep bass and just being near), and no matter what player does if they are not near correct shoal Malbatross won't spawn? Recently I played in a world where I fished 2 entire shoals in quick session, then returned to one of them and fished it all another time, but Malbatross didn't spawn (it was light out and I didn't feel like exploring ocean more for more shoals and staying any longer in the darkness and with Wavy). Was I just extremely unlucky?

Edit: also come to think about it, if spawn mechanic of Malbatross works as I think it works, it's not much different from Moose/Goose nests containing or not containing nest in this particular spring. It's just that mainland biomes are easier and on average more interesting to me to explore and revisit rather than ocean biomes (again, on average, Waterlogged I like for various reasons).

[Hornete]

4 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't world pick set of shoals each X days that can spawn Malbatross on principle (including fishing deep bass and just being near), and no matter what player does if they are not near correct shoal Malbatross won't spawn? Recently I played in a world where I fished 2 entire shoals in quick session, then returned to one of them and fished it all another time, but Malbatross didn't spawn (it was light out and I didn't feel like exploring ocean more for more shoals and staying any longer in the darkness and with Wavy). Was I just extremely unlucky?

Malbatross's spawning has two triggers. 25% of the shoals in the world are chosen to be valid Malbatross spawners, and will spawn Malbatross if a player gets near, if she hasn't already spawned in another shoal. 

OR

There is also a 10% chance for Malbatross to spawn when hooking onto a deep bass fish from a shoal(Specifically the hook action, it is possible to catch a fish without hooking it, I like to do this trick when I just wanna fish at a shoal without malbatross bothering me).

Malbatross's spawning mechanics hasn't treated me too badly in the past, I've generally been able to hook onto a few deep bass and she'll spawn. You were indeed a bit unlucky me-thinks.

[maxwell_winters]

11 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

use different approach to rush Pearl's quests:

I don't understand how would the book help to rush Pearl's quest if you still need cactus flowers to finish it. So you'll still need to visit the island in summer. You might as well read the book in summer.

11 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

rushing bosses with morning star in 1st autumn suddenly becomes a possibility

There is a possibility, but the probability of getting all the necessary resources (morning stars, good rain gear, armor, healing) while setting up your base for winter is kinda low. Unless you play with a super organized group of friends and have struck a jackpot with world gen. 

18 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

should Wickerbottom wish to fish rainy/snow day lure suddenly becomes much more desirable item

Annoying the entire server with rain who may not even have a good rain gear at his point just because Wicker wants to fish more efficiently.

19 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

Wickerbottom could save people by stopping rain that started before spring,

The first autumn rains are barely an issue to save people from them. 

I'm not defending the current recipe but saying that having the book in the first autumns unlocks many "early game strategies that enrich the gameplay" is a bit of exaggeration, imo. The book really shines in spring and summer, anyway. 

[LitulLola]

50 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

I don't understand how would the book help to rush Pearl's quest if you still need cactus flowers to finish it. So you'll still need to visit the island in summer. You might as well read the book in summer.

Ppl were starting their world's in summer to rush pearl before the craft change

[Pig Princess]

1 hour ago, maxwell_winters said:

you still need cactus flowers to finish it

It's true, but for me there is a difference between visiting Pearl's island (and planning so sail in general) in first winter and summer and in first spring and summer, as well as between planning to stay at least 5 days in spring on the boat doing nothing particularly useful near island and just sail, do everything quickly and have rain on demand. That could the difference for me for being and not being able to complete all quests in 1st summer because of umbrella quest.

1 hour ago, maxwell_winters said:

probability of getting all the necessary resources (morning stars, good rain gear, armor, healing) while setting up your base for winter is kinda low

You mentioned the problem yourself: you are planning too many things to consistent completion of all of them. I, for example, would skip base and tame a beefalo instead while I explore map for marble and goats (marble armor also means I would need around 400hp of healing even for BQ, which is not hard to get). As for rain gear, rain hat is discount eyebrella for rain that is also very easy to get, rain coat depends on both map layout and luck, but it's not impossible to have rain coat in the first autumn in addition to rushing ruins, bosses or other activities on the mainland. Still, morning star would be slower than ham bat (on normal settings), but that's an option I would like to try at some point, especially if I could convince one of my friends to play as Wickerbottom while I'm playing as Warly or vice versa.

