Poll: What changes would you like to see for Wanda, if any?

[00petar00]

13 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:

Yeah and none of them are as strong as she is.

Mid/late game no one really compares to her imo.

That's kind of the point of her design, she is a mid/late game character and you don't have access to your abilities like most of the characters at the start.

Nothing can compete with backtrek watch, so that's why she is an undisputed best late game character, when you have a network established and can teleport anywhere on the world and caves with a click of a button.

It just feels like lazy deserter needs to be rebalanced and to allow solo travel because i don't really want to be forced to play Wanda or go back to what i did before, explore the world and see if it is worthwhile to play on it for thousands of days, if wormholes are well placed, if the biomes are how i want them to be, setpieces and so on and if i don't like it, i wasted tens of days and have to regenerate and try again.

It is not easy to find a world that will have everything you want and unless you are planning to just kill bosses and quit, it doesn't matter but i usually play much longer.

[Hornete]

12 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

It just feels like lazy deserter needs to be rebalanced and to allow solo travel because i don't really want to be forced to play Wanda or go back to what i did before

^^^

I think Wanda bringing such easy and convenient teleportation opens the gates for more convenient teleportation coming to others in the late-game too, in my eyes it shows Klei's willing to do it, if they did it with Wanda, why not with others in other ways? Obviously not in a way that it'd triumph over Wanda but a few qol changes can be done with the tele focus and deserter.

[00petar00]

Just now, Hornete said:

^^^

I think Wanda bringing such easy and convenient teleportation opens the gates for more convenient teleportation coming to others in the late-game too, in my eyes it shows Klei's willing to do it, if they did it with Wanda, why not with others in other ways? Obviously not in a way that it'd triumph over Wanda but a few qol changes can be done with the tele focus and deserter.

Lazy deserter has so much potential to make the late game completely different and at least some people would stop asking for Wanda nerfs while i could play another character even if my world generation was bad.

As i said i regenerate world quite often in the early days if i am planning to play on it for a long time, i don't want to reveal map and see where everything is as it would ruin my experience, so i just waste 10s of days every time before Wanda release, now i just play her and don't have to care about world generation nearly as much.

[Rafi.]

5 hours ago, loopuleasa said:

that kills the wanda

Of course it seems harsh, but with another watch or a way to make this atleast feels good, it could be great, she has everything in her kit, utility, I-frames, damage and a more than okay survivability against bosses.

I don't have any problems with her being without any doubt the best late game character, but the only part of the game where she is "weaker" than other characters that are absolute early game powerhouse such as Wortox or Wendy is during the first 5 days where you don't have some watches such as the backstep watch and the alarming clock.

After that, she's just absurdely powerful, and that right away. She needs something that slow her progress down in a challenging way or atleast not makes you feel like an almighty god right after making the alarming clock during the first autumn. Without a well polished concept, my idea stinks, but it could definitively be great.

[00petar00]

30 minutes ago, Rafi. said:

Of course it seems harsh, but with another watch or a way to make this atleast feels good, it could be great, she has everything in her kit, utility, I-frames, damage and a more than okay survivability against bosses.

I don't have any problems with her being without any doubt the best late game character, but the only part of the game where she is "weaker" than other characters that are absolute early game powerhouse such as Wortox or Wendy is during the first 5 days where you don't have some watches such as the backstep watch and the alarming clock.

After that, she's just absurdely powerful, and that right away. She needs something that slow her progress down in a challenging way or atleast not makes you feel like an almighty god right after making the alarming clock during the first autumn. Without a well polished concept, my idea stinks, but it could definitively be great.

Maybe try doing a boss run with Wanda without using any armor and see how it is, she would literally be the worst character you can pick for fighting as no one plays perfectly all the time and even if you do, the game will have issues like the recent F auto attack bugs and there is also lag depending on the server.

Every character needs some room to tank a few hits from the boss if they are using armor with highest protection, the same should be for Wanda while being at old age at least she should survive 1 hit.

