One last ditch effort to remind you what this game is.

[ShnarfBird]

I like Don't Starve.I play it as it is given to me, and only complain about actual bugs.

[mastodor]

I have a suggestion. In order to cater to the hardcore crowd and keep them away from making the game unplayable for casuals (who, if well farmed, can feed klei for a long time) while having fun...why not have more scenarios like adventure mode. puzzles, challenges and maybe seasonal events like a christmas ladder/race to lets say... day 100 with hounds every 3 days? let modders work on scenarios/competitions too. Competitive/challenging games can cater to casuals as well. And that's the key to profitability. that said, i never knew about the birdcage exploit. if used that way it does seem pretty op. dragonpie isn't as op because it stops in winter. but unlimited eggs from monster meat is a bit much.

[501105]

haven't played binding of isaac but is it like you will unlock an OP item at the end then use it for new game+?

Basically you have 6 or so different characters. Being able to finish the game is a fairly big challenge and to unlock all items you need to defeat the game multiple times with each character. Your idea somehow reminds me of that, in that it sounds like you need to finish the game a lot of times in order to have all customize options available to you.

[TGS]

Some games are meant to cater to a variety of players, some aren't. I would have to say a game titled DON'T STARVE, that advertises itself as an uncompromising survival game falls in to the latter. But i'm not even suggesting that Klei ignore you, I want you to have options. But I want you to fall in to the background where the hardcore crowd is now, because the game was advertised to attract us, not you.

Ill go back to my horror game analogy. Should a horror game cater to people who dislike being frightened? Should the scary moments be something you can toggle? should the creatures in it have an option to look less scary? should the blood be able to turned in to sparkly butterfly's?

Of course not, I would imagine that when creating a horror game, you would expect people that like horror games to buy the game, anyone else is a bonus. But why on earth would someone who hates being frightened buy a horror game? I get the same feeling here, why did casual gamers buy a game advertised as hardcore if they didn't want a hardcore experience.

Apples and oranges. For your comparison to make sense Don't starve would need the option to turn off hunger or insanity completely. This ist NOT the case!

By the way, I never said I am a casual gamer. Spent quite a while in Don't Starve, but I don't see why casual players should be discouraged (as the copies they will buy will help this wonderful company to make more games as enjoyable as this one). This whole discussion makes no sense to me, this is why I'm speaking up. The current update was the first I played since december. After a couple of deaths I survive without troubel 150+ days, so much for that. (I am currently not playing adventure mode because I do not want to start with it before its finished. But from what I heard I assume it gets increasingly harder, which sounds like a perfect way to increase the games intensity and at the same time allows new players to find into the game).

Look. We're all gamers, we all love entertainment. Each of us have different tastes, and that's why we have the right to state different opinions. Survival games are not supposed to be easy, they require knowledge and skill. Remember, all of us were "noobs" at one point, but we learned to play better, and that's where the enjoyment comes from.

And still a "noob" will die plenty times when starting to play the game. Even touchstones are almost useless if you do not prepare a survival package next to them beforehands, which something newer players won't think about. There are also hounds, which will attack you completely unexpectedly at the first time playing. Treeguards spawning will also surprise you and the same goes for the growing spider nests and the spawning queens. Swamps are utterly ridiculous during your first visit of this biome and will most definately kill you without a log suit. And then there is the winter that suddenly starts and completely change big parts of the gameplay.

To top it off there is the ludicrous powerful deerclops, which you can hardly beat by yourself (which annoys me, since I'd actually call it an exploit to let a tree guard kill it), which destroyed my fire pit in the middle of the night during my first encounter, leaving me in utter darkness and frantically trying to build a torch (at the same time it leaves normal camp fires unharmed... is this a bug?).

Also, insanity is something that drains so slow, you can easily forget about it in your first play until you reach a point were the shadows suddenly start attacking you and freak you out.

So I'd say there is plenty of stuff to kill you and learn from if you'd play the game now for the first time. Also the enjoyment is not from getting killed, but from overcoming obstacles and NOT getting killed by them.

