[Opinion] Locking Lunar Grimoire Behind Iridescent Gem Is PERFECT

[Masterblaster38]

9 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean the ability to mass produce dark swords that don't drain sanity seems pretty good to me.

Oh yeah, but the flowers to bath bombs already limit that as you Will need to wait for them to respawn apart that you will also need to wait 1 full day.

4 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Not very. Plenty of people have discussed how the book's usefulness is extremely exaggerated,  but I think the two latest comments by @Ornge in this thread sum it up the best. 

I don't get why people are acting like spending a ton of sanity and being tethered to the base since you need to get a new book every 2 days is even a good light source, much less overpowered, just like I don't get how they think slightly easier access to helmets is too good when Wigfrid already does that way better. And WX is already permanent night vision, that one is actually for free and actually available day 1. He can get that and immunity to temperature and plenty more for basically no cost. Wickerbottom is only overpowered compared to Wilson, but even looking at the base books Wickerbottom had before the rework (which cost things like seeds) making full moons isn't nearly as useful as things like automatically killing bosses or making tons of health, hunger, krampii, blow darts, grass, twigs, stone fruit, etc. Full moons are a useful new tool but way weaker than what she already had available. 

Yeah I also think that, is just that now one gem doesn't seem as balanced and to a book like this that like you said, It should be easier and It doesn't have a very powerfull effect and Now the book is kinda mid.

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, Masterblaster38 said:

Oh yeah, but the flowers to bath bombs already limit that as you Will need to wait for them to respawn apart that you will also need to wait 1 full day.

Personally I ended up with more than i needed but that does make me wonder can silvaculture speed their growth speed up? Also you can farm it nightly which shouldn't be a big issue since I really you would want your crop farm on the moon too in my opinion.

That being said alone the moon doesn't seem very amazing but all the small advantages come together as one big advantage.

[Masterblaster38]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Personally I ended up with more than i needed but that does make me wonder can silvaculture speed their growth speed up? Also you can farm it nightly which shouldn't be a big issue since I really you would want your crop farm on the moon too in my opinion.

Lunar bombs need 6 flowers to make and flowers drop from trees in lunar island, 2 from one tree in tall and 1 from medium and short ones and some are in the ground, you can't regenerate flowers themselves and you need to caught the Moon Moths with a Bug Net and plant them to make a Lune Tree Sapling and small ones don't spawn moths so yeah you can if you get an absurd amount of things I believe tho is very hard.

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, Masterblaster38 said:

Lunar bombs need 6 flowers to make and flowers drop from trees in lunar island, 2 from one tree in tall and 1 from medium and short ones and some are in the ground, you can't regenerate flowers themselves and you need to caught the Moon Moths with a Bug Net and plant them to make a Lune Tree Sapling and small ones don't spawn moths so yeah you can if you get an absurd amount of things I believe tho is very hard.

I'm aware though I don't consider hard just time consuming but much much faster than the alternative.

[maxwell_winters]

4 minutes ago, Masterblaster38 said:

 you can if you get an absurd amount of things I believe tho is very hard.

Trust me, Wickerbottom mains will find a way to mass farm glass cutters within a week after the rework is released. 

[Masterblaster38]

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I'm aware though I don't consider hard just time consuming but much much faster than the alternative.

1° what's the alternative exactly?

Oh yeah I have to mention all is for one bath bomb and then 5 Moon shards and you need 6 for one glass cutter.

4 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Trust me, Wickerbottom mains will find a way to mass farm glass cutters within a week after the rework is released. 

Nah I don't think so as you Will also need a lot of other books.

And well you can mass farm things anywhere with dedication so thats something unavoidable specially because we are talking about wickerbottom,the character Who is most know because of mass farming things.

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, Masterblaster38 said:

1° what's the alternative exactly?

Oh yeah I have to mention all is for one bath bomb and then 5 Moon shards and you need 6 for one glass cutter.

Nah I don't think so as you Will also need a lot of other books.

And well you can mass farm things anywhere with dedication so thats something unavoidable.

Natural full moon every 2.5 hours.

[Masterblaster38]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

Luna llena natural cada 2,5 horas.

