[Game Update] - 516063

[Mike23Ua]

3 minutes ago, h2mk said:

Ya guys and youtuber joeshmoecoolstuff is excellent example we can kill fuelweaver on day 25 and he doesn't even touch anything to do with an opal gem or the full moon so like why is this stuff being added even @klei??

Actually I’m a little bit mad with the new craft requiring opals (which as I’ve stated I don’t know how to reliably get) just seems like something only very experienced players are going to be able to do…

MEANWHILE the Curse of Moon Quay (before the huge nerf) was so easy even a Monkey could figure it out, become A Monkey… Trade Bananas to your lovely Monkey Queen to remove your Monkey Curse as the curse transcended through death, it wasn’t rocket science.. & it added some actual fun survival content into the game- but then the Nerf came.. and now all the player has to do is die to lose their Trinkets and remove the curse- completely removing the entire POINT of the Queen removing necklaces from your inventory when given Bananas.

Feel like Opal gem was only added as fan service to the elites begging for it. 

[PetulantPansy]

51 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

This is absolutely horrible. Let me explain why:

1) this book although it was strong, its not THAT powerful to require an opal gem to craft. I think requiring 2 lunar moths is more than enough nerf for it, if preventing early game abuse was the point.

2) this will make Wickerbottoms now rush for the archives, steal the free opals and curse the world so they have to make the lunar event THREE TIMES just to start the quest there

3) Without stealing the original 2 free opal gems, a book this expensive will most likely never be crafted: the materials come too late for it to be effective, you'd just do better going all the way to activate the moonstorm event.

Please review this (IMO very poorly thought suggestion) and just make it 2 moon moths only instead. Or add 5 moon stones and 5 moon moths, doesn't matter, just remove opal gem from it. keeping it at this price is the same as effectively removing the book altogether.

This isn't true at all. Wicker's early game full moon nights allow her to easily replace the opals taken from the archives if the wicker is responsible. As far as trolling goes, anyone can go into the archives and take the free opals and make them disappear. 

[Jaisac HF]

ok i think it's great that they changed the price of the moon grimoire, but i feel like it's a bit expensive, and i'm not one of those people who does something complicated if they can do it in an easier way.
I'll steal the gem and assume that's the right way to do it.

[Arcwell]

4 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

This isn't true at all. Wicker's early game full moon nights allow her to easily replace the opals taken from the archives if the wicker is responsible. As far as trolling goes, anyone can go into the archives and take the free opals and make them disappear. 

The point is that adding iridescent gem to the crafting cost doesn't accomplish making the book harder to acquire in the first place. It only adds unnecessary grind to recover from it. As far as I'm aware this is now effectively the only item in the game with a backlogged crafting cost.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Arcwell

[maxwell_winters]

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

MEANWHILE the Curse of Moon Quay 

I doubt that they're done with Moon Quay. My guess, devs just had to switch to Wicker's rework and they will come back to monke in the next QoL. 

8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Feel like Opal gem was only added as fan service to the elites begging for it. 

No one was begging for Opal gem. We gave feedback in form of arguments why the recipe should be changed and offered suggestions.

[PetulantPansy]

2 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

The point is that adding iridescent gem to the crafting cost doesn't accomplish making the book harder to acquire in the first place. It only adds unnecessary grind to recover from it. As far as I'm aware this is now effectively the only item in the game with a backlogged crafting cost.

I was responding to someone who said that adding the iridescent effectively "removed the book altogether". That's just not true. 

[Guille6785]

38 minutes ago, Duck986 said:

Klei: makes cheap book for infinite full moon

Everyone: O MAH GAWD IT'S SO CHEAP!

Klei: nerfs this book

Everyone: O MAH GAWD IT'S SO EXPENSIVE!

there is in fact a better solution than either "go to mosaic and mine 1 moonrock boulder" or "steal the 2 iridescent gems from the archives so anyone who wants to do the lunar questline gets the middle finger"

[Duck986]

Just now, Guille6785 said:

there is in fact a better solution than either "go to mosaic and mine 1 moonrock boulder" or "steal the 2 iridescent gems from the archives so anyone who wants to do the lunar questline gets the middle finger"

Conclusion: play on private servers lol.

