Achievement Hunter Crisis

[Chesmu]

This is a topic I've discussed recently, that deseres its own topic due to importance of it.

Who is asking for nerfs, abundance and easy play?

Many players asked and still ask to make this game more "Beginner Friendly", or in other words to make it hold hands until players walks, or in gamer language to "Nerf" the game; This topic is about who are these players and why they should not ask for nerfs. Also a heads-up for developers, since they've been helping the surviors too much.

This game is already very easy to survive after discovering the "Darkness Kills" rule. All you have to do is collect Flints, Grass, Twigs, Rocks and Gold, which are all found on surface world, are the common most seen items, and the Torch or light sources are made cheap. The remaining structures and bosses are all optional other than Tools, Alchemy Engine and a Thermal Stone after quite a time in the server, but some mistake those as achievements, that if they can't make such item or unlock a certain tab, or kill a certain boss, then the game is difficult!

That's where the game gets nerfed again and again, while it was actually piece of cake from the beggining! What is being asked is not about survival, but about having the ability to kill every single boss faster than the other famous individual, or to "Rush" them, which I believe is made difficult on purpose to keep the game almost never-ending with more to discover, and lenghty; That is done rightfully so, since it is not affecting mandatory survival of the character in any way, and most of the items aqquired from these additional and side-quest difficulties are used in decorations and quality of life items like Lazy Explorer.

So let's be careful not to lose the charm of the game, its discovery options and lenghty side-adventures only to able a few to "finish" the game, meaning they done anything and killed every boss, so they can move to playing and finishing next game.This is an achievement hunter crisis even in a game with no achievements, that constantly asks for nerfs.

Thanks for readin.

[Faintly Macabre]

Just to repeat myself from elsewhere

Quote

No meaningful movement of Achievement Hunters have ever wanted games nerfed just to get their trophies faster and no developer with any integrity has ever done so, hahahaha. Wow. Good grief.

This is one of the weirdest bogeymen I've ever seen.

[Mike23Ua]

I’m sorry but I don’t understand the question.. can I use a lifeline or call a friend?

Seriously.. Im not understanding what your trying to say here, game too easy? Well err I guess maybe??

I mean the Shipwrecked & Hamlet DLCs drastically upped the difficulty in various methods (such as having creatures steal things, or pangolden being able to lick up entire ponds) DST: outside of the newer content added in RoT… has remained largely the same.

I think it’s time Klei changed that.. I’d like to for example be wandering through the desert and while on this biome enemy mobs can spawn from underneath the sand from anywhere within the biome.. if your on this turf: Creatures can spawn from it.

Unfortunately… & for whatever reason: Biomes continue to be this predictable set piece of only X spawns here from Y location..

And I’m tired of it, I love the Dont starve franchise.. but after getting jumped by scorpions/snakes coming out of the bushes or trees I’m trying to harvest in SW/Hamlet- DST just feels “behind” when it comes to advancements in technology and dangers..

I was hoping Klei would eventually pump out some meaty content updates, maybe even perhaps redesign some existing biomes.. just give the game a 2023 facelift.

But unfortunately I’ve yet to see that happen.

And currently- about the only problem you will consistently need to deal with besides weather, or bosses- Is hound waves.

I vote for 2023/2024 to be the year of change.

I want to be able to roam around with my friends while being challenged by something that ISNT an optional raid boss.

The Ocean Content of DST is a somewhat decent example of this- RNG encounters with RockJaw sharks.. now I just need more content like that.

[jan Mele]

How is being able to complete pearl's quest before summer broken

2 hours ago, Chesmu said:

So let's be careful not to lose the charm of the game, its discovery options and lenghty side-adventures only to able a few to "finish" the game, meaning they done anything and killed every boss, so they can move to playing and finishing next game.

This is a sandbox game, yk

[Chesmu]

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I’m sorry but I don’t understand the question.. can I use a lifeline or call a friend?

Seriously.. Im not understanding what your trying to say here, game too easy? Well err I guess maybe??

I mean the Shipwrecked & Hamlet DLCs drastically upped the difficulty in various methods (such as having creatures steal things, or pangolden being able to lick up entire ponds) DST: outside of the newer content added in RoT… has remained largely the same.