1 hour ago, maxwell_winters said:

Annoying the entire server with rain

Or quickly fish all fish I need and immediately stop rain. Or fish during snow about which no one cares. Or communicate and drag them on my side convince them that rain will benefit them more than harm and expand my plans to group plans.

Anyway what is so hard about getting rain gear? Also I never would start rain without any announcement without enough time to prepare or if other player has other big plans (in which case it could be probably solved by postponing rain a little bit or me joining their plans to speed things up).

1 hour ago, maxwell_winters said:

The first autumn rains are barely an issue

Which is why I wrote that it's niche, yet happened to me on pubs, and believe me it's very annoying when someone picks staff without any announcement, especially if that person didn't even need staff in the first place, only for them to leave after half a day because they died from freezing, and all other players capable of managing situation being troubled and their plans completely and irrevokably messed.

Anyway, I see that you are just opposed to an idea. Still, I don't think character's abilities should be balanced about annoying or not annoying other people, I would prefer balancing about potential. As for other people, firstly, you can communicate, secondly, you can get rain gear as any character, and finally, I think Woodie should receive a way to protect himself from full moon curse, in the form of Woodie-specific item similar to Wilba's silver necklace, other Wickerbottom book for combating curses, or general item for everyone to combat curses.

Edit: about bosses - I never mentioned Bee Queen specifically even though 400 hp with marble armor is endeed value for solo Bee Queen with default damage modifier, 95% protection, enough speed to dodge all grumble bees and no cheese. In case BQ specifically that would be smarter (because of speed boosts available in the first autumn) to use either panflutes to save multiple kinds of resources or use good old on tentacles even though personally I'd rather fight BQ manually and without panflutes. Anyway, other bosses exist for morning star to shine, as well as other activities.

[maxwell_winters]

32 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

Still, I don't think character's abilities should be balanced about annoying or not annoying other people, I would prefer balancing about potential. 

I'm not opposed to the idea of changing the recipe but neither of your suggestion requires enough effort to justify the power of manipulating rain. Malbatross feathers would work. However, if you ask me, it's much easier to wait for spring and find Moose/Goose than to sail around the ocean and pray to RNG gods that she will spawn. 

32 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

I don't think character's abilities should be balanced about annoying or not annoying other people

I agree. The argument I should have used is that reading the rain book just to fish more efficiently in the first autumn and winter is too much and very niche.  

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, maxwell_winters said:

There is a possibility, but the probability of getting all the necessary resources (morning stars, good rain gear, armor, healing) while setting up your base for winter is kinda low. Unless you play with a super organized group of friends and have struck a jackpot with world gen. 

I play solo and I can kill Dragonfly as Wormwood setting up manipulator, rushing the ruins, and crafting darkswords+bat bat+night armor all before winter. You don't even need a base to survive winter, all you need is a torch, thermal stone, and 3-5 crock pots if you're not Wormwood at minimum. 

Armor can be obtained along side healing by cutting down birchnut trees and crafting log suits + making trail mix. If you're collecting butterfly wings on the way, turn them into muffins (1 butterfly wing+1 carrot+2twigs). Then just craft a hambat and wall of dragonfly. It's really good to kill her early as it greatly cuts down on logs.

[Pig Princess]

4 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

You don't even need a base to survive winter, all you need is a torch, thermal stone, and 3-5 crock pots if you're not Wormwood at minimum.

You don't need that much crock pots, my base until 2nd year consists of alchemy in the middle of nowhere which I visit 2-3 times per season, ice box, optionally fire pit and crock pot. The most important part of typical bases of mine is flingo-worth (without flingo) empty space for dropping loot and a few backpacks to put there more loot.

[HowlVoid]

2 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

You don't need that much crock pots, my base until 2nd year consists of alchemy in the middle of nowhere which I visit 2-3 times per season, ice box, optionally fire pit and crock pot. The most important part of typical bases of mine is flingo-worth (without flingo) empty space for dropping loot and a few backpacks to put there more loot.

Very true, though I do like 5 because I can quickly move between them and food tends to be ready by the time I get to the fifth, so 5 isn't minimum it's more of qol. A qol I can't live without haha.