She would not be a late game powerhouse if she couldn't tank any hits, no one would play her because when you are in late game and if you are megabasing, you aren't going to have perfect attention like you would at the first 100 days, if she can't wear armor, you will never feel safe playing her.

Also i am really wondering what are your thoughts on Wolfgang, since he can pretty much kill all bosses at similar speed as her, he just doesn't have her utility that is made for late game and iframes while he stays healthy and is much safer choice.

[GelatinousCube]

4 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

It just feels like lazy deserter needs to be rebalanced and to allow solo travel because i don't really want to be forced to play Wanda or go back to what i did before, explore the world and see if it is worthwhile to play on it for thousands of days, if wormholes are well placed, if the biomes are how i want them to be, setpieces and so on and if i don't like it, i wasted tens of days and have to regenerate and try again.

totally agree and would love for this to be the case, I would definitely dislike her a lot less if we had ways to similarly replicate her teleporting abilities. Not so much that it completely steps on her toes but some sort of buff/mechanic to that overall concept for others. 

I literally use Lazy Deserters as insanity machines and nothing more as I predominantly play solo. It's sad and I'd love to use them for their intended purpose but alas I cannot. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

Yeah and none of them are as strong as she is.

Mid/late game no one really compares to her imo.

her desing and lore is suppose to be like that lmao. Saying "pay2win" when characters like wigfrid actually makes you "win" without any knowledge or experience is a non sense

imagine a glass cannon (sure, we can argue how tanky she can be for players that plays tbis game in loop) with such background lore (she literally experience fighting CC and Fw many times) and also an investment from klei to win money being underwhelming and weaker than the rest of the roster... gladly workers at klei are smarter than that

7 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

 

edit. connection went bannanas

[BonesJrOfficial]

I voted for a full rework and she needs an interesting downside. This granny is busted for any long term world or experienced player.

[GelatinousCube]

31 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

her desing and lore is suppose to be like that lmao. Saying "pay2win" when characters like wigfrid actually makes you "win" without any knowledge or experience is a non sense

imagine a glass cannon (sure, we can argue how tanky she can be for players that plays tbis game in loop) with such background lore (she literally experience fighting CC and Fw many times) and also an investment from klei to win money being underwhelming and weaker than the rest of the roster... gladly workers at klei are smarter than that

Sigh.... 

Well to me personally what you're saying is nonsense. I don't see how her design and lore in any way shape or form make it clear shes meant to be stronger than anyone else. She broke her timeline and messes with time and watches and blah blah, shes also a side character to the max and has little to no impact upon the overall storyline and lore. She's not connected to any other character and has no real relevance story or plot wise. In what way does this relate to her being an absolute powerhouse? 

Also when did I say she should be weaker than the rest of the roster? The vast majority (whether they want her changed or not and whether they like her design or not) agree that she is the strongest character once set up. This is pretty commonly accepted at this point. I want her balanced to be more in line with everyone else not made weaker than others. I have never stated that I want her to be weaker than others or a lower tier character. 

She is a paid character rather than free (yes I know you can easily amass spools and get her for free but the point is still somewhat valid and remains) and is hands down as long as you have some skill with the game MILES better than anyone else mid-late game. 

Don't know why you keep bringing Wigfrid up, yeah you can autopilot with her once you're used to her diet and can facetank most threats. Wolfgang is also great at combat. You know what neither of them can do though? Teleport around the entire map at will negating and minimalising several KEY aspects of the game in the process. Skip sailing to pearl/lunar, teleport to Pseudoscience whenever you want avoiding a real trip to the ruins, teleport to any boss or area you need specific resources from whenever you want. Wig and Wolf also don't have a range of other random abilities across the board helping with a variety of different things, Wolf has some helpful very minor additional abilities but nothing as helpful as Wandas. 