[lakhnish]

1 hour ago, HugoM said:

Wortox Map Soul Hops indicators have been adjusted to be more clear on their use.

This is what that looks like now:

Edited July 21, 2022 by lakhnish

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

there is in fact a better solution than either "go to mosaic and mine 1 moonrock boulder" or "steal the 2 iridescent gems from the archives so anyone who wants to do the lunar questline gets the middle finger"

I mean I did get sold on the idea previously of it requiring you using distilled knowledge to unlock the recipe though with how impossible people seem to feel the star caller event is I doubt many would care.

[maxwell_winters]

1 minute ago, Guille6785 said:

there is in fact a better solution than either "go to mosaic and mine 1 moonrock boulder" or "steal the 2 iridescent gems from the archives so anyone who wants to do the lunar questline gets the middle finger"

There is always a risk of gems getting taken away on public servers, even without them being a crafting ingredient. Either someone would be messing with players on purpose, or a newer player might pick it up because they don't know what they do and they look cool. 

As I said, it would be logical to make those two gems unpickable just to be sure. 

[ShadowDuelist]

23 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Now excuse me since it's been awhile since I've done the full questline for the moon event since I find the pearl/crab king part super tedious but how is this possible maybe my memory is faulty but don't you need to max out pearl's friendship to get the pearl? 

They do spring start. My point is that it can be made pretty fast regardless.
 

23 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean you don't have to it's a powerful perk that you "can" put work in for.

If the point is to make it hard, then going to the archives then to moon island is not really hard. Could take you about 15 days to do both. You just curse your world to have to make the lunar event 3 times afterwards.

My points is, Why? What do the full moons REALLY give you? Is it because of light? actually using the starcallers and the mooncallers is much better than just transforming them/deconstructing them at 100%. Using up all those starcallers and mooncallers can take a long time, even if you waste them constantly. Is it because of the early pig skins? In the early game you rarely will have a pig farm setup, you'd do better just feeding them monster meat.

The lunar book is too strong to get it nearly for free in day 2, I get that, Its fine that it doesn't stay that way, but it definitely is not that powerful to have to wait until opal gems are a wasteful resource to craft them. 
And waiting that much usually just overlaps with the moonstorm event. The other option is rushing them, which means you are wasting a better and more expensive item to get a worse item just because its novelty. 

I think the book needs to be somewhere past the first 15 days, but rushing it shouldn't interfere with celestial questline. And getting it at a more normal playthrough shouldn't take as much time and effort as starting the actual better version of full moons every night for free has.

Edited July 21, 2022 by ShadowDuelist

[PetulantPansy]

11 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

there is in fact a better solution than either "go to mosaic and mine 1 moonrock boulder" or "steal the 2 iridescent gems from the archives so anyone who wants to do the lunar questline gets the middle finger"

well shoot. now you have me on the edge of my seat. 

[h2mk]

6 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

novelty. 

you know what else is a novelty? jewelry 

[Arcwell]

13 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

My points is, Why?

This exactly.

It's sorta like giving Lunar grimoire the crafting efficiency of blow darts. Yes you can make them, yes they're powerful, but the cost is so absurdly tedious for the effect it gives that it's no longer worth it in my opinion.

The issue with lunar grimoire costing only 2 moon rocks was that it gave players access to a lategame mechanic (effectively moonstorms) within the first few days. Making it cost moon moth wings already solves this issue by requiring players to find the lunar island (sure you can find it in the first season, but you have to commit to it whereas you could find moonrocks by stumbling into the mosaic biome for a minute). Adding an iridescent gem to the crafting recipe not only doesn't make the recipe harder to get in the first place due to the archives, but it also introduces needless grind after the fact if you ever want to fight Celestial Champion.

Having iridescent gem in the recipe is not good for the game.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Arcwell

[h2mk]

shame people liked the frazzled wires ingredient but not this, i like them both

[Mike23Ua]

12 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

This is what that looks like now:

 

This just makes Wortox the easiest character in the entire game for griefing with now if I’m being honest..

there is power.. and then there is “too much” power- now imagine if you pick to play as Webber or Wurt and you heavily guard your base with tons of Spiders/Merms? 