The majority of us are not saying; "No more world customizable option! Nonono!", we just want the game to be more difficult. For the most of us who played the heck out of the game, we want more challenges.

Customizable options also allow you to make the game more difficult?

I agree that there could be more challenges. I disagree that this should be done due to making not starving or not becoming insane more difficult, as this would end in a much more tedious experience for me and just add chores which makes the game less enjoyable. Instead I'd like to see new mobs, more rare items, which you can only get by taking a big risk and in general more stuff to experience (I have high hopes toward adventure mode in this regard). Or in other words, don't make current mechanics harsher to make the game more difficult, add new things that present a novel challenge, while also giving me unique rewards. That is, in my opinion, a much better way to make the game more enjoyable for everybody!

The matter is not that thing could be easy.

I've read the birdcage topic. Seeing people tell "don't use it if it make the game too easy" is frustrating for the skilled player. Yes, a new player must learn without dying all the day and finally not playing.

But the answer about problem of balance like the birdcage shouldn't be "don't use it". The game must offer content to the hard gamer, and the casual ask for maintain content for them, but tell the hardcore gamer to deal with it or not use it.

The only world customisation is not sufficient enough because in some case (birdcage, etc), the solution can't be balance by the existing option.

No, the other players do not say "don't use it", but "don't exploit" it (same for honey etc.). That makes that whole birdcage thread utterly ridiculous. Yes, you can survive with a birdcage, a crockpot and a spiderfarm. Still, this is incredible dull, boring and repetitive and you have plenty of other ways to not starve. Thus, it does NOT break the game, because what kills you is something completely different anyway. On the other hand, the bird cage allows me to do something with the else almost useless monster meat instead of just letting it rot. Since tallbirds became rather seldom (I have 1-2 on default maps currently) and I almost never find eggs in their nests, its a nice way to get something to replace the tallbird eggs in the corresponding crock pot recipes. Give me more uses for monster meat (maybe a way to extract 1 nightmare fuel out of several slaps of monster meat) and I'll stop giving the spoiling ones to my bird. It's that simple. Currently, monster meat is pretty useless besides bird food and filler for some crock pot recipes. This means the problem is not that the bird cage is OP, but that there is too much monster meat and too little to do with. So stop your moaning and think of constructive ways to solve the problem!

I ask people on steam if the game is hard or easy, the answer is always: game is easy.

Last person I asked has around 26 hours of game play, not that much, and says the game is easy.

26 hours is more than a whole day! That would be about 1 week constant playing after work for me. Please consider there are also people on this world that don't have so much time at hands for video games and put it in perspective. I should be able to master the basic game mechanics while playing a couple of hours every other day and not after playing straight for a couple days!

If the customization options were better, everyone could get what they want, right now they work like this:

0 never

0.5 less

1 default

1.5 more

3 lots

I don't see big difference between default and less in game.

It would be good if could just enter exact numbers of what we want in a world like: 10 berry bushes, 10 carrots and so on.

I have to agree that the options are not very good right now. I once started a play with "more" tallbirds as usually only 1-2 nests are present in my world. This ended in a tallbird nest around every corner in every biome, which was far to much. I'd rather have a more sensitive way to tune the environment. Maybe a slidebar would be preferable?

[randompandora]

I've been with don't starve since before the shovel update. I stopped playing after the last update the health increase, touch stone implementation, and sanity rain reduction drove me away. I poked a bit around the forums today and the first thing I see is _Q_ getting blasted about wanting an OBVIOUS exploit to be fixed. Saw a lot of funny stuff in that thread. I need to remind you of somethings.

This game is an UNCOMPROMISING SURVIVAL GAME. It literally says this, In Kevins own words its meant to be like a rogue like. No it is not for casual gamers, no it is not for you to build little sandbox bases to your hearts content. Everyone who has claimed this is objectively wrong. The games own description proves you wrong and their is no point in debating it. You wouldn't ask for a horror game to be less scary would you?