You can teleport around the map at will with no cost other than inital setup almost completly eliminating any need for speed boosts, making time and inventory management FAR easier and in general just trivialising many aspects of the game. Shes also a strong combat character (the other combat characters especially Wig have very little outside of their combat perks whereas Wanda has strong combat perks AS WELL as plenty of others) on top of that, has no health penalties from dying, has her own ressurection mechanic, has a unique refuelable weapon that hits like a truck, has benefits to using dark magic items, has perks from using staffs, has the backstep watch stealing one of Wortox's unique abilities. Her downsides are minimal and all the frail old lady minor downsides can simply be completely eliminated by just making yourself Young and doing whatever crafting, hammering etc you want then simply getting old again for combat or whatever.

You aren't going to change my mind in any way so there is no point going back and forth. She needs to be brought down a peg to be balanced with the rest of the cast if balance is something Klei care about and they clearly do given both Wolfgang and WX were nerfed. Yeah WX was made far more interesting and varied and doesn't rely on a wickerbottom being around anymore so is more Solo friendly (then again you could always self charge with ease if you really wanted to) but he is 100% without a doubt weaker. He could do most of what he can now (minus the niche not very powerful in the first place effects like chorusbox or thorns damage effects) all at once, have beasty stats and didn't melt in the rain like the Wicked Witch. 

You can think shes fine as is and I can think that shes way too strong, invalidates the balancing Klei are trying to achieve and somewhat breaks the game once she is set up. Lets just agree to disagree and not passive aggressively exchange comments. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

 

i agree that she is busted i dont agree that she is pay to win in a game that there is no victory and with braindead playstyle free characters and less if winning means for you teleportation lel

wortox sould jump is as similar to her watch as a goat to a table

check her quotes, she is suppose to be experience and strong but her weapon and ammount of hp is a non sense

[GelatinousCube]

45 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i agree that she is busted i dont agree that she is pay to win in a game that there is no victory and with braindead playstyle free characters and less if winning means for you teleportation lel

wortox sould hope are as similar to her watch as a goat to a table

check her quotes, she is suppose to be experience and strong but her weapon and ammount of hp is a non sense

Ok, seems like we actually agree more than disagree at the end of the day! She is definitely busted. 

You're right that pay to win isn't a great way to describe her at all considering there is no real victory or "winning" and it isnt competitive. I saw others using it and jumped on the bandwagon but on reflection it doesn't really work in this situation.

Experience ≠ Power but I get where you're coming from. Agree that her weapon is nonsense, far too strong. 

[Rafi.]

8 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Maybe try doing a boss run with Wanda without using any armor and see how it is, she would literally be the worst character you can pick for fighting as no one plays perfectly all the time and even if you do, the game will have issues like the recent F auto attack bugs and there is also lag depending on the server.

Every character needs some room to tank a few hits from the boss if they are using armor with highest protection, the same should be for Wanda while being at old age at least she should survive 1 hit.

She would not be a late game powerhouse if she couldn't tank any hits, no one would play her because when you are in late game and if you are megabasing, you aren't going to have perfect attention like you would at the first 100 days, if she can't wear armor, you will never feel safe playing her.

Also i am really wondering what are your thoughts on Wolfgang, since he can pretty much kill all bosses at similar speed as her, he just doesn't have her utility that is made for late game and iframes while he stays healthy and is much safer choice.

I don't think you should count bugs as a way to balance anything at all. They're not meant to be here in the first place, I'm pretty sure I'm able to do every boss without getting hit, the most difficult part would be more for things with alot of mobs such as hound attacks, splumonkeys and loads of nightmare creatures in the ruins. And lag ruins absolutely anything when it comes to playing, most of the time I play with close friends, but a server with 120 ping isn't unplayable, and it's the ping I have while i'm in Europe when I join US servers. If some players play with terrible connection I'm really sorry for them but there's a limit where the balancing of the game should consider lag.

And you're right about that, everyone needs to be able to tank atleast a hit, which would be hard for old Wanda without any armor since she basically have 35 hp, but, as I said, I don't want that downside thrown just like this, it needs something to feels right, a new watch that could offer a shield similar to the one of the Thulecite crown maybe ? Where a part of your sanity is used to tank hits ? But right now, Wanda is very little risk for absolutely awesome reward even very early on.