Oh yeah true, but well wickerbottom is know for making farm things easier, so It has sense.

I will now go so if someone responds I Will probably respond later.

[Mysterious box]

8 minutes ago, Masterblaster38 said:

Oh yeah true, but well wickerbottom is know for making farm things easier, so It has sense.

I will now go so if someone responds I Will probably respond later.

No argument from me there still a benefit tho which is my point.

[finn from human]

Going to give my take on the Lunar Grimoire for the sake of Klei probably reading this thread: which is that before the Lunar Grimoire I basically could not interact with full moon-specific content. The coordination it takes to plan for the day that the next full moon will come and to plan my actions so that I 1. will notice the full moon coming when it's a couple days away and 2. will not be in the middle of any other task when it comes, is... something that I genuinely feel my brain is not capable of. Even grabbing Glommer on the first moon is difficult for me if I'm too far from the deciduous to get there in the few minutes I have. So for me, the Lunar Grimoire allowed me to engage with content I normally wouldn't be able to at all, like farming werepigs and getting Glommer without stress and (in my current world where I still have the book crafted) eventually farming moon glass. But now with the change, I'm basically limited to two of these books forever and from a part of the caves I rarely if ever visit, so in future worlds I will go back to being unable to engage in moon content without asking friends to just do it for me.

I don't know the design or balance the book is meant to have, but my two cents is that previously it allowed me to engage with a ton of the game's content I was unable to, and now it's back to me being unable to.

[maxwell_winters]

3 minutes ago, meow meow meow said:

I don't know the design or balance the book is meant to have, but my two cents is that previously it allowed me to engage with a ton of the game's content I was unable to, and now it's back to me being unable to.

You put in hard work one time and don't have to care about the lunar cycle anymore. That's the point. Completely removing a mechanic must have a high price. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

59 minutes ago, meow meow meow said:

Going to give my take on the Lunar Grimoire for the sake of Klei probably reading this thread: which is that before the Lunar Grimoire I basically could not interact with full moon-specific content. The coordination it takes to plan for the day that the next full moon will come and to plan my actions so that I 1. will notice the full moon coming when it's a couple days away and 2. will not be in the middle of any other task when it comes, is... something that I genuinely feel my brain is not capable of. Even grabbing Glommer on the first moon is difficult for me if I'm too far from the deciduous to get there in the few minutes I have. So for me, the Lunar Grimoire allowed me to engage with content I normally wouldn't be able to at all, like farming werepigs and getting Glommer without stress and (in my current world where I still have the book crafted) eventually farming moon glass. But now with the change, I'm basically limited to two of these books forever and from a part of the caves I rarely if ever visit, so in future worlds I will go back to being unable to engage in moon content without asking friends to just do it for me.

I don't know the design or balance the book is meant to have, but my two cents is that previously it allowed me to engage with a ton of the game's content I was unable to, and now it's back to me being unable to.

im a mess when at organising my time while playing so i mess up a lot of full moons, new moons and even planned seasons. Doesnt mean "im uneable" to do it or, in your example, that you "are uneable ". if you can play you are able to engage with content maybe some players needs more practise than others in certain areas but checking day count or checking moon dials is just being use to them and having a developed routine. Nothing crazy

I dont think that should be taken into account to balance stuff if we do then everything should be tunned down cuz there are people that "are uneable" to experience summer cuz they die in spring, they "are uneable" to experience moon island because "are uneable to chop that much trees", etc when is a matter of experience and getting use to how the game works

[finn from human]

21 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

snip

I am going to be honest this is a very mean and unproductive reply. I'm not saying I'm a little baby who's bad at the game and needs Luigi to play it for me, I'm saying that my 5 years of experience of trying desperately to get my brain to keep track of full moons and my 5 years of experience failing at doing it each time makes it clear that I cannot keep up with this. It's something that the rest of the game's content does not require of me and it is incompatible with how my brain works. The book fixed this, and now it doesn't anymore with the new recipe, is all I am trying to say for Klei's consideration. Surely you can see how this is different from someone checks notes... not wanting to chop lune trees...?????