Now what did happened, is Klei themselves COMPROMISED to cater to casuals, they shouldn't have, but they did and that's why I left. The game still has sometime so i'm hoping they realize this and fix it. The game should focus first and foremost on being a uncompromising survival game, while giving you casuals options to have a slightly easier game. As it stands its catering to to casuals gamers while giving the survival folk options to play a little bit of a harder game, its absurd.

But you guys attacking the *hardcore crowd* needs to stop, because your wrong, the game is advertised to cater to us, not you. And when it doesn't, we get mad and we have a right to. How would you feel if you bought a game advertised as super casual sandboxy loveyness and a bunch of us hardcore dudes came to the forums and the devs changed the game to be hard as nails?

Find out what uncomprimising means. You see your entire arguement is a paradox. If they are catering to anyone they have compromised. You seem to be upset that the base settings aren't to the standard of difficulty that you perfer, the same is the case for those who think it is too difficult. I believe that this issue has already been addressed in the best manner possible by allowing you to personally set the parameters of your world to your liking (within limits). So in essence you have nobody to blame but yourself for not taking the initiative to set the game to the way you enjoy it.

[archblue1206]

i think ppl here should stop reacting on anyones post...its really not helping don't starve...

[Snob]

Opinions are still opinions, not commands from the higher God to tell the developers to up the difficulty just because you got good at the game.

Gahh! Sciencemachine, can't you see that I'm trying really hard to unite the community? Stop ignoring the rest! When did I quote on quote "command" anyone? ):

Is that a hint of political correctness I smell? Who told you that such genres are suppose to be hard? Where does this standard come from exactly?

Hard? When did I say "hard"? Do you like to breeze through a game with no trouble whatsoever?

So, you're shunning new players for being new? What kind of practice is that? Also, you just linked me your thread that says exactly to remove the difficulty options. You can't have it both ways!

Err.. I may have put the subject unclearly and confusingly, my apologies. I have no idea what you're trying to say, but the link I provided, was to show the amount of people who disliked the idea of a "difficulty setting". I'm wasn't even trying to point out the new players! I was just stating that the enjoyment comes from the accomplishment of learning.

And Klei is getting there. Their not Gods nor wizards, and thus can't grant you your perfect "uncompromising" survival game. After all it was your own fault for investing your money and time into their game. The devs can ignore your voice as much as they want to because you're not really entitled to much.

Then what's the point of this thread? It's for suggestions and feedback, not for mindlessly criticizing the game! We have to provide suggestions and feedback to help the Devs make the quote on quote "perfect" "uncompromising" survival game" they can make. Thanks for teaching me that they weren't gods and wizards, I couldn't have guessed.

One of your goons just told me straight in the face how much they don't care about the majority. Please tell me how that means you "hardcore" gamers want everyone to enjoy it while demanding it to be harder for newer players?

"Goons"? I officially despise you.And for differentiating the community into different, and hateful sides. I really do. Edited April 5, 2013 by Snob

[archblue1206]

suggestions/criticisms are meant for the devs...not for any type of player..CASUALS VS. HARDCORE GAMERS!

Edited April 5, 2013 by archblue1206

[Snob]

casuals vs. Hardcore gamers!

DING ding DING!

[Lumina]

No, the other players do not say "don't use it", but "don't exploit" it (same for honey etc.). That makes that whole birdcage thread utterly ridiculous. Yes, you can survive with a birdcage, a crockpot and a spiderfarm. Still, this is incredible dull, boring and repetitive and you have plenty of other ways to not starve. Thus, it does NOT break the game, because what kills you is something completely different anyway. On the other hand, the bird cage allows me to do something with the else almost useless monster meat instead of just letting it rot. Since tallbirds became rather seldom (I have 1-2 on default maps currently) and I almost never find eggs in their nests, its a nice way to get something to replace the tallbird eggs in the corresponding crock pot recipes. Give me more uses for monster meat (maybe a way to extract 1 nightmare fuel out of several slaps of monster meat) and I'll stop giving the spoiling ones to my bird. It's that simple. Currently, monster meat is pretty useless besides bird food and filler for some crock pot recipes. This means the problem is not that the bird cage is OP, but that there is too much monster meat and too little to do with. So stop your moaning and think of constructive ways to solve the problem!