During late game, when you have access to multiple bone armors, I don't think that there's any problem doing boss fights without any classic damage absorption (If such a downside was in game, the bone armor and thulecite crown shield should still be usable, they are not usual means of damage absorption very early on) , the most problematic one would be the Bee Queen probably and even here, she's kitable, even without the backstep watch.

Wolfgang right now is pretty great, very good for bosses, but his other perks aren't as helpful as Wanda's one. While Wolfgang being able to chug pierogis is way safer, Wanda still have some tricks to avoid damage, not only I-frames if you use an ageless watch after taking a fatal hit, if you didn't reached 80 years old, the damages will be canceled,while it could be very hard to do during fight with multiple enemies such as Bee Queen's one. It's something still very doable with most of the boss fights. (I don't think that should be removed, I love how that works but most people only see the ageless watch as a healing item while it can delete damage too.)

Wanda having the best utility in the game isn't my problem, it's the combination of having an absurd survivability, damage output and utility combined, and that, very early one, of course she shines at late, but she is still a powerhouse during early game. I have multiple ideas of downsides, I don't want all of them to be applied if I could choose to, I love Wanda and I don't want her to be absolutely trash to play, but a character that have an awesome skill ceiling as her should have a very high skill floor too.

[00petar00]

5 hours ago, Rafi. said:

I don't think you should count bugs as a way to balance anything at all. They're not meant to be here in the first place, I'm pretty sure I'm able to do every boss without getting hit, the most difficult part would be more for things with alot of mobs such as hound attacks, splumonkeys and loads of nightmare creatures in the ruins. And lag ruins absolutely anything when it comes to playing, most of the time I play with close friends, but a server with 120 ping isn't unplayable, and it's the ping I have while i'm in Europe when I join US servers. If some players play with terrible connection I'm really sorry for them but there's a limit where the balancing of the game should consider lag.

I don't believe that you could really do a full boss run without taking 1 hit, to me it is never worth focusing that much on not taking damage, i can pretty often kill some bosses like dragonfly without taking any hits but there is not much difference in taking 2-3 hits or not if you can just survive 1 hit and heal which every other character is able to do.

Ping and bugs obviously shouldn't be the main reason why some changes happen but you can't just ignore this, also i am sure majority of the players aren't focused so much over the course of many hours of playing, you will have a moment when you may die if you don't have any armor just because you didn't look at your screen at the right time. 

5 hours ago, Rafi. said:

And you're right about that, everyone needs to be able to tank atleast a hit, which would be hard for old Wanda without any armor since she basically have 35 hp, but, as I said, I don't want that downside thrown just like this, it needs something to feels right, a new watch that could offer a shield similar to the one of the Thulecite crown maybe ? Where a part of your sanity is used to tank hits ? But right now, Wanda is very little risk for absolutely awesome reward even very early on.

Her downside is one of the most difficult to deal with in the game, while she has very strong abilities that make her stand out even with such a downside, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I don't think that she needs any downside or new watches, if she needed a nerf as much as people say, just remove second chance watch and maybe backstep watch, while i use it pretty often against bosses i wear night armor so i can take some damage.

5 hours ago, Rafi. said:

During late game, when you have access to multiple bone armors, I don't think that there's any problem doing boss fights without any classic damage absorption (If such a downside was in game, the bone armor and thulecite crown shield should still be usable, they are not usual means of damage absorption very early on) , the most problematic one would be the Bee Queen probably and even here, she's kitable, even without the backstep watch.

She is already very greedy when it comes to MacTusks, now if she also needed a few bone armors, how good would she be in multiplayer? When would she even be able to get everything she needs to be strong in a 6-10 player server? DST is made for multiplayer, she shouldn't require bone armors to be effective when she already needs so many tusks for backtrek watches.

If she couldn't use armor she would be one of the worst characters even if you gave her a clock like thulecite crown, unless it was automatic it wouldn't matter and you'd also need more time pieces to start with to be able to craft it, if you join a server late and go to ruins and see there is no thulecite left, what do you do?