All the determined Wortox player has to do is see your base on the map and Teleport there burn it with a torch and then teleport literally to the other side of the map afterward.

I guess the only “Balance” I see in this is that the Wortox is required to find and get to my base before it can just teleport freely to it.. but even still it feels excessive. 

[PetulantPansy]

1 minute ago, h2mk said:

you know what else is a novelty? jewelry 

> Klei furiously takes notes, proceeds to add finger slot < 

[h2mk]

1 minute ago, Arcwell said:

blow darts

more betterer in singleplayer

[maxwell_winters]

4 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

It's sorta like giving Lunar grimoire the crafting efficiency of blow darts. Yes you can make them, yes they're powerful, but the cost is so absurdly tedious for the effect it gives that it's no longer worth it in my opinion.

You run out of blow darts. You can craft the Lunar Grimoire once and keep the book in the bookcase. This would be the moon-sumonner that never breaks. In your analogy, it's blow darts that multiply if you don't touch them. 

Edited July 21, 2022 by maxwell_winters

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

This just makes Wortox the easiest character in the entire game for griefing with now if I’m being honest..

there is power.. and then there is “too much” power- now imagine if you pick to play as Webber or Wurt and you heavily guard your base with tons of Spiders/Merms? 

All the determined Wortox player has to do is see your base on the map and Teleport there burn it with a torch and then teleport literally to the other side of the map afterward.

I guess the only “Balance” I see in this is that the Wortox is required to find and get to my base before it can just teleport freely to it.. but even still it feels excessive. 

I mean they could just use a fire dart.

11 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

If the point is to make it hard, then going to the archives then to moon island is not really hard. Could take you about 15 days to do both. You just curse your world to have to make the lunar event 3 times afterwards.

My points is, Why? What do the full moons REALLY give you? Is it because of light? actually using the starcallers and the mooncallers is much better than just transforming them/deconstructing them at 100%. Using up all those starcallers and mooncallers can take a long time, even if you waste them constantly. Is it because of the early pig skins? In the early game you rarely will have a pig farm setup, you'd do better just feeding them monster meat.

The lunar book is too strong to get it nearly for free in day 2, I get that, Its fine that it doesn't stay that way, but it definitely is not that powerful to have to wait until opal gems are a wasteful resource to craft them. 
And waiting that much usually just overlaps with the moonstorm event. The other option is rushing them, which means you are wasting a better and more expensive item to get a worse item just because its novelty. 

I think the book needs to be somewhere past the first 15 days, but rushing it shouldn't interfere with celestial questline. And getting it at a more normal playthrough shouldn't take as much time and effort as starting the actual better version of full moons every night for free has.

I care more about it having fitting materials than it being time gated honestly but I am curious what are your thoughts on this.

17 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean I did get sold on the idea previously of it requiring you using distilled knowledge to unlock the recipe

 

[Duck986]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This just makes Wortox the easiest character in the entire game for griefing with now if I’m being honest..

Yea, adding a soul amount indicator definitely makes griefing much easier, amount number near the cursor wasn't enough /s

[Spino43]

8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This just makes Wortox the easiest character in the entire game for griefing with now if I’m being honest..

2 twigs and 2 grass are still way easier.

[HowlVoid]

What if the book required Glommer's flower instead of the iridescent gem. 

Glommer can be safeguarded by players and more don't spawn if the first one hasn't been killed. This allows for a form of control if people don't want Wicker to make the book. Similarly, Woodie (if he spawned at the start of a new world) has the normal time he's always had to prepare for a full moon (first glommer can't spawn until day 11).  

Is this a better middle ground between moon rocks and iridescent gems?

Edited July 21, 2022 by HowlVoid

[Mike23Ua]

1 minute ago, Spino43 said:

2 twigs and 2 grass are still way easier.

What I mean to say is Wortox can be everywhere.. simultaneously all at once- All you need is a bunch of souls, or bundled stacks of creatures to kill for souls and Wortox can effectively “Blink” around the entire game map to burn each and every players base down.

If I was playing PvP Wortox would be the only character i would pick from that point forward.