I think it’s time Klei changed that.. I’d like to for example be wandering through the desert and while on this biome enemy mobs can spawn from underneath the sand from anywhere within the biome.. if your on this turf: Creatures can spawn from it.

Unfortunately… & for whatever reason: Biomes continue to be this predictable set piece of only X spawns here from Y location..

And I’m tired of it, I love the Dont starve franchise.. but after getting jumped by scorpions/snakes coming out of the bushes or trees I’m trying to harvest in SW/Hamlet- DST just feels “behind” when it comes to advancements in technology and dangers..

I was hoping Klei would eventually pump out some meaty content updates, maybe even perhaps redesign some existing biomes.. just give the game a 2023 facelift.

But unfortunately I’ve yet to see that happen.

And currently- about the only problem you will consistently need to deal with besides weather, or bosses- Is hound waves.

I vote for 2023/2024 to be the year of change.

I want to be able to roam around with my friends while being challenged by something that ISNT an optional raid boss.

The Ocean Content of DST is a somewhat decent example of this- RNG encounters with RockJaw sharks.. now I just need more content like that.

Thanks, that is also what I'm saying; I'm explaining why players sometimes ask for nerfs at Forums and why developers should make the game more challenging, vague, non-explaining and non-mainstream (without any fancy tutorials in future), instead of giving survivors starting items and such to help them.

4 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Just to repeat myself from elsewhere

This is one of the weirdest bogeymen I've ever seen.

I'm not sure if Achievement hunters have a "Movement" or a "Club" membership and ID cards; this is about the Achievement Hunter mindset, which can be adopted by any player at any time and dropped, even if they don't declare themselves CEO of this hunthing club.

[Cheggf]

What do achievements have to do with this?

[Guille6785]

what

[Capybara007]

This is one of the threads ever

[Faintly Macabre]

5 hours ago, Chesmu said:

I'm not sure if Achievement hunters have a "Movement" or a "Club" membership and ID cards; this is about the Achievement Hunter mindset, which can be adopted by any player at any time and dropped, even if they don't declare themselves CEO of this hunthing club.

Once again to crosspost a little

Quote

Achievement Hunter is literally the name of a Youtube channel with 1.5m subscribers, with content revolving around the acquisition of various video games' meta achievements. There are lots of websites devoted to sharing tips and tricks and showing off your exploits in the world of achievement metagaming. To act like there are no significant collectives of them is silly; almost as silly as thinking they have ever, ever had any effect on the balance of any noteworthy game. This is pure (and utterly bizarre) paranoia. No game has ever been ruined for the sake of catering to people who want to play it, get trophies, and leave.

 

[00petar00]

When i say DST should be easier for new players, i don't really mean that game overall should be easier, just that it could guide new players better to understanding how to survive, so many players quit because they try to play the game how it is intended, if you die and can't revive world is deleted and new players don't know the usefulness of life giving amulet and how to easily obtain it.

This is actually my biggest issue, new players shouldn't need to read online to find out how important crockpot is and what the most useful recipes are, its not rocket science being able to cook meatballs.

I remember fondly on my experiences when i didn't know anything and was dying and slowly discovering and learning how to survive but not everyone can do that and i also feel like if i didn't read wiki and use other sources of information after learning how to survive as long as i want, i would probably not have continued playing or took a long break before coming back.

Why can so many people on the forums be against new players being able to obtain some information easier in the game while they read all the patch notes and don't discover anything on their own now? 

Why do they use rollback and spawn items to practice new content/bosses before they do a normal run while they expect a new player to just die to deerclops or dragonfly and lose the save?

I understand that not everyone would do that and complain when new players use wiki but there are people like that.

[LiamAshvinn001]

11 hours ago, Chesmu said:

This is a topic I've discussed recently, that deseres its own topic due to importance of it.

Who is asking for nerfs, abundance and easy play?

Many players asked and still ask to make this game more "Beginner Friendly", or in other words to make it hold hands until players walks, or in gamer language to "Nerf" the game; This topic is about who are these players and why they should not ask for nerfs. Also a heads-up for developers, since they've been helping the surviors too much.