5 hours ago, Rafi. said:

Wolfgang right now is pretty great, very good for bosses, but his other perks aren't as helpful as Wanda's one. While Wolfgang being able to chug pierogis is way safer, Wanda still have some tricks to avoid damage, not only I-frames if you use an ageless watch after taking a fatal hit, if you didn't reached 80 years old, the damages will be canceled,while it could be very hard to do during fight with multiple enemies such as Bee Queen's one. It's something still very doable with most of the boss fights. (I don't think that should be removed, I love how that works but most people only see the ageless watch as a healing item while it can delete damage too.)

That is so very situational,i've used it quite a few times over the course of like hundreds of hours i played Wanda but it isn't as useful as much as you think. If you are in a fight, you usually wouldn't have time to use ageless watch to save yourself from the damage that you would take.

Worth noting that this would be useless if you couldn't use armor since you would take so much damage from bosses that using ageless watch to cancel some of the damage wouldn't matter as it wouldn't be enough.

Also why are you talking as if dying matters in this game? With how situational this is, it doesn't matter at all, it is just a nice bonus thing that feels really good when you manage to pull it off in a boss fight but life giving amulets exist and if you are careful you can play solo and never lose your world. I easily amass over 40 red gems on her, killing dragonfly on respawn, clearing ruins, i can revive as much as i want.

When it comes to Wolfgang and Wanda, i agree that Wanda is in a better spot because of her utility, but you really don't have many reasons to pick her to start over him, he can pretty much do the same when it comes to bosses and you can just swap to Wanda later while you can feel safe and use the full power of Wolfgang before you amass time pieces. 

5 hours ago, Rafi. said:

Wanda having the best utility in the game isn't my problem, it's the combination of having an absurd survivability, damage output and utility combined, and that, very early one, of course she shines at late, but she is still a powerhouse during early game. I have multiple ideas of downsides, I don't want all of them to be applied if I could choose to, I love Wanda and I don't want her to be absolutely trash to play, but a character that have an awesome skill ceiling as her should have a very high skill floor too.

It seems to me that you don't realize maybe because you are good at the game but many players struggle playing Wanda and i am not just talking about new players. I would include myself here when i started playing her at release, i kept dying so much because i wasn't used to having such low health all the time, since i always stay old on her for damage. Also her health ticking down is quite annoying to deal with, i died a lot to this since release.

She already has a very high skill floor to majority of the players, only like 0.1% of Wanda players can use her to full potential.

You get better over time but you can't really downplay her downsides so much just because people over time manage to overcome them.

Absurd utility only comes in after a few ingame years or even longer depending on how many players you have on the server.

She doesn't need any nerfs if only the best players can show her stength.

[chincer]

wanda brings a particular issue when you play her, after if you play someone else you start to miss the alarming clock reliable damage, and the high convenience of her backtrek to the point you start to question if the perks of other characters are matching the power

this is particularly true when i play two of my other favorites, wortox and walter, sure walter have the slingshot, but it is atrocious compare to the whip, sure wortox have that soul hop but it is nothing that impactful, and the rest of their perks aren't even close.

other characters should feel as impactful and cohesive as wanda

[Cheggf]

16 hours ago, Rafi. said:

Of course it seems harsh, but with another watch or a way to make this atleast feels good, it could be great, she has everything in her kit, utility, I-frames, damage and a more than okay survivability against bosses.

I don't have any problems with her being without any doubt the best late game character, but the only part of the game where she is "weaker" than other characters that are absolute early game powerhouse such as Wortox or Wendy is during the first 5 days where you don't have some watches such as the backstep watch and the alarming clock.

After that, she's just absurdely powerful, and that right away. She needs something that slow her progress down in a challenging way or atleast not makes you feel like an almighty god right after making the alarming clock during the first autumn. Without a well polished concept, my idea stinks, but it could definitively be great.

Wanda is a downgrade to Wolfgang until you have several spare tusks which can take many years in multiplayer and\or single tusk worlds.