[Primalflower]

44 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

I dont think that should be taken into account to balance stuff if we do then everything should be tunned down cuz there are people that "are uneable" to experience summer cuz they die in spring, they "are uneable" to experience moon island because "are uneable to chop that much trees", etc when is a matter of experience and getting use to how the game works

hey this reply sucks and you're being a jerk. there is a clear issue being described here that for all you know could have (and indeed has been) a thing for years of play, not something that you just get over, and then you compare it to the thought absolutely filled with misunderstanding that such a thing is comparable to not being able to get 16 logs for a boat. It's spelled "unable".

[GelatinousCube]

1 hour ago, meow meow meow said:

I am going to be honest this is a very mean and unproductive reply. I'm not saying I'm a little baby who's bad at the game and needs Luigi to play it for me, I'm saying that my 5 years of experience of trying desperately to get my brain to keep track of full moons and my 5 years of experience failing at doing it each time makes it clear that I cannot keep up with this. It's something that the rest of the game's content does not require of me and it is incompatible with how my brain works. The book fixed this, and now it doesn't anymore with the new recipe, is all I am trying to say for Klei's consideration. Surely you can see how this is different from someone checks notes... not wanting to chop lune trees...?????

I used to be terrible at keeping track of Full Moons and New Moons. I just built a ton of Moon dials all over my world, a few in my main mega base - one right near the center where I am the most frequently mass cooking up dishes and main storage area that I always come back to in order to drop off resources etc, one near my werepig farm/trap and one or two others in spots where I pass by frequently or they fit as decoration. Also have at least one at every outpost - oasis - beequeen area - dfly area - moon island base etc. 

This way they are at every one of my key locations and it is now rare that I don't know when a Full Moon is coming. I still don't utilise each and every one but I am almost always aware when one is coming if I want to do some full moon content. 

No need to learn/remember the moon cycle this way and you get plenty of advance warning when a full moon is coming. I generally notice the very start of the day as I am frequently starting the day in a spot with a Moon Dial on the screen. 

Basically the Moon Dial is your friend and you can never have too many of them if they are doing their job. You don't have to keep track of anything and literally just need to glance at it while walking past it and see if its overflowing. 

[goatt]

@Masterblaster38 @Ornge My math was wrong.

2 lunar Books can cover 96%+ of the nights, not 100%.

 

because lunar book pushes off natural pull moon indefinitely.

and wickerbottoms in vicinity doubles the regen rates.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 hours ago, meow meow meow said:

 

 

6 hours ago, Primalflower said:

 

last comment here, not wanna keep doing an effort to dont sound like "git gut" to just see how the comment is taking like an atack because people can't argue, if someone disagrees with them they get offended

do you have 5 years of experience? im here before even krampus was added and still missing and forgetting full moons, new moons and task in certain seasons (as a said as a way of "i feel you" so you dont take it as an atack but clearly the effort is worthless) and bet everybody that plays this game has experienced it. Arround 10 years and i dont think that should be considere a factor to take into account (and less to make the game a joke once saying that an absurd recipe,like 2 moon rock, was to be a better option than a balanced and fitting recipe like the current) , is my damn opinion, you dont like it? i dont like yours, for that is the forum

i guess the game "shouldnt expect" you to check if the day count has a 1 in their last digit (which is totally comparable to be able to chop 4 trees until you get experience) like it "shouldnt expect" you to wear armor and weapon or making minimal effort in general

[Parusoid]

9 hours ago, Masterblaster38 said:

but the flowers to bath bombs already limit

Moom shards in caves also respawn, each rock has 10% chance to regrow during full moon 

[Ornge]

22 hours ago, maxwell_winters said:

Even if you don't find the full moon itself powerful, removing this aspect of time management is actually what makes the book powerful. Not being tied to any fixed cycles is what makes this item so good. 

I suppose it does. I still believe the cost requiring an iridescent gem is overkill for a book who's best use is farming moonglass. But atleast I can get behind this line of reasoning if the book stays the way it. Though I still would prefer the gem being removed from the recipe.

16 hours ago, goatt said:

By the way, how do you turn it off after turning it on with your leisure? I'd like to learn.