This game is already very easy to survive after discovering the "Darkness Kills" rule. All you have to do is collect Flints, Grass, Twigs, Rocks and Gold, which are all found on surface world, are the common most seen items, and the Torch or light sources are made cheap. The remaining structures and bosses are all optional other than Tools, Alchemy Engine and a Thermal Stone after quite a time in the server, but some mistake those as achievements, that if they can't make such item or unlock a certain tab, or kill a certain boss, then the game is difficult!

That's where the game gets nerfed again and again, while it was actually piece of cake from the beggining! What is being asked is not about survival, but about having the ability to kill every single boss faster than the other famous individual, or to "Rush" them, which I believe is made difficult on purpose to keep the game almost never-ending with more to discover, and lenghty; That is done rightfully so, since it is not affecting mandatory survival of the character in any way, and most of the items aqquired from these additional and side-quest difficulties are used in decorations and quality of life items like Lazy Explorer.

So let's be careful not to lose the charm of the game, its discovery options and lenghty side-adventures only to able a few to "finish" the game, meaning they done anything and killed every boss, so they can move to playing and finishing next game.This is an achievement hunter crisis even in a game with no achievements, that constantly asks for nerfs.

Thanks for readin.

The game has become I would say too easy. I mean if people cant survive winter theyre not surviving an uncompromising survival game. I would be so happy if they start making the game harder, more seasonal hazards, maybe more giants. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

10 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

I remember fondly on my experiences when i didn't know anything and was dying and slowly discovering and learning how to survive but not everyone can do that

for that ds franchise are niche games... but is true that some stuff like cooking recipes or fw quests shouldn't be that obscure

[jan Mele]

59 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

for that ds franchise are niche games... but is true that some stuff like cooking recipes or fw quests shouldn't be that obscure

It's certainly not a crowd pleaser, but I wouldn't say it's niche (especially DST)

just look at the statistics on steam

[Chesmu]

11 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

When i say DST should be easier for new players, i don't really mean that game overall should be easier, just that it could guide new players better to understanding how to survive, so many players quit because they try to play the game how it is intended, if you die and can't revive world is deleted and new players don't know the usefulness of life giving amulet and how to easily obtain it.

This is actually my biggest issue, new players shouldn't need to read online to find out how important crockpot is and what the most useful recipes are, its not rocket science being able to cook meatballs.

I remember fondly on my experiences when i didn't know anything and was dying and slowly discovering and learning how to survive but not everyone can do that and i also feel like if i didn't read wiki and use other sources of information after learning how to survive as long as i want, i would probably not have continued playing or took a long break before coming back.

Why can so many people on the forums be against new players being able to obtain some information easier in the game while they read all the patch notes and don't discover anything on their own now? 

Why do they use rollback and spawn items to practice new content/bosses before they do a normal run while they expect a new player to just die to deerclops or dragonfly and lose the save?

I understand that not everyone would do that and complain when new players use wiki but there are people like that.

The reason is exactly the crisis I mentioned; Why would a new player want to never die and master the game since start? unless they are adopting the Achievement Hunter mindset to "Beat" the game soon and experience it all as fast as possible.

The lack of motive to give in to the experience is probably what causes boredom in face of defeat. If one enjoys discovering new things, which includes new ways to die, to not die and also items and functions, they will never want to run out of things to discover, therefore they will intentionally avoid reading wiki, instead of having to read it.
 

However, what is the point of the game if it doesn't kill your character all the time? if you aquire every important item and structure and be immune to majority of mobs the moment you start, what is there to do then other than decoration building and idle basing? The fun of the game is discovering the new dangers and constant dying of your characters can actually be a matter of humor when playing online with friends. Games don't have to hold your hand, they are not your friends, but mostly challenges and adventures, and both of those are difficult.

So if one plays this game with achievement hunter mindset, wanting to finish the game or "rush" it or don't die, they will have many problem enjoying themselves, and also making nerf suggestions to the game.

12 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Achievement Hunter is literally the name of a Youtube channel with 1.5m subscribers

There is no problem with that, as that Youtube channel and subscribes of it are currently adopting the achievement hunter mindset, which they can drop at any time. It will also be naive to assume all players with said mindset have to subscribe to a particular service to be identified as such, or that they are all limited to this channel alone.