[Copyafriend]

Im gonna be real, anyone who says her age is a downside is full of ****. The moment you get a second ageless clock you regenerate health faster than wx does with a beanbooster(lmao) circuit. With only a few she heals like she has a compost wrap active at all times. Its not great healing at first, but she CAN just ******* dodge attacks. Which means she could easily just walk up on dragonfly with a single helmet and win without being a master of dragonflies admittedly difficult dodging pattern. The dodge is a LOT easier and faster than kiting. That along with her unique UNBREAKABLE REFUELABLE weapon that gives you extra attack range and comparable damage to a darksword. Just all that puts her in s tier imho. Everyone wants to talk about the teleportation. Its fine to me, expensive and powerful. But shes just so CONVENIENT. Like she could live off raw monster meat and just use her clocks to heal the damage and her other clock ro fight off the nightmare monsters while asleep by holding f. Then after collecting a stack of nightmare fuel she can go on a boss rush after only preppint armor because her healint and weapon is already solved.

 

if you cant tell, i think shes a little too strong. I dont know what to do about it, but something probably should be done.

[Echsrick]

honestly, i think wanda realy dit not needed any sort of damage or combat perks at all, there could have been many more interesting ideas that could have been used to be some sort of souport, like, a watch that when used on an ice box, can freshen the food a bit, a watch that freezes time for hostile creatures in a range, wich makes them immune to take damage, a watch that could work like the greenstaff, so much could have been done, instead we get a rather boring combat perk

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Im gonna be real, anyone who says her age is a downside is full of ****.

let me introduce you the potatoe+tomatoes combo

[Copyafriend]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

let me introduce you the potatoe+tomatoes combo

I am very familiar with it. I wouldnt go as far as to say that wandas aging mechanic is 100% an upside, but its certainly not a downside either. It just is.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

I am very familiar with it. I wouldnt go as far as to say that wandas aging mechanic is 100% an upside, but its certainly not a downside either. It just is.

now think about wanda from a player that didnt played the game during years(plus guides) point of view

im all for nerfing her hp and her AC but is a downside in many ways other thing is that isnt impactful enough for people that play a lot (and still there are not visial proofs of that)

[Rafi.]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

Wanda is a downgrade to Wolfgang until you have several spare tusks which can take many years in multiplayer and\or single tusk worlds.

That's just not true, before having the alarming clock you're right, but after that, it's just a false claim, she has very easy access to the backstep watch and second chance watch in addition to the alarming clock.

[00petar00]

24 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Im gonna be real, anyone who says her age is a downside is full of ****. The moment you get a second ageless clock you regenerate health faster than wx does with a beanbooster(lmao) circuit. With only a few she heals like she has a compost wrap active at all times. Its not great healing at first, but she CAN just ******* dodge attacks. Which means she could easily just walk up on dragonfly with a single helmet and win without being a master of dragonflies admittedly difficult dodging pattern. The dodge is a LOT easier and faster than kiting. That along with her unique UNBREAKABLE REFUELABLE weapon that gives you extra attack range and comparable damage to a darksword. Just all that puts her in s tier imho. Everyone wants to talk about the teleportation. Its fine to me, expensive and powerful. But shes just so CONVENIENT. Like she could live off raw monster meat and just use her clocks to heal the damage and her other clock ro fight off the nightmare monsters while asleep by holding f. Then after collecting a stack of nightmare fuel she can go on a boss rush after only preppint armor because her healint and weapon is already solved.

 

if you cant tell, i think shes a little too strong. I dont know what to do about it, but something probably should be done.

Her age and her healing are a downside, yes you can get more clocks and you need more inventory space for them too, also you don't have that many at start and you will probably focus on alarming clock and getting thulecite to make backstep watch, you won't be getting another ageless watch before you get the rest of what you need, while this can be done quite fast and before first winter, it still doesn't mean that her age and healing aren't a downside because she will always need to be old to deal the most damage and she will lose inventory space.

Healing isn't really difficult, to me it just seems like you don't know how to efficiently heal and think that ageless watch is broken for that reason while its pretty much easier on every other character that is able to heal at any time and have much more health and safety.