As Wormwood I don't actually craft any at all lol. Not until spring to make jellybeans after I kill bee queen 

[Pig Princess]

That's offtopic, but

4 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

As Wormwood I don't actually craft any at all lol.

Spoiler

I remember playing with my Wendy friend as Wormwood on public server rushing CC. He had to go back to place called base for food and healing while laughed and ate red caps, monsted meat, used rot, glands and guano lying around everywhere and continued to farm resources to 3rd CC in future triple CC fight.

 

[Mike23Ua]

I think down feathers are actually fine as an ingredient.. it makes sense that a mob that can summon rain would also allow creation of a book that summons rain.

Also- you don’t have to actually Kill the Moose/Goose to get them.. you can just kill the baby mooslings for more feather then you can possibly know what to do with.

Now what I think might would be cool is if Wickerbottom had a unique way of getting said feather- after all a book titled “birds of the world” should be summoning well.. birds from all over the world?

So having a random baby moosling spawn when she uses the birds book would be hilarious, and also allow the gathering of down feather outside of spring season.

[Evelo]

3 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Very true, though I do like 5 because I can quickly move between them and food tends to be ready by the time I get to the fifth, so 5 isn't minimum it's more of qol. A qol I can't live without haha.

As Wormwood I don't actually craft any at all lol. Not until spring to make jellybeans after I kill bee queen 

Very off topic but i'd love to message you regarding boss killing as Wormwood. I love the character to death but holy crap I am bad at boss slaying.

[HowlVoid]

35 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Very off topic but i'd love to message you regarding boss killing as Wormwood. I love the character to death but holy crap I am bad at boss slaying.

Wormwood fights like everyone else, so if the issue is kiting I'm afraid the only thing you can do is practice... His combat prowess comes in the form of getting some combat items early like the bat bat and darkswords. So it really falls off in the late game.

Pair a bat bat with a marble suit or night armor so you don't lose too much DPS healing back any damage you take. Plant seeds to recover sanity quickly mid fight. He really doesn't get that many advantages, some stuff may seem "synergetic" but if he didn't use a bat bat to heal (which is one of the few limited ways he can heal), he wouldn't need the night armor or the sanity in the first place. He's basically making up for his own shortcomings which is cool, but...  It's not really some powerful thing. It's more like an alternative way to play which is still pretty awesome and the reason I play him.

I wish there was some awesome trick or short cut I could tell you about, like rain+morning star for wicker, or hitting walls to keep the moose meter from draining fast, or using Abigail while on a beefalo, but there's nothing like that.

Just kite and make your darksword. Prioritize high defense armor and try to get some blooming to help you kite (fishing and letting it spoil is a cheap early game fertilizer for blooming, you can also try in the swamp if merms we're killed).

I feel like his blooming should increase his attack speed or something, even if just a little...

Sorry pig princess didn't mean to get so off topic.

[Aquaticbutter7]

How about the Spittlefish as a material for the book? It would somewhat make sense and be obtainable whenever you feel like it but still actually somewhat challenging (or at least time consuming) to obtain. 

[HowlVoid]

43 minutes ago, Aquaticbutter7 said:

How about the Spittlefish as a material for the book? It would somewhat make sense and be obtainable whenever you feel like it but still actually somewhat challenging (or at least time consuming) to obtain. 

This almost makes too much sense. Though I do wonder how the fish book would affect it. I'm not too sure how that book works.

[Ornge]

The watering can and umbrella recipe is still the most logical imo. The recipe requires a watering can because you use it to pour water all over the map. The recipe also requires an umbrella because you use it to block rain out, like an umbrella, by turning it off.

Moose goose feathers make zero sense to me other than that it's a boss drop from spring, the rain season. If the recipe was to change again, requiring an umbrella again and malbatross watering can would solves all problems. It's no longer season locked, no longer cheap and still maintains the original theme of the recipe.

Although the update does come out tomorrow so I doubt anything will actually change about these books

[Mike23Ua]

8 minutes ago, Ornge said:

The watering can and umbrella recipe is still the most logical imo. The recipe requires a watering can because you use it to pour water all over the map. The recipe also requires an umbrella because you use it to block rain out, like an umbrella, by turning it off.