I wrongly assumed you could just hammer the celestial alters to de-activate the moonstorm. I tried it just now and they shock you for 10 damage if you try creating the very funny "killed by celestial sanctum" line. I still stand by everything else I said there. Starting the moon event is not nearly as hard as it sounds. When I said "afk for 50 days" I did not literally mean do nothing for 50 days. It was a hyperbole. My point was that the only reason the quest takes so long is because pearl is time locked to summer, which starts roughly 7 hours into a world. My point was that you can spawn the storm it really quickly if you were to do a summer start, taking possibly 20 days slower than just crafting the book itself.
 

16 hours ago, goatt said:

  Hide contents

5 days in cave

5 days for clearing the map

2 days for finding salt and killing cookie cutter

2 day for pearl bush, drying rack, lureplant, catching butterfly and planting flowers

2 day for clearing trash.

2 days for getting big fish or sending clothing.

3 days for getting blue gems (at least 5 gems?) and marbles

6 to 10 days for hoarding resources and building base. (chopping trees, fertilizing massive amount of new plants food source to build an afk base)

2 days locating lunar atlars on the main continent

2 days for killing goats, moose and crafting weather pain (assuming solo)

1 day for picking cactus flower and getting pearl

1 day for fighting crab king

2 days to move the atlars all onto the lunar island.

 

The above is already 35 days, not including beefalo related stuff.

 

So you solemnly swear it is impossible to do this before day 30 by yourself?

[goatt]

5 hours ago, Ornge said:

So you solemnly swear it is impossible to do this before day 30 by yourself?

In default setting, summer and crown atlar is locked behind day 51.

But if setting (season length only, no map size change) is changed, I'm happy to be be proven wrong.

 

(But even if the world record is shorter than 30 days, it's not representative of average players' experience. Like in P.E. class in a regular school, the grades are based on average person performance, not the world records.)

 

(But I would be still excited to watch someone get it done before day 30)

[Masterblaster38]

On 7/23/2022 at 9:40 AM, Parusoid said:

Moom shards in caves also respawn, each rock has 10% chance to regrow during full moon 

Oh true.

The only thing that pushes back a little is the thing of not being able to read in the caves.

[Parusoid]

7 hours ago, Masterblaster38 said:

Oh true.

The only thing that pushes back a little is the thing of not being able to read in the caves.

I dont think it's a push back, just read on surface and then go back to caves 

[abrocator]

On 7/22/2022 at 6:33 AM, Sapientis said:

[Wortox]

Wortox has a serious downside. Wickerbottom's downsides are still similar enough to the DS 1.0 days or whatever and are a joke (probably because the devs didn't know that things like sleeping would never be used by anyone).

[oregu]

On 7/22/2022 at 12:58 AM, goatt said:

thread

This post is confusing to me. I hope I'm not wrong but I think what you're meaning to say is 'it is a high level light source, but it's cheaper than most light sources around its level'? Her books are meant to have a lot more bang for your buck anyways, Wicker is supposed to be powerful because of how knowledgeable she is. Her nerfs were a little confusing in retrospect, though because now she's more buffed than that. Maybe they wanted to put the spotlight on other survivors more? Wouldn't know. However, moonstorms aren't really comparable to the book because it has an infinite effect with no upkeep like the book has. Its more a choice you make because of the downsides it has (having to wear desert goggles and take hits from gestalts every once in a while).
You may as well argue that you need to make applied horticulture more expensive because it's not comparable to the cost of moggles. (You can regrow glowberries indefinitely with the book and use lureplant to harvest).

[Cheggf]

10 hours ago, abrocator said:

Wortox has a serious downside. Wickerbottom's downsides are still similar enough to the DS 1.0 days or whatever and are a joke (probably because the devs didn't know that things like sleeping would never be used by anyone).

Why is bad sanity a serious downside but bad sanity is a joke downside? Plenty of people sleep, and her food basically becomes worthless when it becomes stale, and she loses tons of sanity from her books, and she spawns shadows when reading without enough sanity. If all of that is a "joke" then "oh no I need to wear a tam and I can't do things with minions that 'nobody does' anyways" is just as funny.