[xDarkSoul18x]

Yeah I get what you're saying. I have people on my list that are just hunters. Its how they enjoy gaming and for a lot of games if you have all the achievements there is a very good chance you already seen all the content the game has to offer. With the load of games out now I think a lot of people look at it like a sign of relief that they're done and can get on to other games lol. Idk. I have a lot of achievements and trophies including for this game but I still play because I enjoy it. Currently at around 68 Days played and thats just for DTS console, not shipwrecked  or PC.

[jan Mele]

1 minute ago, Chesmu said:

However, what is the point of the game if it doesn't kill your character all the time? if you aquire every important item and structure and be immune to majority of mobs the moment you start, what is there to do then other than decoration building and idle basing? The fun of the game is discovering the new dangers and constant dying of your characters can actually be a matter of humor when playing online with friends. Games don't have to hold your hand, they are not your friends, but mostly challenges and adventures, and both of those are difficult.

1 It's a sandbox game

2 If you want more challenge, then try to do things on a time limit

3 It's not an achievement thing, it's trying to play as much games as possible, engaging in games for no reason other doing so. I doubt people like that would invested enough to suggest a change or talk about the game standalone in general.

[Chesmu]

16 hours ago, Cheggf said:

What do achievements have to do with this?

Not the literal achievement ofcrouse, we don't have them for DST.

It's about picking a goal and trying to achieve it, which in this game is about couple of things like defeating all bosses in such time and condition, not dying while rushing and unlimited similar things. Some players may skip the fun and push it to reach these, when failed, they may suggest nerfs to the game. That is the topic.

11 minutes ago, jan Mele said:

1 It's a sandbox game

2 If you want more challenge, then try to do things on a time limit

3 It's not an achievement thing, it's trying to play as much games as possible, engaging in games for no reason other doing so. I doubt people like that would invested enough to suggest a change or talk about the game standalone in general.

It is originally an adventure game, even if the story barely moves forward in multiplayer, there are still many mysteries and lore hidden, new lore is progressing but we get that as new content and in animated shorts, which are directly related to the game. Unlike many sandbox games that all you have are similar blocks to put above eachother, this has much unique content and functions to discover even after thousands of hours you play. Even Earth we live in is a sandbox, just bigger with more to discover all the time.

I may want more challenges, but I don't at the moment; This is about keeping the challenges, discovery options and lenghtly mastering time we already have.

A similar mindset to achievement hunting is game hunting yes, but they are two different things; Game hunters barely do suggest changes, but achievement hunters have to, since they will feel failed or pressured if one game is left "Undiscovered" or "Unbeat" based on their standards, so they can't move on to the next game.

[00petar00]

10 minutes ago, Chesmu said:

The reason is exactly the crisis I mentioned; Why would a new player want to never die and master the game since start? unless they are adopting the Achievement Hunter mindset to "Beat" the game soon and experience it all as fast as possible.

The lack of motive to give in to the experience is probably what causes boredom in face of defeat. If one enjoys discovering new things, which includes new ways to die, to not die and also items and functions, they will never want to run out of things to discover, therefore they will intentionally avoid reading wiki, instead of having to read it.
 

However, what is the point of the game if it doesn't kill your character all the time? if you aquire every important item and structure and be immune to majority of mobs the moment you start, what is there to do then other than decoration building and idle basing? The fun of the game is discovering the new dangers and constant dying of your characters can actually be a matter of humor when playing online with friends. Games don't have to hold your hand, they are not your friends, but mostly challenges and adventures, and both of those are difficult.

So if one plays this game with achievement hunter mindset, wanting to finish the game or "rush" it or don't die, they will have many problem enjoying themselves, and also making nerf suggestions to the game.

I am mostly talking here about how you are just tossed in this world when you start the game that you don't know anything, even the basics that you probably won't be able to figure out without help.

Can you tell me did you learn all the best crockpot recipes on your own? Even if you played the game without using other sources of information like wiki, it would be hard to believe that you figured it alone.