Moose goose feathers make zero sense to me other than that it's a boss drop from spring, the rain season. If the recipe was to change again, requiring an umbrella again and malbatross watering can would solves all problems. It's no longer season locked, no longer cheap and still maintains the original theme of the recipe.

Although the update does come out tomorrow so I doubt anything will actually change about these books

So hold on let me try to understand this logic, instead of locking the rain book behind Mooslings which are common and all over the place by the time spring rolls around, you instead want to lock it behind an optional Sea Content Boss that in all my entire time of playing DST I’ve only actually managed to find maybe twice??

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Ornge said:

The watering can and umbrella recipe is still the most logical imo. The recipe requires a watering can because you use it to pour water all over the map. The recipe also requires an umbrella because you use it to block rain out, like an umbrella, by turning it off.

Moose goose feathers make zero sense to me other than that it's a boss drop from spring, the rain season. If the recipe was to change again, requiring an umbrella again and malbatross watering can would solves all problems. It's no longer season locked, no longer cheap and still maintains the original theme of the recipe.

Although the update does come out tomorrow so I doubt anything will actually change about these books

the feathers actually make way more sense than the watering can and an umbrella, moslins call rain when angry...

sure, is season locked so no rain in 1st autumn (which would be useful only for killing beequeen with morning star) but makes sense

about not being cheap... you get a lot of feathers in one spring

[Faintly Macabre]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

So hold on let me try to understand this logic, instead of locking the rain book behind Mooslings which are common and all over the place by the time spring rolls around, you instead want to lock it behind an optional Sea Content Boss that in all my entire time of playing DST I’ve only actually managed to find maybe twice??

I don't really want the recipe changed to involve the Malbatross either, but this isn't nearly as unreasonable as you seem to think it is. At least, not for the reason you seem to think. Whether or not a boss is optional and sea-related, and whether or not you personally fight it regularly has no bearing on the logic of the idea.

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

moslins call rain when angry...

Technically they get struck by lightning, and that starts the rain. 

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

sure, is season locked so no rain in 1st autumn (which would be useful only for killing beequeen with morning star) but makes sense

It's useful for killing any boss like dfly, fighting groups of enemies, farming, and probably other things I'm not immediately thinking of. 

[Ornge]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the feathers actually make way more sense than the watering can and an umbrella, moslins call rain when angry...

explain to me what moslings and the down feathers have to do with stopping rain. To claim that down feathers in the recipe makes more sense than the original recipe is to say that the only reason the down feathers work is because of a single mob that drops them. ie It's not the feather that summons the rain, it's the mosling. that's a leap you don't have to make with the original recipe because simply put, watering can makes rain and umbrella stops rain

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

you instead want to lock it behind an optional Sea Content Boss

Either regular watering can or the malbatross one, I don't mind. The recipe works fine depending on whether or not you think the book should be expensive. My point being the original recipe is a lot more creative than people give it credit for

[ArubaroBeefalo]

38 minutes ago, Ornge said:

explain to me what moslings and the down feathers have to do with stopping rain. To claim that down feathers in the recipe makes more sense than the original recipe is to say that the only reason the down feathers work is because of a single mob that drops them. ie It's not the feather that summons the rain, it's the mosling. that's a leap you don't have to make with the original recipe because simply put, watering can makes rain and umbrella stops rain

explain me how a watering can and an umbrella makes more sense than the feathers of a magical being that call rain?

both recipes made sense because is a videogame based in a magical world were fridge can cold things without a source od power but saying:

3 hours ago, Ornge said:

Moose goose feathers make zero sense to me other than that it's a boss drop from spring

is just an exaggeration because it does

[maxwell_winters]

5 hours ago, Ornge said:

The watering can and umbrella recipe is still the most logical imo. The recipe requires a watering can because you use it to pour water all over the map.

I have to disagree on this one. I consider the old recipe very unispired from thematic perspective. Magic uses energy of things with certain properies. The OG Wickerbottom books follow that logic. It's either magical mineral, part of the living creature or seeds that have living energy and symbolize growth.

 I fail to see any type of magical energy you can harness from 2 things you find in your storage room.