No, no, some post were clearly "don't use it."Exemple.And it isn't a good answer because it mean that the skilled player must prive himself of content.I would be pleased discut about the birdcage, monster meat and how it must be change but i think this is not the topic for.But i agree : it's better thinking of constructive ways to solve the problem.The point important here, is the acceptation of the other mode of playing : and thinking of how balance thing for please as many people as possible, the one who love the game hard and the one who prefer the easy version of the game.And telling "don't use it" is a bad answer for two reason :- if there is an exploit, the exploit must be corrected, for let only the normal behaviour usable.- "don't use it" means that skilled player must have less content, and it isn't fair , because they have right to have a good game too.

[NaviSirus]

Basically you have 6 or so different characters. Being able to finish the game is a fairly big challenge and to unlock all items you need to defeat the game multiple times with each character. Your idea somehow reminds me of that, in that it sounds like you need to finish the game a lot of times in order to have all customize options available to you.

Do wants! It's a great idea!

[archblue1206]

ppl here loves DS so much...funny how ppl are fighting of how a game should be..:kiwi:they want to keep DS so much that they want it to be the best..

[501105]

Do wants! It's a great idea!

Even if it is an incredibly tedious gameplay element?I could get behind it if it unlocked something like skins though (could be some fun skins), but not the customization options.

[archblue1206]

Do wants! It's a great idea!

me too..i like the idea of having to finish the game multiple times to unlock stuff...but with incentives for every run of course...

[NaviSirus]

Even if it is an incredibly tedious gameplay element?I could get behind it if it unlocked something like skins though (could be some fun skins), but not the customization options.

Well that was the point, there's speculation about the randomly findable Skeleton will be how players unlock a new Skeleton character by performing something with the body in-game. I myself, and I hope I can speak for a lot of people, LOVE this kind of idea over simply surviving for a while and then dying to unlock more characters with experience.If this is applied to something like customization options for the world and perhaps some elements in these customization settings which aren't attainable as such in a default-generated world, it could add incentive to unlock them rather than just play to make the game easier.

[archblue1206]

Even if it is an incredibly tedious gameplay element?I could get behind it if it unlocked something like skins though (could be some fun skins), but not the customization options.

something that will make the game less tedious..

[501105]

Well that was the point, there's speculation about the randomly findable Skeleton will be how players unlock a new Skeleton character by performing something with the body in-game. I myself, and I hope I can speak for a lot of people, LOVE this kind of idea over simply surviving for a while and then dying to unlock more characters with experience.If this is applied to something like customization options for the world and perhaps some elements in these customization settings which aren't attainable as such in a default-generated world, it could add incentive to unlock them rather than just play to make the game easier.

I can see where you are coming from and I am all for improving exploration in any way possible. I do however feel like there should be something where new players can dip their toes into the water before being thrown into the pool, custom is just that. Taking away most options from custom would take the use of it being a tutorial of sorts away. Once you have custom complete you would only use it for an extremely difficult game, since you had to already beat the game several times to unlock them. What I do fully agree on is that unlocking characters with XP is simply boring and needs to change. [MENTION=3175]archblue1206[/MENTION] It could either be extremely tedious or very rewarding on how it is handled. Why not have every run unlock some sort of new danger or special challenge? I would enjoy unlocking some kind of special boss to fight, maybe a giant queen bee or a huge man eating plant for example.

[_Q_]

Every discussion about exploit fixing or changing game balance is changing into Witch-hunt so:

[Palpetinus]

Every discussion about exploit fixing or changing game balance is changing into Witch-hunt so:

Ooh, asian symbols on youtube always remind me of

Seriously guys, chill out.I mean, holy cucumber, you act like the game is 100% unplayable.Trust the devs!

[501105]

Ooh, asian symbols on youtube always remind me of

Seriously guys, chill out.I mean, holy cucumber, you act like the game is 100% unplayable.Trust the devs!