I don't have a problem if the game is difficult, the issue is when i am almost forced to use the wiki unless i want to spend countless hours trying to figure it out, it also wouldn't be a problem if it was fun but i want to see if you found it fun trying to learn crockpot recipes without any help.

Same goes for life giving amulet and its insane importance even with over thousands of hours across DS/DST i can still die and it happens much more since im playing Wanda a lot and i always stay old for damage. I wouldn't be able to be greedy without life giving amulet and i don't really lose world when i die since i always carry one with me and i usually even make meat effigy just to be on the safe side.

While new players won't know what to do and how to get life giving amulet or if it is even any good compared to other revival items.

[Faintly Macabre]

30 minutes ago, Chesmu said:

There is no problem with that, as that Youtube channel and subscribes of it are currently adopting the achievement hunter mindset, which they can drop at any time. It will also be naive to assume all players with said mindset have to subscribe to a particular service to be identified as such, or that they are all limited to this channel alone.

You're missing the point entirely: that it would take a lot more than some hypothetical, random off-and-on achievement-hunting sorts to make any impact, and no group of a sizeable mention has ever, ever rallied for easier trophies.

I repeat: no game has ever been ruined by people getting devs to nerf trophies. Not a one.

[Chesmu]

12 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

You're missing the point entirely: that it would take a lot more than some hypothetical, random off-and-on achievement-hunting sorts to make any impact, and no group of a sizeable mention has ever, ever rallied for easier trophies.

I repeat: no game has ever been ruined by people getting devs to nerf trophies. Not a one.

I wouldn't consider that a ture information since we are standing on living evidence.

[jan Mele]

Just now, Chesmu said:

I wouldn't consider that a ture information since we are standing on living evidence.

21 hours ago, jan Mele said:

How is being able to complete pearl's quest before summer broken

 

[Faintly Macabre]

Just now, Chesmu said:

I wouldn't consider that a ture information since we are standing on living evidence.

If you're accessing this forum from an alternate reality, you have to let us know, boss.

[Chesmu]

28 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I am mostly talking here about how you are just tossed in this world when you start the game that you don't know anything, even the basics that you probably won't be able to figure out without help.

Can you tell me did you learn all the best crockpot recipes on your own? Even if you played the game without using other sources of information like wiki, it would be hard to believe that you figured it alone.

I don't have a problem if the game is difficult, the issue is when i am almost forced to use the wiki unless i want to spend countless hours trying to figure it out, it also wouldn't be a problem if it was fun but i want to see if you found it fun trying to learn crockpot recipes without any help.

Same goes for life giving amulet and its insane importance even with over thousands of hours across DS/DST i can still die and it happens much more since im playing Wanda a lot and i always stay old for damage. I wouldn't be able to be greedy without life giving amulet and i don't really lose world when i die since i always carry one with me and i usually even make meat effigy just to be on the safe side.

While new players won't know what to do and how to get life giving amulet or if it is even any good compared to other revival items.

That is my point, why are you feeling forced to figure those things out to avoid hours of gameplay? is the gameplay something bad or do you not like playing? I'm saying people are running from experiencing an adventure and are too focused on "Beating" the challenge of the game.

You don't even need a crockpot recepie since you can eat raw food and it's everywhere! and it is already spoiled to you what makes what, because when you pick items, the item avatar on crafting menu becomes different color, guiding you that its recepie is ready.

The Life-Giving-Amulet already has all it does in the name when you hover over it, and it has a Red Gem on it! These are found difficult to discover because players don't think like an adventurer, and make the game a routine job.

As always I appriciate a vague non-explaining adventure game that constantly kills your character. It also fits the lore of DS world since characters enter the unknown world non-expecting.

PS: I personally don't like to have figured out everything and one anything in a game, since it expires the fun of it very much, nothing much to do then. Can spend many hours also failing, because games like this are not for people who are in rush; My busy days I also couldn't play DST and found it too time consuming, but if we were to make it playable and enjoyable for those in rush, with long-stay jobs, then it would be a totally different game.

[Faintly Macabre]

11 minutes ago, Chesmu said:

Can spend many hours also failing, because games like this are not for people who are in rush

My dude, who are you to decide who games are and are not for?

[GodIess]

I thought this was a topic about achievements in the game files, but they are not in Steam :/