Wolfgang matches her speed when it comes to boss runs as you can watch speedruns on youtube and before she is able to amass backtrek watches she isn't faster which could take ingame years.

I can agree that she is one of the strongest characters and has great utility but she only seems broken to people that can't manage the basics when it comes to gathering resources like healing food,armor and weapons.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 minutes ago, Rafi. said:

That's just not true, before having the alarming clock you're right, but after that, it's just a false claim, she has very easy access to the backstep watch and second chance watch in addition to the alarming clock.

but wolf has x2 damage since day 1 with 200 hp and able to careless fight bosses while healing with butterflies

all people bring the backstep watch to the table but is only useful for a couple of fights (which is a logical tool for a character that ""cant tank"" (we all know she can but the desing is that)) and only if you time it well, regular kitting is way better

[Copyafriend]

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

Her age and her healing are a downside, yes you can get more clocks and you need more inventory space for them too, also you don't have that many at start and you will probably focus on alarming clock and getting thulecite to make backstep watch, you won't be getting another ageless watch before you get the rest of what you need, while this can be done quite fast and before first winter, it still doesn't mean that her age and healing aren't a downside because she will always need to be old to deal the most damage and she will lose inventory space.

Healing isn't really difficult, to me it just seems like you don't know how to efficiently heal and think that ageless watch is broken for that reason while its pretty much easier on every other character that is able to heal at any time and have much more health and safety.

Wolfgang matches her speed when it comes to boss runs as you can watch speedruns on youtube and before she is able to amass backtrek watches she isn't faster which could take ingame years.

I can agree that she is one of the strongest characters and has great utility but she only seems broken to people that can't manage the basics when it comes to gathering resources like healing food,armor and weapons.

“you’re not good enough so you dont realise how not that good she is” 

ah yeah cool you showed me. Talked real condescendingly, didnt address my points in a meaningful way. A real “destroyed with facts and logic” moment

okay to start with. Healing does take time to gather, even with very effective methods like perogis, it’s resources you dont have to gather at all. As a result, as much of a potential downside for really difficult bossfights it could be, it removes any and all need to gather healing. Which IS a major upside.

also, yes. If the downside can be turned off by the first winter, it doesnt really exist. Its not dangerous to get a bunch of thulecite fragments from the ancient archives, nor is it all that time consuming. Honestly the red gems are harder and they can come from a graveyard. Two is also plenty for day to day use, dismante them or put them in a chest, your inability to manage your inventory doesnt make it a downside. And if you’re really worried, just dont go gather thulecite, three timeless and a backstep is plenty for most uses, just get a hambat like a normal character. 

 

finally, the reason i specified it wasnt a downside, is it is mechanically changed, but comes with as many upsides as downsides. Anything not immediately lethal is completely free to recover from, even at one watch, it will just take time. The only bosses i can think of that can need  a large amount of healing in one burst, which isnt just trivialized by the backstep watch is the celestial champion, and the bee queen. Admittedly im not sure what the solution is for the bee queen, but i know that at the very least you dont have to hug the celestial champion like on other characters, so at least you have a head start. 
 

I never claimed healing was difficult, but not needing to worry about it completely is still pretty big.

wolfgang close to tying with her on speedruns is a point in MY favor btw. If their numbers are anywhere similar then the question comes up “why is she as good as wolfgang with twice as many positives” 

Simultaneously.

and this is an important bit, try to pay attention this time. She isnt broken, or “op”.

I said

1 hour ago, Copyafriend said:

shes a little too strong.

A little. Knock that damage down to 50% more and im fine. I dont mind strong characters, but shes the best by a decent margin with a lot of utility and VERY strong combat power. Being a glass cannon is cool, but shes got wickerbottom level utility, so she shouldn’t be one of the  best combat characters.

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, Rafi. said:

That's just not true, before having the alarming clock you're right, but after that, it's just a false claim, she has very easy access to the backstep watch and second chance watch in addition to the alarming clock.

Saving a few living logs here and there isn't exactly amazing. It's also forcing you to farm nmf for your weapon while wolf can use whatever he wants.