Agreed, and every opinion is something extra for the devs to listen to, even if it is not a populair one at times.The fact that we players give each other trouble at times is just because we all like this game so much. Edited April 5, 2013 by 501105

[_Q_]

I will be back after update. I will leave this here:

[MilleniumCount]

It's like two gardeners fighting over the best water for their beloved flower. The one wants only springwater to touch this precious petals the other swears on water destillated out of really rare potatoes. About fighting they shouldn't forget that they both love the flower and Shouldn't risk drowning it or hurting one another with their watering can.....

[Palpetinus]

It's like two gardeners fighting over the best water for their beloved flower. The one wants only springwater to touch this precious petals the other swears on water destillated out of really rare potatoes. About fighting they shouldn't forget that they both love the flower and Shouldn't risk drowning it or hurting one another with their watering can.....

Excellent comparison, 10/10. *claps hands like only a gentleman would do*

[Avelarius]

suggestions/criticisms are meant for the devs...not for any type of player..CASUALS VS. HARDCORE GAMERS!

Damn! I am both. Should I beat myself?Or should I keep trying to let one game style inside and the other outside the gateway?

[gnarlytreeman]

lol. you know it's hard for me to compare a true "horror survival game" with this one because of the artwork, having said that the scheme doesn't match.

[MENTION=22716]Lumina[/MENTION] if things got harder to the point these folks are speaking of a lot of the basic research items would become inaccessible to quite a few players.

btw i don't consider myself casual, moderate would be a proper term, some days i play some days i don't but when i do i spend a lot of seat time. i consider this game more of a "comedic mad science puzzle survival" actual horror having nothing to do with it. having said that i believe klei may be inventing a new style for this survivalist genre of game, one whose formula will likely be quite successful if they stick to the current formula with a few minor fixes. they already aren't following in the footsteps of other survival games, and i like this, if you don't like that go play an existing survival game. Also while there are survivalist fans out there, considering the general gaming community, there aren't that many, in comparison to the average gamer who might play wow, skyrim, or consoles. The super survivalist fans really need to understand the whole encompassing viewpoint here, that is while they thrive on difficulty, a lot of people will be like "this sucks i'm gonna go do something else" and never buy it.(on a side note they should let players try it out for 2 hours instead of 20 minutes or w/e it is, that will really suck people in.) if the game doesn't end up with a larger player base, all the late game stuff(which is where the true survivalist mode is) will not ever get fully fleshed out as development will cease. what this may be the case we need to keep in mind the kind folk developing the game DON'T WANT TO STARVE EITHER so they will cater to the larger player population, for the simple reason that they need sales. However at the same time don't expect the game to become farmville or not to get harder it definitely should, the difficulty to a point is what get people engaged with the fun the game has to offer, but just not taking it over the top is really important.

i personally have both played a ton of games pc, consoles, handhelds etc for years, games with strategies and setups a lot of people haven't ever even heard of and some really popular stuff. doom, doom2, diablo, diablo 2, everquest, wow, morrowwind, rubies of eventide, ryl, sonic the hedge hog, mario brothers, gemcraft, laxius power, zelda, pokemon, monopoly, vampire: masquerade and a lot of other games i've forgotten. The games i played the least had either a) learning curves that were astronomical or b) a difficulty level that was just stoopid hard, the ones i played the most or got hooked on until they ended had a) unusual themes, b) hardcore modes c) tons of content d) moderate to lots of complexity.

(btw try out gemcraft, gemcraft 2, and laxius power those were disproportionately fun to their free factor, i would also suggest rubies of eventide, but that one got shut down a few years ago, there was also a neat little indie that had a penguin for the main character that could hack machines)

so far don't starve hits 3 out of 4 good points almost gets the astronomical learning curve point but not quite there are a lot worse, and if it gets the stoopid hard difficulty i will just set the game down and never play again, even if it gets the content point, simply because at that level the game just isn't fun anymore.

anyway got long winded there, it's like this Don't Starve has a lot of elements that i do like, it would be great if it had more story, maybe the ability to change certain difficulty settings to a harder position (like hunger/sanity decay/mob damage). What i really don't want to see is the superhardcore guys get what they want to the ruining of the fun for the rest of us, yes they have some valid points on balancing the game, but by no means should they be completely catered to.